'More pretentious than Bellowhead'

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 03:36 AM

Are groups like Bellowhead an inspiration to youngsters to be interested in folk? You bet! My 10-year old daughter plays Bellowhead ad infinitum and idolises Rachel McShane. Her ambition is to get Rachel to give her cello lessons (that's after she's had fiddle lessons from Eliza). So thanks to Bellowhead for giving the whole family a huge amount of fun and pleasure, live and on CD, you've helped me prove I'm not too old to pogo.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: andrew e
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 03:16 AM

Well I'd never heard of Bellowhead either, so checked them out on youTube. Quite a few movie clips there.
I suppose quite a few folks wouldn't really call that "folk", but they are quite entertaining. There's plenty of them, they fill up the whole stage.Some clever and well worked out arrangements.

The idea that if we say we don't like someone/something, then it's a reflection of how we are. I think that must be right, as it is a personal thing.
I think it's fine to say it, though maybe we don't really need to unless asked.
But why do we really like some music, or anything really. We can give reasons, but if you like it you just like it! Or the opposite!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:08 PM

Never heard Bellowhead, but now will have to try to go out of my way to find their sound. With that much heat generated about them, they certainly seem to have pissed off a lot of 'critics' (I do accept that some have said that they just have bias - do not like their style! - that is acceptable comment!) - so they must really have some talent! Thanks for bringing them to my notice! :-)

Last night I attended a High School 'band concert'. They were somewhat shaky on the early part where they did some 'Classical Symphony style' Music, but when they hit the more 'pop/rock' stuff they were A+. The young singers did have a few wobbles here and there, but overall they were great. Enjoyed the evening. Realized that the level of confident performance was directly related to the type of music that these kids were most likely to have listened to most of the time while growing up - on radio, etc in their lifetime.

I grew up playing pipe organ. I always wanted to play piano accordion as a kid, but my parents could not afford one. I found one at a price I could afford some years ago and fell in love (now have several) - the two instruments are very similar in playing technique.

I gave up listening to negative wankerscritics when some all knowing clown (didn't see him playing at all at that accordion festival!) tried to tell me that the piano accordion - fitted with various switches to bring in and remove various sets of reeds on demand from the keyboard (like a pipe organ does with pipes), should never be played with only one set of reeds engaged for the keyboard!

There's often a certain amount of jealousy from 'B graders' - those who cannot perform more than 'passably' (or often cannot even play any instrument at all!) towards those better - a sort of self defensive self justifying delusion.

As a player, you MUST know deep within yourself your real level of competence - allowing for nerves and practice history - :-) - if you get a few very nasty comments now & then, perhaps you should know these negative critics for just what they really are. :-P

:-)

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:50 PM

hmmm.. but I got the distinct impression that most of those anonymous one-shot guests were Bellowhead members..?!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:49 PM

I have learned not to express my personal distaste of Bellowhead. Last time I mentioned it, I got jumped on by the intolerent ones who see any expression of tastes that differ from their own, as a personal affront.

Spare us. I find them a bit underwhelming on CD (I've never seen them live) and have posted here saying so. Nobody (including the band themselves) took what I said as any kind of mortal insult. But then I stuck to specific and objective musical criticisms when saying what I took issue with.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,folkiedave (Dave Eyre)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 07:45 PM

What an absolutely shit thread.

It isn't about criticism John - it is about talking shit.

Vulgar, nasty shit.

I do hope people feel better.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:23 PM

I have learned not to express my personal distaste of Bellowhead. Last time I mentioned it, I got jumped on by the intolerent ones who see any expression of tastes that differ from their own, as a personal affront.
Just thought I'd pop in and mention that. Didn't read many posts, but Mick's post above, tells me, that this thread is all I suspected it might be.
Byeeeee.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:12 PM

I knew I should not have opened this thread. When, Lordy, when will I ever learn. SSDD at its very finest.

Mick

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:09 PM

There are some nit-pickers and regular sparring partners who post under their Mudcat registered names, but most of the really rubbish posts have been from guests. There is no way of telling whether guests giving their names as well-known artists are the artists they purport to be, or impostors.

Kitty

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:09 PM

Ruth, you mean critics?

