BS: Driving in the USA

Subject: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Stu
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 10:14 AM

Well, there's a possibility that we might be able to get away to the US sometime this year and we are thinking about hiring a car. However, with a limited budget and no idea of the speed of travel and cost of motels etc I was hoping to pick the brains of stateside catters.

I've been told a 926 mile drive can be done in 14 hours. As this is further than I could travel in a straight line in the UK, how possible is this? I was thinking more like three or four days.

Are roadside motels expensive?

Is the speed limit still 55mph?

How does the train compare?

I know these are simple, but last time we came we never left Manhattan Island.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 10:30 AM

1. Yes, at 70 mph that would take 13.25 hours -- but it would be a great idea to stop to empty the ol' bladder, eat, and so on.

2. We have a good system of autobahns, which we call "Interstates". Assuming, of course, that they aren't being repaired, which they always are.

3. I'd break a 900+ mile drive up into two days, assuming that there was nothing else you wanted to see along the way.

4. Motel prices vary, from about US $35.99 per night up to whatever you want to pay. Figure US $60 for two and that should get you a "Continental Breakfast" in the morning.

5. Speed limits vary; out here in the West it's generally 75 mph downward, depending upon the road. You can usually figure the cops will let you get by with an additional 5 mph.

6. Limited, but doable. They don't go everywhere you want to go, however.

7. Remember, DRIVE ON THE RIGHT!!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:01 AM

Yeah, and lots of people here hang out in the left lane for no good reason and get in the way of people legitimately passing others... and yes, on interstates the speed limit is pretty nationally 65 except around large cities; but if you can, don't do it all on the interstates, it is worth taking a longer time and seeing a lot more.

If you're going to go a thousand miles, I'd take 3 days to a week to do it right. You could do it straight through, sharing driving, and be a lot less entertained.

Whither and whence are you planning to go?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Stu
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:10 AM

Off to the wilds of North Dakota, not sure when but probably in July-Augustish. I know it's hot then, but it's also the field season for digging dinosaurs which we hope to volunteer for.


Thanks for the advice so far. Everything in the states is soooooo big compared to our crowded little Island.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:17 AM

Rapaire may have a better handle on rates in the West and Mid-west, but here in the southeast and mid-Atlantic region, motel rates for places that are "safe" are probably going to be more like $80-$90 per night. There are lower cost chains, but without local knowledge of a particular motel in one of those chains, it is impossible to know if they are safe, clean, travel stops, or places often used for meth labs and drug deals, where muggings and robberies are fairly frequent. (That may not hold true for more sparsely populated areas in the mid-West.)

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:20 AM

While the speed limits may be posted at 70, on many long stretches people cruise at 80 mph for hours at a time. Much more than that and you tend to be interrupted by the Highway Patrol on occasion.

For scale, the major landmass of the US is about 3000 miles wide and about 1400 miles north to south.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:25 AM

Thanks for the advice so far. Everything in the states is soooooo big compared to our crowded little Island.

They say Europe is a place where 1000 miles seems like a long way, and the USA is a place where 1000 years seems like a long time.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:25 AM

My daughter and her boyf took a relatively easy tour, stopping to sightsee and take in music (and visit the JD distillery alas in a dry county) and reported
"21 days
2450 miles
1 Dodge Charger
AND LOTS OF SWAMP!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:27 AM

While the speed limit is rarely any higher than 65 except in a few of the westernmost states (which you won't encounter between the East Coast and the Dakotas), in actual practice, almost everyone goes significantly faster on the interstates out in open country between population centers. I've set the cruise control at 80 for long stretches in the emptier parts of Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas, and been passed with regularity. I would advise you to pace yourself with the traffic; just don't go faster than the fastest other vehicle on the road at the time.

Driving on the opposite side of the road would seem to me to be pretty difficult. During my only visit to the UK and Ireland (for two weeks back in the summer of '04), my brother, who lives there, did all the driving. I would probably have caused an accident or two if I had been at the wheel.

As a passenger (sitting on the side of the front street that felt to me like the ":driver's side"), I knew I'd have been OK while driving straight down the road or street, but regularly felt disoriented at 90-degree turns. Perhaps it would have been less of a problem from the perspecive of sitting behind the wheel on the right ~ who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:29 AM

You won't see much swamp in North Dakota. Lots of other stuff, but no swamp.

You really must visit the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople. The great PDQ Bach scholar is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:44 AM

A few months ago I made a run with a fully loaded rental truck of around 998 miles in just over 12 hours. It was from Ft Worth Texas to a town just north of Atlanta. I only stopped for gas and food breaks. They can often be done at the same location.

It's not uncommon for the police to have "speed traps" - officers with radar guns - just across the borders in some states. Louisina comes to mind. Often they sit just over the rise of a hill so you're tagged before you ever spot them.

What's in North Dakota that you want to visit? Other than digging for bones? Let me know if you need a good lawyer while you're there. Or a vascular surgon. I've got several cousins in ND.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:49 AM

"I would advise you to pace yourself with the traffic; just don't go faster than the fastest other vehicle on the road at the time."

Just don't be the last one in line if the whole line of traffic is going well over the speed limit. A State Trooper told me that the reason the last one in line is the one who gets stopped is that the last one doesn't have the excuse the others do, i.e. he doesn't have to travel with the pack.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 12:28 PM

Driving on the other side did not take me long to get used to in Ireland - the narrow roads did.

There are only two things you need to know about driving in the US:

Anyone going slower than you is an idiot.
Anyone going faster than you is an asshole.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 12:35 PM

If you're driving on an interstate highway, if you look out for a rest stop just after you enter the state where you have planned a hotel stay, you can find coupon books with coupons in them that can save you a lot of money off your hotel stay. You can frequently find coupons for very nice hotels in the coupon books. After you get your book, find a hotel that looks or sounds nice to you in the place where you want to spend the night, then call the hotel and ask them if they have any rooms available at the coupon rate. JtS stays in a lot of hotels every year, and he saves a bundle of money this way.

