performing in churches ?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:53 AM

"In all honesty, I feel that if I enter a "church", I am giving validation to that faith/sect/denomination,cult/congregation"

Absolute rubbish - it's about having fun.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:08 AM

The last time I had "fun" in a church, I was 14, and she was 15! (bad bad bob)

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:12 AM

"Does anyone know how I can find a list of churches in the UK that hold performance nights?"

Sue, I can't answer that question. But you often get churches in towns that hold free afternoon concerts, usually more classical stuff. But I have wondered whether any folk singers or musicians have done anything like that?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM

As the pastor of a church (in Canada, not in the UK) I can say that whenever we get requests from people who want to rent our facility to hold concerts, we say 'yes' (as long as the timing doesn't conflict with our own events).

Sue, if you want to hold a concert in a particular church, just ask.

Tim

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

Currently on tour in churchs and cathedrals. They're just venues and every village/town/city has one.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:33 PM

Thanks CS and Tim. But was wondering about arranging something from afar - maybe do a little church tour? so a list of concert-friendly churches would be useful. Thought there might be such a thing somewhere.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:36 PM

As an Orthodox Jew I am forbidden to enter a church for any purpose whatsoever.

which, given that the Jewish Scriptures and most of their commentaries predate the existence of churches, strikes me as pretty weird. How did the prohibition start?


This ban also extends to any church affiliated facilities such as a Catholic high school gymnasium or auditorium where crucifixes or statues of the Virgin Mary are prominently displayed.

I once went on a computer training course at a centre which once been a posh Catholic school. Their machine room was the former chapel, and the plaster statues were still there looking over the mainframes. Seemed rather fitting.


It falls under the prohibition of idolatry.

It shouldn't, because you can be in the same building/city/universe as an idol without worshipping it.


You mention that you are a pastor of an Anglican church. Do you think it's possible that there are some people in your community that couldn't bring themselves to go through your doors?

The last time I encountered that one in Scotland, it was a Presbyterian art history student who couldn't bring herself to go through the door of a Pisky church to look at its architecture.


The things that give me the creeps are military shrines. I'm not going to make a point of pissing on them like the woman who made the news a few weeks ago, but as far as I'm concerned they're no less suitable objects to be pissed on than any other piece of outdoor masonry, and I am certainly not about to do anything ever which conveys any indication of public respect towards them. There are usually buskers beside the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Edinburgh who completely ignore the thing. Good for them.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: meself
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

A "Pisky" church?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 02:32 PM

As in e-PISC-opalian. (If "Pisky" isn't in the Mudcat Scots glossary, it ought to be).

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 03:05 PM

When Bob and I first decided to do the reunion concert in October of 2007, the original idea was that it was to be a house concert. A friend of ours offered his house as the venue (often has house concerts there), but the living room was up a flight of stairs

Now, I'm currently getting around in a wheelchair and, as Lionel Barrymore (whose wheelchair didn't slow down his movie career as a character actor) said in a line in a "Dr. Kildare" movie way back, "You will note that this chair has neither wings nor an aeroplane motor! Of course, bring the patient downstairs!" To perform in this person's living room would involve having a couple of bully-boys lug me and my chair up a flight of stairs. I've had this routine done before, and a couple of times, I've damn near been dropped! Not keen on somersaulting down a flight of stairs and having my wheelchair land on top of me (I don't bounce like I used to), I asked my wife, Barbara to check it out. She did, and vetoed it because of the configuration of the stairs.

So. Alternative venue. I had gone to a number of concerts at Central Lutheran Church (complete with easy wheelchair access). One, an early music singing group, who included a few songs from D'Urfey's "Pills to Purge Melancholy," from which Ed McCurdy got most of the songs he recorded on his "Dalliance" series. No problem. Another by a lute duet. Still others by singers and small ensembles of various kinds.

I have also attended many concerts at other churches. Without being sermonized or feeling that I was sanctioning or supporting the doctrines of the churches these concerts were held in. They were buildings, almost all with excellent acoustics, generally with no need for amplification.

I was highly impressed with the acoustics of Central Lutheran Church. High ceiling, a bit of reverb, but not excessive. The church has the characteristic of making a twelve or fifteen voice choir sound as rich and full as a much larger choir. I had long wanted to sing there.

