BS: Can the LibDems Win?

Subject: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:13 AM

Now that The Guardian has decided to support them, do you think they stand a chance this time around?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:17 AM

If everyone votes for them ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:23 AM

Not if only the Guardian readers vote Liberal.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:49 AM

The Guardian has always been a Liberal/ Lib Dem inclined paper, supporting Labour only as being the more viable alternative.

There is no realistic or near-realistic prospect of the Lib Dems getting a Parliamentary majority with the present voting system. Conceivably, if there was a majority for Lib Dems and Labour together, they could form a coalition - and if the Lib Dems had more popular votes, they could demand to be seen as the senior partner in this, even with fewer seats, with their man in Number Ten. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

More likely at present appears to be a Tory minority administration, a few seats short of a majority. In principle that should mean that there would be a majority of MPs elected on a promise of a referendum on electoral reform - but I suspect that, if there is no reward in the shjape of immediate power, Labour would rat on that, as they did after 1997, when their manifesto promised the same thing,

The daftest thing is where you have Lib Dems telling supporters not to vote tactically for Labour in seats where the Lib Dem candidate hasn't a hope. The suggestion is that building up the popular vote is important in itself, regardless of the mathematics of the elected House. In fact, however many votes the Lib Dems get, there won't be electoral reform if the Tories get an overall majority.

The one option nobody seems to be anticipating is Labour and the Tiries getting together to form a Grand Coalation aka a National Government. But I wouldn't rule it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:51 AM

But there's definitely something very interesting going on here. As far as I know, The Guardian has always been a staunch Labour supporter. Something pretty earth moving has had to have happened for them to change colour. Are they not just reflecting the dissatisfaction/desenfranchisement that people are feeling with the corrupt governments we have had to endure which has now broken most of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 10 - 07:16 AM

The Guardian has always been a staunch Labour supporter.

No. The Guardian's support for Labour has always been tactical. It's always been anti-Tory, but that's not the same thing. Back when the SDP broke away it enthusiastically backed them. And its record as the Liberal backing paper goes back way into the 19th century.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 May 10 - 08:31 AM

A great number of us now look forward to the forthcoming Conservative government - not long now!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 May 10 - 10:50 AM

Labour? That's not been in power for a very long time. There's not a gnat's difference between the attitudes of New Labour and the Conservatives. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And if any party in this country thinks it can do much to overcome problems rooted in an international situation, it should think again. Cameron will be just as powerless and shiftless as Blair and Brown have been. The proof of the pudding will... "not long now!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 03 May 10 - 11:44 AM

The switch to Lib Dems by the Guardian and the Observer is an anti Tory measure, not essentially pro Lib Dem. Both papers realised that Labour is going to lose and hope that Clegg would support a Lib/Lab pact but without Brown. There is a problem in that Clegg said he would not support a party which had fewer votes albeit more seats which could be Labour's position when the election results come in.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 10 - 12:15 PM

What politicians say before an election is designed to get people to vote for them. It need not bear much resemblance to what they do once the votes have been collected.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 03 May 10 - 12:26 PM

I think people underestimate how much the Libs have jumped in the public consciousness, and I think people would be well advised to prepare for a hung parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: pdq
Date: 03 May 10 - 12:40 PM

Many members of the British Parliament should be hung.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 03 May 10 - 01:25 PM

"What politicians say before an election is designed to get people to vote for them. It need not bear much resemblance to what they do once the votes have been collected."

That is perfectly true and of course another scenario is that a Tory party with the biggest number of seats but no overall majority may decide not to go into a permanent coalition with the Lib Dems (who would almost certainly demand PR in any such coalition) but may decide instead to try and work on with a minority government which means they may need to work out deals on specific issues only. It is not so far fetched as there is a precedence with the existing SNP administration in Edinburgh who have no majority. They've managed to get most of their bills through but have had to abandon certain measures where they have no support from elsewhere.   

Another scenario with this is that if they bring forward their English MPS for English matters idea - then it is perfectly possible that they could have a real working majority on many of the proposed Westminster bills anyway once Scots, Irish and Welsh based MPS are discounted.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Gervase
Date: 03 May 10 - 01:34 PM

If the Tory party were to enter a coalition with the Lib-Dems it would be short-lived. Cameron would want a mandate, so he would wait for the public's infatuation with Clegg to wane (and delay imposing some of the more draconian cuts that any new government will need), force through a policy that would sunder the coalition and go to the country again.
With Labour tearing itself to pieces in the wilderness and the Lib-Dems tarnished, the Tories would achieve a sizeable majority.
Then the fun will really start. To quote Will Hutton:
"The state will become a Conservative fiefdom, with even local police forces directly run by Tory politicians in the name of "democratic accountability". The City of London will not be reformed. Wealth will become ever more concentrated in fewer hands. Scotland, Wales and many English regions will be devastated by swingeing public spending cuts – almost their sole economic prop for the last decade – and by ongoing de-industrialisation.
"The management of an economy burdened by excessive private debt, fragile banks and a faltering economic recovery will be ideological. The prison population will grow even faster than under Labour as populist social repression intensifies.
"There will be some worthwhile improvements – the scrapping of ID cards and aspects of the Big Society programme which has been too quickly dismissed by liberal critics – but in the round Britain will become a meaner, less generous and more unequal society despite David Cameron's declared intentions. This will be Murdoch's Britain, with the BBC to be cut back and Sky's influence extended. Government will be in thrall to the right of centre press. The sale of our companies to the highest foreign bidder will accelerate..."
Still, there seem to be plenty of turkeys willing to vote for Christmas, like our Bonzo above.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 10 - 01:46 PM

I wholly agree with Will Hutton's analysis there.

Interestingly, I was considering voting Lib Dem because I think the new constituency boundaries make a Labour win in my constituency improbable - the wonderful Bob Marshal-Andrews only squeaked in last time - but I see the local conservative publicity repeatedly mentioning a constructive relationship with the LD's so they've bloody had my vote and I shall be voting Labour as the only chance to keep the conservative bastards out.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 10 - 02:17 PM

Sounds as if "the local conservative publicity " has worked in your case then...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 03 May 10 - 02:34 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 03 May 10 - 01:46 PM

<" I shall be voting Labour as the only chance to keep the conservative bastards out. ">

Hi Richard

I will be voting Lib Dem for EXACTLY the same reason as you - in my constituency we have Cameron's Eton chummy......Osborne !!

If the Conservatives do get in life will not be all plain sailing for them. As well as the global financial problems etc etc...Europe will raise it's head and the splits which have been papered over in the party will re-appear splitting the Tories once again right down the middle.

Hold on to your hats and buckle your seatbelts.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 10 - 02:58 PM

I quite like the idea of splitting the conservatives down the middle - I've got a chainsaw, two felling axes and a splitting axe.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 May 10 - 05:43 AM

McGrath of Harlow, you were right about poiticians changing their mind. The following is an extract from the Scotsman newspaper:

Mr Clegg said at the weekend that it would be "preposterous" if a party which came third in votes continued to govern.