Sometimes these books can also be found at gas stations (petrol stations) that are close to state lines as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 12:38 PM

Forgot to mention - the coupon books are usually found in little dispensing boxes out in front of the store (they look a bit like the boxes that newspapers are dispensed out of).

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: fretless
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:29 PM

Cars are straightforward and 900 mile drives can be boring. Dinosaur digs are more unusual. Do you have anything specific in mind? Earthwatch or some similar organization, perhaps. Just showing up and saying "Hi, I'm here to volunteer" often doesn't work. And don't forget to bring your wallet -- most field projects that offer spaces to volunteers ask them to pay for room/board at least, and they usually charge enough so that the fees subsidize the project.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:44 PM

If you want to see the best dinosaur museum in the region, drive farther west from North Dakota to the Museum of the Rockies on the Montana State University campus in Bozeman, Montana.

Museum of the Rockies

The paleontologist there, Jack Horner, "Horner served as the technical advisor for all of the Jurassic Park films, and even served as partial inspiration for one of the lead characters, Dr. Alan Grant."
Bio
The first DNA extracted from dinosaur fossil came from research at the Museum of the Rockies.
"In 2003 Horner discovered a fossilized tyrannosaur leg bone from which paleontologist Mary Higby Schweitzer was able to retrieve proteins in 2007."

Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:50 PM

IF you have two drivers, and stay mostly on the interstate highways, 900+ miles 'can' be 1½ days. Making it full days can still keep it to one overnight stay in a motel.

There are several quite tolerable motel chains which are under $60 per night...(obviously, fewer bargains near tourist attractions). You can find websites with locations of places like Motel 6, and you can stop at a couple of the cheaper ones early in the trip and get maps & brochures listing all their locations....then you can call ahead if you have clear idea of where you want to stop. I'd guess Ohio might be a likely midpoint for a trip from NYC to N.Dakota.

So much depends on whether you want to do any sightseeing, your...ummm... age and stamina, and weather conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 02:05 PM

And bear in mind that an Automatic (Nearly ALL Hire cars ARE) means that all you have to do is steer ! I initially only had an occasional problem with Left turns ! Wanted to stay on the Left !!
And the Interstate CAN be very boring ! I had a LOVELY relaxed run from Boston to South Portland up Route 1 and 1A in '05 !

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM

Driving long stretches of prairie on your way and in NDak (where I was born!) be sure to keep your car gassed up (petrolled) and always carry water with you for drinking, but we always carried it for the car, too, in case it overheated, but a rental car should be fine.

If you came to Western Colorado, you could ride the train like Micca did and see tons of beautiful scenery plus go over the Continental Divide in the Rockies. We've lots of dinosaur digs and a small, but impressive museum, plus just up the road and over a smallish mtn, there is a large in situ museum. That particular mtn. pass is scary, the semis (BIG lorries) have to go at a literal crawl and there are a lot of switchbacks, so I would NOT recommend it to anyone who isn't used to driving on two-lane mtn. pass roads.

If you are interested, let me know, and I'll dig (no pun intended) up some more info for you. FWIW, from what my family tells me, you've picked the best and only time to go to NDak....weather is pretty harsh almost anytime, but at least you won't have snow.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:10 PM

I found that driving on the other side of the road gave me a fierce headache for the first day or two.

It also took a while to stop reaching for the gearshift with my right hand -- and opening the driver's door isntead.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:15 PM

I'm still dumbfounded by the juxtaposition of the word 'hot' with 'North Dakota'.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM

In the summer, the Dakotas and eastern Montana get very hot. It is an arid climate, even though we get snow in the winter.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:30 PM

The highest temperature recorded in North Dakota is 121°, Fahrenheit. This record high was recorded on July 6, 1936 at Steele.

The lowest temperature in North Dakota, -60°, was recorded on February 15, 1936 at Parshall.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:36 PM

If you know about where you will be stopping for the night, scope out the hotels in the area on Tripadvisor and get an idea of where you might want to stay. That should enable you to avoid the real disasters, and find a satisfactory hotel for a good price. Outside of the big cities you can usually find very reasonably priced hotels that are clean and safe, which is all you probably need.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:47 PM

Koala Inn, Budget Inn, or motels with a breakfast lobby are quite affordable. Motel 6 kinda sucks but they will have vacancies.

kat is right, Colorado is nice if you can do it. From flat Denver the mountains look as though they go straight up with a few rolling hills in front.
(avoid Rocky Flats plutonium processing plant and town at all costs)

If you get into the Bad Lands up north you are in prime dinosaur fossil territory where glacial deposits run deep from the epic floods after ice ages.




Poppa Gattor, One way to get used to driving on the other side is to simply drive in reverse everywhere you go. I suggest a Porsche since you can do up to 50 in reverse !

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:51 PM

I've driven a club van along part of the Skyline Drive on one occasion.I found transferring to driving on the right easy, as the steering wheel was on the correct side - driving a UK car in Europe would be much worse.

The worst bit was getting away from the hire pick up at the airport (Boston)on another occasion, because you're jet lagged, in an unfamiliar town / city and the car doesn't say "Be gentle - I'm a foreigner" on the bumper.

The automatic helps a lot as there's less to think about. In the countryside there's far less cars per mile than UK, so traffic density isn't a problem outside the cities.

If you're handy with maps you shouldn't have a problem. I bought an AAA book which I've still got, but don't expect some locals to be able to help you with maps, or give coherent directions (mind you that's probably true here too!)

Cloverleaf junctions can be tricky to work out which slip road you need, as it's all "backwards".

I wish UK cars had variable speed windscreen wipers - they were a revelation.

