BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*

Subject: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:40 AM

I do not like the idea of nuclear power, but of course what i like and what the UK needs or wants is IMHO out of my control.

What really pisses me off is that Scotland is excluded from NP.

Quote from the news

The list of potential sites is confined to England and Wales as the Scottish government has said it is opposed to future nuclear expansion.

The sites are Bradwell and Sizewell in the east of England, Oldbury and Hinkley Point in the southwest, Hartlepool in the northeast, Heysham and Sellafield in the northwest of England, and Wylfa in north Wales.

End of quote

WTF. Are we in England so stupid. Scotland seems to me to be getting all freebies and exclusions, whilst we in England once again have to bear the brunt. I don't make comment for Wales as I am English.

Discuss

I'll get me wind turbine going.

hrmmmph

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 09:20 AM

Here you may find an answer.
We have different priorities in Scotland, and remember this, it's not your back yard that's got Trident submarines parked in it.
Nor yet is it true that you have jet fighters flying overhead at 150 feet, on 'training' exercises, shaking your house to the foundations. Then of course, there's the live shells being fired at Cape Wrath, in one of the most beautiful parts of Scotland.
Make no mistake about it my arthritic friend, we carry our share of the burden.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:28 AM

Blimey that was a lot of writing John :-)

I am well aware of things in Scotland, having lived up there. However "the Scottish government has said it is opposed to future nuclear expansion" does not wash with me and is no reason for Scotland being excluded.

I am opposed to future nuclear expansion etc in England. So does that count.

Does nuclear radiation help arthritus?

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:42 AM

John McK: come to Cumbria(in England, just) if you want to see low flying jets training. Prince William got photographed by one of the anoraks who sit in some special place(up Dunmail Raise?) where you can photograph the pilots in their cockpits coming beside you very close.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM

Arthur just think of all the electricy England can sell them when it finally dawns on them that all those Wind Turbines ain't delivering.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:50 AM

Border raids from Scotland can gain enough enriched uranium to make Scotland a nuclear power. Highlanders can go down to the plants and flip up their kilts or threaten to play the pipes and the guards will run. Scotland gets nuclear weapons...plus bagpipes. Och, mon, thair comin' fer ye.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM

"Nor yet is it true that you have jet fighters flying overhead at 150 feet, on 'training' exercises, shaking your house to the foundations. Then of course, there's the live shells being fired at Cape Wrath, in one of the most beautiful parts of Scotland."

Not strictly correct, John.

The Trent Valley (which is where I live) has a number of operational RAF bases close by, and has, for a very great many years, been a designated low-flying training area for RAF fast jets, and for the training aircraft from nearby Cranwell and the RAF bases adjacent to the A1 in Yorkshire. We also have the Red Arrows based on our doorstep at Scampton, and the RAF's AWACS fleet of modified Boeing 707s at nearby at Waddington. Additionally, for many years the TV was used by the USAF for low-flying training of their A-10 'Tank-Buster' aircraft, so we're well used to the roar of jet engines and aircraft low enough to read the name-tag on the pilot's flying-suit.

And, of course, when they were operational Vulcan bases, the country's main stock of Blue Steel stand-off nuclear bombs and other nuclear devices were stored at Scampton and Waddington (both of which are only six or seven miles from the center of Lincoln).

Live firing and bombing is also carried on at Donna Nook, on the Lincolnshire coast.

But I agree with your judgment re: the beauty of Scotland! The Lincolnshire Backwoods don't quite match the grandeur of your country! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:11 AM

Great post Rapaire made me laugh my FAO

Smack on BWM. Scotland is very beautiful and I enjoyed my time up there.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

Yes, I am well aware of the suffering endured by others regarding low flying,[RAF Valley et.] but my post was in relation to Scotland.
Where we lived before we moved here, was on the southern slopes of the hills overlooking Loch Ness. We could look down on the planes as they flew low along the loch. Local legend had it, that they opened the lock gates on the Caledonian Canal at Fort Augustus, to let them jets through :)

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:33 AM

I just posted a thread here and it's disappeared! Took me ages to compose too and I can't be bothered doing it all again!