In addition, the house concert venue would have severely limited the possible size of the audience. Central Lutheran Church is a small church compared to many, but it has a capacity of 200. And further, Barbara and I are both members of the church.

[At this point, I will not go into my religious beliefs or lack thereof, but I am impressed by the mission the church has chosen for itself. Members do not accost you on the street and try to save your soul, nor do they come and ring your doorbell. It is a liberal church, and is deeply involved in such things as free meals (no, you don't have to listen to a sermon to get a free meal) and finding low-cost housing for low income and homeless folks. And there are many other programs that the church sponsors, including Alternatives to Violence workshops in nearby prisons, and it is the national headquarters of the Lutheran Peace Fellowship. Belonging to this church allows Barbara and me to maximize our efforts along these lines.]

Another advantage of using this church was it's central location on Seattle's Capitol Hill, complete with free parking lot next door, and easy to get to by bus.

Yet another was that since Barbara and I are members, we got to use the church without charge (along with a bit of free advertising in the form of a notice of the concert in the church's monthly newsletter and a mention in that Sunday's bulletin. Some members of the congregation did come, and they paid, along with everyone else.

We also got free use of the parish house next door for a reception after the concert. Got a chance to become reacquainted with a number of old friends I hadn't seen for years.

Despite the usual church decor in the form of a cross behind the altar (where we sang) and a stained glass window depicting of Jesus (typical Renaissance image) in a gesture of blessing, I don't think our singing there resulted in anyone's conversion—with the except for one young man who said afterward that he had suddenly gaining a strong interest in traditional folk songs.

And it was only right that I slip a small gratuity to the custodian for staying over and tidying up after the concert.

But the church did not receive a single dime because of our performance that afternoon. As I said, we had the use of the church and the parish house at no cost—and no profit to the church.

To some extent, I can see where Bob's misgivings come from. As I understand it, he had some pretty unpleasant encounters early on with the more hard-charging, heavy-duty, industrial-strength Pentecostal-type religious beliefs (it's a mortal sin to have fun, like, say, going to a movie with all the other kids), so with that background, I certainly don't blame him for getting totally turned off. But then, I shouldn't try to speak for Bob. He is obviously quite capable of speaking for himself.

There ARE churches that I would not perform in because of the nature of the minister, the congregation, and the interpretation of religion promulgated there. Especially if they tried to insert a "commercial" before, during, or after my performance. However, I have never felt that by attending a concert, or for that matter, singing a concert in a church—as long as there was no interference or input from the church itself into the program—was in any way supporting the theology and activities of that particular church

It's a building, which because of it's theater-like layout, can easily be used as a concert hall. And churches generally have quite good acoustics.

Don Firth

P. S. Just an aside. While attending music classes at the Cornish School of the Arts (a sort of conservatory in Seattle) in the early 1960s, one of the profs was a church organist, and he took the class out to the large Episcopal Church where he plays for Sunday services. Bloody big pipe organ, organ pipes ranging from smaller than a penny-whistle to as big as a tree trunk. Prof. Cowell demonstrated various aspects of the organ, the bank of manuals (keyboards), pedals (deep bass notes), stops, double stops, different effects. Most impressive!

We were standing around the organ console, a forest of pipes on either side of us, when Prof. Cowell launched into Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor. OY!!

Professor Cowell mentioned afterward that while playing "the music of God," and with all that brute power at his or her fingertips, all too often the organist tends to forget who is Whom!!

He also mentioned that many well-known organists tend to have impressive-sounding names. Such as E. Power Biggs!

One of the students asked, "What does the 'E' stand for?"

Came the inevitable voice from the back of the class:   "Enormous?"

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 04:55 PM

Sue:

If you are wanting to investigate Church of England churches that allow their facilities to be used for concerts, one place to start would be with the diocesan offices. The Church of England is divided into forty-four separate dioceses (the singular is 'diocese'). You can find a list of them with links to their web pages on this page. Clicking on the link for an individual diocese will lead you eventually to its web page, where you will usually find contact information for the diocesan office.