I had great fun, and I'd like to do it again - drive right across, say, or up and down the Great Divide.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:16 PM

Bill D.,

I've been a Motel 6 fan for years of traveling on the cheap. However, in the past few years have had a few scares and/or pulled up to one on a trip that I chose from the website, without local knowledge, that really did not feel very safe, or where I had to ward off drug offers. At one, a crystal meth lab was busted two doors down one night, shortly after I checked in. At another, some one was threatened and robbed at gunpoint when they responded to a knock on their door. I won't stay in a Motel 6, Super 8, or Days Inn now unless I have checked out the location in advance. Any of this could, of course, happen at any hotel or motel, but is more likely to occur at the less expensive chains.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:23 PM

I agree with Janie, that's why I use TripAdvisor, or Yahoo. The User Reviews are very helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:26 PM

Microtel is a great chain, but they are usually only found in towns of a certain size and cities. Still, if it's possible to plan to stay somewhere with a Microtel, they're almost always great hotels. The rooms are smaller than a lot of other hotels, which is what keeps the prices low, but they're almost always clean, safe, and well run.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 04:41 PM

I think you will be fine in the countryside...but getting from the airport when you are not familiar with the driving here could be very dangerous...I probably would fly into CHicago and take the train and maybe rent a car in North Dakota where there is probably not a huge amount of traffic...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 05:51 PM

The greater Chicago area is Hell.

I-80 and I-90 merge through there, because I-90 has to veer south to get around the lakes. Too many vehicles. Hell.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:02 PM

You can easily do 900 mile days, as long as (1) you don't really mind driving from can't see to can't see, (2) are out of the effete east to someplace where speed limits are something reasonable and (3) are in too much of a hurry to enjoy the trip. On the other hand, even North Dakota has airports with car hire places. There is no reason to fly into Chicago and drive to Fargo.

IF you insist on driving, post your proposed itinerary here. We are spread out enough that Motel Mudcat may be available to you most nights. I have space in Albuquerque for muddy travelers.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:13 PM

CarolC's tip about the motel-coupon books at state "Welcome Centers" is a good one. Even if you don't use a coupon (if you wind up staying at a place that isn't in the book), you'll learn all about room rates, with and without dicounts, in different locations. There is a BIG difference between the cost of staying in or near a larger city versus a location out in the countryside ~ even among members of the same hotel/motel chain.

As several folks hae mentioned, the most difficult driving is going to be when you first arrive and you have to exit the airport area through highly congested big-city traffic. Take an extra moment or two to collect yourself, do whatever you can to counteract the effects of jet-lag, hold on tight, and keep telling yourself that it's only going to get easier!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:17 PM

It is very expensive to fly in to a small town airport like Fargo. I know, because every airport in Montana is considered a small town, so it costs a lot to fly in or out of here.

Minneapolis, Minnesota (MN) is a hub for Northwest Airlines, now owned by DELTA airlines. You can fly from London to Minneapolis much cheaper than trying to fly in to Fargo.

I suggest you fly to Minneapolis, rent a car, and drive to N.Dakota.



Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:30 PM

I dunno'......There have been problems in North Dakota and you need to be careful as a foreigner in the state. Here's a featured news story that ran just last week:

North Dakota Found To Be Harboring Nuclear Missiles

   
BISMARCK, ND—The stage was set for another international showdown Monday, when chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix confirmed that the remote, isolationist state of North Dakota is in possession of a large stockpile of nuclear missiles.

"Satellite photos confirm that the North Dakotans have been quietly harboring an extensive nuclear-weapons program," said Blix, presenting his findings in a speech to the U.N. Security Council. "Alarmingly, this barely developed hinterland possesses the world's most technologically advanced weapons of mass destruction, capable of reaching targets all over the world."
After initially offering no comment on the report, North Dakota officials admitted to having a stockpile of 1,710 warheads at two military sites and confirmed that the state has been home to an active nuclear-weapons-development program for decades.
Blix called the revelation a "terrifying prospect for the world at large."
Within hours of the announcement, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged North Dakota to abandon its program.
"This is clearly an excessive number of weapons for a place like North Dakota to possess," Annan said. "In this post-Cold War environment, we should be moving away from nuclear proliferation among developing states."

Kofi Annan addresses the U.N. Security Council regarding the North Dakota situation.
European leaders also spoke out in opposition to North Dakota's weapons program.
"North Dakota, still in its cultural infancy, cannot be trusted to responsibly handle weapons of mass destruction," French President Jacques Chirac said. "We are talking about a place that doesn't even have a Thai restaurant or movie theater that shows foreign films, but still they have the resources to build thousands of warheads. Do not believe their claims of being 'The Peace Garden State.'"
According to Chirac, North Dakota's development of nuclear arms "represents a grave threat to peaceful states the world over, none more so than its longtime neighbor and rival across the 45th Parallel, South Dakota."
"The South Dakotans, while a simple people themselves, are friendly, hospitable, and far more in touch with the outside world," Chirac said. "Many people, myself included, have passed through and seen the Badlands and Mount Rushmore. North Dakota, on the other hand, is a bleak, racially homogeneous state that few people ever enter or exit."
After a joint meeting of the French and German cabinets, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said the two nations "agree that this situation must be rectified" and implored North Dakota to cease its uranium-enrichment program immediately.
"We have opened the door to talks," Schroeder said. "But, unfortunately, North Dakota seems unwilling to engage with the world community at this time."
According to Blix, North Dakota is home to 500 Minuteman III ICBMs and 50 Peacekeeper missiles, giving it one of the heaviest concentrations of the weapons on earth. The biggest discovery made by U.N. inspectors, Blix said, was a missile field at Minot Air Force Base, where they found an "almost unbelievable" stockpile of warheads.
The rogue state was also found to possess enormous stockpiles of fissile material.
"North Dakota could have as much as 75 metric tons of weapons-grade uranium and 8 metric tons of weapons-grade plutonium," Blix said. "Just 55 pounds of uranium are needed to construct a simple nuclear weapon. Do the math—the prospects are terrifying."
The man at the center of the controversy is North Dakota's leader, Gov. John Hoeven. Having risen to power in 2000 after amassing tremendous wealth in the private sector, Hoeven lives a life of comfort and excess inside the heavily patrolled North Dakota governor's mansion, a lavish dwelling paid for entirely by the state, while many of his people engage in subsistence farming.
Some suspect that Hoeven is using the nuclear program as a bargaining chip to gain badly needed economic benefits for his state. Hardly at the forefront of technology in other aspects, North Dakota has a largely rural population and a child-poverty rate of 14 percent—a fact critics have been quick to point out.
"North Dakotans live a horrible life of isolation and deprivation, struggling to grow crops in a hostile, sub-zero climate while their indifferent government routinely prioritizes bolstering the state's military might," BBC World correspondent Caroline Eagan said. "There are people starving there, and yet high-tech weapons laboratories and military bases abound. It's deplorable."
Added Eagan: "And, no big surprise, the U.S. played a major role in arming this place. I hear most of the missiles are American-made."
Many U.S. citizens have expressed fear, some realizing for the first time that North Dakota has thousands of weapons capable of reaching any major American city within minutes.
"It is absolutely frightening that there are all these weapons of mass destruction practically in my backyard," said Karen Stiles of Moorhead, MN. "Do we really know enough about these people who have their finger on the button that could kill millions?"
Added Stiles: "How did our elected officials let this happen?"


