Learning to finger pick

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 01:40 PM

BK, one of the things that you won't clearly see from a distance is that Bluegrass mandolin players are often only sounding 3 strings out of 4 in their chords. Remember, when not playing lead the mandolin's job is to be a sort of "snare drum" punching out an off-beat rhythm. Try this:

index on 3rd string, 2nd fret. Middle finger on 2nd string, 3rd fret. Ring finger on 4th string at 5th fret. It's a C chord, right? Now move those 3 fingers higher by 2 frets and DAMP OUT the 1st string with the remaining part of your middle finger. That's the way a lot of us play a bluegrass rhythm "D" chord. Your pick stroke should be hard and loud. Don't go for sustain in this kind of music. Move it up again 2 frets..that's a bluegrass "E" chord. One more fret and it's "F".

There's lot's more, but that's a start.

As far as finger-picked (not bluegrass) banjo. Still gotta learn your rolls. (a series of repeated arpeggios) Tune it to "G" and play T-3, I-2, T-5, M-1...a thousand times. And then go to...T-4, I-2, T-5, M-1.
When you can actually carry on a conversation WHILE playing those rolls smoothly, you've got it! Learning tunes will be a piece of cake then. My unshakable rule in guitar, banjo, mandolin, dulcimer, dobro etc. is "You must be able to do the right hand stuff without thinking, before you tackle anything even remotely complex with the left." That's my basic reason for not being a fan of tableture for beginners. It only teaches you notes for one specific song at a time. Learn the right hand first, and you'll SWING!!

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 01:44 PM

Good stuff Jo. By the way have you ever tried the "third hand capo"? Allows you to do some instant modal chords. I love little gizmos!

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Dani
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 02:29 PM

Yes, Yes, Rick! You've given me hope. I'm going to tune up now and meet y'all in the other thread.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Aug 99 - 02:58 PM

More pickin' here: Rick's Pickin' tips. Questions & Answers

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 02:22 AM

This pattern is from Jerry Silverman's Learning the Folk Guitar part two (he calls it, as I remember, a Travis pattern). Anyway, it's a pretty useful, fairly easy syncopated pattern (I've used it on autoharp as well as guitar) The numbers indicate the downbeats in 4/4 time, and the "and" is, of course, an up beat:

1--Thumb(bass string) and ring finger (1st string) pinch

2--Index and middle finger pick 2nd and 3rd strings.

3--Thumb picks bass string
and--ring finger picks 1st string
4--index and middle fingers pick 2nd and 3rd strings.

Repeat. Of course, for melody's sake, the ring finger can move down to the 2nd string and the index and middle to the 3rd and 4th strings, or variations.


Another pattern I find useful for ballads is T-I-M-I-R-M-I-M- which I often alternate with T-I-MR-I-T-I-MR-I- (both eight-to-the-bar, of course)


And finally, I also use three finger banjo rolls on guitar, such as: T-I-M-T-I-M-T-I- and T-M-T-I-M-T-I-M- and even I-h-I-h-M-T-I-M- (h of course means hammer). --seed

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 10:31 AM

Does anyone have a nice, not too complex pattern for a 3/4 time song? The boring pattern is thumb, 3 finger up strum twice, and so on. Better?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 10:59 AM

Hi Peter, go to the "tips" thread and I'll give you a good 'un.

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: j0_77
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:10 AM

Finger Picking 3/4. T=Thumb
1= ist finger
2= 2nd finger

Chord G

T (G) 1 2 1 (On any treble strings)
T (D) repeat finger pattern.
That should do it.

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: j0_77
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 11:15 AM

oooopppppsss Finger patterns - T 1212 repeat T (change bass string) 1212

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 05:30 PM

or T-I-MR-I-MR-I- or a syncopated version T-I-MR-o-MR-I- with o meaning nothing (not a rest, as the strings are still vibrating--just nothing picked).

Oh, and here's a calypso pattern--I learned it from Pete Seeger's classic banjo book, but it works beautifully on guitar, as well: T-I-M-TR-o-I-TR-I- (note the silent third downbeat: the rhythm is 1-2-3-4-o-6-7-8, and the TR is, of course, a pinch: thumb and ring finger). --seed

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 05:31 PM

Thanks jo77 and seed. pick of the litter!
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: GUEST,Pops
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:57 PM

Hi all - New to fingerpicking style - been playing since I was a kid - I use the word playing rather loosely - ( I-IV-V STUFF) - know a little bit of everything about guitar playing - but don't really play well - (for my own amusement- don't take much) ANYWAY - - I'm seeking some good information on learning to play in the fingerstyle manner - I've tryed a lot of different approaches with "little to no success" My PRIMARY problem is the same as everyone beginning this method I guess - My thumb wants to follow my fingers and my fingers want to follow my thumb - I can play tunes using either one - BUT - when I attempt to put them together - BOOM - all is lost - I have been told recently to practice ONLY WITH THE THUMB - (alternating bass patterns) and EVENTUALLY - when I add melody lines in with it - the thumb will continue its thing - (hard to believe) Others say to practice from the beginning using both the thumb and the fingers - no matter how slow ???? Plain and simple - What's is the best way to train the thumb and fingers to do their independent thing - I'm sure somebody out there can HELP ME - HELP ME - HELP ME - I have a lot of patience and really love music - so you can bet I'll stick to a training method that is offered to me. Thanking all in advance -

                              Fingerpicker Want-a-be
                                     Pops

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: GUEST,Dub Martin
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:43 AM

Pops, Here's something that may help. I use this with students sometimes. Save this MP3 example on you hard disk and use it as something to imitate. The file contains four short examples all played while holding a standard E chord. I recommend covering the 4th and 5th strings with your middle finger so your ring finger and pinky are free to catch melody notes but it can also be done using three fingers for the E chord and catching the melody note using only the pinky.

