BS: Republican response to Health Reform

Subject: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:31 PM

No You Can't

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:33 PM

What a clown.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Alice
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:37 PM

Oh, that was funny.

Careful you don't get hypnotized while listening. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:15 AM

Well done!

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:05 AM

I think they CAN ! Just hope they can carry on improving things !

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:10 AM

"Unfairly or not, the defining images of opposition to health care reform may end up being those rage-filled partisans with spittle on their lips. Whether the outbursts came from inside Congress — the "baby killer" shout of Rep. Randy Neugebauer, and his colleagues who cheered on hecklers — or outside, where protesters hurled vile names against elected representatives, they are powerful and lasting scenes of a democracy gasping for dignity.

Now, ask yourself a question: can you imagine Ronald Reagan anywhere in those pictures? Or anywhere in those politics? Reagan was all about sunny optimism, and at times bipartisan bonhomie. In him, the American people saw their better half.

    The Republican Party has taken some of the worst elements of Tea Party anger and incorporated them into its own identity.

Compare that to the closing days of a week that will soon be chiseled into the larger American story. One Democrat, Rep. Ciro Rodriguez, said he was called a "wetback" by Tea Party hecklers at a meeting a few days before the vote. Black members of Congress say they were spat on, and called racial epithets. Bricks were thrown through the office windows of two other Democrats. And now, the inevitable death threats.

From the leader of the opposition, at least, was expected a level of decorum. But instead, Rep. John Boehner, the Republican who wants to be the next speaker of the House, predicted "Armageddon," and shouted "Hell, no!," his perma-tan turning crimson in rage.

Most of these vignettes are isolated incidents — a few crazies going off in a vein-popping binge. But the Republican Party now has taken some of the worst elements of Tea Party anger and incorporated them into its own identity. They are ticked off, red-faced, frothing — and these are the men in suits.


In trying to explain his intemperate shout over a bill that in fact explicitly outlaws using public funds for abortion, Congressman Neugebauer said he was representing the views of people back home in Texas, as expressed in town hall meetings. By this logic, he'd throw his popcorn on somebody's head if enough people did it in movie theaters in his district.

"Let's beat the other side to a pulp!" Rep. Steve King, Republican of Iowa, shouted to the last stand of Tea Partiers on Sunday night. "Let's chase them down! There's going to be a reckoning."

Indeed there will. But as the party of the hissy fit, Republicans are playing with fire.

On Monday morning, most Americans awoke with some relief that the epic battle was over. Then, they tried to figure out what health care overhaul would mean to them. They found out that insurance companies would no longer be allowed to drop people if they get sick. They saw that older children could stay on their insurance through age 26. And the elderly, the most consistent voting block, discovered that the new law would gradually end a prescription drug donut hole that causes many of them to cut their pills in half to get through a month.

No death panels. No socialized public option. No forcing people to change doctors or providers. And the most contentious part of the new law — requiring nearly everyone to get health coverage or pay a fine — does not kick in until 2014.

Little wonder then, as the focus turned away from legislators cutting deals to a new law of the land that tries to help average people, the polls showed public sentiment starting to shift. Armageddon was nowhere to be seen."

(NY Times Opinionator)

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:03 AM

It isn't health care....it isn't even money that they are frothing over. It's the fact that Obama has won on this VERY important battle. They were banking on him losing, and being able to label him a loser in 2012. Now, by that time, it will have sunk in that he and the Democrats have done something seriously GOOD for the country and made the Republicans look like fools for all the lies and dirty politics.

(well...it IS also money....the money they get from their corporate backers to finance elections. I suppose you 'can' say, using the old joke, that the Republicans are honest politicians - once bought, they STAY bought.)

Now they are sort of committed to doubling down and increasing the lies and hyperbole and artificially linking all sorts of special interest issues to this one...just as they have been playing the abortion card.

Expect to hear LOTS more about guns and religion and *gasp* Socialism, and innuendo about race and immigration and every other conservative 'hot button' they can think of! They KNOW how to use fear and prejudice to inflame people, but just 'maybe' those they are trying to inflame will realize that the party which FINALLY got them Health Care is really the party which cares and can be trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:14 AM

The big question now is how the courts will handle it. Once the suits are filed, will everything be put on hold until a legal decision is made?

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:54 AM

Those challenges are political theater. Nothing more. Its a shame that some of those attorney's general can say the things they have been saying and remain members of the bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:07 PM

It is disgraceful. Rather than participate in the process and produce a health care plan to benefit the entire nation, both parties voted along party lines to ensure their own re-elections. A few hundred people get paid to fuck around, pontificate, hurl slurs and decide our lives for us while protecting their power base.
I suggest term limits in both houses - maximum two. Work, get it done right and get out.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:13 PM

"Its a shame that some of those attorney's general can say the things they have been saying and remain members of the bar."

