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BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close?
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Subject: TavernCulture: What time do the bars close? From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:20 PM So, the Villan and I were talking about Americans drinking all night (or at least that's what the Brits think we do), and I got nostalgic about the neighborhood taverns back home in Wisconsin. Les thought that would make a good topic of discussion, and I agree. I remember when we moved from Detroit to Racine, Wisconsin, in 1958 when I was 9 years old. As we entered the town, it seemed that every major intersection had three taverns and a gas station. This was in a factory district, and it was customary for factory workers to stop for a "beer and a bump" (beer & a shot of brandy, in separate containers) on the way home from work. In most states, bars close at 2 AM - but it was my understanding that some Wisconsin taverns stayed open until eight or nine in the morning to accommodate the night shift workers, who were on their way home and to bed. Anyhow, can we dedicate this thread to the colorful history and customs of taverns? I suppose it might be better to have separate US and UK threads, but let's make this an exercise in shared culture. And let's all get together for a Beer and a Bump in the Great Wherever someday, hey? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:29 PM Here's sommat. In Fredericton, NB, Canada, where I attended uni, and first attended a tavern, one tipped the wait staff upon egress. If the eve's service was good, good tip, and vice versa. The first few times I went to a tavern in my home town, Moncton, I could not get a beer after the first round. No tip. No service. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM Signals... hand outward, index and middle finger up. Keep nods. If you put your hand down you receive two bottles of what you last ordered or, if you turn your hand 180 degrees you get two glasses of draught. If you show the back of your fist, you get a pitcher of beer... left hand indicates number of pitchers. If the wait staff flips you a middle finger, you didn't tip properly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:35 PM The local picture - Ireland; We asked our local landlady what time the official closing was - she had to look it up, she didn't know. In the next town last summer, an American visitor asked when the pub closed and was told 'November'. Told this before; one beautiful summer night we were standing around the front of the the pub when the landlord came out and said, "Would you mind coming into the bar, we're closing". In London, one music pub literally never closed; they changed the staff after each shift and kept going continuously. Fiddle player Bobby Casey went in one Friday night and didn't emerge into the daylight till the Sunday evening. Not realising how long he had been inside he looked up at the sky and said, "Isn't there a fine light to the evening". During the Willie Clancy Music School here, a Dubliner was staying with a neighbour. After a long drinking spree he came to his lodgings and went to bed. Some time later he emerged from the front door and asked a passer-by what time it was. On being told four O-clock, he then asked "What day is it?" Cheers, Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:41 PM Sounds a bit like the Cowboy and Indian films Joe. Presumably the closure of the factories stopped the early morning drinking Joe? Did you go to this school Joe? http://www.classmates.com/directory/school/Saint%20John%20Nepomuk%20School?org=17369691 When I lived in Amsterdam, it was possible to drink 24 hours of the day, as cafe's opened at different times. So if you found out the times, you cud gesh soshzled hic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Becca72 Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:47 PM Here in Maine the bars close at 1 a.m. Last call is 12:30-12:45ish so we certainly do not drink all night; at least not at the bar! |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: gnu Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:57 PM In Newfoundland, back when I was frequently there in the 80s and 90s, last call was 11:30 and the front door was locked at midnight. (Depended on the local community in smaller towns.) Anyone inside could stay until the keep ushered them out the rear door. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:59 PM Not too sure on this one. I used to go on a cricket tour to the Swansea area in Wales Uk every year in the late 60's. We always played one match at the Port Talbot Steel Works. From my memory the steel companies had their own social clubs and the bars were open for them when they came off shift to combat the de-hydration. Any Welsh mudcatters who might be able to confirm that? For cricketers. We played Port Talbot one year and this bloke had just come off shift and was included in their team. He wiped the floor with us with his bowling. He only played for Glamorgan Cricket Club first team. Forgotten his name now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: PoppaGator Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:17 PM No closing time at all in New Orleans; some visitors find this shocking, some amusing, others are simply grateful. Of course, individual proprietors are allowed to close whenever they want; for many this will occur only when no customers remain, although others (especially small business operators who work the bar themselves) observe a set closing time. Local bluesman Big Al Carter, regularly employed at a Bourbon Street bar, wrote a minor hit a few years ago, "Time to Take Your Drunken Ass Home," and famously closes his last set each evening with it. Also, an oft-repeated expression heard in N.O. barrooms in the wee hours of the morning is "You don't have to go home, but you sure as hell can't stay here." But there is never a situation where drinkers are legally required to heed a "Last Call." When I was a teenager in New Jersey, where the drinking age was 21, neghboring New York allowed 18-year-olds to drink ~ in practice, anyone who could pass for 18. (This made for a lot of underage drunken driving across state lines.) My home area of Central Jersey provided many young customers for bars in the Tottenville neighborhood in the southwestern corner of Staten Island. Much has changed since then ~ for one thing, all US states must now enforce the 21-year-old age limit to receive Federal highway money ~ so I don't know if the NY laws regarding closing times are still the same. My understanding back then is that drinking establishments were required to close for a stated period of time every 24 hours (one or two hours; can't recall), but no specific closing time was mandated. One establishment could close at 2 til 3 (or 4), another at 5 (to 6 or 7), etc. You could drink all night, but at some point you'd have to get off your stool, venture outside, and find another purveyor... |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:33 PM Does this bring back memories Joe http://racine.wi.net/tourfp.