Tim

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:32 PM

Sorry, should have continued to say that the diocesan offices might have information about which individual churches in their diocese rent their buildings out for concerts.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:38 PM

I've performed in several churches including St.Martin's in the Fields, which had the Folk Club in the crypt.
I've also done a gig in Well's Cathedral cloisters.

The acoustics can be marvelous, or you can have echo problems, but they are usually designed with acoustic performance in mind.

Ethically, I want to know where the proceeds are going and I may reject a gig because of that, but if it is for the upkeep of the building then that is going to preserve my heritage, regardless of the religion involved.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:44 PM

Scroll down this page to see a picture of Kansas City's amazing new Performing Arts Center. Yes, I agree that it looks like a piece of pasta. However, it is a very expensive piece of pasta - $400,000,000
worth.

It is being funded privately, although the City helped with the parking structure. It has been under construction for a long time, and two men have died working on it. (I've got to wonder whether the crazy shape had something to do with their rig tipping over.)

Anyhow, we the people of Kansas City are all being asked to pay for this thing, but there is no space there for a small concert. (By small I mean less than 1000 people.) Once there was provision for such things, but as soon as the big okay was given, the small venues were dropped from the plans. The wing with the small halls has been replaced by a grassy lawn, which will of course attract hoboes.

So, when we bring a band to town, where do we put on the concert? At a church. A church has what we need; seating, restrooms, parking, and a place to play - maybe even a stage - in the front.

The church people are friendly and co-operative. But the media, the suits and the government run the gamut from uninterested to contemptuous. They don't want to hear the music of their ancestors.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:28 PM

Many thanks, Tim, that's very helpful.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 10:56 AM

Oops, I said 'Scroll down this page..." but the URL isn't there. Here it is:

http://www.kauffmancenter.org/TheBuilding/default.aspx

Now you can see what's cutting edge in Cowtown.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 04:28 PM

I've only just now agreed to fiddle for a joint birthday party for our vicar and her Methodist Minister colleague. Come on anybody -why shouldn't I? (You'll no doubt tell me anyway!)


Chris

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 05:40 PM

It's an excellent idea. Go for it.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: dwditty
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

hmmmm, Chris. This is indeed a slippery slope - does recognition of a birthday support creationism or evolution? One must be extra diligent in such matters...

All kidding aside, fiddle away and have a great time!

dw

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:34 PM

I went to a Bill Staines concert (about three months back) which took place in a church (United) because the day before the concert the hall he was scheduled for became unavailable. Hadn't seen Bill in over 35 years, so I walked over and said, "Hi, Father Staines." He laughed and a few minutes later he began to sing. The acoustics were great--as was Bill. I liked the church setting because the sound was darned good. Sitting in a church doesn't make ya religious any more than standing in a garage makes ya a mechanic, fwiw. Bill wasn't pushing any agendas, and many folks who went were from other churches or atheists. We weren't there for Jesus--just so see and hear Mr Staines. A building is a building. Again, fwiw.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:36 PM

Sang in a choir gig in a local Anglican church the other day, mostly backing singer and her band but some of our own songs first. Acoustics were really superb. Could sing into our own sound coming back at us in harmony. As for we basses getting our own voices echoed from the back wall after we'd stopped, it sounded pretty impressive.

Replying to the original poster, some of the choir are less than keen on churches as such - that said, at least one such took part. My impression is that most of us are sensibly relaxed one way or the other - just no point in agonising in either direction.

I can appreciate that one might possibly be a little less relaxed about it were it a more fundamentalist church or in a context where people observed keenly who went where.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 06:38 PM

Never really had these reservations. When I was in my teens, & even more insecure about my singing voice than I am now, I used to yearn to perform in our local church, by way of joining the 'folk' group that played there every week. It was an Anglican church with a fairly sizeable congregation, so the group regularly got a couple of numbers in while Communion was being administered, and maybe a third while the Lord's table was being cleared afterwards. But I never admitted to anyone that I could sing, and they never asked, so it was not to be.

In retrospect I think it was probably a lucky escape; their material wasn't terribly inspiring, and at times it was downright inappropriate. One week they did John Denver's "Goodbye Again": very pretty, but not really suited for the middle of a church service.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 05:01 AM

Stortfolk had until recently their Folk club in a Church in Bishop's Stortford.