             They have issues that seem reasonable to them. That's why we have three branches of government.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:16 PM

No, Riggy, they have issues to make political hay out of. Every legal scholar has indicated that they have no chance of prevailing. This is about politics at the expense of the public. Nothing else.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:23 PM

Term limits? You mean keep folks like Henry Waxman and Sherrod Brown and Sheldon Whitehouse and Barney Frank...and a whole list of others from being 'established', with experience and wisdom?
No thanks...I'd rather struggle with the bad ones than lose guaranteed GOOD ones.

(UNLESS we change the entire system of choosing candidates to eliminate most of the power brokering and nepotism... I can design that, but the 'system' has its own built-in safeguards against any changes that interfere with its habits.)

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:29 PM

"Every legal scholar has indicated that they have no chance of prevailing."

             There have been a number who have indicated they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM

The scholars that are most credible, and not paid shills of Fox or any network, are pretty unanimous in their opinion.

As to term limits, in a democratic republic they are built in. It is called "one person, one vote". Only those opposed to representative democracy would be in favor of anything other than that. Note how it was the conservatives, when they could not win in the court of popular opinion known as the majority, that favored establishing term limits.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM

The legal challenges, at least so far, seem to be focused on the mandatory coverage provisions that don't go into effect until 2014. I doubt if any court would accept a suit to delay the entire program in order to address that part (dumber things have happened, of course).

These challenges focus on the idea that a Federal law imposing an obligation on the states is precluded by the 10th Amendment. The Supreme Court addressed this, on the topic of Social Security and Medicare, in 1937, and found that a national law that addresses the general welfare of the citizens of the entire nation is constitutional. (Look up Helvering v Davis, if you'd like.) It would be very interesting if the current Court found the health care program unconstitutional - then where would Social Security be? Besides broke, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM

Mitt Romney has called the bill unconstitutional and asked for repeal. Several states are voting to put roadblocks in the way of implementation. Loosely organized groups, Tea, Statists and Liberty, are whipping up opposition.

If the opponents increase their voting power in Congress, and the attacks continue to grow, repeal is likely if the Republicans prevail in 2012.

The 'majority' in the last election may well be a 'minority' in coming elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:33 PM

Right, Q. That is called democracy. We will see who prevails in the next election. Why do you think the opposition spent so much money and time trying to demonize it? Because they knew that once passed, folks would come to see it as essential, just as Social Security and Medicare are. The last numbers I saw show a 49% and rising approval, and a 40% disapproval. See you at the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:35 PM

This is basic Constitutional law 101...


"South Carolina's attorney general is leading nine other state AGs -- all Republicans -- in threatening to sue over the provision of the health care bill that exempts Nebraska from new Medicaid costs, a measure secured by Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE).

The 'review' was prompted by a letter sent Monday by Sens. Lindsey Graham and Jim DeMint to Attorney General Henry McMaster, who is currently running for governor. 'We have serious concerns about the constitutionality of this Nebraska compromise as it results in special treatment for only one state in the nation at the expense of the other 49', they wrote.

In an interview with McClatchy, DeMint said the Nebraska provision, which would save the state $100 million, violates Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution: 'No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another ...' "

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:39 PM

Health Care Reform

It's Time to Decide, and 54% of Voters Oppose the Health Care Plan
Sunday, March 21, 2010

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has scheduled a House of Representatives vote today on the health care reform plan proposed by the President Obama and congressional Democrats. Yet while in Congress there has been months of posturing and shifting of political tactics, voter attitudes have remained constant: A majority oppose the plan being considered by the legislators.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months.

Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it.

The partisan divide remains constant as well. Seventy-four percent (74%) of Democrats favor the plan, while 87% of Republicans are opposed. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 34% are in favor, and 59% are opposed.

Still, 50% of all voters say they're less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan.

Fifty-seven percent (57%) believe that if the plan passes, the cost of health care will go up. Only 17% believe the plan will achieve the stated goal of reducing the cost of care.

At the same time, most voters (54%) believe that passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care.

The Congressional Budget Office recently said that the proposed legislation would reduce the deficit, but voters are skeptical of the official government projections. Eighty-one percent (81%) believe the health care plan will cost more than projected. That's one reason voters overwhelmingly believe passage of the plan will increase the deficit and is likely to mean higher middle class taxes.

Some parts of the legislation are popular, but voters are reluctant to embrace the high cost of paying for it. Most voters (56%) oppose reducing Medicare spending and also oppose an excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans. Fifty-seven percent (57%) also believe that passage of the plan will hurt the U.S. economy.