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:41 PM Yep, that's my town, Les - but it's a distorted view, because the Chamber of Commerce map doesn't show any of Racine's myriad and fabled taverns. Members of the Chamber of Commerce are all Episcopalians and Presbyterians and Methodists, and they don't admit to the existence of taverns in the Belle City of the Great Lakes. St. John Nepomuk school was for Czech Catholics. There was a Catholic church near the center of town for each ethnic group - ten Catholic churches, all within walking distance of each other. I went to a Catholic school run by German refugee priests on the outskirts of town - it served farm people of mixed ethnicity, and us yuppie kids who were suburbanizing the farmland. When the kids got old enough, they worked on their family farmos or could get summer and after-school jobs at Willie Quadracci's Sentry Market and at Kortendick's 4-Mile Drive-In, businesses owned by prominent parishioners. The tavern near our house was called the "German Beer Garden," but the name was changed to "Danish Garden" during World War II. My folks used to put us five kids to bed, and then they'd sneak out to the Danish Garden for a hamburger plate and beverages they didn't admit to. I was friends with the tavern owner, and we'd do chores in the tavern on summer days. It was a typical Wisconsin bar, a wonderful neighborhood gathering spot. Not much singing in Wisconsin taverns, but lots of good conversation. -Joe- Click here for some terrific pictures of Racine Wisconsin, the Belle City of the Great Lakes, on the mighty Root River. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: HuwG Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:04 PM 24-hour drinking? It's not enough, I say! |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:13 PM This is a very interersting read Joe http://www.racinehistory.com/timeline2.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Leadfingers Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:29 PM I enjoyed the beer (AND the drinking Hours) in Germany in the early sixties ! If you were spending and NOT fighting , they were open !o |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Ebbie Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:42 PM Upon arriving in Juneau, Alaska, I was surprised to learn that the bars closed at 1:00. In Oregon they close at 2:30; "bar time", however, is 10 minutes earlier than 'real' time, which gives everyone a chance to drink up. In Oregon, they can stay open later than 2:30 but they are not allowed to sell any alcohol after official closing time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rapparee Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:59 PM Taverns actually close??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:19 PM Here are the current laws for tavern owners, issued by the Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Certain businesses, like hotels, restaurants whose principal business is selling food, bowling centers, indoor horseshoe-pitching facilities, curling clubs, golf courses and golf clubhouses, may stay open after these hours for their regular business but may not sell or allow consumption of beer, wine, or liquor. One other unusual thing about Wisconsin drinking law:
-Joe- Click here for Milwaukee Taverns |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rapparee Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM Back when I was a young'un, the taverns (bars were for low-life scum) closed at 1 a.m. and reopened at 5 a.m. This gave them time to clean out the cuspidors. This was in west-central Illinois. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Joe_F Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:49 PM Time, gentlemen, time * Closing time meant nothing to the members of that outing. Behind locked doors, they hymned and rumpused all the beautiful afternoon. And, when a policeman entered the Druid's Tap by the back door, and found them all choral with beer, "Sssh!" said Noah Bowen, "the pub is shut." "Where do you come from?" he said in his buttoned, blue voice. They told him. "I got an auntie there," the policeman said. And soon he was singing "Asleep in the Deep." -- Dylan Thomas, "A Story" |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: open mike Date: 03 Mar 10 - 09:01 PM there is a beer that had 3.2% alcohol which (at one time, anyway) the young ones between 18 and 21 years old could drink. Coors in Colorado made this and the "kids" were happy to have (three point two) although you had to drink enough to float away before feeling any effects from it. There were a lot of trips made across state lines...to get to Colorado for the chance to get some! (you don't suppose the Coors beer lobbied for the laws to allow it to be served in their home state??!!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-alcohol_beer |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 04 Mar 10 - 02:33 AM Once upon a time Australia was famous for the six o'clock swill - the rush by drinkers to drink as much as they could before the pub closed at 6pm. Then we got 10pm closing! And sometime in the late 70's PUBS COULD OPEN ON SUNDAYS!!! So western suburbs kids didn't have to travel out to Colyton hotel - 45km from the CBD the first pub outside the Sydney Metropolitan limits where "genuine travellers" could have a drink. Of course it was only 20km from where I grew up, so we we went there we hadn't travelled very far, so we naturally gave false addresses. Nor-one really cared in those days. Of course, when Random Breath Testing came in (late 70s??) that change a lot, but that's a different story. In the mid 70's I moved into the inner city, into Sydney's entertainment centre, where everyone comes for a good night out. As the folk clubs are not here, I go elsewhere. Today we have a lot of discussion about our drinking hours as the drinking culture here follows the British binge drinking model rather than the cultured European model. Attempts are being made to change the culture - dunno how effective that is, but