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:34 PM

On the other hand, this is something of a "must see"!!!

New Strip Mall Of America Stretches Over 1/6th Of North America

   
FARGO, ND—Representatives from the North Dakota Department of Commerce attended a ribbon-cutting ceremony Saturday for the new Strip Mall Of America, the state's largest shopping center to date.

A tiny section of the mall, which stretches from Eldridge to the outskirts of Fargo.
"This new mall brings together all the low- to mid-range franchise stores that America loves," Strip Mall Of America spokesman Henry Sloan said. "It's the largest strip mall in the country—in fact, it's the largest in the world. It's your one 90-linear-mile stop for vitamins, housewares, Christian books, picture frames, and discount eyeglasses."
The dull-gray cinderblock and tinted-glass structure stretches along Interstate 94 from Eldridge to a point seven miles west of Fargo. Occupying six different zip codes, it is capable of hosting more than 4,700 stores and boasts 240,000 parking spaces.
While the mall's focus is on smaller chain stores, it does feature three anchor stores: a Marshalls, a Gymboree, and an Aldi grocery store, located in Jamestown, Valley City, and Oriska, respectively.
"There's something for everyone here," Sloan said. "If you're looking for gift wrap and festive decorations, visit one of our eight Party City stores. Arts-and-crafts buffs can choose between Michael's and Ben Franklin, not to mention Jo-Ann Fabrics. I don't want to jump the gun, but we're probably going to have a Radio Shack, too."
According to Sloan, only 40 percent of the retail space is currently occupied, and a full 3 percent of the storefronts house liquidation stores and cellular-phone outlets.
"We've got 18 Big Lots, 13 Dollars General, 11 Dollar Trees, and three Family Dollars," Sloan said. "While there are still a few more 'For Rent' signs than we'd like to see, we're confident that the unclaimed spaces will fill up soon."
Sloan added: "After all, we're in a great location, with easy access from the interstate via exits 251 through 338. Additionally, we are an excellent facility, featuring a well-maintained sidewalk and several benches in front of the Lechter's in Tower City. We're talking about getting a few potted trees."
The stores in the mall will not be limited to retail outlets. Sloan said the mall will "take visitors on a culinary tour of the nation's finer fast-food eateries and theme restaurants."
"Who wouldn't want to come and get a taste of North Dakota?" Sloan asked. "After a long day of shopping, you can stop at the Shakey's Pizza all-you-can-eat buffet and recharge your batteries. Or, if you just want to satisfy your sweet tooth, stop in at the Auntie Anne's or one of our 48 TCBY outlets."
One business unlikely to rent a spot in the mall is TGIFridays, which is currently building 18 restaurants at points just across the four-lane interstate.
While the mall caters first and foremost to residents of North Dakota, mall officials said they hope it will also draw tourists from all over the country, much like the popular Mall Of America in Minnesota.
"Why not make a vacation of it?" Sloan asked. "Bring the entire family and spend the weekend at one of the region's many wonderful Super8 motels. South Dakota has stolen our thunder in the past, but if you stack up their Wall Drugs and Corn Palaces against our Funcos and Pier One Imports, I think it's obvious who's the best Dakota."
Added Sloan: "It's us."
Sloan noted one additional feature of the mall.
"If you have car trouble while you're taking advantage of the variety of shops, you're in luck," he said. "As long as you're shopping at the Strip Mall Of America, you're never more than 34 miles from a Pep Boys Auto Repair Center. That's a guarantee.
"And, while you're waiting for the mechanic to finish, you can pop next door to browse at one of the Waldenbooks or have a coffee at a Gloria Jean's," Sloan added.
The Department of Commerce estimates the mall will provide approximately 30,000 jobs in the coming year. While many North Dakotans said they are excited about the employment opportunities, some have voiced concern over the 90-mile barricade separating the regions to the north and south of the mall.
"True, it is unfortunate that people who need to travel from, say, Hastings to Valley City will now have to factor in an extra two hours for their commute," Sloan said. "On the plus side, drivers can break up their trips by stopping in at the Petco to get a great deal on a 20-pound bag of cat food—or swinging by the Kaybee Toys to pick up a present for the little ones!"


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:34 PM

Travelocity and Expedia are very good, perhaps the best for rates and bookings, but it doesn't cost anything to check the others as well.

You are going at the height of tourist season, and even the "cheap" places will be expensive, meaning that it will probably be hard to find stuff in the $100 per night range. I pulled up rates for Deadwood, SD area on a site called Cheapostay, and the best rate I could find was $65 for July and August, which was at a place called Badlands Budget Hotel, it had a 1 Star rating, on a scale where The Motel 6 received 4 Stars--that was $86 per night, which was discounted from the regular rate of $150. Things went up fast from there--

A lot of the places increased their rates from the last week in July to the First week in August--some more than doubled--which tells you that you'd better make reservations, because chances are, you'll have trouble finding anything on the day you get there.

Word of warning!! Before you make reservations, either through an online service or with the hotel reservation service, check the cancellation policies and other fees! Many chains now charge for a night if you cancel after a cutoff date, and some places even charge a non-refundable booking fee in addition to the nightly rate.

If you can travel after Labor Day ( Monday Sept 6--the official end of Summer), things will get much less expensive, but the western weather can get suddenly colder then, too.

