BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 02:18 AM

Probably not of significance to collectors here, but on the chance that it might have an effect:

Fire destroys landmark former Ill. clock factory

2 teens are charged with setting the blaze

Associated Press
1/1/2012

PERU, Ill. — A fire at a massive former clock factory that police say was deliberately lit provided an eerie backdrop for a northern Illinois city's New Year's celebrations, and despite the efforts of firefighters from throughout the area, the city landmark was destroyed.

The blaze at the former Westclox Co. clock complex, which covers a two-by-four-block span of downtown Peru, began around the time people were counting down the last seconds of 2011, Gary Eccles, an engineer with the city's fire department, told The Associated Press. By 11 a.m. Sunday, the fire was burning itself out but had destroyed the building and caused it to cave in on itself, he said.

Police Chief Doug Bernabei said at a news conference Sunday that two teenage boys, a 15-year-old from Peru and a 17-year-old from La Salle, were charged with aggravated arson. The older teen, who's being charged as an adult, appeared in court Sunday and a judge set his bond at $250,000, according to the News Tribune.

LaSalle County State's Attorney Brian Towne said the two teens entered the building, poured gas from a can they found there onto a boat stored inside, set it on fire and then left, the newspaper reported. Towne said a tip that an anonymous caller gave Peru police led officers to the two suspects.

The fire, which caused propane tanks to explode, prompted a mandatory evacuation of homes near the complex. But Eccles said that by 11 a.m., nearly everyone was allowed to return home. Those who weren't were being kept out because the smoke from the fire was blowing directly at their homes.

The building, a landmark in the city that once housed Westclox Co.'s clock and watch-making operations decades ago, currently houses several small businesses, including a salon, a photo business, a lab and others, the newspaper reported.

Westclox built 44 structures at the complex from 1910 until 1956, then closed in 1980. A group of investors bought the building and sold it to developers in 2006, who said they planned to convert it into a retail and convention center while maintaining its history integrity.

The National Park Service in 2007 deemed the building eligible for the National Registry of Historic Places "because of its significant contributions to the social and economic development of Peru and the nation," the newspaper reported.

© 2012 The Associated Press.

I omitted a couple of paragraphs for brevity here, but they were mostly "local color."

So far as I'm aware, Westclock made mostly "utility grade" clocks that wouldn't be of much interest to collectors but might be to "accumulators" who collect almost anything; but I'm not really familiar with much clock history.

According to the story, any Westclock records probably had been removed some time ago, so even loss of history of their products wasn't likely to have been affected.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 01:01 AM

I am thrilled, just found a Hamilton 936 in hunter case. Those things are super rare and the holy grails of Hamilton collectors. They are the ones that started it all .. been looking for years and stumbled across it. The movements were never marked. You have to know the insides and the serial number. Mine has a very low number ... gotta get it repaired. Completely thrilled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 02:28 PM

Yours is a more modern version. The sixth position is actually stem down. That means no matter what position it will maintain accuracy. The five positions does not test for the stem down. That came about in more modern watches. You have a treasure as it was your granddads. You can pass it on generation after generation. That is so wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:55 AM

Right, Dan. I don't understand all the lingo but "6 positions" is engraved on the inside works. Also "CASED AND TIMED BY ELGIN NATIONAL WATCH CO." is engraved on the inside of the back plate.

Enjoy your wonderful gift. Mine is a great way for me to remember my dear old grandfather.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 12:36 AM

gilly

your grandad's is an engineering marvel, it was adjusted 6 positions and one of the most sought after watches of its day. The Vanguard is just a beautiful watch. My 1908 version is adjusted 5 positions.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:29 PM

I have the same model Waltham, Dan, but mine's from 1936. Inherited from my grandfather who was a station operator and telegrapher on the WP, SP and a number of local lines in Texas. It's in excellent condition and is something to marvel at.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:30 PM

This watch hobby is fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 04:20 PM

Kids found me a 23 Jeweled 1908 Waltham Vanguard RR Watch for Christmas. Case is a little worn, could use cleaning but it is a dandy. Runs great and keeps great time but I can see that the oil is a bit dark. Going to take it to my Amish friend for service. Very cool been looking for one of them .. hard to find at a decent price.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 07:01 AM

Old Seth was right on the dot this morning.Looks like I stumbled on a winner. Thanks again, Dan, your input is very helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 08:59 PM

Frogprince, yes, we are still winding on. We might get "Ticked off" if you ...hell I can't say it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 06:14 PM

Kendall made a great buy, 17 Jeweled sidewinder for 30 bucks anytime ... good eye captain
Nice Seth Thomas ... nice case ... clean dial ... keeps time ... good job.

