BS: Any Archers out there?

Subject: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Phot
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:54 AM

I've recently taken up archery and wondered if there are any archers out there in Mudcat land? I shoot recurve (Tried a compound, didn't like it!), with a 30lbs pull. We have a 24/7 indoor range, all the kit you need is provided, so for the first time in 24 years in the forces I'm taking full advantage! I find it so relaxing at the end of a stressful day at work, its even lowered ny blood pressure!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:28 AM

Used to do Archery up to 6 yars ago when I injured my shoulder. Thinking of taking it up again though.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM

I took it up about 6 years ago, took the provincial bowhunter's course, got my hunting license endorsement, sold my kit for more than I paid for it. It is relaxing but I wouldn't hunt with a bow even if I hunted any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:54 AM

An Everyday Story of Toxophology ??

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:01 AM

Arthritis in my left shoulder queered that do years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: maeve
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

I loved archery years ago. Maybe it will become an option again.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Zen
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:24 AM

Yes, recurve as well. These days I prefer outdoor instinctive archery (target only... I do not hunt) rather than the Olympic style I used to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:26 AM

we have a member called ruth archer,I dont know about her skills with the bow and arrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:00 AM

Compound for me, but I was studying for hunting so it was a necessity.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:19 AM

Fortunatly, bowhunting is not legal in the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM

Loved to bow hunt but after I blew out my neck ... can't do that anymore. I toyed with the idea of a crossbow since I can legally use one but figured that wouldn't be the same. Now I just fish. I sure have seen some amazing deer taken in my lifetime. My buddie just got a 10 point whitetail that looks like a mule deer ... huge

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:08 AM

Well, olddude, I'm afraid I just can't quite get the killing for pleasure thing, and even if I did, I think I would at least use a weapon that was suitable for the purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:29 AM

No they hunt for the meat, I hear ya and respect your comment for sure . you are correct that there are many people who should not bow hunt . those I know are experts and don't do the wound thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:34 AM

In the years that I use to bow hunt, I never took a deer with a bow. I could have I am sure but never had a shot that I felt was clean enough so never used it. I did however love being out that time of the year ... beautiful in the early season

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Phot
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:07 AM

I don't do hunting either, just targets. I've seen the bow I would like to get (Hoyt Formula RX 27" riser and F3 limbs), but coming in at the thick end of £1000, and thats not including sights, arrow rest, arrows etc, its not going to be happening soon!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:13 AM

I saw the Hoyt ... man that is a work of art for sure ...

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: maeve
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:19 AM

Way out of my league. If I manage to find time and energy for a return to target archery, most likely I'd make my own from local materials.

The active bow hunters I know are responsible food hunters.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:54 AM

My cousin-in-law took a 9-foot-long Alaskan Brown Bear with a bow just this fall. From 12 yards. Yes, he took the skin but he also is going to be eating bear meat for a loooooooooong time. He also hunts (and eats) antelope over in Wyoming.

(About the bear: he had a partner armed with both a 12 gauge slug gun AND a .338 backing him up.)

I have a Bear 76er take-down recurve, 45 pound pull. I draw a 31 inch arrow, and damn it! I'm going to take up archery again! The local indoor range is only about a mile up the road -- and I'm retired now! Be good exercise for my shoulder.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:35 PM

I Would suggest that your cousin in law is a pretty sick indivdual.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Noreen
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

(About the bear: he had a partner armed with both a 12 gauge slug gun AND a .338 backing him up.)

The BEAR did? Scary...

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

Gee, GUEST Silas. I guess the bears and wolves were cleaned out of the UK with tranquilizer darts and transportation to another area -- perhaps France? I also assume you're a vegetarian, for as the old saying goes, "You are what you eat."

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: BTNG
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM

well of course, Noreen, after all the Americans do believe in the right to arm bears....at least I think that's how it goes......

BTNG

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:50 PM

Steve Tilston is an archer.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:00 PM

If my comments below offended vegetarians, I apologize. However, I'm fed up with this "Holier than thou" attitude a few choose to radiate. Our Guest obviously has no idea of how archery hunting works and lives in a place where the truly deadly animals were rendered extinct by his ancestors.