If you like camping, and have a pop up tent and sleeping bags, you can save a lot, and you'll meet a lot more people than if you stay in hotels. You'll probably need to make reservations a campgrounds, too, though. You could rent a camper, too(which might come in handy on a Dinosaur dig), but I am a simple man, and a backpack and a hotel room is all I need.

The real questions are about time and cost--the truth is that if you are going any long distance in the US, your best deal is to fly, and, if you need a car at your destination (which you usually do) to rent it. Long distance rail travel can be a lot of fun, but it isn't cheaper than flying, especially when you figure in meals.

As to how long it takes to drive 926 miles, it is completely dependent on where you start and finish--if you're driving on a rural interstate, particularly in the west, and have a mind to do it, you can drive 80 or 90 mph, but if you're driving in any of the vast urban nightmares that we don't even have names for (Washington to Boston Corridor is as close to a name as you'll find) you can average 35mph on the interstates, if you're lucky--

There are other reasons to drive, though, like wanting to see the scenery--the comment about 1000 years being a long time is way off the mark in places like the Grand Canyon, where you can see two billion years of history--at least on a clear day.

I better go--this is a really long post for me--

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:36 PM

Hmmm, Janie... we stayed at several Days Inn & EconoLodge 3 years ago, going to St. Louis & back, and had no problems. I agree it is a good idea to be aware of what general area it is in...especially near large cities.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:39 PM

Actually, as pointed out above, it is cheaper to fly into a major city, rent a car, and drive the rest of the way--

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:41 PM

If your primary destination is North Dakota, definitely fly closer (somewhere in the midwest, like Chicago or Minneapolis, or even out to Denver) and drive less: save driving time, car rental, motel, and gas costs. Heck, check flights to Winnipeg (Manitoba, Canada)!

Don't rent a car on the east coast to get to North Dakota unless you want to see what's in between. Given that, there are things in between to see, but not much dinosaur-related. :-)

Regarding rail travel, if you have the money for a sleeper, that is a possibility, and if you're committed to flying to the east coast and don't care about stopping on the way, it may be a good choice. A hassle saver, but not necessarily a money-saver. Check this thread from last year.

~ Becky in Long Beach
(having crossed the continent many times and ways)

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:48 PM

JtS and I have not found it difficult to find hotels in the summer that are the same rate as they are the rest of the year. It all depends on what is near the hotel, and when they tend to have more guests.

Some times we've had to pay really high prices when there's a big event in the area where the hotel is located. But planning ahead can help to prevent that from being a problem. If you find a hotel that you think looks promising, call ahead and ask if there are any big events in town on the day you plan to be there.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 07:01 PM

There was a message from Charmion above that really got me worried.

Charmion, you're Canadian! Please do not drive on the "other" side of the road when you come to the United States!

---

Many years ago (1970), I drove from Milwaukee to Los Angeles in 2-1/4 days - I was on my way to see my fiancee after not seeing her for a summer. Nowadays, I think driving a hundred miles on a freeway is a horrible waste of time. If at all possible, I take the "scenic route" wherever I can; and I stay on two-lane roads through rural areas and old parts of towns. I never bypass the Main Street of a small town, and I get out and walk in the downtown districts of large cities. I may spend no more than fifteen minutes seeing a small town, but I try at least to get a flavor of the best part of the town. My job as a federal investigator required a lot of driving, and I suppose my tourist instincts made me less than ultimately efficient; but it made the job less stressful and a lot more enjoyable - and I held that job for 25 years. Knowing a little bit about the character of every town in California made me a very good investigator, and I could usually count on getting an annual bonus of $1,000 over my regular salary.

I can't imagine why somebody would want to come to the United States and drive 900 miles in a day on the freeway. I guess I should remember the exhilaration of my 1970 trip - covering so much distance in so little time (and finding good lovin' at the end of the road).

Have a good trip, Sugarfoot Jack...and may you also find good lovin' at the end of the road.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 07:56 PM

Janie, we found the Motel 6 in a couple of towns in WY to be full of druggies, all-nighters, etc. Right after we packed our stuff into the room, we turned right back and left.

I think Alice has given the best suggestion: fly to Minneapolis, get a car and drive to ND. We've driven from WY to MA and from CT to WY and that bit around Chicago is horrendous.

The only problem with backroads, etc., Joe, is if you don't know the area, you can get lost pretty easily. It sure can be fun and pretty, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:45 PM

When you are NOT used to the road signs , it IS easy to miss a turning , even on Route 1 I managed to get mislaid a couple of times
but was always pointed the right way by the first person I asked !
Navigating HAS to be easier with two of you though .

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: kendall
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:47 PM

I haven't read this whole thread, too dopey tonight, but I will say, travel in the USA is quicker and cheaper than in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:52 PM

You're right about getting lost on back roads, Kat. It's really tough if you don't have good maps - and good maps are getting harder and harder to find. Even the American Automobile Association is getting be be a cheapskate when it comes to maps - and the maps are why I joined AAA in the first place.

GPS doesn't make it, because you need to see the Big Picture if you're traveling back roads. I did have some trouble travelling Pennsylvania and Connecticut last fall - but I did it anyhow, and had a wonderful time. Got lost a few times, but so what? I always travel back roads, so I've developed a knack.

Speaking of GPS, Kendall and Jacqui had GPS when they came to visit a couple of years ago, here in the Sierra Nevada Foothills. THAT was very entertaining. Reminds me of the time when I went to a gathering in Downeast Maine, and two people attending were lobstermen who were five miles away from home - they had to pull off the road and call for directions, while I got there from California without assistance....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:59 PM

The train is a fine way to get from Minneapolis/St Paul to North Dakota. The train you want to take is called The Empire Builder. There is only one train per day going each way. It leaves St. Paul late at night and arrives in North Dakota in the morning. Driving that route would be boring anyway. If you like scenery, I'd recommend you continue your trip westward to Seattle or Portland.