But yesterday, on a visit to Edinburgh, he said:

"If Labour does come third, people would find it inexplicable (that] Gordon Brown could carry on as prime minister. I will work with anyone who can deliver the greater fairness people want."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 04 May 10 - 07:15 AM

In answer to the actual thread-title question ; Yes, there is an outside chance that they COULD ! Those of the electorate who are likely to actually bother to USE their vote (which,in the interests of true democracy should,obviously,be compulsory ),are quite likely,in my opinion, to vote Lib Dem in order to show their contempt for, and dissatisfaction with,the other two major players.The extremist parties will also, I suspect,do much better than might otherwise have been expected,had the Blues and the Reds behaved with more selflessness,honesty,and decorum.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 04 May 10 - 07:44 AM

"In answer to the actual thread-title question ; Yes, there is an outside chance that they COULD !"

It seems to be a pretty slim outside chance though. The BBC site has a seat calculator and I put in 36.9% of the vote for the Lib Dems; 33.7% for the Conservatives; 25% for Labour and 4.3% for others. Incredibly enough on those figures it would still see Labour as the second biggest party on 204 seats with the Tories on 249 and Lib Dems some way back on 171.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 May 10 - 08:13 AM

I will be voting Lib Dem for EXACTLY the same reason as you - in my constituency we have Cameron's Eton chummy......Osborne !!

I fail to understand your objection to a chap simply because he went to Eton - inverted snobbery of the worst kind!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 May 10 - 09:17 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 03 May 10 - 02:58 PM

< " I quite like the idea of splitting the conservatives down the middle - I've got a chainsaw, two felling axes and a splitting axe.">

Hi Richard

I'll hold your coat.

FFOMAL......!!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 May 10 - 09:23 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 04 May 10 - 08:13 AM

< "I fail to understand your objection to a chap simply because he went to Eton - inverted snobbery of the worst kind!">

Hi bonzo

I don't object to Osborne because he comes from the same college as Cameron. That is just a co-incidence that sort of scrapes the icing off the cake.

I won't go into the reasons why I won't be voting for Osborne....but they are political not purely personal.

cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Gervase
Date: 04 May 10 - 10:20 AM

George Osborne didn't go to Eton, he went to St Paul's. That's probably why he was called 'oik' by his Bullingdon chums, who dangled him by the ankles dangled him by the ankles until he yelled "I am a despicable c**t".
On that basis the poor chap deserves a sympathy vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Gervase
Date: 04 May 10 - 10:36 AM

...and on more than one occasion, by the look of that post! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:04 PM

Facebook poll currently showing the following ...

23%
Conservative
23%
Labour
36%
Liberal Democrat
10%
some other party
8%
Don't know

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Stu
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:09 PM

"I fail to understand your objection to a chap simply because he went to Eton - inverted snobbery of the worst kind!"

Possibly, but then it might give some insight into why Cameron and the invisible (for the duration of this campaign) Osborne feel the need to cuddle up to the positively nasty Polish Law and Justice Party (as well as other such right-wing looneys as the Latvian Fatherland).

Tories get in, we're fucked. Pure and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 04 May 10 - 12:13 PM

"a Tory minority administration, a few seats short of a majority"

Is that a synonym for a few sandwiches short of a picnic?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:22 PM

Hi Gervase

Thanks for pointing out that George Osborne didn't go to Eton.

I got that from the press. Just shows you can't believe everything - or is it anything you read in the press.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:29 PM

Hi Jack

Osborne has appeared to have gone into hiding hasn't he??

I think Cameron has salted him away out of the clutches of the media !!

He hasn't been seen all that much here in his constituency either.

There is no doubt that he was found a very cushy safe seat here.....remember it was here that we had the "shennangins" of Neil Hamilton !!!! nuff said !!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 10 - 02:33 PM

Trouble is, whatever the polls say about the LibDems, they still need to actualy win seats. The present government were elected with a low vote count - but they won most seats and that is what counts.

Mind you, whoever we vote for, it's always the governemnt that gets in:-(

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 May 10 - 03:23 PM

I think that the Tories will get in and they'll go on and on and on ...until they're caught out in some fiddle or other and then at some indeterminate time in the far future New New Labour will get in and they'll go on and on and on until they're caught out in some fiddle or other ... and the the Tories will get in again until ... round and round and round and round ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 04 May 10 - 03:57 PM

BBC calculator says - if 26% vote labour and 26% vote tory, and 38% vote liberal, Labour will have the most seats ...

How is this a democracy again?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:08 PM

Although stranger things have happened, I can't see the Lib Dems winning. Unfortunately, with so many voters disatisfied with the current government, many will vote Lib Dem as a protest and in so doing give the Conservatives a better chance of winning. I live in a Labour stronghold so do not have that dilemma but do not relish the thought of another round of Tory leadership. I may not be a great fan of Brown but actually find him more genuine than Blair and certainly far better than Cameron and his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:24 PM

So long as the Tories do not have an overall majority, there will be a majority in the House of Commons for giving people a chance to vote on changing the electoral system so that it will be impossible for any MP to be elected unless at least 50 per cent of the voters agreed to that happening.

Even if the Tories, who are against that, do manage to set up a minority government, they cannot stop that referendum happening.

That would mean that there will never again be a government elected on a derisory minority vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:25 PM

However, the only way to be rid of this unfair system is to vote lib as neither labour or tory have any intention of growing up and learning to cooperate in government with another party unless they have no choice.

PR is the publics only way to teach them to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:31 PM

If you vote Liberal in a seat where Labour is the only party that can beat the Tory, you are helping keep "this unfair system". And the same applies if you vote Labour where the Liberal Democrat is the one who can beat the Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:56 PM

"However, the only way to be rid of this unfair system is to vote lib as neither labour or tory have any intention of growing up and learning to cooperate in government with another party unless they have no choice."

History actually shows that to be incorrect though. They might be tediously slow to implement it UK wide but Labour now say they favour it and of course have already set up PR in Scotland and Wales for those elections. Labour would have been guaranteed probably an almost permanent majority at Holyrood with first past the post, and at the time had a huge majority at Westminster, yet dor the devolved elections they went for PR after discussions with the other parties etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 10 - 05:15 PM

If you vote Liberal in a seat where Labour is the only party that can beat the Tory, you are helping keep "this unfair system". And the same applies if you vote Labour where the Liberal Democrat is the one who can beat the Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 10 - 05:34 PM

and, unfortunately, where we have proportional representation, we get the loony minorities represented in parliament. Some may think this is fair but to have an extemist of any nature sat in a position of power goes against the grain as much as the current system.

So, as always, I propose a benign dictatorship with me at the head...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 May 10 - 05:40 PM

If I lived in Scotland I'd be voting SNP, a party which would scrap Trident, abolish the House of Lords along with ID cards and all the redundant remnants of the Scottish Office. Fiscal autonomy would stop the argument regarding the Barnet formula and answer the English worry about Scottish MPs voting on English matters. I would suggest we remove the blue from the flag and leave the rest to Billy Bragg.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:16 AM

If the UK wants PR (surely it does?) then Lib Dem is the only way. Lab & Con are never going to go along with that because they know they have so much to lose!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:22 AM

If the UK wants PR (surely it does?) I'm not at all sure, Jim. See why a couple of posts above.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Stu
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:40 AM

Don't forget the Tories unholy alliance with the Ulster Unionists - hardly the way to ensure the peace process continues without alienating even more republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:55 AM

"If the UK wants PR (surely it does?)" I'm not at all sure.