In fact, 55% of voters would rather see Congress scrap the original plan and start all over again.

While most voters oppose the legislation, 64% say it's at least somewhat likely to pass. The disconnect between sustained public opposition to the health care plan and the belief it may pass may be one reason that just 21% of voters believe the federal government has the consent of the governed. This follows a similar disconnect on the bailouts, the government takeover of General Motors and other initiatives that were approved in the past year despite strong public opposition.

In his new book, In Search of Self-Governance, Scott Rasmussen observes that most Americans "have come to believe that the political system is broken, that most politicians are corrupt, and that neither major political party has the answers." He adds that "the gap between Americans who want to govern themselves and politicians who want to rule over them may be as big today as the gap between the colonies and England during the 18th century."

In Search of Self-Governance is available from Rasmussen Reports and at Amazon.com. The book ends on a hopeful note and reminds readers that "in America, the politicians aren't nearly as important as they think they are."

Skepticism about politicians plays a role in the opposition to the health care legislation as well. Only 20% believe most members of Congress will understand the bill before they vote on it. When it comes to making health care decisions, 51% fear the federal government more than they fear private insurance companies. Thirty-nine percent (39%) fear private insurers more.

Health care reform now ranks fifth in terms of voter concern on a list of 10 issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:42 PM

Then why have a term limit on the presidency? Vote him out if he is useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:44 PM

Once again: South Carolina has given the Unites States two things: Lindsey Graham and the Civil War. I'm not sure which is worse.

The man is a grandstanding ignorant disgrace.

NB:"Attorney General Henry McMaster, who is currently running for governor..." gee, wonder what his agenda is in filig these frivolous suits? see Big Mick, above.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:58 PM

PDQ:

The part that is being conveniently left out of that hollow position is the brainwashing campaign of false data, fear-mongering and rabblerousing rhetoric that has been endlessly spewed out by the right-end media buys all over the country. Anyon can rig up a poll when they have the population to be polled thoroughly confuzzled and terrorized by painting false alarms and catastrophic scenarios that are completely off the beam. Stirring up fear and hate is a specialty of the right end. They just seem to think that way. Dunno why. But echoing, copying, acting out, amplifying, and cross-seeding all that fear and false mayhem information is a really STUPID WAY TO BE A RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN.

Oh, sorry....damn capslock.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:58 PM

I agree, Sinsull. I don't think that is a good idea either.

pdq, you are emblematic of the old saw, "figures don't lie, but liars figure". You know full well it depends on how the question is asked. For example, if asked whether the individual components, such as pre existing conditions, kids on their parents plan until 26, cost containment, then the numbers skew way in favor. The fact is that those numbers you quote are a direct reflection of the program of disinformation that was instituted by big money folks. Further, your numbers are prior to the vote. Since the vote there is a shift occurring. I would suggest that the real referendum will come in the next election. See you then.......

In the meantime we will be working on jobs, and on sensible restraints on the financial services industry. I can't wait to see how your Republican bosses try to paint that. But in the words of the great Christy Moore, at The Pointe in Dublin, "tough shit, Paddy".

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:59 PM

The projected cost of the plan is said to be one TRILLION dollars, more or less, over ten years, as if that were an horrific amount.

One TRILLION dollars over ten years is, as I figure it, somewhere between 25 and 30 dollars per month per American.

I pay EIGHT TO TEN TIMES THAT right now just for my Medicare part B and Medigap supplement. I shudder to think how much someone without Medicare or employer benefits has to pay for similar coverage.

Am I missing something here?

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM

"I agree, Sinsull. I don't think that is a good idea either.

Who are you agreeing with about what, Mick? She said she might like 'term limits'...I disagreed...then she suggested what is called in other countries "a vote of confidence" where someone can be removed anytime...although this usually applies to just 'leaders'.

In our current system, neither would work very well....and would no doubt require constitutional amendments.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM

Sorry, Bill. I thought it was evident. Here is the post I was referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: SINSULL - PM
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:42 PM

Then why have a term limit on the presidency? Vote him out if he is useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:22 PM

I was at a meeting last night where a wannabe governor introduced himself. He is a Democrat, running against Sean Parnell who became Alaska's governor when Sarah Palin resigned.

I talked at some length with a man who used to be a gung ho Republican. In the '80s he was an officer in the US military when it suddenly occurred to him that the message of 'Better Dead than Red' was ludicrous. He said last night that that's when he began to learn to think.

He is no longer a Republican. Although we agreed that in the *old* Republican party it was legitimate to vote for the occasional Republican politician, that is true no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:36 PM

My post from 03:39 PM was from the most respected polling organization in the country, Rasmussen Reports.

