BS: Cholesterol and diet

Subject: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 09:20 AM

I realise that this isn't a new topic, a forum search brought up 591 messages...

My reason for starting this thread is to ask whether a change in diet brought down a high cholesterol reading for you?

I've just been on the 'phone to my mum who says that a year of eating the 'right' foods made no difference at all to her to her results.

Mine is high (as you might have guessed) and was just interested.

Thanks,

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 09:54 AM

It often makes a difference but often not enough.

I use both diet and statins. The diet means I need less statins.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 10:49 AM

Now in my early 50's i've finally given in and accepted my Dr's advice
and persuasion from my elderly mother
to go on statins.

Likewise, i grudgedly capitulated to taking blood pressure tablets
at the start of this year..

Dr seems to have a convincing argument that i'm geneticaly predisposed
to high cholesterol levels despite how hard I control my diet,
and that statins should show a significiantly higher drop in cholestorol levels
than any dietary control efforts alone.

In a months time i should get results on the effectiveness of this first 2 month
course of tablets;
and so far no sign of adverse side effects.

Anyway, I'm resigned to staying on these tablets for the rest of my life....

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 10:53 AM

Resigned to taking the pills?

Why don't you be glad that they are available to you, so you can have a healthier and happier future?

Then reach for an instrument...

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:17 AM

My friend, no diet change did anything for me ... Omega 3 fish oil capsules ya can get em anywhere ... It knocked my numbers down to where my doc buddie keeps smiling and saying wow you are watching your diet (not true) just the fish oil

It really really works for me anyway ...

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM

Cutting out the cheese and so forth seemed to bring my reading down significantly a few years ago. Now it's gone up again and I've been told to try statins.

Never mind, we know a song about that: Adam McNaughton's "Cholesterol"

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:51 AM

Diet didn't do much for my levels and despite apparently being under control with statins I still ended up with a bypass.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:55 AM

Diet is a bad word. Choice of foods is better.
But don't forget exercise. One without the other doesn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bobad
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM

Diet alone does not budge my cholesterol level but everyone is different. Diet is usually sufficient for those whose levels are elevated due to a high saturated fat intake but not for those whose defect lies in liver metabolism.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bobad
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:12 PM

Diet, in this usage, refers to a diet (food intake regimen) that is low in saturated fat, not a weight reduction regimen.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:13 PM

I was a Fat-Knacker until I was put on a low-fat (for that, read virtually no-fat diet due to gall bladder/pancreas problems and lost about 90 lbs in weight . Result - even though I've put 18 - 19 lbs back on (no tutting, doctor's orders!) my cholesterol was 2.2 at my last check-up.

I agree everyone is different - my mum-in-law eats extremely healthily, yet has cholesterol of 7.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:44 PM

A buddy of mine in good shape was told... so he made an appointment to have it checked again in 30 days. He ate NONE, except saltwater fish. Same level. Decided that was where it was supposed to be.

He told the doc his gran'mudder was 96 and ate things like a big greasy steak with fried onions, and baked spuds drenched in butter and deep fried baloney with fried eggs every day so he was worried she might not live much longer but he figured he had some more years left.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: olddude
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM

Well I am far from fat in any manner, I walk and exercise a lot .. No change in diet did anything for me ... the fish oil did wonders to the numbers .. but everyone is different. Sounds to me like give the statins a try .. go to the doc it is important to keep the numbers down.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 02:51 PM

hi

Like you ( and millions of others) I have high cholesterol - like in double figures. When my doc found that I was high he put me on statins straight away. Over the years I have had both the doses and the type of statin changed and generally they have managed to keep my cholesterol in check.

My doc said that as my initial reading was so high he thought it might be a genetic thing so I told my sister who when she was tested was also very high. But her doctor - a woman - put her on a very strict diet for about a year.

She found that it had no effect whatso-ever on her cholesterol, in fact it rose slightly.

But I guess that diets do work for the majority of cases = that's why the medics try you out first on them.

I hope this helps.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 03:32 PM

Well, 'My Dr.' told me that the ONLY kind of 'diet' that will help high cholesterol enough to matter is a STRICT vegan one. NO animal products at all. So, even tho I watch what I eat I get statins too. Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: gnu
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 04:58 PM

Have you tried a strict vegan diet S? If so, what were the results?

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 05:17 PM

I cut out butter, cheese, eggs and meat. Pretty soon I added occasional meat back I increased "good" fats like fish and the oils they say are good.   
First effect was that nearly 20 kg almost melted off (I hate to think how close to literally) in the first year and a half, and none of that weight has come back with the third year now beginningI fluctuate within limits that haven't moved since I started fluctuating instead of just losing).
From being high, my good cholesterol is almost down to where it needs to be, and from being low, my good cholesterol is I think OK, but I'm due for a check soon.