So why not let people decide that for themselves?

In any case PR is just one possible voting reform. At the very minimum a system with a chance for people to put candidates in order of preferance would ensure that people who most voters rejected would not get elected. That should see off the BNP pretty effectively.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 10 - 07:04 AM

So why not let people decide that for themselves?

I'm not stopping them, Kevin:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 10 - 07:20 AM

But the Tory party is. If they have a majority there won't be a referendum on changing the electoral system. If they don't have a majority, even if they are able to form a minority government they wouldn't be able to stop one being held. (Unless Labour members, elected on a promise of such a referendum by October next year, rat on that pledge, which is of course always quite possible.)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:26 PM

"Can the Lib/Dems win"

No, unless they get at least 40% of the vote and Labour 25% and Conservatives 25% or soemthing like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:41 PM

Even then it would not be sure. Smiler, Eg - 10 constituancies that all have a 40% vote for lib dem but 5 of them have a 50% vote for Labour and the other 5 have a 50% vote for Conservative - End result = 0 Lib Dems, 5 Labour and 5 Conservative. Yet the votes polled were 40%, 25%, 25 % as mentioned. Weird init!

Even with PR it means they would not have an overal majority.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:25 PM

"If the UK wants PR (surely it does?) then Lib Dem is the only way. Lab & Con are never going to go along with that because they know they have so much to lose!"

Labour had a huge majority at Westminster and yet they introduced PR as the voting system in the devolved Scottish Parliament despite the fact that it was obviously against their interests to do so. Without PR the Labour Party would probably have had a permanent majority at Holyrood whereas they've had coalitions with the Lib Dems and now are the opposition party to the SNP govt. They also introduced PR in Wales where they are now in coalition with Plaid. Surely it will most likely be Labour, albeit with the Lib Dems nagging in their ears, who will eventually introduce it at Westminster too?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:54 PM

The only way PR could come would be if the Lid Dems held the balance between Labour and the Tories, dug their heels in, and got one of those parties to offer it in exchange for support.

More likely is a reform involving the Alternative Vote. That could come about even if the Tories formed a minority government, since in a hung parliament there would be a majority likely to support that, who could outvote the Tories and set up a referendum to bring it in.

And quite conceivably the Tories could offer this in exchange for L9b Dem support. After all they could still campaign for a No vote in such a referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:48 PM

Well they've got a better chance than this lot ...

Poor poor knickers ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 10 - 07:47 PM

I hope the Conservatives win, and it looks like they may have a shot.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 05 May 10 - 07:49 PM

In one way I hope the Conservatives win - from the way Cameron's been talking it'll mean the complete break up of the United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 06 May 10 - 02:54 AM

Thats good Dave. We can then stop subsidising you lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 06 May 10 - 04:19 AM

"More likely is a reform involving the Alternative Vote. That could come about even if the Tories formed a minority government, since in a hung parliament there would be a majority likely to support that, who could outvote the Tories and set up a referendum to bring it in."

I don't think that would really happen. The vast majority of bills are generally introduced by government ministers and in a Tory minority administration (bar possibly an Ulster Unionist) all the ministers would be Tories. The Tories point blank refuse electoral reform. Opposition members have an opportunity to propose Private Members Bills but in reality in the past only uncontroversial legislation ever proceeds to bill stage - though it can cause a caffufle right enough so can directly effect govt thinking. The problem for the opposition is that Labour propose the Alternative Vote system in their manifesto whereas the Lib Dems totally disagree and support the Single Transferable Vote system. So if a Lib Dem backbencher managed to introduce a private members bill it is unlikely they would get full Labour backing and vice-versa. I think the only way it would come about in the next session (unless there is a complete Tory u-turn) is if we have a Labour-Lib Dem coalition where the method of voting to be proposed is hammered out and agreed on right at the start of party negotiations. A Labour leader may be much more co-operative with the Lib Dems if the keys to No 10 are on offer - whereas as members of the opposition they might be far less liekly to vote for Xmas

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 May 10 - 07:04 AM

Whoever wins will need to do something about the utter peabrains at both Companies House and HM Revenue & Customs.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 May 10 - 01:42 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/first_time_voter/8518247.stm

I know that a lot of thick people will be voting, but this really takes the biscuit!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 06 May 10 - 03:41 PM

Bonzo
Some people have never voted before, so it helps to explain what to do.

Its Ok for me having voted for 46 years.

However in fairness, I explained to my daughter who is 18, what to do, as it was her first time.

I also spent time helping her to know the difference between the different parties and what they stood for.

I also explained that she was not voting for the prime minister and that she should be voting for the person who will serve our area best.

I gave her info on each candiddate and then explained that it was her decision who she voted for.

She took it all seriously and enjoyed her first time voting.

I asked her who she voted for and the bugger wouldn't tell me :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 May 10 - 04:06 PM

"I hope the Conservatives win."

You sure, Doug? Here's what David Cameron had to say about health care, in the first of our TV debates. Way to the left of anything you'd get from Obama or the people I think you'd call "far left":

"I think the NHS is a wonderful, wonderful thing. What it did for my
family and for my son, I will never forget. I went from hospital to
hospital, A&Es in the middle of the night, sleeping in different wards
in different places. The dedication, and the vocation and the love
you get from people who work in the NHS just, I think, makes me
incredibly proud of this country, so thank you for all that you've
done.

"I think it is special, the NHS, and we made a special
exception of the NHS and said yes, there are going to have to be
difficult financial decisions elsewhere, but we think that the NHS
budget should grow in real terms, i.e., more than inflation, every
year under a Conservative government. My vision is that we
improve it, we expand it, we develop it, we make sure that it's got
more choice and more control for the patient."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 06 May 10 - 05:27 PM

Well it looks like the Libs are the damp squibs ...

... How sad - i had hoped it might be their year.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 06 May 10 - 05:58 PM

Tories predicted to be just short of a majority. How the f*** do they know that at 22:53 Uk time?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 06 May 10 - 06:04 PM

exit polls

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 10 - 06:09 PM

I'm sorry, Yookies. Put yer money under the mattress.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 06 May 10 - 06:14 PM

I am not a yookie Sorcha :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 10 - 06:40 PM

Are too! UK-er as opposed to US-er. Therefore a 'Yookie'

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 10 - 07:39 PM

Well, McGrath, somebody is going to win. I doubt Labor's attitude toward NHS is more conservative than the other two parties running.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:32 AM

We will celebrate the loss of so many labour seats!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 05:13 AM

A useless prime minister indeed who has lost so many seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bugsy
Date: 07 May 10 - 05:37 AM

One bright light there though, no BNP!!!!


Cheers

bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 05:46 AM

Absolutely!

Brown is "an unelected prime minister" who has been voted out of office and must go.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Stu
Date: 07 May 10 - 05:48 AM

Good news that the Green Party have their first MP too.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:07 AM

Hi

The answer to the original question posed is obviously no !!!!!

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.....then comes the negotiating !!!

IMHO Clegg will go with Tories .....what it will cost them and us...who knows ??

Bad day for the Country.

The real downer is that in this age of financial debt we look like another election is on the cards very soon.