It is dated 21 MAR 2010, the day the House voted to approve ObamaCare.

If people don't like what Rasmussen found, it ain't my fault. Not Rasmussen's fault, either.

He tracks 10 concerns that the US people have and health are re-do was only fifth.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:17 PM

As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law.


"WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the legislation "a good first step" that needs to be followed by more action. And 4% say the bill itself makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:24 PM

Maybe I should have used big letters in my last post. Here goes...

As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law.


"WASHINGTON — More Americans now favor than oppose the health care overhaul that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds — a notable turnaround from surveys before the vote that showed a plurality against the legislation.

By 49%-40%, those polled say it was "a good thing" rather than a bad one that Congress passed the bill. Half describe their reaction in positive terms — as "enthusiastic" or "pleased" — while about four in 10 describe it in negative ways, as "disappointed" or "angry."

The largest single group, 48%, calls the legislation "a good first step" that needs to be followed by more action. And 4% say the bill itself makes the most important changes needed in the nation's health care system."

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:24 PM

One poll I saw, and I have no real interest in looking for it, said that some 30% of those who don't like the health care bill dislike it because it doesn't go far enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:30 PM

Funny thing about the new 'n improved Reoub strategy is that it takes US back to arguments that were used by Southern states some 180 years ago about states rights... If you listen to folks like Virginia's Attorney General, Cuncinilli he would have you believe that states have the rights to ignore any federal law that they want to???

Ummmmmmm, not to get too specfic here but isn't that what the Civil War was fought over???

This is what I was talkin' about on another thread... The Supremes are going to find themselves ina major pickle here... That say, on one hand, that states cannot have their own gun control laws or limit corporations form unlimited spending on campaigns becuase federal law trumps state law... Now you have all these states with Repub governors lining up to make arguments that werde part of the 1830s... That's right... The 1830s!!!

Oughtta be interesting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM

The Republican leadership has reputiated the few hecklers that went over the line and it is dis-ingenuious to try to hang this issue around the necks of Republicans. One Republican reported today that someone fired a shot through his office door or window so the anger is not confined to Republicans. Some liberals are pissed because they feel the Bill is not liberal enough.

The thread title, I believe, is an insult to my Party and the thread should be re-titled. No one has proved yet that the crimes were committed by Republicans.

Mick states, in his post of 25 March at 12:16 PM, "Every legal scholar has indicated that they have no chance of prevailing." (the state AG cases against the health care Bill).

That's a pretty broad statement I think. That takes in a lot of scholars in the United States. I, myself, have heard legal scholars on TV declare that the AGs may have a pretty strong case. I guess we will just have to wait and see. If Mick is right, I would think that it won't take long for there to be a decision made, not if it's a slam dunk as he suggests.

Since our president is, himself, a Constitutional scholar, it would be a bit embarresing, I suppose, if he were to have signed a Bill that he knew was unconstitutional. Right?

DougR

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:43 PM

The Republican leadership has been encouraging and inciting people to use violence to overthrow the democratic election ever since Obama was elected, and they were encouraging and inciting violence during the run-up to the election. Their condemnation of such tactics (yesterday only) is hardly enough to undue the damage they've done by encouraging and inciting that kind of behavior over the last few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

What will the polls show after the dust settles? Polls at this time are meaningless. What will they be when the next congressional election rolls around? Will opposition grow, or fade away?
Several states are planning constitutional arguments; what effect will they have?
There are a rocky few years ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:46 PM

By the way, the title of this thread was in reference to something that John Boehner said about the health care reform bill (now law - watch the video), and is a perfectly legitimate title for this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:56 PM

"The thread title, I believe, is an insult to my Party and the thread should be re-titled. No one has proved yet that the crimes were committed by Republicans."

Doug,

The thread title refers to Boehner's reaction to the Bill, being the leader of the House Republican's, I believe that he is more qualified to voice the Republican reaction than you.

......

On the other hand,
If you have a more keen sense of humor, you would see that the thread title was at least partly in jest.

On the other hand,

If you had a more keen sense of humor, you would not be a Republican.

.......

Please note that the lines between the dots were said in jest.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:05 PM

Q, the trend has been that the more people learn about the new law and the benefits it offers for them personally, the more they like it. If the trend continues as it has been going, the Democrats could look pretty good in the fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:06 PM

16 jackasses who say it is unconstitutional, does not make it unconstitutional. As I have said before, they shouldn't be allowed to say this publicly and practice law.

It is unethical and it is misrepresentation. Unless they are stupid enough to think that it is unconstitutional, then they are simply unqualified.