The way I keep from going nuts (can't be ridiculous, after all) is

1) participating in family events like Thanksgiving with moderation rather than avoidance;
2) If I'm really craving something, occasionally I'll make it through the week by promising myself something on the weekend; then if I still crave it I have it, but only one thing like a slice of toast with a little butter; and
3)When they draw blood for the tests, I eat almost whatever I want (like once a hot dog, and once a cheeseburger and *ooh* was it good) until the meeting with the doctor for the results. That way I have re-set my crave-ometer to 0 right when I'm getting a big feather in my cap for doing so well with diet alone, and am all ready to get back on it seriously. Think I'll have buffalo wings this time...

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 06:08 PM

My cholesterol was up to 5.8 in April last year, so I was referred to the dietician. I'd been eating a fairly low cholesterol diet for years and didn't want to go on statins, so I tried Benecol/ Flora yogurt drinks. Back down to 4.7 in January 2010.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:14 PM

I am NOT doing without ANY cheese, yogurt, meat, etc. NO, I'm NOT a vegan and I don't plan to be in this life.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 10:22 AM

If you want to bring your cholesterol down, don't eat dairy or meat products (including fish).
Also, avoid processed foods. If you can, avoid cooked foods. And get plenty of exercise.
10 minutes of brisk walking per day would help.

Sure there are those who live a long time who abuse their bodies. But what about the quality of their life and health?

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bankley
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 10:32 AM

Hemp seed oil, and Germanium works for me... check them out

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 12:01 PM

Those little drinks apparently have some effect. The Tesco own-brand ones are a hell of a lot cheaper than rip-offs like Benecol. I hear that avoiding cholesterol in food is not the point - it's your overall saturated fat intake that has far more bearing on cholesterol level. Also, it's the balance between the good and bad cholesterol that's more important than overall level. I shall continue with my carnivorous and cheese-eating habits but I shall always eat my greens and go for a long walk every day. And have a glass or three of vin rouge, of course. This has been scientifically proven to keep me happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 10 - 09:33 PM

The vin rouge cure is not necessarily scientific, Steve. There is a lot of debate about that.
The HDL and LDL ratio is important but it will not improve with dairy and meat.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Sooz
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 07:50 AM

You actually make cholesterol in your body and if you are genetically disposed to have a high level you can't do very much about it. If your high fat diet was the cause then its a different matter!

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 08:46 AM

There's no debate in our house that vin rouge keeps me happy. Or Talisker. Or Doom Bar.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 01:19 PM

It is really important to read up on insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome and to get your insulin levels checked. Excess carbohydrates can be more of a problem than the fats...there is a lot of misinformation out there, some really bad research and a whole lot of people repeating myths..so do some research. People who have looked for studies they assumed were there to prove all this cholesterol / heart stuff have not found the research. Maybe some exists now. Anyway, study this carefully before you make things worse. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 04:43 PM

Sooz, you can do something about it. Look at your food intake carefully and your exercise
regimen.

I agree with mg. There is much misinformation. There are also logical choices.
If you eat a high percentage of meat and dairy you are going to have high cholesterol and unbalanced HDL and LDL levels. If you don't exercise sensibly, you are going to have problems too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 05:09 PM

Smoke a salmon.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 05:19 PM

How do you keep it lit?

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 15 Oct 10 - 05:36 PM

That is just not true that you WILL have high cholesterol and unbalanced HDL and LDL. I have not been checked lately but my ratings were in the really good levels...although I do have insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome and can not shake excess weight..it is possible that by eating less, and I am eating only enough to get to work and back..I could lose weight, but I can guarantee you that I would not produce enough energy to work and ..anyway, lots of people can be in fine fettle eating lots of meat and dairy. It depends on who your ancestors are, what they adapted to, c0-evolved with. What is good for a Japanese person probably won't be good for a Swiss person. And we have so much mixed ancestry it is hard to usually say what our metabolism likely is so we have to go by trial and error.

Anyway, the major problems it seems are (1) refined and even nonrefined carbs..grinding is a problem. Starches especially bad for some people as ancestors did not evolve to eat many grains, especially ground up and refined. (2) Trans fats -- artificially altered oils and fats. The research gets really mixed up here because they combined really bad artificial fats with fats that are actually quite good for many people..like coconut oil. So some people do just fine with dairy, lard etc...if they evolved for it. I would not advocate introducing this to a healthy population that has lived on fish and fruit for example. (3) Corn syrup products seem to be quite bad.