Does anyone know just how much this will cost an already bankrupt Country ??

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:07 AM

"Brown is "an unelected prime minister" who has been voted out of office and must go. "

By the same token, if Spawn of She-Devil Cameron took office, he too would be an unelected Prime Minister as he does not have a decisive mandate to do so. Sauce for the goose, Boko!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:07 AM

Yes Jack.

That is the big news.

Well done Brighton for having the guts to ignore the 2 party tactical blackmail lie.

And Well Done Caroline Lucas.

At the next election, when we have PR, her party will win more seats as will the lib dems.

There might be a BNP candidate or 2 who scrapes in but society will be represented.

Oh yes - and the big parties will have to grow up and learn to cooperate.

All this idea that a Hung Parliament is a nightmare is only true in a first past the post system where the government can be undermined by the threat of a no confidence motion followed by another first past the post election.

Under PR, the main parties would have to stop behaving like spoiled children fighting over a toy.

Bonzo3legs - why are you wearing a blue suit? In all likelihood the tories will be in opposition for another 5 years after which PR will ensure that they never have an absolute majority ever again.

Your dream is over.

But you carry on gloating if you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:11 AM

The fact is, Lox, that although BonzoBoko claims to be an accountant, he can't add up - wouldn't like to be one of his clients!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:02 AM

89 labour seats lost.........blue suit..........celebration!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:14 AM

What's to celebrate, the fact that PR is as far away as ever?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:19 AM

PR is not on my agenda, can you comprehensive/secondary modern people not unot understand English - I celebrate the labour loss of 89 seats or whatever it is now,

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:41 AM

it seems that Bonzo does "not unot understand English" as well as he thinks he does ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:45 AM

That's a good typo - I must use that again!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:50 AM

Everyone ready for the next election?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:54 AM

"comprehensive/secondary modern people not unot understand English "

You snotty bastard - I assume you went to some minor public school where you were beaten, bullied and buggered into having that brain-dead lickspittle attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:56 AM

...and this from someone who lives in Croydon - UGH!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:18 AM

"Brown is "an unelected prime minister" who has been voted out of office and must go."

Why don't you dopes get it - there's no such thing as an elected Prime Minister, our electoral process doesn't include a space on the ballot paper where you can vote for the Prime Minister.

Gordon Brown was electd as an MP by his consituency, and elected as Leader by the Labour Party under their established election process. He was as 'elected' a Prime Minister as any other.

And before you crow, Bonzo-Half-A-Brain, face facts - this is a disaster for the Tories. With the events of the past two years they should have won the election with a huge majority. As it is, they'll struggle to form a government because a lot of people realised that Cameron's just a Pretty-Boy-Soundbite-Collector, with no recognisable or credible policies, who relies on people who enjoy taking it up the arse from the Toffs to vote for his appalling party.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:37 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:10 AM

In fact I can't help but wonder how Labour might have done with someone like Milliband as their leader.

Gordon was caught calling a woman a bigot and then didn't have the balls to stand by his comment ... not to mention public perception of him before the campaign started ...

... And the tories still didn't get an absolute majority?

Shame!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:54 AM

I am not at all convinced that Brown was not put in place simply to make Blair look good after he lost face over Iraq. I am sure there were better political choices than Mr Bean! STill, all over now bar the shouting. Don't think he will last long as leader.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:54 AM

I laugh at the typical labour ranting and raving - bad losers!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 09:59 AM

If Clegg takes it up the arse from "Dave" (well, he should be used to it, having gone to Westminster) it will be the end of the LDs

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:02 AM

Just bite the pillow, Nick.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:03 AM

Didn't another Lib leader do that Richard?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:08 AM

I've lost track of who is winding up whom here!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:14 AM

Richard - Brown has responded by offering unconditional electoral reform effective immediately if he gets into government.

Cameron has offered an enquiry into electoral reform.

The Libs have a very clear policy preference.

Don't Panic.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:27 AM

"I laugh at the typical labour ranting and raving - bad losers!!"

You seem to be the only person who thinks they know who's won. One thing is for certain - it isn't the Tories.

Seems to me that, after 40 million or so people have voted (or whetever it was)it comes down to the casting vote of one man.

Democracy in action?

(BTW, boko, whatever makes you think that I voted Labour?)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:35 AM

BTW - In answer to the thread question. I think they are probably the only ones who might have!

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:37 AM

Consider how many seats PR would give to the BNP - just think on that nightmare and waste of government time!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:39 AM

Bend over and brace yourself, Bozo - Dave and his cohorts have got plans for you and the rest of the Mucky Toffs. Hope you've got a big jar of Vaseline! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 07 May 10 - 10:44 AM

David el Gnomo - are we talking about Jeremy Thorpe?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:05 AM

91 seats now lost by labour.......91!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:08 AM

I can't remember, Jim. I was but a lad and didn't know about these things.

But I remember a comment about someone lying there chewing the pillow. And a whole load of us going into histerics about Palethorpe sausages.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:17 AM

"Gordon Brown was electd as an MP by his consituency, and elected as Leader by the Labour Party under their established election process. He was as 'elected' a Prime Minister as any other."

Exactly so! The Prime Minister is the leader of whichever party is in power and if the leader changes then the new leader simply becomes PM. Apart from Brown the last one to get the job that way was John Major.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:36 AM

In Scotland the SNP had 20% of the vote and 6 seats. The Lib-Dems had 19% and 11 seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:42 AM

Tories are 20 seats short of a majority....20 seats!!!!! What a washout for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:57 AM

Newspaper allegiances round-up:

The Daily Telegraph - Conservatives
The Sunday Telegraph - Conservatives
The Sun - Conservatives
Daily Mail - Conservatives
Daily Express - Conservatives
News of the World - Conservatives
The Times - Conservatives
The Sunday Times - Conservative
The Economist - Conservatives
The Mail on Sunday - Conservatives
The Financial Times - Conservatives

The Mirror - Labour, but urging tactical voting for Lib Dems

The Independent on Sunday - Liberal Democrats
The Guardian - Liberal Democrats
The Observer - Liberal Democrats

And the Tories still couldn't get an overall majority?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 12:13 PM

"Consider how many seats PR would give to the BNP - just think on that nightmare and waste of government time!!"

They would be as significant in westminster as they are in Europe.

ie ... irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 May 10 - 12:16 PM

NO, they can`t.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:06 PM

No, Thorpe was the shafter. His little friend "Bunnies" was the pillowbiter. That was the point of my comment. Still, at least Eton, Westminster and St Pauls should understand that sort of power sharing.

"Dave" started his campaign with a 28 point lead in the polls. Some mandate he got! Er, that's the other sort, not man-date.

The financial meltdown resulted from trickle-down (Thatcher/Reagan) economic policies and Brown and Darling (and Obama) were well on the way to a solution and now the cut-now idiots will undo all the good done. How stupid are the electorate?

Finally (for this rant) there is I suppose a silver lining in that ID cards will vanish, and HIPs will vanish - both of which were bloody stupid ideas. But stupid is better than the malice of the conservative axe, which will cut only where it does the most harm to the poor and the least to the rich - as always.

As the song has it - "Ain't it all a bleeding shame?"