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:08 PM

"a select little band of self-delusional, smug bile-merchants who have elected themselves to rule the school,"

I already have a fair idea of the people whose opinions displease you. Some of these fellons are my friends (they are among the cranky, the odd and the subborn members here). But perhaps you'd care to offer a fuller list to this "select little band"?
It's important, because those artists under your patronage need to remember that *your* support is of course, much more important that a few random "opinions" offered on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:02 PM

Who, exactly, are you talking about? As far as I can see, every single one of the slag-offs and put-downs has come from GUEST posters, most of whom we've never seen before. So who on earth is this "select little band of self-delusional, smug bile-merchants", etc, etc?

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 05:46 PM

Mudcat's free-for-all bile-fest has a few apologists. The shit that's been hurled on this thread has genuinely upset talented people whose only crime is to have worked very hard and gained a bit of profile.

A few regular posters have in the past suggested that these kinds of personal attacks are par for the course for those who have chosen a career in music, and that those under attack should suck it up. Trolls aside, perhaps this is the real Mudcat disease - a select little band of self-delusional, smug bile-merchants who have elected themselves to rule the school, dressing up their pompous witterings as significant musical criticism. When, of course, it's often just a self-congratulatory circle-jerk of the mediocre, who never seem to accomplish an awful lot themselves, but CHRIST, do they have a lot to say.

At least the several disgusted responses to this festering turd of a thread would suggest that the scales may have fallen from a few more eyes, which can only be a good thing.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 05:41 PM

"there are no cranks or nutters here."

I know, it makes one crave the security of more sterile secure forums where anonymous trolling and loony vendettas don't happen.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:56 PM

And I might add that this thread was started in an effort to steer a one-shot anonymous bomb-thrower into a more constructive discussion - with some excellent posts by Tom Bliss, Les in Chorlton, Anahata, Spleen Cringe and Foul Ole Ron, as well as the original poster Will Fly. Patiently and constructively responding to destructive criticisms, even when the person making them refuses to engage in the discussion - I think that probably is Mudcat at or pretty near its best.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:49 PM

Tush and pish, Ruth. Firstly, most of the 'embittered no-marks' upthread are one-shot anonymous GUESTs. You could criticise Mudcat for allowing one-shot anonymous GUESTs to blow in and stink the place up, but that's a bit different from saying Mudcat harbours cranks and nutters. Secondly, and more importantly, nobody's denied that crankism and nutterage exists on Mudcat, sometimes courtesy of well-established and prolific posters. What has been challenged is the idea that the cranks and nutters are prescriptive traddies, and the suggestion that prescriptive traddies are cranks and nutters.

I mean, I could name you half a dozen posters who regularly make other Catters sigh and duck for cover, and half a dozen posters who think Bellowhead ought to stop messing about with the tunes and Jim Moray ought to start singing properly. Nobody on both lists, though.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 04:26 PM

Ah, Mudcat at its finest. But of course, there are no cranks or nutters here. Heaven forfend anyone should suggest such a thing.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,irritable guy
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 03:42 PM

Some people simply shouldn't be allowed to have opinions.

Some of you picky bastards couldn't pay your way onto studying composition at Birmingham Conservatiore. You have to be good at what you do to get in there, it's where Doug Oates went. He knows what he is doing; he knows his stuff about all styles of music and he plays more instruments than all of these naysayers put together.

To say that Sam Sweeney is "sorely lacking in talent or technique" is simply ridiculous. I thought that was a joke at first but sadly it turned out not to be.

Some of you people think that being able to hide behind a computer keyboard and a screen, and spew malicious and opinionated crap onto one of these websites makes you into a world class music critic.
Sam Sweeney is a bloody good musician. I saw him play when he was 12, he was amazing back then and he is amazing now. Nobody deserves to be ripped apart on these online forums for all to see, not least young musicians.

It can really dent one's confidence to read comments like these and people should have a little respect.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Lakey Hill
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:59 PM

Not been on here for months and I'm really sorry I returned. Personal attacks on musicians, whether we like their music or not, is surely not the purpose of this venerable forum. Critical comment on music is one thing but the sort of garbage that is being peddled further up this thread is just deeply unpleasant. When musicians, be they professional or amateur, put their music out into the public domain, they take a risk. That risk should not include the risk of being attacked personally. I sense some deep jealousy somewhere. Keep your green-eyed monster for somewhere else.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:58 PM

"embittered no-marks (most of them apparently not regular contributors) to hurl shit anonymously. Get it off here!"