So I would assume that it would be adviseable to never eat trans fats, to experiment with animal and dairy if your ancestors did fine with it, and to not eat white flour or any flour products for starters. This is not a theoretical process. You can measure your weight, your blood fat levels, your blood sugar and just how you feel and see if one way or another way of eating is right for your metabolism. Look at what your ancesters did well on..then get up at 5 in the morning and milk 40 cows like they did...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Sooz
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 03:16 AM

Stringsinger - I'm a vegetarian on a very low fat diet. I use no fat for spreading and a minimum amount of olive oil for cooking. I don't think it would be possible to eat any less! I also walk about 6 miles every day. My cholesterol is still above accepted levels. I'm afraid its in my genes.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 05:18 AM

I have to agree with Sooz - it all depends on your genetic disposition. I eat a very low-fat diet and I avoid animal fats, dairy products etc. to a great degree. In my case my cholesterol is very low - overal level was 2.2 at my last check. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who can control it by diet, however I have friends and family whose diets are very healthy and low-fat, but they are unable to lower their cholesterol to what is considered to be a satisfactory level.

I think the first step in cholesterol control has to be dietary, if that proves not to work (like in Sooz's case) then maybe Statins are the way to go. At the moment they're unnecessary for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 02:00 PM

Folks..a low-fat diet is probably great for some people but for others it leads to health problems. It is not a universal good diet. The good diet is one that works for your metabolism. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 02:11 PM

If anyone went on a vegan diet their cholesterol figure would plummet, but, I'm afraid most people "need" their red meat and fatty foods.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 05:28 PM

read this and google low fat myths, cholesterol myths etc. Read up on what Dr. Mary Enig has to say..she is a lipid researcher.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/why-cholesterol-may-not-b_b_290687.html

Read up on metabolic typing..not blood typing..diets. Basically he says (and I think he is referring to people of Northern European extraction) there are four types of metabolisms: one does great with a vegetarian diet. One does great with what is consider a pretty balanced diet by nortamericano standards..a balance of fruits, protein, grains, vegetables, pretty low-fat. Those people get social reinforcement. Then there is another group that requires more fat and more protein and fewer carbs. They get scolded and admonished but not villified. Then there is a fourth group that requires stronger proteins -- beef instead of chicken. A fair amount of animal fats. Low grains or perhaps no grains for some or for other after body has been damaged by other food plans. Those people are not treated kindly by society. They are the ones who become diabetics often if they do not eat what nature wants them to eat. And diabetes is obviously a function of carbohydrate metabolism. Why are people told to eat a huge amount of carbs once diagnosed? It makes no sense. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:44 PM

I am NOT doing without ANY cheese, yogurt, meat, etc. NO, I'm NOT a vegan and I don't plan to be in this life.

That is why I do the things to keep from going crazy. The first year, cheese was hard to avoid; now, it's butter.

You can eat a lot of NO-FAT dairy. The idea is not to have any animal sources of fat. And watch some other oils, like palm oil is not good, nor is cooking with olive oil. Keep olive oil for the salads.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 09:52 PM

And some poeple can eat a lot of full fat dairy and lose weight and be quite healthy. It is all dependent on the metabolism of the person, and has a lot to do with their ancestry. Can a person of full Swiss ancestry probably not do pretty well with dairy? Danish? Now if your ancestors thrived on fish and rice, don't eat dairy. And read up on palm oil..it has some health benefits which I am not sure of..very high in some vitamin. But coconut oil is very very good for people and has a bad rap.

Get your insulin levels checked everyone, especially if you are overweight. Do not believe anyone who says that type 2 diabetics don't make enough insulin. This is malpractice talking because it is a verifiable, testable measure. Many make way too much and we need to know whether we do or don't. Mine was 5 times as high as it should be. Insulin is a fat storing hormone. If you are overweight, you are probably in a process leading up to diabetes. Check it out. You can have very good blood sugar levels but very high insulin levels. Means your body is working very hard to control things and probably sooner or later it will not be able to. Hence measurable blood sugar problems. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:14 PM

here is an older article by Dr. Mary Enig..lipid researcher.

http://www.health-report.co.uk/saturated_fats_health_benefits.htm

I will check for newer stuff by her but she might be retired by now and I don't know who is an expert now. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bobad
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:24 PM

There is much pseudo science on the web in the field of medicine - 'praemonitus, praemunitus'.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Oct 10 - 11:44 PM

"And watch some other oils, like palm oil is not good, nor is cooking with olive oil. Keep olive oil for the salads."

