BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)

Subject: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 May 10 - 10:45 AM

I told you so.

But I have to admire the spitefulness of swinging the axe most strongly at Baron Mandelson's former empire and the creativity of making it the feif of Vince Cable (one of the token L/Ds in the cabinet, when he really should have been chancellor in place of George, Yah!) - and then taking the axe to it.

Meanwhile, while George Yah! cuts things that benefit the less well off, Boris Bloody Stupid Johnson relieves Kensington and Chelsea of congestion duty at a cost of umpteen million. Er - who is he helping there? The residents of Kensington and Chelsea. And are they likely to be rich or poor?

And in his spare time he revives plans for Boris Island. After all, the people who will have the planes circling overhead and polluting thier land aren't the rich from Kensington and CHelsea are they?

Oh, and while we are at it, the help for the economy, to avoid a double-dip recession, is focussed on apprenticeships. Well, I suppose the rich have to have someone trained as servants, don't they?

Tumbrils at the ready please.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 May 10 - 11:26 AM

Bozo and Don will be along in a minute, trousers round their ankles, to explain why being given it up the butt by the toffs is good for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 25 May 10 - 12:24 PM

No big surprises then!
Post office is making a good profit, so they are going to let rich people pocket it all while taxpayers pay the cost of running it. That is really going to dig us out of budget deficits.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 May 10 - 01:13 PM

Post Office facts

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 May 10 - 01:38 PM

Are you holding your breath, Fluter? I will give credit if and when it is due - as on ID cards and HIPS so far. But I don't see Cameron wanting to restrain Israel now he is in power, and if Obama could not do it I don't give much for Cameron's chances. Meanwhile Clegg (-er - hang on - what does Clegg have the power to do?)

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 May 10 - 03:08 PM

By the way, Fluter, I think you'll find that Cameron is a member of "conservative Friends of Israel". I do hope you aren't holding your breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 May 10 - 05:20 AM

""Bozo and Don will be along in a minute, trousers round their ankles, to explain why being given it up the butt by the toffs is good for us.""

Ignorant twat! You expect us to respect your views when you post that kind of crap?

Obviously the left wing don't have any fucking manners, so no point in talking to them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Lox
Date: 26 May 10 - 05:58 AM

Backwoodsman,

I have to protest at the way you have lumnped Don and Bozo in together like that.

Don may not share my view on some issues, but he engages honestly and contributes in a meaningful and valuable way.

I would like to have the choice to engage with him on this subject if I so choose, but comments like yours above, made before the thread has even got off the ground, make this impossible as he is now unlikely to feel like continuing.

There is no comparison between the way Don and Bozo post and I think it could be useful and considerate if you could retract your comment.


On the subject of cuts - I note with sadness that 10,000 university places have been cut.

I also note that the financial sector, who we bailed out when they nearly destroyed our economy, are flying high at unprecedented levels of profit.


I cannot find even the most outlandish tenuous justification for this disparity.

Why aren't the banks paying us back?

Why aren't they helping?

Couldn't they be compelled to step in and assist where essential public srvices and rights like education are suffering?

It was their mistakes, their mismanagement and their credit crunch which led to this mess.


The cuts are not necessary.

All you need is to compel the financial sector to show its gratitude to us for helping them out of their mess, by contributing to save our universities.

At Middlesex University they are closing the philosophy department.

Vocational degrees are taking over from academic degrees.

Philosophy is the cornerstone of western academia.

It very sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 May 10 - 06:14 AM

"Philosophy is the cornerstone of western academia.
It very sad."

Aye, why not just eliminate thinking from education altogether and stick to the regurgitation of data?

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 May 10 - 07:28 AM

They couldn't make 'A' Levels any easier than they are now. That's why the universities [sic] need more funding.
Mind you, one week it's Wallsend Nursery School, and the next, it's Newcastle New University, and wants full funding.
Bloody lunacy!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 May 10 - 07:37 AM

Middlesex University - a former Polytechnic!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 May 10 - 08:52 AM

"There is no comparison between the way Don and Bozo post and I think it could be useful and considerate if you could retract your comment"

On reflection, Lox, you have a valid point. There's a considerable difference between their posting styles.