Colchester folk club is in a Church.

Mike Absolem had a folk club in a Church too in London Ooooh So many years ago. (early sixties) I'm sure there are others.

Chas

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 05:37 AM

At Bromyard F F this year, Liz and I were asked to sing in the parish church. Liz had more misgivings than I but we sent off a list of appropriate songs and were asked to perform, 'Down in Yon Valley' (American version of the Corpus Christi Carol) and Judas (Child 23). The latter again worried Liz since it excuses Judas and berates St. Peter. (We were in St Peter's church). The way you feel in a church is due to belief sure but also to upbringing. Liz's parents were staunch non-conformists which mine were a bit more casual in their beliefs. For my part I felt t was important not to upset the sensibilities of the local and regular worshippers but at the same time also wanted to contribute to the important link between the festival and the town in which it happens. As it happened all went well and the songs were well received. For our part it was a lovely opportunity to sing in an ancient and beautiful building. Stressful? Oh yes!

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 06:02 AM

I sang the Corpus Christi Carol once in a church in Jarrow as a solo spot in a concert given by the North East Recorder Orchestra. It is a big Victorian Church and the acoustics were wonderful. It gave you feedback and you could simply relax and let your voice come out.

It was well received by the audience, btw as was the concert as a whole. We usually do concerts on a shared takings basis with the venue and they will help by doing the publicity, producing the tickets and providing interval refreshments. It works well for everyone, and although I have no strong religious belief, I have no problems with this kind of arrangement.

In the UK, at least in my part of it, churches, church halls and village halls are the kind of venue which most amateur groups will use for performances as they are affordable. Small scale professional performances often take place in these kinds of venues as well as in pubs for similar reasons.

The kind of situation leeneia described in Kansas occurred here in Stockton-on-Tees when they knocked down a small arts centre and replaced it with a fancy theatre/concert hall and in the process pushed out the amateur groups that used to use the old centre. Ironically the new venue almost went bust within months of opening, though it was reprieved and is doing OK.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 10:06 AM

Here you are Swedish dancers in Church This was at the Saltö Festival in September

Chas

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 11:53 AM

God likes that kind of stuff.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Stewart
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 12:21 PM

Swedish dancers in Church!

That would never have happened in
Norwegian Lutheran churches in
rural S.E. Minnesota, where I used to live.

Until recent times (perhaps even still)
the violin was an instrument of the devil
and dancing was a mortal sin.

Quite amazing!

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Stewart
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 12:41 PM

But then they're Swedes,
not Norwegians!

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 03:40 PM

Huge difference.

Chas

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 04:11 PM

Just an aside:

The idea that Scandinavians are all humorless may be a bit of an exaggeration. A bumper-sticker recently seen in Seattle's Ballard District:

Norwegian Driver
Thank You for Not Laughing!
Don Firth

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 05:18 PM

I was raised Lutheran in SE Wisconsin, and nobody in my church had ideas like that. We loved music and enjoyed life.

I do believe that in the olden days fewer people would have associated the fiddle with the devil if electronic tuners had been available.
=============
Hi, Tootler. Nice to hear from a kindred spirit. Was your expensive new center shaped like a piece of pasta too?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Stewart
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 06:55 PM

This is an excerpt from reminisces of a musical Norwegian-American family growing up in rural northern Wisconsin.

"Traditional Norwegian folk music was intended for dancing....many conservative Norwegian Lutherans looked on dancing as an absolute abomination and the folkdance music was literally regarded as "the music of the devil." The rural folk dances were of course lively affairs where drunkenness and fighting were all part of the scene... and even though the Berntson family was by nature a quiet and mild mannered bunch, the minister of the local Norwegian Lutheran Church was not the person one wanted to see pulling into the driveway when a music session was underway. The organ itself was considered by many to be an instrument for playing hymns and religious music...to use a sacred instrument in the playing of the devil's music then was in the minds of some, a moral outrage."