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Teribus
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:26 PM

Can the Lib-Dems Win - NO

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:46 PM

The lib dems have won.

They will choose the party who enact PR straight away.

At the next election their share of power will increase by about a hundred votes.

Thats the liberal holy grail.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:59 PM

Hi

Strictly speaking Brown was not elected as leader of the Labour party. He was the only candidate as none of the other Labour ministers stood against him.

John Major was elected by his party to be Leader : after two preliminary elections the other two contestants withdrew.


Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:42 PM

Therefore by the rules of the relevant erection, GB was elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:37 PM

So labour have lost almost 100 seats - that's almost 100, in case anyone can't hear - thats almost 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:46 PM

Yes, and the Spawn of She-Devil Thatcher STILL can't get a majority. That's NO MAJORITY therefore no mandate to form a government - what a bunch of losers!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bugsy
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:46 PM

A question from the southern hemisphere,

Why is the election always held on a Thursday?

Down here in AUS we have all our elections on a Saturday giving everyone more time to get to the polling booths.

I heard that some of the stations over there were inundated and had to close early. (I would guess that would be because most people were at work and came after).

Just wondered,

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: s&r
Date: 08 May 10 - 05:12 AM

Polling stations close at 2200. Some polling stations still had queues at that time. Those people who had not been given their voting form by 2200 couldn't cast a vote.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:55 AM

Bugsy,

On election day broadcasters in the UK are required to impose an almost total blackout on any strictly political discussion commencing an hour before the polling staions open until they close and certainly can't discuss the results of any early exit polls

This leaves a bit of a vacumn and, after the effects of the weather on turn out have been exhausted, someone inevitably asks the question why are elections conventionally held on a Thursday?

The only 'explanation' that the BBC were able to offer was that, as people were tradionally pad a weekly wage on a Friday, this was the best way of securing a sober electorate!

Another often quoted reason is -
'the government is formed on a Friday, and then everyone has a weekend to absorb the change and for the government to prepare for work.'

That doesn't always work either :)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:14 AM

"Polling stations close at 2200. Some polling stations still had queues at that time. Those people who had not been given their voting form by 2200 couldn't cast a vote."

There was a bit more to it that that though. There seems to not have been enough facilities (ie stations or booths or whatever) as people were seemingly queuing for up to an hour and a half. And at least one polling station ran out of ballot papers mid evening meaning people who had turned up in plenty time to vote couldn't do so because the organisers made a balls up.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:26 AM

Yes Allan.

Besides, there can be no excuses for a 21st century democracy if dedicated voters who have queued for houers in the rain to vote are told they can't come in.

In this day and age, people should be able to come at 9.55 and get their vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bugsy
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:37 AM

So what is yuur opinion on compulsory voting. We have it here in Aus and I for one think it works.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:45 AM

There are certainly good arguments to support the idea - mainly sentreing on the sacrifices that have been made in the name of democracy by soldiers, suffragettes and numerous other civil rights activists.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:55 AM

I would vote in a referendum for compulsory voting.

Clegg appears to be holding Labour and Conservative to ransom. I don't think it is going to work.

We might just as well hold another election.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 12:10 PM

He needs to be careful that Brown doesn't call his bluff.

Which is more important to him - PR or getting Brown out ...

... and more importantly - which is more important to Liberal voters ...

They will feel betrayed if he doesn't accept Browns offer of an immediate referendum.

The Next Government will be short lived whatever happens - best to make sure that when the next electon is called, that it is a fair one.

If it's called in 3 days it will be First Past the Post and they will lose this wonderful opportunity to force through electoral reform.

I can't see how the liberals have any other choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 10 - 12:39 PM

A lot of beefing about proportional representation - now how exactly will this work please?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 10 - 01:19 PM

there are several different forms of p r,one method is the single transferable vote.why dont you google it

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 03:33 PM

It would probably work a bit like the Scottish version (Mixed Member System).
There would be X number of constituency seats and Regions where there would be X number of seats to allocate on a % vote for each party within that region.
You would get 2 votes on each ballot paper. One for the person you want to vote for (Constituency, just like now) and the second is a vote for the party you want to be elected (Regional).
The regional seats would be allocated on the number of votes a party receives within that region based on a %.
How all of that is agreed, I wouldn't know

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:37 PM

Sounds like the local council system to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:43 PM

I wouldn't know.
However, I can see how people like the BNP might get seats. Not good.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:55 PM

PR is the system used in most of Europe to elect their governments, including Ireland, Germany, Italy etc etc.

If you don't know what it is that says nothing about how good it is, only how ignorant you are for not being aware of one of the most fundamental political issues in British constitutional politics.

As a quick aside, in the local elections on Friday, the BNP lost ALL their seats.

In Barking in Dagenham, their big hope this year, they used to have 3 seats. They now have NONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:00 PM

Is this a coded message to start the campaign for PR in anticipation of a referendum on electoral reform? ...

Cleggs Speech to Party Faithful ...

... Or is he fobbing them off with a half truth? ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:08 PM

That's not a "speech to party faithful" - that crowd doesn't trust him. They are there to try to stop him doing a deal with the Tories that sells out electoral reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:10 PM

"It would probably work a bit like the Scottish version (Mixed Member System)."

No in the Scottish system you have one normal vote for a constituency MP then another vote for your preferred party and members are then elected from party lists depending on the figures of total votes cast divided by the number of seats you have already - then the calculation is done again and again. Both the Labour and Lib Dems proposals are based on you putting the candidates in order of preference.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:10 PM

28 thousand people who don't want to be 'CON-DEMed'
here

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:23 PM

Nick Clegg strikes me as being a Glib-Dem... "I won't be voting for the pretty boy" was how an old lady I was talking to on the eve of the election referred to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:43 PM

"That's not a "speech to party faithful" - that crowd doesn't trust him"

They are party faithful, looking for reassurance that he too is remaining party faithful, and not selling out to another party.

The question I asked was - is he giving that reassurance or is he just fobbing them off?

I don't see how he can sell them out. It would mean the end of his career in westminster.

He could never claim again to represent the liberals and no voter would ever trust him again.

In the process he would also condemn the liberals.

He has no choice but to press cameron for a referendum on electoral reforem, or to accept Browns offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:48 PM

And far from Being a pretty boy, he is playing a very clever diplomatic game.

By Negotiating with Cameron he has forced Brown to put his concessions on the table before any negotiations with labour have even begun.

In addition, he is demonstrating how mature politicians should behave. Instead of entrenching themselves into hostile adversarial positions and taking a defensive/aggressive approach to politics, he is insisting on consensus politics and is giving his ear to the leader who is best able to behave constructively.

When PR comes in, that is the type of politics that our MP's will have to learn to engage in.

And it is about time too.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:30 AM

"I won't be voting for the pretty boy" was how an old lady I was talking to on the eve of the election referred to him."

Well there's an intelligent and carefully considered decision for you. Only slightly more gormless than "I'm voting for the XYZ party because that's who my parents always voted for".