legislation is allowing smaller bars to be established. We have 24 hour drinking in some places, & normal closing times from 10pm, midnight to the early hours of the morning depending on the premises & area. Apart from our small suburban pubs we also have many "beer barns" = huge establishments where many patrons idea seems to be get blind rotten fighting drunk, and a smattering of small intimate bars where the aim is to create a quiet friendly environment for drinks after work. The Coogee Bay Hotel is one of these large hotels which feature of lists of places where anti-social behaviour happens - scroll down to Liquor Amendment Regulation 2008 & Eastern Beaches Liquor Accord for info. sandra |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 04 Mar 10 - 07:24 AM Dino'z looks alright Joe. It seems he is going to have Sunday music. With more room in his new place, Pawelski hopes to offer live music, an attraction which added to the atmosphere -- and the crowds -- at his previous location. "That's something I'd like to do," he said. "I'm looking into doing an open Sunday jam, too. I've been playing harmonica for 20 years, so that's something I think will be fun. It will give people a chance to get up and perform. It's always fun. It's always different." |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Emma B Date: 04 Mar 10 - 11:30 AM An anecdote about my first visit to Ireland as an adult It was my birthday (one of those with an 0 in it) and we had booked a night in a Youth Hostel on a small island off the SW coast. As it was a walking holiday we had travelled lightly and by public transport which meant that we were dependent on the advertized facilities on the island for a meal that evening. To our surprise (the rumour of a restaurant was false) that turned out to be one very small shop that only sold a restricted choice of non perishable tinned goods However, there was a bar on the island and at 9 pm we set out for a celebratory drink if deprived of the anticipated meal When we arrived the doors were firmly shut and I sat on the sea wall opposite the entrance feeling pretty miserable After a few minutes a jolly man joined us and asked us if we were wanting a drink. Explaining that we had hoped to he opened up for us and served us slowly and beautifully two of the finest pints of Guiness I have ever tasted In some surprise I asked if he only opened when patrons arrived what time did he close? He smiled indulgently at me and just queried 'Well what time now would you be wanting to be leaving?' In memory of Paddy Burke; we remained friends and returned to that bar for many years until his sad death. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:34 AM Now, I have to say that a Wisconsin tavern is an art form. I turned 21 while I was working at a boys' camp on Friess Lake in Hubertus, Wisconsin. This was a real small-town place. Heck, Mrs. Friess was the cook at our camp. So, anyhow, I celebrated my birthday by going next door and buying a beer next door at Wally & Bee's Last Stop, a classic Wisconsin tavern where I had quaffed many soda pops before I turned legal. There was a dog lying on the floor behind the bar, of course. If Wally or Bee had to leave, one of the neighbors would take over and tend bar. There was a jar of quail eggs on the counter. I never saw what you were supposed to do with them - I think you broke the egg into your beer. I never tried that. There were three shelves of liquor behind the bar. The bottom shelf was well-used, mostly brandy. The top shelf was dust-covered high-priced stuff. Hanging on the wall between the shelves were two shotguns. A single-barrel gun was marked "for weddings"; and the double-barrel gun was marked "for formal weddings." Oh, and there was a room with a pool table that had a lake view. That was the social center of the neighborhood. I went back a few years later and found that Wally and Bee had both died, and the tavern had been taken over by their children. I wonder if Wally & Bee's grandchildren are running it now - people don't move very far in Wisconsin. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:55 AM Have you started wriring your memoirs Joe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Rasener Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:56 AM *writing - wriring |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: Joe_F Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:33 PM It was climbing toes. The tar bender had mucked up the pigs and was making a queen sleep with a saggy rope. With some reluctance, I found myself whoring for the dead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: LadyJean Date: 05 Mar 10 - 09:56 PM I went to Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. The town had two mainstreets and 24 bars. Drinking was the chief form of recreation on campus. I think the bars closed at 2 on Fridays and 1 on Saturdays,on account of Saturdays are followed by Sundays, when the bars had to close, and students had to do their drinking at home. I remember the local eateries closed an hour after the bars did, which meant the staff at those places spent a fair amount of time cleaning up vomit in the small hours of the morning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: eddie1 Date: 06 Mar 10 - 03:08 AM Back in my early drinking years in Scotland, you could only get a drink on Sundays in a hotel bar and only then if you were a "Bona Fide Traveller" and were en route to somewhere else. You had to sign a book giving starting point and destination. These regulations were taken very seriously! I remember being in a hotel in South Queensferry and reading, a couple of lines above my name, that Donald Duck was en route from Los Angeles to Sydney. I wonder how he managed to hold the pen? I looked for him in the bar but he must have had his drink and swam on! Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: TavernCulture:What time do the bars close? From: GUEST,peeveeeff Date: 06 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM In the late 60's in Halifax, Nova Scotia taverns were not open on Sundays but "lounges" were allowed to be open as long as food was served. A friend and I went to the Acadian Room lounge one Sunday♠ afternoon in the long gone Acadian Hotel on Hollis Street. We asked for a quart of beer each and the waiter informed us that we could not drink unless we ordered food. I asked him what was the cheapest thing on the menu and he replied "Cheese and Crackers". I asked the price and he replied "It's complimentary". We enjoyed several beer over several Sundays with complimentary cheese and crackers. |