Although the Norwegian Lutheran churches in southeastern Minnesota were probably even more conservative, they have become more liberal in recent years. There is a lovely 1862 stone church (on the National Historic Register) in Valley Grove, MN, near St. Olaf College where I taught for 28 years. It is now administered by a local historic preservation society and is used for musical concerts of all types. It is a fantastic acoustic space for music. But I seem to recall some controversy about it's use as a music venue before the historic society took it over. I would have no problem performing there (in fact, I would love to), even though I am an ex-Lutheran and lapsed Unitarian (a half-way house to kick the religion habit - it seemed to work).

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 07:31 PM

STEW ... I VOWED TO QUIT THIS THREAD! But ... you have to explain to me the full ... and complete meaning of ... "A LAPSED UNITARIAN!" bob(dekman)nelson

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Stewart
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 08:16 PM

Bob, don't worry, this thread still has a lot of tread left on it, and I won't let you off that easy.

Lapse - 1. a small error. 2. a moral slip. 3. falling into a lower condition. 4. a passing as of time. 5. the termination of, as a privilege through failure to meet requirements. (Webster's Dictionary) Take your pick.

As I said in the parenthesis - a half-way house to kick the religion habit.

Anything else you want to know? We can keep this going for quite a while. It's your turn.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: dwditty
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 08:17 PM

What motive does one have to start a thread and then quit it? Perplexed.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 11:02 PM

I ran out of Vodka!

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:55 AM

As one who spends a lot of time examining the finer details of medieval churches, I also appreciate them in terms of their acoustics - especially if undampened by carpets! Check out my adventures as SUNDOG for field-recordings I've made in various churches and there's a Black Sea Fiddle improv HERE (track 4) recorded in in St. Swithin, Launcels last year which is as much church as it is fiddle.

Also this, from St. Margarets, Cley-next-the-Sea back in July. Shite sound, but you get the idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVB9zrG9Xgs

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 10:47 AM

Hello, S O'P

I was visiting Lincoln Cathedral one day. (I'm an alto.) I said something to my husband and was amazed to hear the space around me resonate with my voice. Later I realized that it was the bay, not the entire cathedral, that resonated.

I have two friends who are church musicians. They will say of a church that "It's an alto church," or a tenor or a soprano church, depending on which voices it resonates to.

Do you have any experiences like that?

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 10:51 AM

I tried to play your piece from York Minster, but nothing happened.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: meself
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 11:59 AM

What was supposed to happen? Was the devil supposed to appear an offer to buy your soul?

Just wondering ....

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 12:12 PM

Fylde festival, holds a festival in the local Methodist Church, with singers from the festival, Lancaster {Roman C.} cathedral holds concerts of various forms of music, one most memorable being 'The New Scorpian Band' who performed a Mummers play!

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 01:09 PM

I was visiting Rosslyn Chapel a while ago and tried the acoustics of the crypt. The music that immediately came to mind was the mediaeval chant "Vexilla Regis". I sang a couple of verses - meanwhile upstairs, some other visitors asked my girlfriend what the choir was.

When I can borrow a good digital recorder from somewhere, I'll go back and do some guerrilla recording on ocarina or alto flute.

The best echo in Britain is at the mausoleum of the Dukes of Hamilton, near Hamilton in western Scotland. Longer and stronger than St Pauls Cathedral. The building is a hollow tower like a great big salt shaker. The echo is so powerful you can't think of playing tunes, instead you do very slow-moving chord progressions built up out of your own echoes. It's full of Masonic symbolism, which I guess opens another can of worms. I've quite often been at music events in Masonic halls.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:40 PM

Thanks for the interesting stories, Jack.

Last week I heard a Mozart clarinet concerto in St Josaphat's church in Milwaukee. It is huge, high, and intricate.

In the middle of the concerto the clarinet played acapella and set that great space to reverberating. It was beautiful and remarkable.

Tell you what - I'll look up the Hamilton mauseoleum and you look up St Josaphat's Milwaukee Wisconsin. The building has an unusual history which may tickle your fancy.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Deckman
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:40 PM

Well ... I'm making a liar out of myself. I had vowed to quit this thread, but several posters have lured me to back into it.

When you recognize that a "church" is a building ... and it is built by humans ... that what it is ... A BUILDING BUILT BY HUMANS. Yet many people, even on this thread, have referred to the "holyness" ... the "sacredness" of the building. And indeed, it's that very mysteque (sp?) that I reject.