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:37 AM

What did it say Arnie?

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:45 AM

Are we in England so stupid.

Which nation just elected the Tories?

Scotland certainly didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM

Unfortunately, the Labour and Liberal parties are no better, Jack. It needed a change from Gordon Brown. I still feel that if he had resigned 6 months before the elections, Labour may well have stayed in power.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:53 AM

Right Arthur - I've calmed down so will have another go.

Here in Kent, the Dungeness nuclear power station is coming to the end of it's shelf life and the locals want a new nuclear power station to replace it - unfortunately they've missed out. This is mainly because most of the locals are employed in the power station and now will be joining the ranks of the unemployed. However, to offset this we also have what I think is the world's largest offshore wind farm. Unfortunately East Kent is not noted for strong winds and the blades don't seem to be turning for much of the time. The problem with wind power is that you need a back-up energy source for the days when the wind don't blow. On a quiet day, standing on the shore, you can just about hear the song of the wind farm engineers tending their windmills out to sea;-

Blow ye winds in the morning
Blow ye winds hey ho
Haul aboard your running gear
And blow, boys blow.....

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:57 AM

That's not so good Arnie, especially if your community are reliant on employment in the nuclear power industry. Doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:05 PM

That's not a bad point Arthur. The nuclear power industry employs hundreds at each station and they in turn support a lot of local industries with their spending. Dungeness is a bit of a bleak outpost with no real local industry. A wind-farm only supports a few dozen engineers and they may well not be local anyway. To make matters worse, we have no facility for building the windmills in the UK so they are all brought in from places like Germany and/or Scandinavian countries. I suppose it's a lose-lose situation for the likes of the Dungeness employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:59 PM

All I can say is 'good for Scotland' and they still have free tuition there too. Maybe I'll find myself parked up there one day, it's certainly got it's attractions.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:52 PM

Its exclusive. You have to live there to get free tuition.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 02:30 PM

I do not think Scotland has always been 'excluded" from NP though. Many years ago BNFL had a plant on the northern coast at Dounrey? Huntarston and Torness I think still have output but I am not sure.

Due to a new way of trying to persuade local populations to take on nuclear power plants and the consequent reprocessing the government has been involved in the Swedish model using 'volunteerism'. By being transparent and honest to populations where reactors are hoped to be built, they work in co-operation with the councils keeping the population on board with the good and the bad. Some councils actually want the reactors as thy bring work in often areas of high unemployment and this also helps get the population on side. Volunteerism means that reactors will not be put where people do not want them and it should be they are welcomed in the communities they are placed. This new model depends on inclusion rather than making people have them. Co-operation wit the loacl people, as in the Swedish experience, pays dividends. Perhaps this is why some of the sites chosen have been chosen?

I have just done a quick search on the WWW but cannot find references to this, sorry. If I do I will post at a lter time

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:03 PM

As far as I am concerned, Scotland can do what it likes.After all, it now has its own well-established National Assembly, and who knows ???---one day ,we English might get one also !! Meanwhile, we must accept the fact that Scotland has more windy areas than do we, and certainly more fast-flowing rivers and streams, suitable for hydro-electric power generation than, for example, East Anglia or Somerset.
      Under the circumstances,I applaud their decision to eschew the building of nuclear facilities in their still relatively-unspoilt countryside. OK, it's a shame about the SSBNs in The Holy Loch,the military airfields at Leuchars, Lossiemouth & Kinloss,and the Marines at Arbroath, but without the enormous financial input by the personnel from these bases,the Scottish economy would collapse ( and no true Scotsman wants that !!).
          So ,good for you, Bonny Scotland ; but please don't ask for power from OUR nuclear power-plants ,should the wind drop in the future !! Your "Auld Alliance" with France can help you there !

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:31 PM

Why cant they realise that we need less energy not more.

Is it easier to fuck the planet than to change our lifestyle?

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:34 PM

Scotland has no need for Nuclear Power, so why should they host it. No need for Nuclear Subs either, and they have to put up with those.