If the fed can require you to pay taxes, then they can give you the choice to either
a. Buy Health Insurance or
b. Pay taxes.

Last I heard, it was constitutional to require taxes be paid.

It may be worthwhile to note that they do not plan to put forward a single piece of case law to back up their claim.

They are just trying to stir up ignorant people that are too lazy to find information that isn't spoon-fed to them by liars and rabble rousers.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:08 PM

Btw, for the record, the "Nullifier Party" was founded by John CXalhoun in South Caroline in the late 1820s, was short lived and out by 1840... Their belief is that the states had more power than the federal government... This, in essence, is the Republican response... The Repubs, at least in Virgina, think that the state can pass laws whch override federal law...

BTW, this was the argument that led to the Civil War...

As for Boehner's response to the violence??? Paltry, at best...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:10 PM

CarolC: "As of right now, a majority of people in the US like the new health care reform law."

49% in favor, with 40-41% opposed, is a plurality, not a majority.

Close though.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:11 PM

No, Doug, YOU are an insult and embarrassment to what the Republican party once was and stood for but which has now evolved into a bunch of mindless obstructionist BuShite assholes- as clearl;y demonstrated by their embrace & support of Limbaugh & the other hate-mongering, violence inciting on-air bloviators.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:20 PM

Has anyone actually watched the video? It's very funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:22 PM

Ok, beeliner.

I guess it would be accurate to say that there are more people who like it than there are who don't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:46 PM

When Americans voted in the last eleuntilction, they voted a mandate for health reform. That stands until and unless in some future election they vote to repeal it. Fluctuations in opinion polls in the meantime, such as the one pdq quotes, don't have any significance, except when it comes to making prophecies about future election outcomes.

In fact, no country which has introduced universal affordable health care has ever voted to abolish it. People can be stupid at times, but not that stupid, it seems. Maybe the USA will be the exception, and demonstrate that, in one corner of the planet, they can be. Only in America, as they say...

But I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: pdq
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:18 PM

I'm sure that the "usual suspects" will say that a CNN poll doesn't count either...

CNN Poll: 59% of Americans Now in Opposition to Obama's Health Care Plan

Posted by James Richardson       Monday, 22 MAR 2010

A majority of Americans hold a generally negative view of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, according to a new CNN poll which found 59 percent of respondents now in opposition to the plan.

After a dozen pro-life Democrats hold-outs lead by Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak caved Sunday to increasing pressure from the White House, the House adopted on a strictly party-line vote the Senate's bill, which now awaits the President's signature.

Among the most salient of Republican talking points on health care, the poll showed, were the issues of cost and quality, which Congressional Republicans had said the bill fundamentally failed to address.

62 percent believed the new reforms would result in a spike in personal medical expenses, while only 21 percent said they would remain the same. In September of last year, a similar poll found 47 percent believed the President's plan would increase medical costs; 35 percent said costs would remain the same.

Democrats hemorrhaged support on the issue of quality, too. The number of those who said their families would be better off dropped nominally, while a significant margin shifted their opinion from September that their families would be "about the same" to "worse off." 47 percent held the view their families would fare worse if the legislation was implemented; 19 percent responded they would be better off; and 33 percent said they would be about the same.

Most damaging–insomuch as anything apart from legal challenges can derail the near-certain implementation of ObamaCare–is that respondents universally held the opinion that the President's reforms will increase federal deficits. 70 percent said the bill will result in higher deficits; 17 percent said it was deficit neutral; and only 12 percent said it would reduce the nation's deficit.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: beeliner
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:33 PM

The bill was passed Sunday night, the CNN poll released Monday morning, so it's reasonable to assume that the actual polling took place first.

The most current polls I've seen agree with Carol's figures, and it wouldn't surprise me if the approval figure went over 50% by the weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:43 PM

That polling took place on 3/19-3/21. This from the CNN article (I knew I saw that someplace!): Roughly one in five of respondents who said they opposed the bill did so because it was not liberal enough, and those people are unlikely to vote Republican. Take them out of the picture and opposition to the bill because it is too liberal is 43 percent.

More recent surveys have a very different result.

Subject: RE: BS: Republican response to Health Reform
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:46 PM

Yeah, Carol... I saw it last night on MSNBC... Very well done...

As for polls??? They are a joke... The insurance and drug lobbies have put out an unprecedented amount of media-buy PR and, unfortunately, alot of it has stuck... But the underlying subliminal message in this PR avalanche is that the Dems did this in the dark of night and no one knows what is in the bill... Well, all I gotta say is that if you don't understand what is in this bill yer either brain dead or just landed from another planet...

B~