If a building, built by humans, succeeds in being acoustically good ... does that mean that it has become "holy" ... or something else?

Part of the reason, as Don Firth alluded too, I started this thread was a "church"experience I has when I was 12. I had to spend that summer away from my home and I lived with a Grandfather. He also happenned to be an elder in a Pentecostal church, in Vancouver, Washington. I was studying piano at the time, and my Grandfather obtained permission from the preacher for me to continue my piano lessons by playing the church piano.

That only lasted TWO DAYS ... the preacher's wife heard me practising my scales, and some simple Chopin ... and gave the orders that I was NO LONGER WELCOME to use the church piano ... my music was "TOO WORLDLY!"

I don't like to walk into churches anymore ... I don't care how good the folksinger is! Bob (deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:50 PM

You are denying yourself the pleasure of music and good company because of something one person supposedly said when you were a child?

I believe that's calle 'cutting off your nose to spite your face.'

======================
I've learned more about the Hamilton mausoleum and palace (now defunct).

"Like much of the Hamilton Estate, the mausoleum was struck by subsidence, due to the removal of the coal beneath."

Did the Hamiltons get the profits from the short-sighted coal mining? There's got to be a good song in that.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 06:24 PM

I sing with a chorus who perform mostly in churches, simply because there is a lack of decent halls with suitable space for a choir with over 30 members, with or without orchestra, that can be hired for less than an MP's expense account. Even some of the churches we sing in charge many hundreds of pounds (last time I checked, St Martin in the Fields, Trafalgar Square, London, was asking for a four-figured sum and you have to be invited to book). Admitedly, we do sing mostly religious music, but we recently did a programme of West End Show-stoppers, in a church, which garnered one of our best audiences yet.

As a Christian, I have no qualms about performing in churches, so long as others recognise that it is a place of worship and show it the due respect as I hope I do to churches that are not 'mine'.... but oddly enough, I do have a twinge of something with the issue of charging to hear a concert of music for the Mass. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable charging people to hear what should be reserved as an act of worship but I console myself with the knowledge that the money raised from ticket prices is split between a couple of registered charities.

If you feel uncomfortable performing in a church, then just don't accept gigs in a church, regardless of what your beliefs, your upbringing, your inclination or your affiliation may be. If it makes you uncomfortable, you won't perform to the best of your ability and that is unfair to the paying public.

LTS

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: dwditty
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 06:40 PM

For a look at some great upcoming shows in a church, see the Pierpont Concert thread.

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: GUEST,Emjay -- lost my cookie
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 07:52 PM

Bob -- We call ours The Meeting House. We are a congregation of very lapsed American Baptists to borrow from Stweart. We also don't have great acoustics since our Meeting House was once a private home. We do have a few who sing loudly, though. The only things approaching religious paraphernalia are a few banners -- one is a rainbow making THAT statement.
No one ever passes a plate, hardly anyone ever asks for money unless it's to say, "I think it's your turn to buy dinner," and you would be welcome to sing there.
There are churches -- I can think of a few -- I would walk across the street to avoid and there were times I wouldn't have visited the White House because of the occupants.
Martie

Subject: RE: performing in churches ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 08:47 PM

The Hamiltons owned huge areas of coalfield in southwest Scotland. A lot of the coal in that area is in shallow seams, and the ground is often wet. There was one appalling disaster when the miners struck upwards into a swamp. The mine owners' surveying and design could be pretty slapdash.

I think what's happened around the mausoleum is that the whole area around it has sunk. Last time I tried to visit it, there had been heavy rain, and the mausoleum was sitting inaccessibly in the middle of a lake which was normally parkland. Taking a few feet of coal out from under a flat plain tends to do that.

I'll look at your basilica pictures when I get to a faster computer. From what I can see, it seems to be intended as a replica of the basilica of Assisi, and coincidentally I got a book about that today. It has one musically interesting item: in the chapel of St Martin attached to it, there is a fresco by Simone Martini from 1316-ish depicting the life of St Martin, which has two musicians playing - one has a stringed instrument midway between a cobza and a mandolin, the other is playing a double pipe like the Sardinian launeddas or Greek aulos (the painter even got the rectangular fingerholes right). Unusual sound to hear in a church, if the painting implies that.