However, I won't actually retract it, as I believe the Tories, aided and abetted by their new-found Lib-Dem running-dog lackeys, are already starting to show their true colours, and starting to shaft the same people they always shaft, their own middle- and working-class (for want of a better term) supporters.

Where, for instance, is it more likely that parents will organise and open their own schools outside the state-system, partly funded by our money - on an inner-city sink-estate, or in some smart stock-broker belt area?

Who will be hit hardest by any reduction in University places - those whose parents can afford to pay for the very best in education, or the kid whose parents are on the dole and who have struggled just to keep their kids fed and clothed?.

If the widely-predicted double-dip recession occurs as a result of their cuts, who will suffer most in the run of job-losses that follows - highy paid and obscenely-bonussed bankers and stockbrokers or, for instance, modestly-paid council-workers.

And in those three examples, who are the natural supporters and paymasters of the Conservative Party, and who aren't?

And that's just for starters.

So I don't retract my statement in terms of its sentiment. However I will amend it - and say that they will be along soon to tell us why it's so good being a turkey at Christmas.

And Don, if you're inclined to listen (and I don't give a FF if you're not), I've told you before, I'm not a Leftie. I don't vote Labour, period. (Mind you, after Clegg's Lib-Dem sell-out, I just might be tempted to next time). I don't believe in the politics of left-wing envy, nor of right-wing selfishness and greed. I believe in the politics of the centre, of fairness for all, irrespective of class or creed - something we've seldom, if ever, had. Something we were promised at the election, but which clearly ain't gonna happen now that Cameron, by whatever means, managed to bewitch Clegg.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Royston
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:18 AM

@Fluter

I agree with Richard. After the recent years of having Jewish foreign secretaries, senior officers of state and a prime minister that spent his tenure endlessly fellating a blood-thirsty Christian-fundementalist (from the "bring on judgement day by getting the jews and the arabs to precipitate a bloodbath" bible-school) US President, there are no grounds to expect anything better from the Con-Dem Nation.

Clegg neither values nor believes genuinely in anything of principle. He's just Dave's dormitory-fag. Show me on piece of uniquely Limp-Dem empty promise that made it into the Queen's speech! The whole tawdry yellow lot of them are just sell-outs and traitors.

The Conservatives are just the same bunch of scandalous creatures that they always were and ever will be. Israel is good for (their) business(es) and when all's said and done, that's all that matters to a Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Lox
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:24 AM

"Middlesex University - a former Polytechnic!!!!!"

Your point is?

... I can make a pretty good guess - but you never know - I might be surprised ...

... not that it makes that much difference to Bozo as it is very apparent that he has never seen the inside of either of the above.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Stu
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:52 AM

Vince Cable was on Newsnight earlier in the week and looked like he didn't believe a thing he was saying. The first time I've seen him and thought "Liar". Truth is, the Tories do not understand communities, society or the needs of us proles down here in the muck and shit. As for the Lib-Dems, they're in the process or making themselves unelectable for a generation.

Here comes the ConDem nation we've all been dreading.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 May 10 - 11:48 AM

"we've all" - not quite all, maybe 5 or so of you talking among yourselves here.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Lox
Date: 26 May 10 - 12:07 PM

For the Record, Middlesex has an extremely good reputation and a superb research history.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 May 10 - 12:14 PM

"However, I won't actually retract it, as I believe the Tories, aided and abetted by their new-found Lib-Dem running-dog lackeys, are already starting to show their true colours, and starting to shaft the same people they always shaft, their own middle- and working-class (for want of a better term) supporters."

Oh how we laughed. It proves what I have stated previously, that people would rather be shafted by someone they voted for, than by someone they voted against.

Every political party does it, New Labour have pooped on their friends and supporters, just as much as any other party.

The Socialist Utopia, doesn't exist, and especially not in Socialist countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 May 10 - 03:46 PM

Which socialist countries would those be?

