BS: All benefits to be taxed

Subject: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 07:49 AM

These are the only benefits which are taxable in the UK:

•Bereavement Allowance (see EIM76173), replaced Widow's Pension from 9 April 2001
•Certain payments of Incapacity Benefit, see EIM76180
•Contributions based Employment and Support Allowance, see EIM76186
•Certain payments of Income Support, see EIM76190
•Pensions payable under the Industrial Death Benefit scheme, see EIM76200
•Carer's Allowance (formerly Invalid Care Allowance before 1 April 2003), see EIM76210
•Jobseeker's Allowance, see EIM76220
•the State pension, see EIM76160
•Graduated retirement benefit, see EIM74602
•Statutory Sick Pay, see EIM76350
•Statutory Maternity Pay, see EIM76360
•Statutory Paternity Pay, see EIM76370
•Statutory Adoption Pay, see EIM76380
•Widowed Parent's Allowance (see EIM76172), replaced Widowed Mother's Allowance from 9 April 2001, although WMA is still paid to widows whose entitlement arose before 9 April 2001(see EIM76177)
•Widow's pension paid to widows whose entitlement arose before 9 April 2001, see EIM76178.

That means one can stoke up quite an income from the others tax free - given the right amount of sponging quota, so there's something wrong I think. My earned income is ALL taxable.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:11 AM

I get less than £8 a day Carer's Allowance, to care for my 96 year old ex-mother-in-law. I am below the tax threshold in my earnings, because I have committments outside of work which mean I cannot work in a full time job.

You think it's OK for that under £8 a day to be taxed?

You have much to learn.
You should also count your lucky stars that you are lucky enough to be in the position you are, with enough income to enable you to live a comfortable life.

There are many out here who go to bed every night worrying their hearts out.

Not all are scroungers you know.

But then, I also understand that not all folks are up their own comfortable arses with bitterness and anger.

Tell me, Bonzo...are you the same guy who came to my Facebook page, the one who's been making all the BNP duplicate pages, who spewed out their bitterness about their daughter being married to an absolute scrounger, who got this and that allowance?   That person is from Mudcat and he congratulated me on a post I'd written, about England, can't recall which one now...telling me about his children and how they were using and absuing the system...

I explained to him how complicated and depressing the system can be for so many people, and it is anything *but* easy for most folks who find themselves inside it, for whatever reason.   They did not come back.

Most of those benefits above, are given to people who have so very little in the first place, and again, who are probably below the tax threshold anyway. They should not be taxed.

There are *always* exceptions to the rule. For instance, I'd imagine that you and your wife get the Winter Fuel Payment Allowance. I very much hope that, because of your views on scroungers, you ensure the money from that is sent back to the Government, with a letter telling them that you do not want, or need it, and to please ensure it goes to those far less fortunate than yourself.


Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:06 AM

No, all I am saying is that all income whether it be earned or by way of benefits should be taxed over and above the current tax threshold of £6,475. It just seems to me slightly unfair that a family where nobody is working can receive up to £26,000 in tax free benefits leaving no incentive to work whatsoever. Whether there is work or not is another matter.

My wife has been trying to get disability living allowance for the last 14 years for RSI caused by overworking by the NHS department where she worked - one which caters for drunks!!! Because she teaches Spanish to adults for 2 hours each week, they refuse the DLA on the grounds that although they recognise that the RSI was caused by the NHS, she could work full time teaching Spanish at the same rate - despite being 69 years old. The fact that there is no more teaching available in our area is neither here nor there!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: mauvepink
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:07 AM

We really need to move away from this idea that all people on benefits are scroungers. The majority are not and many of them have worked and paid their taxes in their time to allow for some help now, unlike some others.

Taking the high ground, especially at this moment is time, is temptingprovidence as none of us know when and if we are going to need some help from the benefits system. There will be lots less help for sure in this latest round of attacks on beneits but one can never say never.

There but for the grace of God go I. If you are not on any benefits be grateful you are in such a position. Please don't look down on those who deserve them and group them all in with those who are not entitled but get them. It adds insult to injury and, I reiterate, none of us can take the high ground here. We never know if it will happen to us.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: mauvepink
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:10 AM

Apologies. I obviously wrote and posted at the same time bonzo did and his explanation now makes far better reading than his initial post to which I replied.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM

Bonzo, I get £418.24 a month WAR DISABILITY PENSION, from being injured in the service of my Queen and Country, this is not taxable do you think it should be ?


Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:17 AM

Dave
Bonzo is saying
No, all I am saying is that all income whether it be earned or by way of benefits should be taxed over and above the current tax threshold of £6,475.

Unquote

So your War Disability Pension would not be taxed.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM

If there was gearing of tax rates on benefits, then all benefits could be made universal and the cost of means testing would be saved.

You'd need to reinstate the 10% band and introduce tax allowances for some conditions that made living more expensive. Essential items for disabled living (like a mobility scooter or motability vehicle) could be made tax deductible, and quite a range of support items and services should also be tax deductible.