I just had the Amish guy fix my roller Jewel on one of my three 992B's. Mahlon did it for me clean it and oiled it and said Merry Christmas ...and charged me nothing.
he is a good friend. After 2 solid weeks of running ... it is dead nuts on with my computer ... hasn't lost anything ... amazing little machines. I also got my Hampden 21J Special Railway cleaned and oiled. At size 18 it is big and chunky but keeps pace with my Hamilton's in terms of accuracy. Back in 1901 Hampdens were more expensive than the Hamilton's ... for some reason collectors seem to pass by these superb watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 04:34 PM

We're doing time Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 04:27 PM

Good grief, are you guys still winding on...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

I have one with a Faheys gold filled case, and an Omega movement, keeps great time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 02:30 PM

I just ran across a rare one; a Seth Thomas sidewinder. It runs, keeps time and it was only $30.00. Dan said "Grab it." I don't question Dan.

This one is strange, the stem is at the 6 o'clock position. All the others are at 12 or 3.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:43 PM

I can't thank you enough, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:06 PM

Holy Cow
I got the BW Raymond 21J back from Mahlon ... the missing regulator he replaced with meantime screws as was required on Canadian RR watches to regulate them ... A work of art, I gave him a turd he gave me back a perfect watch amazing.

Kendall
I picked up your watch, will mail it tomorrow morning .. he did some amazing work on it. Keeps RR time

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 06:18 PM

I nailed an original railway special porcelain dial for the steel cased one that i got. I know it should only have the melamine dial but if the intention is full time carry which it is, the porcelain will hold up better even though in 1952 it is not technically correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

Good-looking 992B factory dial 24hr CP525, gf case made by Star for Hamilton- Ebay 270 842 093 771. Will be gone in 2 hr, but the pictures may remain for a while.
A good looking steel case- 140 628174171- This one may go for a bargain price.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 12:01 PM

Q
I talked to Kent on the forum, he verified the serial number and case serial number as a match .. your info was right on. I was wrong as to the date of the watch, it is 1952

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 11:29 AM

Q
just got your reading material .. Oh my gosh how priceless is this info. Amazing stuff .. I will be reading all night

Thank you my dear friend

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 08:48 AM

Thanks Q, send bill to Kendall LOL
wow good info.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

I think I have found it.

1945-194?- white metal. This is not a good descriptive.
1949- Nickel-chrome case by Keystone.
1950- Non-magnetic stainless steel, made by Star Watch Co.; The No. 15 case used by Hamilton as an economy model, priced at $71.50.
Used until production ceased.

See- http://www.watchdoctor.biz/pocket.php.

Data from catalogues sent to Hamilton wholesalers, thus fairly reliable.

A lot of information can be found by putting various entries in google.
Took me 2 hours to get to this data. I will post my bill for this service after I figure all the add-ons.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 04:37 PM

Found a statement that the steel case watches were sold mainly to firemen and engineers and others who could subject the watch to abuse on the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 04:34 PM

Stainless case 992B- All I have found so far is that latterly Hamilton sold their watches in a variety of cases, 10K, 14K and stainless steel. No date found so far for introduction of stainless steel.
My 992B has a factory dial, 525 CP* 24 hour Black, in melamine (melamine introduced in 1948 and on all by 1950).
*CP = Canadian Pacific, but the watch was also used by Canadian National and other RRs. in Canada.

My case is model 7, a 10K gold filled made by Fortune of Canada. (Fortune made cases for factory watches, as well as for recasing watches by jewelers).

I did find that a few 992B movements were sold to jewelers for casing to the customer's wishes.

I also found that 525,000 992B watches were made and sold, continuing up to the closure of the factory.
This makes the 992B one of the most popular of all precision watches.