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:13 AM

Oh well, I'm off to our polo club to get an update on the Faces reunion!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:59 AM

Keep an eye out for horse-shit, Bozo, there'll be plenty of it coming from those horses-arses the toffs have for mouths.
And it'll be the working-class Mucky-Toffs like you that they'll be shitting on. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 06:29 AM

It's OK I've got brown wellingtons - with a "94 seats lost" pattern on them!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 06:57 AM

Does another bit say 'and we STILL can't get in power'?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:00 AM

What would anyone want with Browns wellingtons? ...

... And why would anyone wear them to a game of polo?


OK Bonzo.


The Tories ARE in power, You ARE a millionaire and you really DO play polo.


Aren't 'oo kwevver.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:16 AM

Just a quick comment from the left side of the Pond.


Don't think I've seen this on the thread yet.   What I've read is that this election comes under the heading of:   "Be careful what you wish for"---since anybody who "wins" this election will have to cut the budget substantially---with a lot of pain for somebody, probably for a lot of people.   That party or parties will then as a result lose a lot of popularity.

So any politician who wants a successful career in politics would actually be better off out of power at this point.

Is that a reasonable statement?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:50 AM

Not Quite the accurate overview.

Certainly that is the view of the tories, that substantial cuts will have to be made straight away, but labour disagree and claim that they would make cuts more gradually on the basis that cutting too much too soon could be to starve the economy of oxygen as it were.

There are also different approaches on the matter of where to make cuts, and who to tax.

In Short, yes all parties will make enemies of some sort, but they will make different enemies.

The Libs and Labour are more likely to make enemies in the financial sector, while the tories are likely to punish the most vulnerable in society.

On the subject of analyisis and predictions ...

I'm starting to wonder whether the libs might jump in with the tories after all.

The language that the libs and tories are using suggests that they are moving into a new phase of negotiation and that they may be comng near to making a deal.

I can handle this as long as there is a referendum on PR.

If Clegg jumps in with Cameron and this commitment is not made then he can kiss his career goodbye and the libs can kiss their chances goodbye for years to come and they will be known as the party who betrayed their faithful.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:51 AM

I've emailed the LibDems. I've been disenfranchised twice. Once by moving to a safe Conservative seat which will never, never change, and now by having my LibDem vote converted. Unless he gets PR out of it. Which I doubt. Anyone remember TBlair promising electoral reform before 97?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 10 - 08:04 AM

But everybody agrees that cuts will be made?   So somebody--and probably a lot of people-- will be unhappy.   It sounds like we agree on that.

If the Liberal Democrats and Labour would be making enemies among the financial sector but not among the general electorate, are you implying that the budget problem can be dealt with just by raising taxes, and not by cutting the budgets of any government programs?

This is obviously also germane to the US situation, since we have the same issue to grapple with. I've just heard that in the US, Secretary Gates says that bureaucracy is 40% of the Department of Defense budget--which itself is huge-- and that therefore deep cuts in DOD could be made.   I would think the UK does not have the same option since the Ministry of Defense is a much smaller part of the government than military expenditures are in the US.

Is this accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 May 10 - 09:07 AM

We are told there are 650 seats making the winning cut off at 326. If we take the 5 Sinn Fein seats away (they always abstain) and a further 4 which include the Speaker and his three deputies who are traditionally neutral, we have a new overall majority figure of 322.
Lib, labour and the 9 Nationalist MPs add up to 324 whereas the Tory 306 plus 7/8 Northern Irish MPs only make 314 max.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:57 AM

Ron - Like every administration in the world, I suspect, cuts can be made and they can be minimised. But where is the news in that? The media will only report on cuts to child care, education, health and anything else that really matters. Cutting beurocracy is not news so very little will be said of it, even if it does the trick. No-one wants to know if billions are saved on over funded management but cut the free coffee for the workers and it gets you into the news.

There is an old joke - Welshman in the case of the UK. Chose your own after reading. Welshman complaining to a friend. "I looked after all the local old people for years. Shopping for them. Fixing their house. But did they call me Jones the carer? No."

"I created some masterpieces in the local park. Floral displays, beautiful lawns, paintings on the side of the bowling pavilion but did they call me Jones the gardener or Jones the artist? No."

"I only shagged one bloody sheep..."

Moral - Only bas news makes th eheadlines:-)

Oh - and I am getting pretty pissed off with politcs!

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:29 PM

The Lib Dems have won. They have managed to get Gordon Brown to resign.

So he has got his bum sucking way with only 50 odd seats.

So it is highly unlikely that there will be a Con/LidDem amalgamation.

6 months time the cons will wipe the board as the Lab/Lib Dem come under so much pressure

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:45 PM

Obviously Gordon Brown was going to resign, however the manoeuvrings went. He'd failed to win the election. It was just a matter of getting the right timing for the announcement.

Touch wood.

Either there'll be a LibLab coalition bringing in electoral reform - or the Tories are going to have to come up with a deal that provides the same reform.

Either way it should mean an end to the risk of an administration dominated by the right wing of the Tory Party for the foreseeable future.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:11 PM

>>foreseeable future<<

Short term future.

Has Scotland got a place for Gordon the Scot.

We want an English PM who will look after us rather than the Scots, Welsh and Irish.

Brown has sold England down the Swannee

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:16 PM

I will give 10 out of 10 for Cleggs abilty to speak excellent Dutch. It is very impressive.

Click on this link. http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/935991/b3159ba3/nick_clegg_spreekt_prima_nederlands.html

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:28 PM

Interesting isn't it that even Brown himself - almost gone, time for another celebration!!!, has now said that labour came a distinct second in the General Election - and yet his own staunch sheep on this site do not appear to be like minded!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:47 PM

Of course they came second - but so what? If there is a Lab/LibDem coalition,that represents fifteen million voters as against ten million for the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:54 PM

Yes Bonzo.

Poor Labour ...

... Back in Government again

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:57 PM

HANG ON FOLKS ......

"Senior Tory George Osborne said they would offer the Lib Dems a
referendum on changing the voting system."

It ain't over yet ...

... one tail wagging two dogs!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:59 PM

Yes Bonzo.

Poor Labour ...

... Back in Government again

I don't mind in the least, Brown is going!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:09 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:59 PM

>"Yes Bonzo.Poor Labour ...... Back in Government again I don't mind in the least, Brown is going!!!".

Hi bonzo

Your fixation on getting rid of Brown mirrors your party's policy.

They became transfixed with removing Brown that they could mention little elase as their policies during the run in to the election. They took their eye off the ball and they look as if their short-mindedness has come back to haunt them.

Osborne's only comments made here in his constituency when asked during his canvassing tour about how they planned to cut the deficit was " we will get rid of Brown".

Don't forget Brown has said he will resign...but he hasn't said WHEN.....hope this time the Libdems read the small print unlike the Tories....lol

Be careful what you wish for.....next time it may be Cameron's head Clegg will be after.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:12 PM

I don't think we've seen the end of Brown yet - watch this space!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:29 PM

Oh no. Brown is a slimeball

Subject: RE: BSlot of people : Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:36 PM

As John McCain might have put it, Gordon Brown is a decent man with whom a have some serious political differences. So is David Cameron and so is Nick Clegg.

Couldn't we dispense this this stupid stuff about "arse-lickng" and "slimeballs" and so forth, from any political direction?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:40 PM

Thats fine McGrath
Stop having a go at anybody who doesn't like or support Brown or Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:49 PM

Yes McGrath - I'm with you all the way.