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 May 10 - 06:44 AM

I'm just wondering how the selling of second homes abroad will be policed by HM Revenue & Customs - a tall order I should think when they don't even employ enough staff to answer the phone!!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 May 10 - 01:50 PM

I suspect, Bonzo, that if there is an obligation to declare the sale then if a seller got caught he could be charged as "being a common cheat" which enables the revenue to confiscate the entire proceeds of sale and carries a theoretical heavy gaol sentence and I can't offhand remember whether the maximum is ten years or life. I know a banjomaker who was involved in carousel fraud and failed to disclose his assetts and was so charged, and went down for if my memory serves me a three-stretch.

This might dissuade people from committing tax offences.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 May 10 - 02:04 PM

I'm not sure that even an obligation to declare the sale would persuade some of the specimens you see arriving at Alicante Airport, unless there is information sharing with the UK. Perhaps this has already been wrapped up in existing agreements with overseas banks to disclose large movements of funds in and out of accounts. Mmmmm still not easy to police when there are cash transactions!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 May 10 - 05:31 PM

Don't they fly into Malaga any more?

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 May 10 - 02:49 AM

Well yes they do of course, only been through there twice, we are more used to Playa San Juan near Alicante, which is the stopping off point for gated Brit strongholds a few Km along the coast!

I also gather that chaps in the oil industry who are non resident for tax purposes in the UK might be in for a shock.

It may well be that cash is your best friend in future!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 28 May 10 - 04:37 AM

>>Here comes the ConDem nation we've all been dreading. <<

No Jack. That is your opinion. Do not include me in your hatred to Con/LibDem

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Stu
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:23 AM

"Do not include me in your hatred to Con/LibDem"

Hatred? Seems a tad strong. My opinion's based on personal experience of the Tory party and considered opinion rather than some irrational emotional reaction (mind you, scared would be the reaction I would attribute - I remember previous Tory governments only too well).

Noce to see the ConDemmed tried to influence who was going to be on the Question Time panel last night as they were scared of Alistair Campbell - remarkable. Even more remarkable was the fact the panel was made up of one of the most right-wing there's been for years and Campbell was essentially the lone voice of the centre (certainly not the left).

So much for engaging the public in the new politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 28 May 10 - 05:27 AM

Shall we say dislike then!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 May 10 - 06:24 AM

Let's hope that our pension funds are not also hit.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 May 10 - 07:11 PM

Too late Bonzo.

Gordon Brown had five billion pounds out of them years ago.

What makes me laugh, is that those who praised New Labour for making Labour electable in 1997, knowing how much the party had changed in five years from losing to John Major, still can't get their heads around the idea that thirteen years might have seen changes in the other side.

Have they really got their heads so firmly stuck up their arses that they don't know the world has moved on?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 May 10 - 02:27 AM

I see nothing yet to cause me to suppose the existence of any real changes in core conservative beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 10 - 03:28 AM

I see nothing yet to cause me to suppose the existence of any real changes in core conservative beliefs

Jolly good!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:55 AM

""I see nothing yet to cause me to suppose the existence of any real changes in core conservative beliefs.""

My point precisely.

When Tony B Liar took office, we waited for some considerable time, before concluding that his promises were all hot air.

You make your "informed and definitive" judgement after seventeen whole days, or to be more accurate, you are so consumed with personal hatred for anybody who has wealth and education (toffs) that you don't feel the need to use judgement, thought, or logic. You react as I said above "like Pavlov's dogs at the sound of a bell.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Lox
Date: 30 May 10 - 07:46 AM

Don,

I have formed the judgement that change has been negligable amongst the tories in the last 13 years on the basis of the fact that the key cabinet posts are all occupied by the old guard.

Clarke, Hague, Letwin, Duncan Smith - to name 4

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 10 - 10:18 AM

Everyone has a view, the difference being that if we don't hold yours, you cannot sleep at night, whereas we accept that folks are entitled to hold a different view!!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 May 10 - 03:00 PM

""Clarke, Hague, Letwin, Duncan Smith - to name 4""

Two thirds of labour positions were held by the old guard under Blair, but they still changed the way they functioned in the new circumstances.