I will keep looking for the date of introduction of the steel case.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 09:59 AM

One minute a month, RR time is 30 sec a WEEK ... that is incredible but that is what my friend Malohn does to a watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 08:19 AM

I don't remember when we started this game but my number 16 Elgin has lost one minute in about a month?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:15 PM

Frank
do you remember when the steel cases came out on them. Seems to me that this maybe re-cased because I thought they came out in the late 50's and not in the 40's but I could be wrong .. You have forgotten more about great old watches then I will ever learn for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:09 PM

Hey Q
you won't believe this one, guy offered me this one for 110 bucks. I jumped on it. 1948 Steel cased 992B, going to get it cleaned and give it to my son in law for xmas. I got him into old pocket watches also. It needs cleaned bad. Some minor cracks on the mesoline dial but pretty sweet all in all

steel 992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 03:06 PM

I'd wind it up and feel of it every day. No, wait,that's what wives are for.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 01:14 PM

Jeez, if I had a 992 b I'd never neglect it. sniff.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:03 PM

Its not just you Q .. heck I forget to wind also :-) I had a docs appointment at 10 and my illinois was saying it was 8:30 at a stop
LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:45 PM

olddude, sorry to jump ship. I like my 992B, but I have a very thin Movado quartz, so light I forget that I am wearing it, and that will continue to be my everyday timekeeper.
I am forgetful in my old age, and I would have to hire someone to wind the watch everyday.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:54 PM

Ok for those who have them, lets start carrying our 992B's everyday. It is a shame not to use them daily since they are so much part of our RR history. I know you are going to say the mesoline dials. But what the heck they were made for use ... how about it Q are you in. We can compare times periodically.

I been switching off on watches everyday ... going to just use one of my 992B's everyday from now on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:35 PM

and he replace the dial (face)with an original on my 21 Jeweled Illinois for me .. and wouldn't let me pay him .. now my Illinois is perfect in everyway

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:29 PM

So I take my recently purchased 21 Jeweled BW Raymond over to Malhon for repair. He says, ahhh Dan tell me again why you bought this ..
lets see, broken Jewel, broken regulator, broken balance stem and wheel, broken crown ... I said, cause I know a master watch maker and you are use to me bringing you turds .. fix it for me at the first cousin price .. He laughs and says I will completely restore it .. first cousin price .. LOL

When he is done it will run like the day it left the factory and under 100 bucks for repair

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 07:54 PM

500. ok

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 02:36 PM

Kendall drop it in the mail this week if you can. I have to take my BW Raymond over to get fixed and I will bring yours. He lives 45 miles from me so I don't want to make two trips ok

Thanks Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Oct 11 - 12:54 PM

It maybe just the stem needs reset ... a five minute job. Send it to me I will have it fixed for you

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 07:25 PM

My 18 Elgin is acting up, it stopped and now I can't reset the hands. The stem won't turn. Sounds serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:58 PM

been testing the 21 jeweled hampden special RR. a week now 4 sec off wow great watch 1907 size 18. just bought a bw raymond 21 jeweled 1947. bad balance staff, got it cheap. gotta have the amish guy fix it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 03:11 PM

It was 5 seconds off for weeks then suddenly 1 minute fast. Curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 02:51 PM

My Crescent Street 21j failed, now 10 minutes slow.
Not entered:
The Waltham 15j Model 1879 is 30 seconds fast, excellent time-keeping. I had no idea it was still well adjusted.
The Bunn Special 60 hour, which I got just as the test was starting, is 8 minutes slow.
Both the Crescent Street and the Bunn probably need cleaning as well as regulating; neither having been serviced for many years. Service on the Model 1879 was in 1988.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 12:15 PM

Month was up on thursday captain and if you gained 1 min over 32 days that is amazing ... for example, rail road time is 30 sec per week

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 11:57 AM

So, when is the month up? I've lost track of time.

For some reason, number 16 has gained 1 full minute!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

LOL, my wife said there comes a time in a man's life that either he turns to loose women and booze and fast cars ... or pocket watches ... so I am allowed to any pocket watch I want .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 03:07 PM

It's kinda sad watching guys like this stumbing around garage sales, trembling and twitching and mumbling "watches...must...have...watches..."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 01:15 PM

My latest find, a very rare Hampden 21 Jeweled Special Railway 1907
there were only 100 or so of these on this production run .. very rare.

Hampden

inside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 04:16 PM

Why, Kitty? It was doing great until I forgot to wind it; that put it out of the game through no fault of the watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

most old watches will average 2-4 minutes or more a week that are not high end RR watches. to lose of gain 5 sec over this period of time is more than impressive, it is spectacular