I do not live in such a place (nor do I hunt much anymore). But I carry a weapon when I hike into the mountains, not to kill an animal but to frighten them off if possible. Obviously our Guest has never come face-to-face in the wild with a mountain line (cougar, puma) or a bear of any sort, not to mention even a rabid raccoon or skunk or fox (rabies in endemic in the US). Yes, I do my best to prevent such encounters by making noise, etc. ("bear bells" are very effective, by the way).

I will hunt. I have nothing against ethical and legal hunting. But I am a "meat hunter", not a trophy hunter.

And I wish that this thread would now go back to archery.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: olddude
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM

You points are well taken Rap. If you grow up in a city , know nothing of the outdoors .. never left the pavement in your lifetime, ya can never understand hunting (for food). Where I grew up, deer season wasn't for the trophies, It was for 100+ pounds of meat that we did not have to buy !!!   And nobody I know goes around wounding anything. I never have ... Nor do I hunt anymore cause I am no longer going to eat that much deer meat ... you sure ain't going to hurt it if you aren't going to use it.   I catch a ton of fish nearly every time I go out. Kept 1 for my uncle ... the rest .. released unharmed ... I take the barbs off the flies so I don't injure the fish when I am just sport fishing. Most people I know do the same. Now as for archery, it requires a great deal of skill and practice and discipline before anyone should even think about hunting that way ... those I know have it ... freely admit some idiots do not and those should not be in the woods. But if you know nothing of what you are talking about then you shouldn't try throwing rocks ... I see that too much here.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: BTNG
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:20 PM

talk about slings and arrows...

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:27 PM

Mine's a pint of Shires

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Cats
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:04 PM

Hawker and Kev are both archers, give them a ring. kathy

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:53 AM

Like a lot of things I tried it once, target archery. The humans stood around were very afraid that day.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Ben Archer
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:06 AM

I'm an Archer, but I'm at the moment getting ready for the Ambridge Panto.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

Fantastic, how are things in Ambridge? I have lost touch with it just recently but look forward to the Panto as always.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:01 AM

I shoot Olympic Recurve. The Hoyt Formula is an interesting bow with those cantilevered ends but I would take the GMX for preference. Alas until the lottery win comes in I'm stuck with my gold medallist.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

Poster: Alan Whittle
"I shoot Olympic Recurve. The Hoyt Formula is an interesting bow with those cantilevered ends but I would take the GMX for preference."

Sounds bloody complicated!

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:37 AM

Doing Dick Whittington this year. As always, casting is a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:10 PM

Ben, get off the internet and go find Josh - it's almost time for tea.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

Guest, no it isn't complicated at all: load, aim and loose. Thats all there is to it. it can be expensive though, The Hoyt RX and the Hoyt GMX are the best recurve target bows currently in production. Either of them as Phot remarks above will cost you the thick end of a grand.

On the other hand if you want to hit the little yellow circle in the middle of the target every time, THEN it gets complicated :)

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: Phot
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:18 AM

After two 14 hour days at work, I couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo last night! 412 for a Portsmouth, my worst score since I started!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:27 AM

Silas... "... at least use a weapon that was suitable for the purpose."

That statement shows your ignorance of bow hunting.

That said, I feel no inclination to explain to you why your statement is incorrect. (= can't be arsed to bother.)

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:33 AM

OK Gnu, let's talk about this then, shall we?
If you really must kill animals for your own self-gratification, then at the very least you have a duty and responsibility to ensure that your 'kill' is as clean and efficient as possible. I would think even a moron would agree with that –no?
Now, let's have a look at bow shooting. In order to be anywhere near competent enough to shoot animals I think it reasonable to expect the archer to be able to group ten arrows consecutively within a 24mm circle at a distance of 30 metre – and to be able to do this time after time after time.
Now, depending on what sort of bow you use, you could easily be pulling a draw weight of 40lb plus. It is not possible to sustain this level of static weight for more than a few seconds without affecting the accuracy of the aim. Difficult enough on a static target, let alone a moving one.
So, now let's have a look at the things that can and frequently do go wrong. The archer can have a poor loose, to happens to all of us occasionally, the arrow could be miss-knocked, or an un-noticed broken or faulty knock could be used the knocking point on the string could slip, I have even known archers knock an arrow below the point instead of above it by mistake. The arrow could lose a fletch or be incorrectly fletched, or be knocked upside down. Are you aware of just how an arrow flies as it leaves the bow? The knock is trying to overtake the pile throughout the length of its flight making it inherently unstable. Even a slight side wind affects the flight, much more so than a bullet.
No, archery is not the way to shoot animals. If you must do it, use a high power rifle.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:53 AM