We are witnessing one of the most exciting and fascinating constitutional events in British history, not least because it looks like being the last FPTP election in British Politics.

And yet the best some on here can manage is to chant a few tacky footbal slogans before contradicting themselves under the table.

As for the Mystery Guest and his comment "You are talking Bollocks McGrath" ...

... actually, no he isn't. More than half of the votes cast in this election were for Parties left of centre, who supported PR.

Less than 40% of he votes supported right wing politics.

LIB/LAB represents the liberal majority.

As will continue to be the case when PR is introduced, which will now definitely happen as both tory and labour are offering it.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:25 PM

What utter tripe you labourites come out with.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:38 PM

"Utter tripe" - that's a very powerful argument from The Smiler.
...............................................

Con Lib Dem 17.5 million
Lab Lib Dem 15.4 million

And Labour Conservative would be 19.5 million

Add in the Nazis and UKIP and it'd go up to 21 million.

But it's preferable for parties allying with each other to have political attitudes in common. That's true enough for Labour and the LibDems. It isn't for the other alliances I indicated there.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 05:34 PM

I cannot and do not accept that "Dave" is in any way a decent man, nor can I accept it about any other conservative politician, or most other conservatives. It is very simple. Should the rich be made richer by the poor?

We really do need the guillotine.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:45 PM

Plenty of people in the Labour Party who don't have many worries about the rich being made richer by the poor. And it's perfectly possible to be a conservative and long for a fairer society.

All political parties are pretty imperfect, in their policies and in their members.

Mandelson was less guarded about it than most when he talked about how "we are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich", but it seems evident he was speaking the truth about how his colleagues saw things.

Best way to shoot yourself in the foot is to lose your temper. Hitting the target requires that you keep calm.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:51 PM

NO, it is not possible to be a conservative and take any steps towards a fairer society. It is a contradiction in terms.

The Lord Mandelson moves in mysterious ways, but he was probably doing two things when he said that. First, he was trying to avoid alienating the grabbies. Second, he was laying a base for his own get rich quick schemes.

One of the main problems with the New Labour party is that it tolerates the rich stealing from the poor.

Aux barricades!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 May 10 - 03:35 PM

Looks like Lab have well & truly f****d things up!

There's gonna be one helluva price to pay for this, I remember feeling just the same way when that b****y woman got in in 1979 (b****y depressed) and boy, did I have good reason to be!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:07 PM

Can the libs win?

Well - they're in government for the first time in ... how long? ...

Roll on PR- then whatever happens ... happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:13 PM

celebration!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:12 PM

Judas Clegg. Wave goodbye for ever to being seen as a credible alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:29 PM

Roll on PR

Yes indeed. But there is no prospect of it coming. And the chances of it's non-proportional cousin AV getting approved in a referendum are reduced by the likelihood that both the Tories and Labour will be throwing massive resources into campaigning for a NO vote when it comes.

Touch wood that their efforts fail, and Tactical Voting can be a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:33 PM

I disagree,

I think the tories have been backed into a corner.

I bloody hope Clegg hasn't wasted his opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 May 10 - 09:06 PM

Well, it looks like a miracle that anything was accomplished given the lack of any constitution to spell out procedures.

Weird, I always thought the UK was a "constitutional monarchy." It's really hard to read the tea leaves from our side of the great pond.

Good luck in muddling through this one.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 12 May 10 - 01:52 AM

"Well, it looks like a miracle that anything was accomplished given the lack of any constitution to spell out procedures.

Weird, I always thought the UK was a "constitutional monarchy." It's really hard to read the tea leaves from our side of the great pond."

The UK does have a constitution but it is not in single rigid written down form as much as being based on recognised procedure and president. This makes it more complicated but also more flexible. The procedure is that the incumbant remains PM until someone is in a position to do the job - and it appears that has happened after only 5 days which is actually quite quick considering it was over the weekend too. Theoretically the monarch has the power to invite someone to try and form a govt but in practice the palace does everything in its power to keep completely out of politics so she is only going through symbolic motions. So yes we are a constitutional monarchy where the monarch is our symbolic Head of State. She is not a politician and her job is to stay out of politics and basically do as she is expected. The convention is also that the politicians act in a way not to risk the need of putting the monarch (who is after all unelected)in any potential situation where she becomes involved in politics in any way.
It may seem airy-fairy to folk used to a written document, and there are plenty folk in the UK who would like to see a written constitution, but the reason it is still as it is and not a great hot issue is because by and large it kind of works. If the monarch actually became involved in politics then the fact she is unelected would become a hot issue hence the reluctance of the palace to get involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:38 AM

The answer to the question is no. No, that's it.

Best wishes

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:48 AM

Glasses half empty???

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 May 10 - 05:52 AM

hi

In answer to the original OP question the answer must be YES !!

They have acheived a Deputy Prime Minister Post and at least 5 more in the Cabinet....

Yet they lost seats and perfomed far worse in expectation in the polls
than any other party.

Cameron must be very desperate....

Cheers

MikeL2 scratching my head in disbelief.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:11 AM

Les - How is the answer No if the Liberals are in Government?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:18 AM

As I think I said earlier - I believe they have won - Possibly the only ones1

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:23 AM

I don't think the Lib Dems have won.

They have sold themselves down the swannie and will never be trusted again. I beleive in the long term, they have done themselves a lot of damage.

Has Clegg done this for financial greed or power?

Cameron must have stayed in the barrel longer than Brown

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Stu
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:28 AM

The spider and the fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:39 AM

Lib Dems are in Government - but they are not in Power. Having being swallowed, they can now prepare to be digested. Perhaps "inside Government" might be a better way to express it...

Will you walk into my parlour?" said the Spider to the Fly,
'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to shew when you are there."
Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:16 AM

I don't believe the Lib Dems have 'won' either - apologies for length....

So Clegg is deputy leader - a role described accurately by Wiki as

"The office of the Deputy Prime Minister is not a permanent position. It exists only at the discretion of the Prime Minister.

The office is normally considered as a honorific title.

Unlike analogous offices in some other nations, including the United States Vice Presidency, a British Deputy Prime Minister possesses no special powers above those of his or her ministry.
He or she does not assume the duties and powers of the Prime Minister in the latter's absence or illness, such as the powers to seek a dissolution of parliament, appoint peers or brief the sovereign.
He does not automatically succeed the Prime Minister, should the latter be incapacitated or resign from the leadership of his or her political party"


Charles Kennedy told a fringe event at the Lib Dems' annual conference last year that the Tories' hostility to the European Union was "one of several straws that would break any camel's back".
"I just don't see how we could make common ground with a Cameron-Hague administration on the European issue," he said. "I mean pigs would fly."

At the same time when a hung parliament looked a distinct possibility a poll for the BBC revealed that fewer than one in five Lib Dem activists said that they would want to see Nick Clegg team up with the Conservatives in the event of a hung parliament after the next general election


And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?
Mark 8.36


Julian Glover English journalist and partner of former Conservative politician Matthew Parris sums up one view….

"Politics is about the pursuit of power"

"The onus is on Liberal Democrats. . They are close to it. They must take it."