Independence isn't that all far off, I fancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 03:41 AM

Good

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 07:17 AM

We have an election next year, and I'm pretty sure the SNP will lose.
We are really a 2 party democracy here, SNP and Labour, with the odd Liberal thrown in like yeast, to leaven the mix.
We do have 16 lonely Conservative MSP's, led by the battleaxe known as Annabel Goldie.
So Independence isn't on the cards. Not that I favour it, I would prefer autonomous self government, as a member of a Federal UK.
Hopefully this federation would include regional governments for English regions too.
For too long government has been too remote from the governed. Both geographically, and mentally.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: allanc
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 09:37 AM

"I do not think Scotland has always been 'excluded" from NP though."

Quite so. Four out of the existing nineteen UK nuclear power stations (whether in or out of operation)are in Scotland. Hence Scotland has its share of nuclear power - not to mention being the base for the UK's nuclear fleet. The current Scottish SNP govt don't believe in further nuclear power. That govt could be out of office at the next election or they could be forced to accept some policies they are against in the form of a coalition. That is democracy. The SNP would be about the last people to support building nuclear power stations in England though (and their Westminster MPs normally abstain on issues not affecting Scotland anyway) hence why folk feel the need to winge at the Scottish govt bemuses me. Surely it is UK unionist parties who are supporting further nuclear power and the vast majority of their said members come from English constituencies. So what good does whining at the administration in Holyrood do? As far as power in Scotland goes I think as well as wind and normal hydro power goes there are also long term ideas about harnessing the massive potential of wave power.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Gutcher
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 10:37 AM

Well said allanc. It should also be pointed out that before the advent of wind power Scotland produced some 29% more electricity
than it used, the surplus going to England. I have no objection to
this but here is what sticks in the craw, we, the users in Scotland,
pay more per unit used than do our southern neighbours because we alone have to pay for the infrastructure in Scotland to get this surplus power to our neighbours.

Check out the various S.G. submissions on this to central government.

The only reason we can vetto new N.P. stations in Scotland is on
planning grounds. Another balls up (in our favour) by the mighty
Whitehall machine.
Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 10:46 AM

You're not giving it to England are you? It's being sold and even if the profits aren't going to Scotland (who does own Scottish Power?) then jobs are being created.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

I'm pedalling as fast as I can Paul!

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 11:54 AM

So Independence isn't on the cards.

That might depend on what the Westminster mob get up to. If the Condems get the bit between their teeth, while Labour rolls over and plays keep-up, the SNP, and a breakaway Scotland, might start to seem like a tempting option to a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 12:06 PM

That option is the gift of the Scottish electorate Kevin, and they haven't been asked yet.
The reason why they haven't been asked, is because Alex Salmond, doesn't think he'll get the answer he wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 12:21 PM

Does anybody know anything about this campaign?
I am keen on joining it, but do not want to get involved if it is not credible.

http://www.thecep.org.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Gutcher
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 12:57 PM

You miss the point Manitas,please explain to me why we, as surplus producers, have to pay more for a unit of electricity than our
southern neighbours. All the power produced goes into a national grid system and all should pay the same price per unit
Furthermore one has only to look at the daily weather forcast to see that here in the north consumers will have to use more power not less.

Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 01:50 PM

Well the price per unit depnds on who you buy from doesn't it? It's no good blaming the southern consumers for this. As for providing the infrastructure = that sort of goes with the production = we can't run our own cables to the point of production, it's not like going to the shops for good rather than having them delivered. Can't the Scottish Assembly legislate to stop discriminatory pricing?

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: GUEST,Allanc
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 01:59 PM

"Can't the Scottish Assembly legislate to stop discriminatory pricing?"

Scottish Assembly?

Subject: RE: BS: Scotland excluded on Nuclear Power WT*
From: GUEST,Allanc
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 02:01 PM

"The reason why they haven't been asked, is because Alex Salmond, doesn't think he'll get the answer he wants."

It also has a lot to do with the fact that the majority of MSPs won't give support to the SNP holding their referendum