The first example is the melody which you'll pick using only your index finger. It will be obvious where the notes are found.

The second example is just the alternating octave bass that your thumb will play. This works best when a thumb pick is used but if you're used to using a bare thumb, go ahead but use the side of your thumb, not the tip.

The third example combines the thumb and the melody with the melody played on the beat. At each beat, you're either just playing a bass note (thumb) or you're playing a bass note and melody note together as a pinch. Practicing this example will help you separate your thumb from your finger(s) and learn to think of them and use them independently.

The final example contains (I think) exactly the same notes as the previous example except the index finger—the melody—leads the rhythm slightly.

And of course the whole thing will sound better if you also apply light palm muting to the three bass strings as you play.

Take each step slowly and be sure you've got each one down before practicing the next one.

Good luck,

Dub

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:17 AM

Hey Pops (great name, by the way),

Different folks have different learning styles. I was never able to "just" start playing a steady bass with my thumb and simultaneously start picking a melody with my fingers. I had to learn fingerpicking *patterns*, then progress to fingerpicking *pieces* learned step-by-step, by rote, from tablature. (This was before the days of videotapes and DVDs.) Of course, I was able to work some simple embellishments into the pattern-picking relatively soon (such as "walking" the bass line at a chord change), but my ability to pick in a relatively "free" manner didn't come until after a lot of practice playing fairly strict patterns -- single-measure patterns at first, song-length ones later.

I think it's important for the repetitive patterns you play to include "pinches" (thumb and a finger playing simultaneously) as well as alternations between thumb and finger(s). You'll need to be able to do both as you progress.

You certainly should have read all the older posts to this thread, of course, which include a lot of good advice and insights.

I recently wrote at length on this topic in a thread on "Right-Hand Technique" -- you might be interested in this. Indeed, reading the entire thread would be worth your while.

(Please note that I made a mistake when trying to include tablature in my post -- check five posts down for my correction/clarification.)

Subject: RE: Help: Learning to finger pick
From: GUEST,Pops
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 09:56 PM

Thanks for the help - I was not able to see the MP3 (or hear it) It kept coming up as an error page - I'll give all the suggestions a good try - Thanks again all -

Subject: RE: Learning to finger pick
From: artimus
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:44 PM

Contrary to popular belief, I have found that a good fingerstyle is the responsibility of both the right and left hand. An alteration in the method used by one will affect the style of the other. To really get the right hand performing try challenging it with a change of technique in the left hand.
Play the 3 notes of a chord up he neck on one sring with the thumb. Construct partials rather than using full 6 string chords. This is left hand technique that will put new demands upon the right hand.
For those of you who have used method and technique books and are still not happy with the results, I reccommend designing your own exercises based upon the ones you have already learned.
Also I suggest you watch guitar players playing. This is easy to do where there are lots of good fingerstyle players to view. But even if there are none, I say that you should closely observe how your own fingers and hands are moving. You can do this by drastically slowing down everything you play and look at the details of the motions you are using. Use a metronome and after you know what speed you are playing at reset the tempo down a few notches and move progressively down through slower and slower tempos. And look at every detail of what you are doing.
Study your own technique. You will then notice that you are going the long way when there are shortcuts to get to the same place. You can teach yourself this way even if there are no good players around to learn from.
Here's a song. Nothing fantastic. It's not a demonstration of spectacular fingestyle. Just a song. John Randolph

Subject: RE: Learning to finger pick
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 01:22 AM

There are lots of different ways to fingerpick, and part of the problem is just getting it straight which one you are doing--Mostly, it is simple stuff, mastered by repetition--Most important is to move a little bit at a time, and get one thing worked out before you try to move on--

Dub Martin threw out enough stuff in one paragraph to keep you busy for a couple years--good stuff, though--

I would start you out learning to keep a simple 4/4 tempo by playing Thumb-Index finger-Middle Finger-Ring finger on a G chord---one string on each count, with the thumb playing on the low E string, the Index gets the G string, the middle gets the B and the ring gets the high e--

Do it til your bored and then do it some more--don't try to change chords or add anything to it until it is more natural to do it than not to do it--Don't worry about how long it takes to get it right--once you've got it, you'll be as good at it as anybody--

Subject: RE: Learning to finger pick
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 04:17 AM

One important part of right hand technique that often is missed...

Your thumb should aim past your index finger as if you are tightening a wing-nut, or the thumb and fingers will 'crash'. The same technique applies to the harp, too.

Your wrist needs to be slightly 'higher' above the strings than you think is going to be comfortable, or your fingers will tend to 'clench' like a fist - they need to be only slightly curved.

When teaching children I get them to hold a small apple or orange in the palm of their right hand to demonstrate the correct finger and thumb shapes and wrist position... daft idea, but children respond better to the ridiculous!!

Subject: RE: Learning to finger pick
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 08:55 AM

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