If the benefits were universal they could be automatically paid, so ensuring that there was proper takeup and no-one went without.

Staff and funding saved from benefits assessments could join HMRC and pursue all evaders and avoiders - where it would be more beneficial to the country to pursue large evaders and avoiders than small ones.

I have elsewhere suggested salutary reforms to the tax system that should put tax accountants on the back foot.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:47 AM

Sounds good to me Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:11 PM

And it sounds good to me Richard as well.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:22 PM

Good heavens. There must be something wrong with it in that case, back to the drawing board...

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:33 PM

LOL Just occasionally Richard, you put your brain into positive action :-) Only kidding of course.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:36 PM

Richard.. don't belittle a good idea... There are sensible and even sensitive people on both sides.

Perspective makes friends and enemies. Common ground is a wonderful thing and gives me much hope.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:48 PM

One thing that needs to be done - and won't be done - is move the goal posts, so that the exotic tax-avoidance tricks would be reclassified as tax evasion.

The basic rule would be, unless you can demonstrate that your primary reason doing something that means you stand to avoid paying tax is not to avoid tax, it counts as tax evasion, and you stand to go to jail.

With criminal sanctions on the accountants and so forth who dream up such schemes.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:31 PM

And who will decide where the dividing line is - and where will HMRC find the staff to administer such a rule??

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Irene M
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:58 PM

I am a bit worried about the DLA disallowance for RSI.
There are plenty of people who are disabled, qualify for DLA because of their disability and are also able to work as well.
If you are profoundly deaf and need a carer to prod you at night if there is a fire or a caller, you need that care. Therefore you can qualify for DLA. You can get up, put your hearing aid in and go do a job. No problem. No conflict of interest. Disabled does not mean unable to work. If it did, we wouldn't have the Diasability Discrimination Act telling employers to make reasonable adjustments for their disabled staff.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 02:16 PM

I have been trying for 2+ years to get an ergonomic office chair (RA in my hips) but finally decided maybe it was better for me to be uncomfortable, because it forces me to get up and move around every half hour or so. Anyway, that's the county council being to stingy to provide a proper chair. Well not the CC but the service area I work for, as it comes out of their budget. So even service areas within the county council can be discerning about hiring people with disability because we can negatively affect their budgets.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:11 PM

So, VT, tell them about the DDA.

Are you in a union? If not JOIN NOW.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:35 PM

Well, I can't trace my plan to reform the principles underlying the tax system. It was either here or on fakebook. So, rephrasing: -

1. Rebuttable presumption that all commercial transactions will for tax purposes be deemed to have been done the simplest way. All transactions to be deemed to have been carried out in the UK (maybe HMRC to have a right so to elect). Withholding tax on ALL money paid out of the UK until proved not to have been needed. Use TUPE-alike rules to turn most consultants into employees for most tax and NI purposes. Banks to be obliged to report ALL transfers to Swiss, Liechtenstein, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, Cayman and Caribbean (oh, and Delaware) banks or other payees. All transfers through Bank of America or Bank of America International to be investigated. That should nail most tax schemes and get a load of criminal money laundering too.

2. Any accountant or lawyer advising on (or bank facilitating) a "tax scheme" to be jointly and severally liable for any tax found to ahve been properly due.

3. Re-introduce exchange control (overnight, with no warning, just like its abolition by the archbitch).

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:49 PM

I have been in the union since I started working for the council. Hubbie insisted since he is the chair of the union branch at his college.

I am aware of DDA as they are. There is no budget for it. Even less budget now.

They brought in some unwanted chairs from county hall that supposedly had all the adjustable bits, seat, back, air pumps for lower spine support and seat tilt. They were broken and left me feeling like I was being tipped forward out of the chair so I went back to the chairs that were purchased 10 years ago when they opened the building. Not suitable for long periods of desk work. Quite hard and only height adjustable. But as I said I should get up and move around.

They did give me VPN access in case I am in such condition that I can't work there. I can access most everything at home. VPN is usually reserved for managers only.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 06:33 PM

I don't care if they can afford it. Get the union jumping up and down about the DDA!

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:37 AM

My ideas for benefit reform:

Status quo for tax credits and statutory minimum wages for public secotr, voluntary sector and social enterprises.

Means test private sector business - those that can afford it (ie bigger businesses) pay higher rate of statutory minimum wage - up to tax credit cut-off point, with equivalent reduction in working tax credits.

This means that companies would have to pay a living wage and that the tax credit system would not allow rich companies to employ cheap labour at our expense.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM

Bottom line, as long as human beings are in charge, it will be fucked up.

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM

Minimum wage is per employee. WTC is worked on household. I don't see how that could be worked - although the govt is struggling with that on family allowances too. .

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 10:30 AM

Hi

If the start to tax all benefits they will need to create yet another benefit for poeple who have to pay tax the can't afford on their benefits.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: All benefits to be taxed
From: Irene M
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:10 AM

I agree with Kendall.