On a quick scan of the thread, one Mudcat member said they don't like Bellowhead. All other negative comments (including the quote which inspired the thread) have come from a smattering of non-regular Guests. The Guest posting is pretty much the only thing I'd be happy to see eliminated from MC.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:38 PM

Yes, the thread title was unfortunate to start with - although I realise that the original intention was to engage with a guest poster whose previous, spiteful remarks some people thought worthy of polite rebuttal. Now it's just become a bandwagon for embittered no-marks (most of them apparently not regular contributors) to hurl shit anonymously. Get it off here!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:21 PM

As such, I don't think I want to be associated with it any longer

Nor me. For quite some time I've been out of the loop and really wish I'd stayed there. This is one of the most horrible, misinformed and damaging threads I have ever seen on this forum, far worse than when I made my first contribution 8 years ago in defence of a young and talented artist who was receiving a kicking for being just that. Current targets however are experienced and brilliant musicians who have been performing professionally for up to a decade or more. No-one is forcing you to listen or even like them. But until and unless you have something informed to say. Till then, do everyone else a favour and shut up.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:46 PM

There do seem to be more than the usual number of those redered bitter and twisted by all the years they have suffered the agony of being over looked by fame and fortune.
Sense of entitlement overload one suspects.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Chris Green
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:27 PM

Christ, there are some twats on this thread! Personal taste is one thing, but to seriously suggest that Nancy Kerr, Sam Sweeney, Jim Moray and the rest of Bellowhead are mediocre musicians is quite simply factually inaccurate. Not to mention the increasingly unpleasant ad hominem attacks on those people.

This thread and a seemingly endless dreary parade of others like it have brought me (probably belatedly) to the conclusion that the few sane and coherent voices on this forum will be forever drowned out by the noise of far more numerous empty vessels. As such, I don't think I want to be associated with it any longer.

So to the intelligent, courteous and civilised minority - it's been nice knowing you. To the baying horde of gibbering nutters who appear to be taking over the asylum - enjoy the shabby, blinkered little corner of cyberspace you've created for yourselves.

Bye!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:45 PM

"We're all going to hang ourselves because Mudcat hate us, boo bloody hoo"

How many posters have said (approximately) "Bellowhead are pants!" on this thread? I haven't counted them to be fair, but I imagine if I did so I could number them on one hand and still have a couple of fingers to spare.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:37 PM

Perhaps I ought to remind the more recent posters on this thread - who don't appear to have read it thoroughly - that the purpose of the post was not to knock Bellowhead, and it wasn't even specifically about Bellowhead. The thread title is a quotation from another thread (about Peter Bellamy), where the writer was taking modern professional performers - including, but not solely Bellowhead - for not doing justice to our traditional music.

I felt that the criticism was unsubstantiated and invited that critic - one "GUEST,Catherine Foster" to (a) give reasons why she had made that criticism and (b) to provide examples of who she considered to be good performers. She has not replied in any substantive form.

This recent pointless criticism of a professional and talented band - which I personally consider Bellowhead to be - adds nothing whatsoever to the debate. Likes and dislikes are purely personal affairs - there's little point in airing them on a discussion board, and nothing to be gained by doing so.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:37 PM

W A M B o M C T

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:35 PM

No, you're right, guest. I have only seen two, and one of them only had one arm and he was on the telly.

I was lying about Sam. And that chap who plays with Ron Sexsmith (who everyone thinks is my brother because he's my double, only he is) and can drum and play the cello at the same time is rubbish too. So's that Pete Flood who just hits things with sticks. That's not music. That's just hitting things in time to the music. Rubbish.

I was foolishly thinking they were good because they were really entertaining and fun and had a really good feel and drive that made your pulse race and your heart sing, but you're right.

In fact music IS rubbish, now I come to think about it.

And food, too.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: S.T.M.
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

This is another one of those ridiculous threads that people here seem to thrive on. It takes me back to the reason I first joined; to argue with you all about defending the "weak breathy female voice"- and now you come up with another load of crap.

This time though, no long posts, all I'm going to say is this...

Bellowhead have sold how many gig tickets? How many albums?