I'm ok with darts and I have hit the odd target with a gun but Archery, by the time I'd untangled the bow from a boob the arrow just drooped like my enthusiasm for it and after all that I missed.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:22 AM

Silas,

Most bow hunting (AFAIK - as bow-hunting is illegal in the UK so I'm going on published info) is done using a compound bow. This uses cams to store the load and means that the archer can hold the bow at full draw for long periods with relative ease (out of a 60lb draw weight perhaps 15lb is on the fingers) combined with a magnifying/self-levelling sight and a string peep this would enable a competent archer to group very tightly say, a dozen in a 2 inch circle. A mechanical release can also be used to smooth out variation in loosing. Because they make very little noise on release, bows do not startle the game and ensure cleaner kills. Arrows do not break up on penetration and bounce around inside the corpse like a bullet will.

For their highly precise accuracy compound shooters may not compete with olympic and longbow archers and two compound archers of my acqaintance both regularly score close to maximums.

Tough luck Phot, my worst Portsmouth this season was 460, though I'm averaging 490.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:03 AM

I am aware of compound bows and how they work and agree that the are better than recurve or flatbows for this purpose, however, the accuracy figures you quote are not good enough and there are still too many variables for it to be safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:31 AM

Know any nock nock jokes?

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:51 AM

My comments are in parentheses...

Silas... "If you really must kill animals for your own self-gratification (WRONG. I don't.),

then at the very least you have a duty and responsibility to ensure that your 'kill' is as clean and efficient as possible. (A bow is much "cleaner", more humane, except when an animal is shot with a gun in the brain or in the spinal column very near the brain. Many animals shot with a bow are unaware they have been shot and continue about thier business until they lay down and go to sleep.)

I would think even a moron would agree with that –no? (The only moron here is someone who is flappin bullshit on accounta they don't know what they are talkin about.)

Now, let's have a look at bow shooting. In order to be anywhere near competent enough to shoot animals I think it reasonable to expect the archer to be able to group ten arrows consecutively within a 24mm circle at a distance of 30 metre (Nobody shoots an arrow that far. Even with the 75# bow I trained on.)

– and to be able to do this time after time after time.
Now, depending on what sort of bow you use, you could easily be pulling a draw weight of 40lb plus. (40# is illegal here.)

It is not possible to sustain this level of static weight for more than a few seconds without affecting the accuracy of the aim. (WRONG. I could hold my 75# ten minutes easily.)

Difficult enough on a static target, let alone a moving one. (Nobody shoots at a moving target with a bow unless it's walking very slowly and it's close.)

So, now let's have a look at the things that can and frequently do go wrong. (Frequently? Bullshit.)

The archer can have a poor loose, to happens to all of us occasionally, the arrow could be miss-knocked, or an un-noticed broken or faulty knock could be used the knocking point on the string could slip, I have even known archers knock an arrow below the point instead of above it by mistake. The arrow could lose a fletch or be incorrectly fletched, or be knocked upside down. (And you could educate yourself... but not likely.)

Are you aware of just how an arrow flies as it leaves the bow? (Yes.)

The knock is trying to overtake the pile throughout the length of its flight making it inherently unstable. Even a slight side wind affects the flight, much more so than a bullet. (Not from a 75# bow at a distance of 15m.)

No, archery is not the way to shoot animals. If you must do it, use a high power rifle." (Educate yourself, TWIT.)

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:55 AM

Minstrel's accuracy figures are tighter than yours, Silas. Think your next post through before you click submit.

As for me,

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM

Oh Dear. I should have known better...

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:01 PM

"Minstrel's accuracy figures are tighter than yours, Silas. Think your next post through before you click submit.

As for me,

gnightgnu "

How do you work that out when he does not stipulate distance?

You can hold a 75lb bow on your fingers for ten minutes? Is that when you are shooting at flying pigs?

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM

I wasn't gonna but you make it soooo easy, Silas.

I assume Minstrel was talking about your distance or mine. It's obvious to me.

I don't use my fingers... think before you post.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:32 PM

I have many qualities, but, sadly, mind reading is not one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Any Archers out there?
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM

You were tryin pretty hard at mind readin above. Especially when you insinuated I, and others above, are morons. Keep posting bullshit as it further demonstrates the reverse.