This is the first I've heard * that casts doubt on Olive oil ???

For years now I've cooked with nothing but extra virgin Olive oil
on the understanding it was the recommended 'healthiest' choice;

so is Olive oil healthier to cook with or not ????

if not, which oil is ?


[*the wife reckons she read something recently
that mentioned that extra virgin olive oil might be a waste of money to cook with,
as normal cheaper olive oil would be just as 'good'..

.. but nothing negative regarding any adverse health reasons to avoid cooking
with it ?? ]

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 12:03 AM

Some recommend coconut oil for baking and frying..some oils do not do well in high heat and some are fine. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 06:00 AM

I understand that you shouldn't cook with extra virgin olive oil (at least not hot frying) because its smoke temperature can be very low. Groundnut oil is brilliant for frying or doing oven chips and it's cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:53 AM

"Why are people told to eat a huge amount of carbs once diagnosed? It makes no sense. mg"

They're not - that's to say they're not here in the UK.

They're told to eat a balanced diet which includes, but is not dominated by carbohydrate. A rough rule of thumb is to divide the plate into thirds - one-third carbohydrate, one fruit and vegetables, the remaining third divided equally into non-dairy protein, and milk and dairy foods, and with a very small proportion of high-fat/sugar-containing foods. A Balanced Diet for a Type-2 Diabetic

I speak only with regard to Type-2 Diabetes, as that my condition.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:11 PM

I was just reading a diabetes magazine put out by Better Homes and Gardens and it recommended 135 grams of carb per day I think for a small woman...that is a recipe for getting diabetes if you are vulnerable. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: bobad
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:18 PM

"Better Homes and Gardens" - one of the more highly regarded, peer reviewed, scientific journals - NOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 11:57 PM

Beat me to it, Bobad.

mg - my source is the leading association for Diabetics in the UK. It's a resource for diabetics to learn about and understand their disease and it's care and treatment, and is a major driver of research into the disease. I'm more inclined to follow its advice than something I read in 'Better Homes and Gardens'.

If you wanted advice about a colour scheme for your living room, you wouldn't look in 'Yachting Monthly', so why look for advice on the care and treatment of a potentially fatal disease in a homes and gardens magazine, eh?

It don't make no sense, guv'nah! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:53 PM

Did I say I took that advice? If I did I would be dead. It is horrible advice and that magazine is full of horrible advice, but yet it is what is being told to diabetics. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:53 PM

Right, heating olive oil changes it to a not good oil... I will look for the references. It was news to me too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:57 PM

Heating Olive Oyl was good for Popeye, but he ate a lot of spinach.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:06 PM

Read up on coconut oil for high heat cooking and its health effects. Good for people with thyroid problems, which is a huge percentage of women..not sure about men. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:34 PM

Sooz, you might consider a raw food diet with no animal products. Even olive oil contains fat. Cooking it is worse. The question is not what you don't eat but what you do eat.

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:15 PM

I agree that people have varying needs when it comes to fat, from very low to very high..but are you suggesting no fats at all? What will you do for cell membranes and brain sheaths etc? Conversion of some cholesterol into vitamins? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:22 PM

You must must must research this and not believe everything you hear, including of course from me. Get a blood sugar monitor, have your insulin levels tested and compare to blood sugar levels..there is a ratio that is important.

http://www.lindaprout.com/articles/Fat_deficient.php

Here is something I quickly googled. It is up to you to figure out peoples' qualifications, analyze the research etc. T here is a lot of information out there..some of it quite bad. Some works for some people..maybe 1/3 of the population..bully for them. That is great. Butr you have to find what works for you. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Cholesterol and diet
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 04:02 AM

What brought the change in my diet was the result of a blood test after eating a MacDonald's plain burger and a few fries. It didn't have cheese or added bacon just a plain simple little hamburger. I had an appointment with the doctor for a general check and I was early so I thought I would just have a little something to eat just to kill some time. At the surgery I had some blood taken and the results of my cholesterol level was sky high which was a concern at the time. I am not a regular MacDonald's eater I would rather have proper food, this was just a one off but it was frightening to think how high it was with just one burger.

Now I take my cod-liver oil, try to cook with virgin olive oil as much as possible. Eat raw vegetables and fruit in between the cooked ones. Cut off any fat, eat white meat rather than red and I do enjoy fish and I do feel healthier after eating fish and can think better. The only thing I have difficulty with are sweet things I can't resist cakes and puddings.