He acknowledges that
"Clegg might have to accept that some Lib Dems, finding their party in bed with the Tories, would desert to Labour"
But argues that
"…the purifying departure of social democrats from a liberal party would be no bad thing"


From 1979 to 1988 David Alton (now a peer) was a Liberal MP and a Liberal Democrat MP until 1997; he served at various times as spokesman on the Environment, Home Affairs, Northern Ireland and as Chief Whip

He observes….

"First, the unedifying procrastination of the past few days has risked discrediting the concept of power-sharing.
The haggling vividly underlines the importance of going into an election with a clear idea of who will work with whom and on what basis.
Much of the electorate who took part in last week's election will have been left with a bad taste in their mouths – and whatever the merits of today's agreement it will not have been what millions of people thought that they were voting for last week.

Nick Clegg, however, has conveyed the impression or wanting to run with the hares and the hounds – and this has left many voters confused.
He has some way to go to convince that the Lib-Con deal is anything but a marriage of convenience.

Philosophically and ideologically the Lib Dems – since their merger with former Labour Party members – have largely abandoned classical Liberalism and opted for a social democratic paradigm of society

The prospect of a Liberal-Conservative axis genuinely never occurred to most of them, which is why it will lead to internal dissent, rupture and resignations"

He refers to previous disagreements over coalition parties which catastrophically ruptured the old Liberal Party and continues

"Liberal Democrats now embarking on their new electoral dalliance with the Conservatives need to recall these precedents and recognise that expediency -based on deal making alone – rather than a genuine meeting of minds on political principles – will end in division and tears."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:29 AM

Read the reasons why people are joining the Labour Party.

Why They Joined ...

Labour will be back in power by a landslide in 5 years.

Clegg has blown it.

It will dawn on him soon - if it hasn't already.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:31 AM

Lox have you no work to do??

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:37 AM

How about you Bonzo?

You seem to be very busy on the mudcat yourself ...

... I thought you were 'tending' to a client ...

I've just started a 5 and a half month holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:03 AM

Alan-

Thanks for the explanation of "constitutional monarchy" in the UK. The only "monarchs" we abide over here are butterflies but we do have some ferocious spiders, and other political "beasties" which are much too fierce to mention.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:05 AM

Client at the door - 6:43. Back online 7:31. Plenty enough time for a massage. Even with the 'special' treatments...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:07 AM

By the way Bonzo,

I may or may not be wasting my time on here, but I am engaged in discussing the thread topic, so at least there is a reason for me to be here.

You appear to be spending all your time on this thread with the sole purpose of criticizing people who are on this thread.

If you think contributing to this thread is such a waste of time, why are you doing it?

Did it escape your attention that as a participant on this thread, any 'clever' comments you may make about contributing to it refer to you too?

I think you should apply to be a mascot for the tories at the next session of parliament.

You could sit up in the Gallery and clap your hands together in your own special 'hit and miss' style, chanting "Kam-wun Kam-wun" while they discuss the detail of the european constitution.

The truth is Bonzo that you don't possess the wit to participate in any kind of meaningful discussion, much less run a multi million pound business, and the nearest you will ever get to 'playing Polo' will be trying to eat a mint sweet without soaking your bib in drool while your mum cleans you up and dresses you in some fresh underpants.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 May 10 - 09:29 AM

'The UK does have a constitution but it is not in single rigid written down form as much as being based on recognised procedure and president'

We don't have a president. Did you mean 'precedent'? Makes more sense, and less confusing to the Americans!   :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 10:16 AM

I am just watching the 2 love birds talking to the press.

My first thought is that Cameron is glaring at Clegg everytime he answers a question, as if to say "Don't you dare say anything out of place".

They are both intelligent people and I wonder how long it will be before they have one almighty bust up based on their own individual desires and determination for their individual parties.

How long before they go to the country?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 01:34 PM

I do like this LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKP89Bi8EFM&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:17 PM

"We don't have a president. Did you mean 'precedent'? Makes more sense, and less confusing to the Americans!   :-) :-) "

Aye thanks. Speling wis niver ma strang piont.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:00 PM

There is much gratuitous and unwarranted abuse here. The three leaders have risen to the occasion and I see no reason for so much cynicism. The Con-LibDem agreement suggests we may expect a programme arguably more progressive in terms of social justice and civil liberties than we would have had if Labour had won outright. Obviously the government will soon be spectacularly unpopular, as would have been the fate of any other government, because of the austerity that is about to hit us. But I expect this coalition to hold together for the full five-year term.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:01 PM

Myne neever! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:13 PM

This notion of a Conservative Liberal Democrat coalition must seem a bit confusing to our American members...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:26 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:40 PM

Listen to Mr Khan :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imTroiDQIog&feature=PlayList&p=4689701E5A5E4A1F&playnext_from=PL

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:41 PM

Listen to another Mr Khan :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRATVpAyY9A&feature=PlayList&p=4689701E5A5E4A1F&playnext_from=PL

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:42 PM

LOL another. The more I listen to Mr Khan, the more I laugh my socks off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gC9h12a2R8&feature=channel

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:44 PM

And one last one :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQxDO1lBJc&feature=related

ROTFLMAO

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 04:32 PM

Excellent Smiler.

A New Discovery for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 May 10 - 07:13 AM

L/Ds rat on their commitment over tuition fees here: -

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=411600&c=1

And this is from the Times - Murdoch's running dog!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Michael
Date: 14 May 10 - 07:06 AM

I'm just waiting for Mandelson to appear in the government.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 10 - 07:35 AM

Give us a break!
I hate that slimy twat almost as much as The Smiler hates Gordon Broon. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 14 May 10 - 08:58 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 15 May 10 - 12:44 PM

This notion of a Conservative Liberal Democrat coalition must seem a bit confusing to our American members

Confuses the hell out of me too!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 10 - 04:11 PM

Not too much has really changed since back in 1852 Dickens wrote in Bleak House:

""Lord Coodle would go out; Sir Thomas Doodle wouldn't come in; and there being no people to speak of in England except Coodle and Doodle the country has been without a Government"

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 May 10 - 04:54 PM

I have just finished reading the Guardian's commentary to day on the detailed text of the coalition agreement. I conclude that no, the L/Ds did not and cannot win. And nor can the people of the country.

Did you read the small print on the national insurance surcharge (planned to form part of deficit reduction, by New Labour)? The ConDoms are actually planning to relieve employers from their part of the contributions (by shuffling thresholds) but leave the burden on the employees.

And keep your eyes peeled for further "assessment" of the West Lothian question.

Bastard betrayers of their constituency.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 May 10 - 05:49 AM

I see a few of the LibDems are now coming out of the shadows and admitting that they abstained from voting.
Surely that sort of thing is going to make the situation worse, especially if any of the Cons do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 10 - 07:38 AM

Mmmmm Frank Field - I remember youuuuuuuuuuuuu!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:23 AM

Whatever else, seems like the bigs cuts are coming, then the cracks will start to appear!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:39 AM

"Whatever else, seems like the bigs cuts are coming, then the cracks will start to appear

What, do you mean the arse-cracks of all the mucky-toff-working-class-tory voters, as they bend over for the real Tory Toffs to give it to them up the arse?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:52 AM

ooh you are naughty Backwoodsman, but I like you :-)