And you have sold...? Or right...hmm, okay then.

Jim Moray has sold how many albums, how many gig tickets? How many folk awards has he won? And you? ....

And for the record, I have seen Sam Sweeney perform twice, and although I'm not as musically gifted as thou, I think it's safe to say that I could FEEL his playing (and I was sitting in the back seat, furthest corner...). Not only was his playing accurate and lively and vivacious- I could FEEL it. For me, that says it all.

But whatever, I'm sure the whole of Bellowhead are now crying and composing their next album called "We're all going to hang ourselves because Mudcat hate us, boo bloody hoo" now, whilst you lot go on making the best selling music ever...

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:26 PM

Tom,

You can't have seen that many drummers then, or the one's you have must have been pretty lame (or you haven't got a clue what you're talking about). Sweeney is one of the worst "drummers" I've ever seen. Hitting a drum skin within the ranks of Boden's small group does not a drummer make, and calling him a drummer is just plain wrong.


BTW Mr Flood. I think you are a fine drummer/percussionist and I always enjoy your playing, artistry, technique and creativity.

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Foul Ole Ron
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:17 PM

What do all you folkie people actually like thats' what Id like to know not that you were askign. Nothing clever about saying evetrythigns s**t pardon my astersisks anyone can do that and freqeuqntly does. Me i liek Nic jones and i think his brother Toms good too. Milleenniumm hand and shrimp.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Pete Flood
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM

Ok Dorothy, and just so that Ralph knows what you're talking about, here's where I'm coming from.

Rigid tempo - tempo giusto, is neutral - it has no intrinsic musical worth. You could argue that it implies stability, but that stability needs a period of instability to contextualise it otherwise it's a musical nothing.

Most musicians use some modulation of tempo as a musical device - the possibilities are many, and I'm not going to bore you with examples - I'm sure that if your listening includes genres beyond pop you can find your own.

Personally, I'm more than happy to play to clicks, but I don't feel it's appropriate to bh - glad to say that the few times I've tried it in rehearsal I've been politely asked to desist as it was making the whole thing overly sterile.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:53 AM

I think Bellowhead should compose something called 'Dance of the Trolls'. Bound to be a winner!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM

Am I alone in suspecting that Catherine Fosterself, Dorothy Scottage, Game Keeper (though maybe he was just being ironic but without the humour of Jack the Shed) and specially Danny Behringer are one and the same person?

For the record Sweeny is also one of the best drummers I've ever seen, and he can keep a beat (steadily or swerving in response to other factors good musicians do) WHILE PLAYING THE FIDDLE AT THE SAME TIME.

I saw that Dorothy Scottiche performing once...

I'm always nice about people, but...

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

Drummer - metronome - surely country music, not folk?

FWIW while I don't always like the outcome of JM's innovations, I am sure he is right to try them out.

And FWIW although I find that Bellowhead drift too readily towards a "disco-Irish" or "Euro-celtique" sound, again they are right to try different things out.

Folk music is not a sound but a derivation, and just as rock music got badly bogged down in meretricious technical exhibitionism in some aspects of prog-rock (and did not "rock"), other bits of prog-rock were inspiring: likewise some old and some new presentations of folk music and song may be illuminated by technical expertise but may also be deprived of the centre of their being (ie cease to "folk").

I think Tom Bliss had it very well nailed above (so long as he takes care about what is "folk").

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Dorothy Peterson
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:20 AM

Pete I will indeed pass on your regards to Ralph, and quiz him about the Black Page.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Dorothy Peterson
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:18 AM

Doug

I merely responded to Pete Flood's post which in turn responded to Applessed who was the poster commenting on the fundamental's of drumming. It is Appleseed who you should direct your interrogation toward.

I'm glad you found my critique refreshing. I stand by what I said.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:13 AM

Personally I find it quite refreshing to be referred to as "not a risk taker". I can't decide if I prefer it it the usual "not all his wilful experimentation is successful" criticism of me.

I'll let you know when I work it out.

re: the role of drummers, Dorothy - you are making the mistake of assuming that things are black and white. A lot of drumming takes the role of timekeeping, just as a lot of guitar playing takes the role of harmonic support, but who says that *all* music must be that way - sounds pretty boring to me. And you criticise for being dull and unimaginative?

clap clap clap. well done. no - really, well done.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:08 AM

Sorry for the thread drift, but I wonder if Appleseed and Dorothy can both be serious about a drummer as mere 'metronome'? And ditto to the Zappa reference suggested of course, among numerous others.