Where exactly in ND would you be going?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:16 PM

North Dakota is nice because like so many other states out that way (Kansas,SD,Nebraska,Iowa, etc) you can see the curvature of the earth from ground level!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:27 PM

Delorme publishes a fine series of atlases, one volume per state. I own one for Minnesota and one for Wisconsin. Great for exploring back roads in rural areas—I believe they cover every drivable road. Not enough detail for big cities, though. Too expensive if you're merely passing through, but worth it if you're going to be spending an extended time in one state.

Wherever you can get an Internet connection, there's always Google Maps (or Bing, or Mapquest, but I'm most familiar with Google).

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:30 PM

And if you bend over REAL deep you can see chickens walking around against the skyline five miles away. :)

Eb/also born in North Dakota

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:34 PM

LOL at Ebbie

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:40 PM

Sure, Joe, but in New England, every road leads to somewhere, so you're never truly lost like you can be out west.*bg*

LOL...I didn't live there long enough to try that, Ebbie.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:32 PM

Kat, I don't know about New England, but I lived in Pennsylvania for a long while, and it is very easy to get lost there. All the Northbound roads go West, all the Southbound roads go East, and to get anywhere, you have to go somewhere else and come back.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 11:43 PM

That's a popular thing in Ohio and Indiana as well. Rt.33 distinctly runs north south with just some drift but its an east/west route.

I dunno' why that is but there are a couple of others here plus the one in Indiana that always pissed me off.....came out around Corydon........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Janie
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:05 AM

Carol has a good suggestion regarding the coupon books found at Welcome Centers/rest stops on the Interstate highways, Maryrrf' suggestion that you look at reviews regarding lower priced chain motels and hotels is a good one. The lower priced chains to consider are Motel 6, Econolodge, Super 8, Days Inn, Scottish Inn. Then Microtel, Red Roof, Cricket and Knights Inn. Then Holiday Inn Express and Comfort Inn. If doing research beforehand, also consider Best Western, and consult websites for local municipalities and chambers of commerce for independent motels and hotels that might suit just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 12:49 AM

Most times, I've been amazed at the results I've had with the coupon books. I usually ask for the AAA or AARP rate (American Automobile Association or American Association of Retired People), and rarely get asked for a card. The coupons get you prices that are sometimes a third less than the AARP/AAA rate. Sometimes, the coupons have fine print that will throw you off. Last October, I tried using a coupon at Lancaster, Pennsylvania, that offered a terrific rate for a room with two king-size beds. Trouble is, that they only had rooms left with one king or two queens - and they were far more expensive.
I did NOT find a good lodging deal anywhere in Lancaster, and this was midweek on a rainy night, hardly primetime. There were Hasidic Jews everywhere, so maybe there was a convention and it drove the rates up.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:02 AM

Yeah, that's why it pays to call ahead and ask them if there are any rooms available at the coupon rate before committing to a particular hotel.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:37 AM

Joe-Lancaster has a lot of business travelers, particularly contract workers, in addition to being a year round tourist destination, so not a lot of lodging deals. As to the Hassidim, maybe they went out to look at the Amish--Yiddish and Pennsylvania Dutch are closely related.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Stu
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:35 AM

Wow - Thanks everyone.

Quite a lot to digest here but we'll take it all into account whilst planning; you've certainly got me thinking. If we manage the trip this year we will certainly consider flying closer to ND and driving a bit of the way. In truth, we wanted to see the country a bit which is why driving seemed such an attractive option but I think we might avoid Chicago in the car at least. It really does depend on how much time we have.

I'm not too worried about driving on the 'wrong'[ side of the road ;-) My mum lived in France for five years and although I didn't drive I can't say I'm too worried. My wife and I had an old german VW camper that was left-hand drive and we got around fine in it, just make sure you come square-on into turns.

Thank you for all the offers of help too - much appreciated folks!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:44 AM

Texas is different; the land is so flat, if you have good eyesight,and the air is clear, you can see the back of your own head.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:29 AM

Don't get too close to Canada - Charmion is licensed to drive there...on whichever side of the road.

Sorry, Charmion...

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:31 AM

You're up early, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 06:25 AM

Hassidic jews in gathering in large numbers in Amish country?   LMAO.....Geeziz Joe......There must be about a dozen jokes there.......LMAO..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 08:37 AM

In US it's perfectly legal to overtake on the inside on motorways (please correct me if I'm wrong) which can catch a UK driver by surprise. Driving a multi-lane highway in the dark to first night hotel when you are knackered from the flight can be quite an experience!

nick

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 09:20 AM

A shipmate from Texas once described Texas as, "Acres and acres of nothing but acres and acres." He was not amused when I commented that a lot of nothing is still nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Maryrrf
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 10:12 AM

I know some people don't like them, but I think I'd arrange to have a GPS device in addition to good maps.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:02 AM

Here's an option.
Fly into Chicago, because you might be able to get a nonstop from Europe. O'Hare is out at the edge of the city. If you wanted to rent a car there, you have minimal traffic hassle picking up the freeway and heading west across Iowa and on to North Dakota.

OR, when you land, take the subway/elevated from O'hare downtown. Stay the night near downtown, and see the Museum of Science and Industry, which has awesome dinosaur stuff. Then go back out to the airport and pick up the rental car.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM

And about how hot it may get in North Dakota, here's a couple stats. While I'm sure record heat happens and one should be ready for a heat wave, 'warm' sounds more like it.

"July is the warmest month with mean temperatures ranging from 67 degrees in the northeast to 73 degrees in the south. Daily high temperatures in the low 80s are common central and south."

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:20 PM

"... we wanted to see the country a bit which is why driving seemed such an attractive option "

If you stay on the interstate, "seeing the country" is rather a diluted experience. (The further west you go, the more you can see as you drive.)

If you drive on the more 'interesting' secondary roads, you go much slower, and need to decide about how much time you are allowing.

Most of the decent motels ARE near the exits on the interstate.

I 2nd the idea of flying closer to your destination.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Bert
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:37 PM

...Rt.33 distinctly runs north south with just some drift but its an east/west route...

Well, ya need to come to the Front Range. I25 runs North/South and there is no doubt about it. You can start in Montana at Glacier National park and head South and come and see us in Colorado Springs where you can see Pikes Peak as well.

