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Subject: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM A bit short-notice, I know, but there's a Commando Trad event being organised in Liverpool on 23rd Oct (next Saturday). A guy called Brian Read is organising it. He's mainly advertised it on a melodeon forum, so ATM the group's a bit heavy on meleodeons/ concertinas and a bit light on strings. I think about 30 people are signed up so so, but there's room for more! If you're interested in joining in, sign up for his newsletters on: Liverpool Commando Trad Sign-Up Once you're signed up the newsletter he puts out contains all the details, but basically it's Liverpool, from about 1100 for about an hour (3-4 different locations will be "hit"). Tunes will be "Davy Davy Knick Knack" and "Oyster Girl" in G, running AABBAABB several times through at each location. I'm oop north anyway so will drag my octave mando along for a twang. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:14 AM Sorry, not "an hour"...it'll take about 20 mins to half an hour at each location, morning and afternoon. I suspect it'll be OK to turn up to either just morning or just afternoon sessions if people have limited time. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:34 AM Good luck, and it should be great. I hope they'll have some dancers - the form seems to assume this is only about musical instruments. Though the feet are musical instruments. And of course people with the skill to film and record and edit the events, and post it on the net. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 16 Oct 10 - 07:54 AM Yes, they have some clog dancers lined up, and video cameras, I understand. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 16 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM Bumpin' this! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Richard Bridge Date: 16 Oct 10 - 02:42 PM Why don't they wear underpants? |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 16 Oct 10 - 03:14 PM Look forward to seeing the videos, should be fun! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: terrier Date: 16 Oct 10 - 07:22 PM You might even see me, I'll be there with my fluuuuute. Any other catters going? |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: John J Date: 16 Oct 10 - 07:57 PM Yup...me. JJ |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: LesB Date: 17 Oct 10 - 04:38 AM Me 2 Les |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 17 Oct 10 - 04:49 AM Good to see there'll be a few 'catters' there! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:00 AM Refreshing this to catch any possible late-comers. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:40 AM It's getting closer!!! Brian seems to have done a fantastic job of organising it, getting it filmed, working out timing/ locations/ spread of players and even having 3rd party insurance and a first aider standing by, judging by his last newsletter update. Quite far away from Conrad's "just turn up" attitude, but should still appear "spontaneous" to on-lookers. It takes quite a bit of organisation to make something like this look spontaneous :-) |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: greg stephens Date: 21 Oct 10 - 08:38 AM Good luck with this. Something similar might be happening in Stoke shortly.....watch the skies. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM I thought that went pretty well in the end. A few teething problems....changing smoothly from a 4/4 to a 6/8 with well-dispersed players didn't work too well...especially when we were playing on 2 levels of the centre. By the time we hit the 3rd session, though, we'd learned a lot, sounded much tighter, and managed to get a fair few passers-by dancing. Joules' djemba helped with the timing, I thought. I believe Greg had 5p thrown into his instrument case at one point, too! We weren't too inconvenienced by the many amplified buskers around thre place. The nearest one politely stopped playing during our 2nd set. The Aldi Samba Drummers marching all over the city centre, and the nearby steel band could have caused problems, but in the end, luck and flexibility in timing avoided any clashes. Many thanks to Brian Read for kicking this off and "herding the cats" during the event, and to Ceppy for doing all the background work (permits, insurances, turning us all into "licenesed street musicians" for a day, etc...all considerably more involved than you might think at first glance). I think the film crew will have a tricky job editing it all down into something that looks as good as it "felt" on the day...but they must have loads of footage, though every time they pointed a camera at me I flubbed the chords, so I kind of hope I don't make an appearance! It was great to meet a few northern mudcatters there, too, and the post-ambush session in the Baltic Fleet was great. Excellent beer and great music! Looking forward to seeing some more kicking off around the country. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: terrier Date: 24 Oct 10 - 06:55 PM There's already a YouTube vid up but I'm not posting the link here, I hope the 'official' one's better, LOL. Full marks to everyone who turned out on a cold, wet day. I think we made a pretty good fist of it all considering. Couldn't get to sleep last night, DDKK kept running through my sozzled brain, nothing to do with the wheat beer of course :) |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: SylviaN Date: 24 Oct 10 - 07:01 PM Well done and glad it went well and look forward to seeing the video. Greg, I'll be looking at the sky for the one in Stoke, but make sure the light shines brightly. Sylvia |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: LesB Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:07 AM The first 'official' video has now been posted. Liverpool Folk Ambush enjoy. Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Dave Hanson Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:45 AM Brilliant, people dancing in the street and lots of people SMILING to English traditional music. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Noreen Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:16 AM Oh- it says 'this video has been removed by the user'. Was looking forward to seeing this. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:35 AM Oh! it was there a short while ago. Perhaps Mk 2 is on the way. I'll post any future links as soon as I know. Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Dave Hanson Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:13 AM I watched it this morning. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:20 AM Getting "Removed by user" still. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Leadfingers Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:35 AM I caught it earlier - Looked like excellent fun ! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:40 AM It was....except that every time the cameramen turned one in my direction I turned into Mr Jelly Fingers! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM Nope - it still says that the video has been removed by the user. Anybody care to explain what has happened? I saw it (without sound, which was turned down as I was talking to someone at the time homed in on it) on the day it was put up - but I certainly can't access it now. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:34 AM On another forum they mentioned they wanted to edit the video further. From the video as I saw it it looked people were enjoying themselves. Unfortunately the video made it look like a group of people turned up and played music in a busy shopping street. Nothing more special than a large group of buskers. I think that's a bit unfortunate. The original ambush video, Antwerp Central Station, was brilliant because of the surprise effect, the brilliance of the execution of the idea, the clash between performance and location and performance, the enthusiasm and skill of the people taking part. All those things and probably a few more. I didn't get anything remotely like that from this video, it was no more exciting or surprising than, well, a large group of buskers on a busy shopping street on a rainy saturday. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Leadfingers Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM That thought DID cross my mind - Where there problems with getting people upstairs in he mall , for instance ? If any one wanted to have a go within reach I would be interested in taking part |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:55 AM It was quite a steep learning curve for us. The first session (we did 4, 2 in each of 2 locations) we had people upstairs in the mall but because of the acoustics of the area they couldn't hear very well and upstairs/ downstairs were playing with a bit of a lag, so the next mall session we all stayed on one level. Also, although the turnout was pretty good, we were trying to cover a large area and when we were more spread out, the sound was very weak, so on subsequent sessions we closed up quite a bit, whch meant the impact was more "local". We could have thought about the "choreography" of how people started to play a bit more, too...BUT, this was a first attempt and Brian and Ceppy did a marvellous job just getting the organisation going. Bear in mind also that the Commando Trad video No 5 had EIGHT cameras/ sound recorders on site....we had 2, so the edit has much less raw footage to draw on. I'm planning on organising one in Tunbridge Wells, Kent, in the near future...sessions in the Pantiles and the Precinct ought to work well if timed properly, and with the lessons learned from Liverpool we may be able to make it look more "spectacular". |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:10 AM Not sure spectacular is what I'd be looking for. These things work, in my opinion, when they take place in unusual locations at times where you wouldn't expect them. The first of the Quebec ones I saw were just a few people in a tube station taking commuters by surprise. You could quibble about a few things in that one (there too I thought it wasn't quite as well done as the Antwerp one while still leaning heavily on it's idea) but the effect of people getting off trains or coming into the station, pulling out instruments and joining in added to the element of surprise, which I didn't get from their later videos (nr 5 in the market for example). It would probably help to work a bit on that, theatrical, side of the event. I am afraid if you don't the whole thing looks a bit like a rip off of a concept that is already getting tired under the weight of the number of other rip-offs. Without the dramatic effect you may as well get together more often and work up a repertoire and play out regularly, which should be as much fun. Without the hype of the video it's still fun to go out with a load of people and play music for other people. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:56 AM "the whole thing looks a bit like a rip off of a concept that is already getting tired under the weight of the number of other rip-offs." Nothing like that in traditional folk song of course... In fact that's one of the points of YouTube (or twitter, facebook etc.) as far as I can see, it's a transmitter for viral folk activity - by folk activity I mean simply what people do for themselves rather than what they are sold. As a medium of transmission for such activity it's no less valid than the oral one was. It just works more quickly. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Les in Chorlton Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:16 AM Steady Peter, did I detect a note of erm.............. enthusiasm? No, interest? Who can tell L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM "These things work, in my opinion, when they take place in unusual locations at times where you wouldn't expect them." Yes. Anyone attempting a musical Flash Mob is going to find it harder to get the surprise factor they are noted for, precisely because people are used to musicians busking in public places. The difficulty would be to find locations where people won't be used to hearing buskers, and at the same time succeeding in not being thrown out. A city's major graveyard (like Highgate Cemetery) might work because of the tourists. And (presumably) you're not going to get turfed out too sharpish. I did wonder if the turbine tower in Tate Modern might work, but I expect numbers of officious little people would bundle you off before you could so much as strap on your instruments. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: LesB Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:21 AM The video is back up Liverpool Folk Ambush It was a steep learning curve, but we have identified areas to improve upon if we do another. To those with negative comments above. I can only say, organise one youself & learn from our mistakes. Cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:42 AM Hold on there now about the 'those with negative comments' bit. Your video shows a load of people turning up to play two tunes that each take about two minutes to learn in a busy shopping area. They have fun, some passers by take the piss, some smile and enjoy the music, some don't take any notice. It's that. Nothing more, nothing less. All I said that if you're going to make a fuss about it, you may as well try to arrange it in a way that made other videos working along the same lines charming and sometimes a joy to watch. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Mr Happy Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM I felt the music wasn't in synch with the action? |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM It's quite hard to think of places where a group of musicians would take people by surprise. A busy beach in high summer might be interesting to watch, especially if everyone was just there scattered around sunbathing to start with. Middle of the night in Soho. One of those vast undercover specialist meat markets. A cathedral would be great but there's the officious people problem same as with art galleries and museums. Gatecrash something like a skateboarding festival.. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:14 AM Ooh, on the upper deck of one of those open-topped sightseeing buses. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:24 AM I think one of the charms of the Antwerp video and the Montreal tube one as well for example was that one person seemingly spontaneously started something. People started watching and gradually people who at first seemed members of the audience or casual passers by joined in, creating surprise and dramatic effect. In the Liverpool one there's a bunch of guys ponderously setting up like any sort of busking group and start playing. It's dramatically un-special. They had a great time no doubt but as a flash mob, it just doesn't even begin to work. If they are going to do it this way, they should get together more often, practice up a repertoire and go every week and probably enjoy it even more. They'd probably busk enough money to have a bit of a dinner together after playing in the process. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Les in Chorlton Date: 01 Nov 10 - 01:41 PM I guess you are right Peter, it wasn't perfect and a lot is to be learned, which, as far as I can tell is exactly what the organisers have said all along. Well done you organisers! We at the Beech in Chorlton send many thanks and much praise. A number of people who went to Liverpool play at The Beech and we are girding loins as I type L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: GUEST,oldstrings Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:25 PM "The difficulty would be to find locations where people won't be used to hearing buskers, and at the same time succeeding in not being thrown out." Crow Sister has it in a nutshell. When 27 musicians (plus some students) agreed to join in on April 17th, 2010, (Celtic Guerrillas Vancouver), that was the specific goal: do something unusual, but minimize the risk of wasting everyone's time by having the performance terminated. Walking that fine line also calls for well-informed and disciplined participants, with a respected leader to follow. What may look like casual videotaping probably involves many hours of editing in order to make a video presentable. Just a point: "Commando Trad" refers to the Montreal group, and in my opinion, should not be used to describe the Liverpool activity. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Desert Dancer Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:55 PM On the video it's "Liverpool Folk Ambush". |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: oldstrings Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:06 PM Yes it is, Desert Dancer, but this thread, and the recruitment letter, are not: "Subject: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor - PM Date: 16 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM A bit short-notice, I know, but there's a Commando Trad event being organised in Liverpool on 23rd Oct (next Saturday). A guy called Brian Read is organising it. He's mainly advertised it on a melodeon forum, so ATM the group's a bit heavy on meleodeons/ concertinas and a bit light on strings. I think about 30 people are signed up so so, but there's room for more! If you're interested in joining in, sign up for his newsletters on: Liverpool Commando Trad Sign-Up" |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: oldstrings Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:13 PM Celtic Guerrillas Vancouver also acknowledge inspiration by Commando Trad, but did not use their name. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM I wholly agree with what Crow Sister wrote at 01 Nov 10 - 07:56 AM, and feel that Peter Laban seems to have missed the whole point. As I read it, the idea of the event is to charm ordinary passers-by into recognising that this music can lift a mundane day into something delightful, and that it is a kind of music that connects with them. And the aim of the video, and putting it on YouTube is to invite other musicians and dancers to do the same thing where they are. And the evidence from this thread is that it is working - and I hope that it will build. Obviously it's a lot more complicated than it might seem, and there's a learning process to go through. The original Commando Trad people demonstrated that, if you look at the series of vids of missions. This was a very encouraging start - I look forward to seeing how things develop. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Artful Codger Date: 01 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM I, too, thought the real point was simply to bring traditional music to people who normally wouldn't hear it otherwise (by choice, if you will)--not necessarily to surprise, but to reach them in their native environments in a way that draws in many spectators at once (unlike with a busker or three), creating a sort of communal experience, all the more memorable for being unannounced and fleeting. If you also want the "commando" or spontaneous element, you're adding unnecessary complications that obscure the intent. Anyway, any fool realizes that such "spontaneous" events only occur with great deliberation. If it's hard to find venues where it wouldn't be "expected", then it sounds like the goal has already been achieved, and people are already getting a good exposure to traditional music! But I doubt that's really the case. You rarely hear that kind of music played even by mall buskers here. Mostly, it's pop covers or three-chord blues, maybe some bluegrass. So good job, Les and co! I've got a challenge for you--mob elevator music: imagine piped music all over the city suddenly breaking into a set of reels and ballads instead of Montovanni soft rock and Christmas carols. Now that would be "commando". |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:14 PM Or proper Christmas Carols |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Rob Naylor Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:04 PM Oldstrings...Yes, that "recruitment notice" was posted before any decision on a name had been reached. I didn't know what else to call it when starting the thread, but since we'd recently been discussing the Quebec lot here I defaulted to that, recognising that it wouldn't be what the event was ultimately called. As far as I'm aware, Brian and Ceppy were in touch with the Quebecois lot from the word go regarding names and video acknowledgements etc and they're happy. They're forthright not to need 3rd parties to make complaints on their behalf if any aspect of what we've done has upset them! |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: oldstrings Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:21 AM A minor grumble only, Rob Naylor! The performance itself had the essence of everything I think important in taking the music (back) to the people. Dancing with gay abandon (in the original sense) also contributes greatly to the project. |
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Subject: RE: Commando Trad Liverpool 23rd October From: Les in Chorlton Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:50 AM This kind of event is one of the best ideas in long time. Apart from the music and the dancing I think the driving force is 'drama'. The unexpected - both music and setting, the building of the music, the appearance of the musicians and dancers, the crescendo of sound and the fading away of the whole company at the end. Drama is the difference between quality theatre or TV and daytime TV. As somebody once said sudden prayers make god jump and let a thousand flowes bloom - but the magic ingrediant needs to be drama and this kind of event has great potential Best wishes to all L in C# |
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