Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation

Subject: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 11:32 AM

Help! My American speech center has no frame of reference.

I am struggling with some lyrics for a song about my ancestor's Irish home. The modern Irish name is Aharney - and it comes from the Old Irish, Ath Charna; translated in a history I have read as "the ford of the heap."

This homestead, and the name attributed to it is an integral part of my family history. Can anyone tell me how both these modern Irish and Gaelic words are pronounced; Aharney and Ath Charna? Are there web services for this sort of translation?

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: K~~
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 12:54 PM

There are online Gaelic dictionaries. I know of one at www.ceantar.org/Dicts Sorry, but I've yet to read the thread on how to do the blue clicky thingy. My own experience shows that hearing Gaelic is better than trying to read it 'cause it usually looks a lot different than it sounds.

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: PJ Curtis
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 01:06 PM

Liam, Ath Charna...'Ath' is pronounced as 'Awe' or 'Ah'(Place..or 'Place of' and Charna is pronounced 'Carna' (Mound/Heap.). Hope this helps. PJC(The Burren, Co. Clare)

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 01:16 PM

thanks PJ - I had looked through the link provided by K~~ and the links to which it pointed, but found no joy!

Your help is most appreciated! I presume Aharney is pronouced as it is spelled; A har' nee ... long A or short? Accent on har?

Fogive my ignorance, but I've only read these words, never heard them spoken!

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 01:16 PM

Liam: I don't know how good it is, because I've not used it much, but THIS will take you to the Beginner's Guide to Gaelic Pronunciation.

And, HERE is a link to the one K~~ mentioned.

Have fun!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From:
Date: 27 Aug 99 - 09:01 PM

The way I would have pronounced the second word would be Harn-ah Where the H is a more gutteral sound coming from the back of the throat. Almost like the sound of someone clearing their throat.

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: PJ Curtis.
Date: 28 Aug 99 - 04:08 PM

Liam, The 'A' is long. Emphasis on 'HAR'. Now you have to visit and touch the earth of home. Slan Leat. PJC

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Aug 99 - 04:19 PM

PJ Curtis

Thanks for the update and help. I fully intend to visit and touch home, one day. Two of my three sons have visited, one on a soccer playing tour and the other on his honeymoon. My wife and I hope to visit in the next year or so. In the mean-time, I have been doing some homework, researching the family, a bit, and reading up on some of the history. My family has been in Kilkenny for generation/s prior to 1690, according to written record of that date. They are reputed to have returned with the Septs of Leix (7 clans banished by the English in 1608 and who returned some 50 years later). That is why I am interested in Aharney (and its earlier version; Ath Charna). This became the name of family's homestead in Kilkenny.

At any rate, your assistance is most appreciated!

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: Murray on Salt Spring
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 01:45 AM

The "H" sound is really an "aspiration" pf the C (K) sound in "carna"; and H is only the best approximation in "English" letters. Aspiration, which occurs all the time in Gaelic, both Irish and Scottish, is indicated by an "h" letter after the letter aspirated. In this case, it turns the "c" into a sound close to the Scots "ch" in "loch" or the German, as in "ach".

Subject: RE: Help with Gaelic lyric pronunciation
From: JedMarum
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 10:05 AM

So if I understand all of this correctly, the correct pronunciation for Ath Charna, for Kilkenny speaker would be: Ah (K)ar na - with the accent on the second syllable and with an aspiration of the K sound.

I have yet one more question to ask, and again please forgive my ignorance, since I've only seen these words written and never heard them spoken. The place name Ossory - how is pronounced? Long O, soft s, accent on which syllable?