It covers pretty much the same route as the Goodnight Loving trail but a little closer to the mountains.

Then you can pop over the Divide and visit Katlaughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 01:46 PM

redhorse, not only is it allowed to overtake on the inside, but that is where people are supposed to overtake here. In some places it's actually illegal to overtake on the outside. In the US, the rule usually is that you pass on the left. Slower traffic is supposed to keep to the right. That translates to overtaking on the inside since we're obviously driving on the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 04:25 PM

You will need to get used to with Road Signs in the United States. The US has never adopted the European standard. The good news is, our signs mostly use words, and not so many abstract symbols as in the UK or Europe.

For example, here is an American speed-limit sign compared to a British/European speed-limit sign.

(This is really more of a problem for Americans traveling in Europe or the UK than vice versa.)

For navigation, you need to get used to thinking in terms of north/south/east/west. American highways, even if they zigzag or run on a diagonal, are arbitrarily designated as either north-south highways or east-west highways. When you come to an intersection and you want to turn onto a "north-south" highway, you need to know in advance whether you want to go "north" or "south." There probably won't be any signs telling you whether the town you want is left or right.

Typical American highway sign vs. Typical British highway sign.

Of course Americans in the UK have the opposite problem. I would arrive at a roundabout knowing I wanted to go north, but which way is north? The sign doesn't tell me. Also, the town I wanted to go to is "none of the above." What the hell do I do now?

I suppose Brits tend to navigate by knowing what town they want to go to, and also what other towns lie along the route or beyond it, never mind whether they're headed north, south, east or west.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM

By the way, in the US, overtaking is called 'passing', and that's what you'll see on signs from time to time telling you not to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 07:10 PM

An iPhone lets you see the whole map from nation down to local sidewalks with the sweep of a finger, and will get your present location pinpointed on it with a few seconds lag.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 07:33 PM

People in the US normally treat each lane as a discrete entity, and passing on the right/inside lane is as acceptable as in the left/outside lane or the center/centre lane. Exceptions do exist, such as in Texas where the freeways are posted "Left lane for passing only". Slower drivers do not keep to the right/inside (the rat bastards).

Beware of signs that say "right lane exit only". This means that the right lane goes on to the off-ramp, and there is no option to stay on the main road without a last-moment lane change. This tends to be difficult if there is a large truck to your immediate left.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 08:04 PM

regarding iPhones... you will find that you won't be able to get a signal for an iPhone to work in most of Montana and North Dakota, no matter what AT&T's advertising claims. Verizon is the most reliable signal in this part of the country for a cell phone.


Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 08:50 PM

It doesn't pay to assume that it's ok to pass on the right, though, artbrooks. I've been pulled over for doing it in places where I was unaware of the law against it. But it does seem to be the case, that where there are either rules or norms about only passing on one side or the other, in the US it is on the left and not the right. From what redhorse said, it sounds like it's the opposite in the UK. This is good for people coming here to know, since according to what he said, not being aware of this can be very dangerous.

It's almost always true that on country roads, especially in hilly or mountainous areas, slower moving vehicles are either expected or required to stay to the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 09:15 PM

There was a law in California (may still be in force) which stated that when five or more vehicles were stuck behind you (maybe pulling a trailer/camper) you HAD to pull over at the first available opportunity when it was safe to do so and allow them to pass. That should be enforced everywhere, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 11:49 PM

Let's see...multi-lane road, person in the left lane driving below the speed limit, person in the right lane passes...there would be no other reason to pass. I have some trouble imagining that the passer would be pulled over, but I suppose it's possible. Not at all relevant to the topic, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:15 AM

I have been pulled over for precisely that, artbrooks. In Oklahoma, for instance. And it is relevant. redhorse (presumably from the UK) said, "In US it's perfectly legal to overtake on the inside on motorways (please correct me if I'm wrong) which can catch a UK driver by surprise."

Clearly it's dangerous for people to not know which side it is customary for people to pass on. If it is customary for people in the UK to pass on the outside, operating on that assumption in a country where the opposite is true could create dangerous situations for them. Why you would discourage anyone from informing them of this difference in the way things are done, and thereby possibly saving them some trouble, is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: MarkS
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:25 AM

Also, be prepared to pay a toll on many major roads and bridges. Just pull into the booth and get a ticket when you get on the road, and give the ticket and your money to the tolltaker on the other end. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and many others charge for use of many of the major roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:26 AM

From this Wikipedia page, though, it looks like in UK usage, "inside" would be what I am referring to as the outside. When I say inside, I'm talking about the lane that is closest to the median, but it looks like in the UK the inside might the the lane furthest from the median.

If that's the case, redhorse, passing on the inside (using UK terminology) is sometimes legal and sometimes not, but passing in the lane closest to the median, or at least not in the far right lane, is probably the safest bet.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:15 AM

Beware of taxis in Munich, after a weekend a couple of years ago for the Christmas market, we were driven at top speeds of 130 miles per hour to the airport!

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:43 AM

Well if it gives you a bit of reassurance - we did a house swap in Portland Oregon including vehicles. I think we had less problems than they did!

I have also driven in Washington DC and Pennsylvania area and Canada. I found it OK. The thing that confused me (and confuses some Americans in my experience) is filtering right against a red stop light. That was unusual and it was only when I had a pile of cars behind me and a bloke waving at me I realised.

Would any stateside catters care to comment?

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 07:26 AM

This may not be consistent in the US. I have always heard the lane closest to the curb called the inside lane.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 08:26 AM

Sorry: I used "inside" and "outside" to try and avoid confusion! In UK we also tend to refer to the slow lane as the inside lane, even though technically it's on the outside of the highway.

On UK motorways, unless you are in solid nose-to-tail traffic it is illegal to pass on the left/kerb/passenger side. It is only permitted to pass on the right/median/driver side. (UK drivers sit on the right of the car). So a UK driver on a relatively uncrowded motorway does not expect someone to come past rapidly on the passenger side.