As a generally unaccompanied singer I've found that some percussion can be great (both to listen to and to receive) but in both instances I've been aware of the drummer observing the singer for cues as to how the tempo should be going.

The only time I saw this go wrong (though to no serious effect) was where the unexpected accompaniment (to a usually unaccompanied singer) happened to be blind, and as as such he wasn't able to follow any subtle cues as to where she wanted to shift tempo wise.

Otherwise, I do believe the drummer is more than a mere metronome. And that well crafted shifts in rhythm and tempo are one of the numerous pleasures of engaging with music.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Pete Flood
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:53 AM

of course I transcend the drummers art, I'm a percussionist ;)

Give Ralph my regards and ask him if he can play the Black Page yet...

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:36 AM

If you make that judgement on the basis of one non-regular's opinion then you're as bad as he is. If you come onto a folk discussion board you should expect to find criticism even if it is unfounded.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Sam Sweeney
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:28 AM

Been prompted to look at this website by a recent FaceBook conversation...

"Another one of these "nu-folk" pretenders who has seems to be darling of the month in the folk scene, but is musically bereft and sorely lacking in talent or technique i...s Bellowhead's own Sam Sweeney. A less able working "musician" would be very hard to find."

and

3) Some of the musical arrangements are awful:

Parson's Farewell - No better than a GCSE composition (trust me, I've heard lots)

Where do you horrible people come from?

Gary Keeper, can you tell me why I'm not an able "musician". Is my playing not up to scratch? And how am I a darling of the month? I've been gigging professionally for over 8 years... What am I "pretending" to do? Make a living from playing music professionally?

Hmmm... what a lovely forum this is. I shall make sure never to come back!

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:03 AM

"Metronome" Surely Appleseed was having a bit of a laff there?

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Dorothy Peterson
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:03 AM

Gosh Pete, you obviously transcend the drummers art. I must mention that to Ralph Salmins next time I see him.

In response to the replies to my comments about Jim/Doug, I think the crux of my point was that I find his music making awkward, uninspired and lacking musical coherence. Referring to pretension was obviously a mistake. A risk taker he isn't

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,pete flood
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:54 AM

that above were me.

"Surely the role of the drummer should be fundamentally that of a metronome.......?"

Only if you discern musical worth in rigid, unchanging tempos - I don't myself - but to each their own.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:48 AM

thanks Ed, but I never was particularly bothered by the opinions expressed on this board about bh - it's a big band and I am merely 9% of it. And lots of people were very complimentary about us, which is always nice.

But I do think people need to clarify what they mean when they use words like pretentious - a lot of the time they're saying "displaying musical or conceptual ambitions which in my opinion fall short of brilliance". I don't want to put words in Dorothy's mouth, particularly not after calling her a bilious dullard, but if that's what she means about Jim, she should have the grace to admit that that it's a better world and a richer culture in which artists take a few risks.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Appleseed
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:33 AM

Here, here. As this discussion is about poor performance in folk it's worth noting that on the four occasions I've witnessed the Bellowhead "spectacle", the tempos of tunes have differed widely from gig to gig and even altered during individual songs and tunes. Surely the role of the drummer should be fundamentally that of a metronome.......?

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Jack The Shed
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:57 AM

Tell you who else is shite that's that Eliza Rusby - jesus crisps he can't play trombine for toffee what he's doing playing with The Waterman's is beyond me.

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:56 AM

Exactly, Pete.

Don't let the miserable bastards get you down. You've worked on some fabulous albums in my opinion.

Those that criticise should put their work up for public scrutiny. Obviously, they won't because they haven't done anything worth releasing....

Subject: RE: 'More pretentious than Bellowhead'
From: GUEST,Pete Flood
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 08:34 AM

Well, I wasn't going to say it while it was my band being discussed, but pretentiousness in this context is really only a negative spin on creative ambition, without which we'd all be derided for treading the same old tired paths. FWIW I'll happily join Jim in the pretentious corner, and if it means that a few of the bilious dullards round these parts give me a wide berth, so much the better.