Yet, knowing this, you feel qualified to predict the actions and intentions of the Tory "Old Guard", simply on the basis that they are not New Labour, and therefor cannot ever change.

Look again at the illogic of that POV.

Only with the passage of time, and the accumulated knowledge of what happens during that time, will you be justified in making the claims you so glibly spout after only seventeen days of the new government.

I don't believe that any of you have greater powers of telepathy or clairvoyance than I.

Which is to say none at all.

You don't believe they will, or can, change. That is an opinion, not a fact, and it carries no greater weight than my opinion that they can, and will.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 May 10 - 04:09 PM

Thanks Don, but I have an education. It wasn't an indoctrination in the right of the rich to oppress the poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:00 PM

I think its time to Re Popularise that lovely Protest song written by a Bank Manager (Keith Marsden) . Lets all have a rousing chorus of "Idlers and Skivers" http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID-8730

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 May 10 - 06:03 PM

Thanks Don, but I have an education. It wasn't an indoctrination in the right of the rich to oppress the poor.

Oh get a life please.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:44 PM

Don,

I am left wing. Please can you tell me how you arrived at the conclusion that I do not have any manners?

Oh, by the way, please note I refrain from the use of expletives.

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:19 AM

Ah - Bonzo, it seems you are the one who needs an education. Life does not belong to the rich.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:28 AM

""I am left wing. Please can you tell me how you arrived at the conclusion that I do not have any manners?""

SPB, at the time that comment was made, it was obviously directed at a very specific group of left wingers, who do not believe that I have a right to an opinion unless it co-incides with their political beliefs.

A swift glance through the posts on this thread will bear out my comment that they have no manners, and no belief in the democratic rights for others which they claim for themselves.

While I have made some very strong (and, I believe justified) comments about politicians, I have, until personally attacked, refrained from personal attack upon them.

You were not part of that vilification, and my comments on it were emphatically not applied to you, or to any other non-participant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 03:17 PM

Don, your "right" to an opinion does not include a "right" not to be derided for it, any more than such a "right" could exist for the usual grunts. You have in the past I think suggested that benefits claimants eg OAPs should get free toothcare - and I agree that they should - but the Con-Doms have already declared war on benefit recipients although the "quiet man" (could it be that he lost his voice rather than deabte in Parliament) seems very short on details other than to announce that he wants those on benefits to have an incentive to get back to work. He has not yet (AFAIK) ruled out the rules of less eligibility, and AFAIK his party has set its face against a living wage. We must brace ourselves, for it is coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:38 AM

"Ah - Bonzo, it seems you are the one who needs an education. Life does not belong to the rich."

Define rich

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:39 AM

Define Socialism

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 08:01 AM

I think they should!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: sapper82
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:05 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie - PM
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 07:39 AM

Define Socialism


Socialism is what the Socialist says it is and, being the perfect system it can never, were it to be implimented, fail.

Hence those systems calling themselves "socialist," such as the USSR etc. that did fail, could not have been truely socialist in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:04 PM

"Socialism is what the Socialist says it is and, being the perfect system it can never, were it to be implimented, fail.

Hence those systems calling themselves "socialist," such as the USSR etc. that did fail, could not have been truely socialist in the first place. "

Sums up very well the joke that it is!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:15 AM

Unlike the "capitalist" system which, of course, has never let us down :)

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:19 AM

Heres a short definition.

Socialism is a political philosophy that encompasses various theories of economic organization based on either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:47 AM

You mean like The Coal Board, and the Gas Board, or the Post Office. All publicly owned, all strike proane, all dead or dying?

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 12:02 PM

It was, of course, Bloody Thatcher and her cohorts who deliberately killed off the British coal and steel industries. The railways, however, are doing splendidly under private ownership - unless you actually want to travel on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 12:07 PM

Ah, the good old days, before nationalisation - where workers were working for compnay tokens which they used to pay inflated prices for adulterated produce from company stores. Where the owners of the means of production had power of life and death of workers.

Out of interest, when did you last make a free directory enquiries call?

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 04:10 PM

Bloody thatcher indeed, hideous woman and so is her daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Con-Doms' Axe (UK politics)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

Socialist's theme tune