I also found Charmion's experience interesting: "It also took a while to stop reaching for the gearshift with my right hand -- and opening the driver's door instead." I had a similar experience the first time I drove a LHD car. My left hand, looking for the gear lever, found the handbrake (oddly placed between driver's door and driver's seat on the NSU Prinz) and pulled it on much to the following driver's (and my) surprise

nick

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 08:56 AM

Until this thread, I don't think I ever heard anyone use the term "inside lane" or "outside lane." When I read it, I figured "inside" must mean "toward the center of the highway." That's logical, isn't it? But it sure made the discussion confusing. It's a good thing I stayed out of it.

By the way, in Britain, I don't think they use the word "lane" at all (as in traffic lane); they call it a "carriageway."

If a car ahead of you is stopped, and he has his left-turn signal on, and he is apparently waiting for a break in oncoming traffic so he can turn left, it seems harmless to pass him on the right, doesn't it? (This is in the US.) I'm sure I've done this many times. I'd probably slow down a lot first. That kind of thing is never prohibited, is it?

I should point out, in the US, driving is regulated by the states, not the federal government, so it's possible to find some regional differences.

I don't think I've ever encountered a toll road west of the Chicago area. There might be a few toll bridges, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: fretless
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:01 AM

Having sat this one out for a few days and seeing various comments about how boring driving on US Interstates can be, I was reminded of the book Blue Highways by William Least Heat Moon. The title comes from the non-major roads, traditionally rendered in blue on highway maps, and the book recounts Moon's non-highway drive across the U.S., where he made deliberate efforts to access the country's various regional communities. If you're planning a driving excursion to the U.S., it might be an interesting pre-visit read.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM

I think it is a lot easier for someone in the UK to adapt to driving in the US, than the other way around. Outside of the big urban areas there is less congestion and there just seems to be more room to maneuver, park, etc. in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:13 AM

And the only toll road in Ohio is the Turnpike and no one in their right mind uses it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Amos
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:17 AM

And the only toll road in Ohio is the Turnpike and no one in their right mind uses it...

...because it is just too crowded.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:19 PM

The thing that confused me (and confuses some Americans in my experience) is filtering right against a red stop light.

What does "filtering right against a red stop light" mean?


The thing that confused me (and confuses some Americans in my experience) is filtering right against a red stop light.
If a car ahead of you is stopped, and he has his left-turn signal on, and he is apparently waiting for a break in oncoming traffic so he can turn left, it seems harmless to pass him on the right, doesn't it? (This is in the US.) I'm sure I've done this many times. I'd probably slow down a lot first. That kind of thing is never prohibited, is it?

I don't think it's ever illegal in the US to pass on the right a car that is stopped for making a left turn. I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that's illegal anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:29 PM

My guess is that "filtering right against a red stop light" means "right turn on red (light)".

According to Wikipedia, turning right on a red light (after stopping fully) is now legal in all 50 states as in Canada, except when there is a sign prohibiting it, and in the city of New York and island of Montreal.

In the course of looking this up, I found this site that appears to be by a UKer about driving in the U.S. and Canada. Might be easier to digest than some of this confused and piecemeal discussion:
http://www.johncletheroe.org/usa_can/driving/index.htm.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 12:45 PM

I just want to point out that driving on the interstate highway in Montana is VERY SCENIC, and very little traffic. Often you don't even see another car on the road for miles.

Interstate highway 90 in Montana (photo)

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 02:42 PM

Desert Dancer: Thanks for that link to John Cletheroe's web site. He collects info not just about driving but about all sorts of differences between the US and UK. That's one of my favorite/favourite(!) topics. I plan to read a lot of it and send him lots of suggestions, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: gnomad
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 05:45 PM

JimD: re carriageway/lane; we UKers do use carriageway, but only in fairly limited circumstances. Thus a dual carriageway = two or more lanes in each direction, separated by a central reservation.

Single carriageway = no central reservation.

Single track road = only room for one vehicle, opposing traffic flows need to get past each other using the slightly wider bays (like tiny laybys) called passing places, these occur at irregular intervals where the landscape allows their construction. Picknicking or other prolonged pausing in passing places is verboten.

We use the term lane as it appears that you do stateside, for one of the marked lines of traffic. Lane is also used like Avenue, Street or many other terms as part of the name for a (usually minor) road, and as a general term for a minor rural road.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 06:16 PM

Inside lane , outside lane, the fact is that on multi lane freewayss drivers overtake in whatever lane they see fit, and I doubt anybody ever gets pulled up for it.

If you think about it, it can't be any other way, as in the US, on the freeway, the off ramps can be either off the left hand lane or the right hand lane, unlike in the UK, where the exits are always off the left hand lane.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: Alice
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 06:31 PM

From the US Department of Transportation web site:

"Although the left lanes of multi-lane freeways are widely viewed as the "high speed lanes" or "the fast lanes," the speed limit applies to all lanes on any given street or highway. The intent is that vehicles going slower than the posted speed limit should stay to the right."

CLICK

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 08:56 PM

Depends on the multi-lane speedway. Not all multi-lane speedways are like the six to twelve lane affairs found in and around cities. Some have only two lanes going in each direction, and on such roads, which lane people use for what purpose makes a much bigger difference, especially in hilly or mountainous areas. And nobody does all of their driving on multi-lane speedways, so being mindful of the possibility of such a law is still a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 09:02 PM

Speedways have no speed limits generally excepta few restrictor plate tracks, rarely have more than a two groove track and 3 or 4 cars abreast is rare at most speedways. And I don't know of any speedways where you run in two directions!

Or did you mean "freeways" Carol?

Spaw{;<))

Subject: RE: BS: Driving in the USA
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Feb 10 - 05:53 PM

The one tip I have not seen above is that when you use a coupon book, do not limit yourself to the listed hotels.

In the event that you seen another motel in a chain with a coupon and like its looks, go in and ask whether their rates have enough flex to allow them to meet the price in the book. Amazingly often, the price is yes.

An occupied room brings in more than an empty room. The desk person on duty almost always authority to negotiate prices. We never bother with a reservation when travelling by car and have never had to settle for second choice.

Use every tool you can and get every discount you can get.

Sometimes a simple offer of a price will get you a room, even without a coupon especially if there are very few cars in the lot.