BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water

Subject: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:26 PM

Haven't seen this programe on BBC about bottled water yet, but the comment in the review in RT made me pull a wry face: "the absurdity of a dozen branded varieties of something that comes out of the tap."

Well firstly, of course water *also* comes out of a tap, but as a seasoned spring drinker I can reveal that that's not actually where it really comes from!

I must confess I'm a bottled water drinker, mainly because I actually like to drink water, and because I like water I don't like that stale chemicalised reclaimed liquid that passes for 'water' that you get from the tap.

Some people will think I'm nuts or that I've been brainwashed by the magic powers of advertising, but I suspect that those people who scoff, don't actually *like* drinking plain water very often and instead opt for some of the zillions of other beverages sold us by those same magic brainwashing adverts.

As for the waste issue, yes I agree - plastic bottles are a terrible waste. I'd far rather have bottled water in *reusable glass bottles* available on something like a milk round.

Of course what I really aught to do is bottle the stuff at source for myself. Perhaps I will at that...

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:29 PM

PS - as other posters may have gathered, I'm feeling perverse tonight, so I thought I'd provoke some light quibbling ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:40 PM

Tap water is far better for you because of the "chemicalization". Medically proven... otherwise, engineers would not put chemicals in.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

Bottled water tastes better if you shake it up before you drink it. That aerates it and cuts down the staleness. It doesn't eliminate the sweetness that comes from the plastic bottle, though.

After the shaking, I estimate it tastes about 30% as good as my tap water. (We have nice water.)

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:44 PM

And I am already paying for tap water ! Damned if I am going to pay for a plastic bottle as well

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

"Tap water is far better for you because of the "chemicalization". Medically proven... otherwise, engineers would not put chemicals in."

Maybe, maybe not: Guardian: Fluoride water 'causes cancer'

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

Some researchers have found various contaminants in bottled water, even fecal matter. Also, once opened, the bottle can incubate germs quite quickly. Tap water (at least where I live) is very safe. If you buy a filter jug (eg Brita) for your tap water and put it in the fridge, it tastes just as nice as bottled. I suspect there are vast profits made on these bottled ones. Also, why ever do young people today have to walk round carrying water at all times? You'd think they were crossing the Sahara.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 02:56 PM

"Although osteosarcoma is rare, accounting for only about 3 per cent of childhood cancers,..."

3% of what %?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Micca
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM

Without further comment from me Look Here

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM

Was there not a thread on this a year or so ago?
I bring this up, because I recall some useful information posted?


Gnu.
When I stay in a Hotel in Moncton, and fill the bath tub with water, it is clearly yellow. What's the deal with that?

Do I recall the water system was closed for a summer (a few years back) , because of dead animals in it?

Anyway, a friend of mine in Moncton goes to a local free spring water source, to fill up in free fresh local spring water. I went with him once and there was a line up for the stuff, coming out of a pipe by a persons house but, it was free for anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:08 PM

I only buy mineral water or spring water. But yes, one might assume that Coke would sell crap just like they already do ;-)

In reply to Gnu, 10'400 children were diagnosed with cancer in the US in 2007, so 3% of that figure would be 312 children diagnosed with osteosarcoma annually in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:17 PM

"a friend of mine in Moncton goes to a local free spring water source, to fill up in free fresh local spring water. I went with him once and there was a line up for the stuff, coming out of a pipe by a persons house but, it was free for anyone."

I too used to collect from a lovely source on old Church ground near me, but water is heavy and it had to be lugged along a rough track back to the road. I aught to check out some other local sources though as underground springs are to be found all over the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 03:47 PM

Much garbage written about this.
Our tap water in Calgary is high in calcium-magnesium, often prescribed (doctors here recommend tablets to nearly everybody as a supplement). The added fluoride cuts dental bills.

I remember our tap water in Santa Fe, which had fluoride just slightly above recommended levels. I am in my 80s, no cavities. In parts of west Texas, the fluoride content was high enough to give drinkers brown teeth, but that seemed to be the only problem. Again, few ot no cavities.

Bottled waters only necessary in the desert or where there are contamination or toxic mineral problems (springs, rivers, etc.).

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM

Just wondering what percentage of daily fluids ingested is comprised of unadorned 'straight from the tap' tap water, for those who prefer to drink tap water to spring water here? I know that *some* people have pleasant water on tap if the water is soft and sweet in their region. But I don't think that is the norm for must of us rinsed sewerage water drinkers ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

Oh, that's a point! Do you guys in the US get recycled sewage water on tap? We do here in the UK. All the shit is rinsed out then they stick chemicals in it to make it nice again. Yum!

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

I filter my water for drinking and tea/coffee making thru the refrigerator....dispenser in door. I used to filter right at the kitchen tap, but now see no need to filter dishwashing water. My regular tap water is not bad, but cool, filtered water is just a bit better...(and the ice is made that way also). If I am going out, I have permanent bottles of various types I can cool and/or carry. I 'almost' never have occasion to drink bottled water, and will avoid it whenever possible....even though plastic is recycled here.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:25 PM

"Do you guys in the US get recycled sewage water on tap? We do here in the UK. All the shit is rinsed out then they stick chemicals in it to make it nice again."

Let's hope not.

We have always had enough country to supply water for everyone, but the mass illegal migration from Mexico is stetching the Colorado and Rio Grande to the point that we must choose between growing crops (which feed the people) and supplying the people with drinking water. The Southwest US is mostly desert.

As to bottled water, the plastic bottles often have the mould-release compound stuck to the plastic providing more "pollution" than tap water has. Save your money unless you live an area that has proven to have poor quality water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:49 PM

I love water. I dream about it. When I was a kid I wanted to be a super hero who protected all water in the world.

In Essex, UK I drink nearly 2 litres a day, tap water through brita filter at home and from filtered cooler at work. Some days it tastes ok, some days it tastes vile.

Some days when you turn on the tap you can smell chlorine. That's when I break out the ice, which I chew. One of my indulgences here in UK is to buy bagged ice every week.

The best water I ever tasted was from artesian well at my aunt's house beside the Chickahominy River. Used to stock up on it. Take it home in gallon milk bottles and freeze it, then drink as it thawed.

Only buy bottled water, when out and about and I am thirsty. In the US, I would buy giant cup of ice from fast food restaurants until they started to refusing to sell. I have been known to go in begging for ice claiming on behalf of someone who smashed finger in car door.

Did I say I love ice?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:05 PM

pdq, the largest demand on the Colorado River basin is agriculture. The second largest is maintaining lawns and other inappropriate uses in desert environs. If you read the reports, most of the US is headed for a water crisis.

1: We are overdrawing our aquifers. The rate of use exceeds the recharge rate by a massive amount.
2: When we overdraw the aquifer, we lower the back pressure that slows septic infiltration into the aquifer.
3: If the aquifer is near an ocean, the same lowered back pressure allows faster salt infiltration into the aquifer.

The average per capita daily consunption of water is 100 gallons. This includes the water needed to grow food and natural fibers for clothing. It also includes water used in manufacturing the goods we use daily, including the chips and other parts of your computer.

The two things you can do which will reduce your daily consumption the most are: shower less and flush the toilet less often.

If you live in areas where they are attempting to get natural gas by fracking the strata, know that the process is releasing toxins into the water. It is also breaking down the barriers between the trapped sea water that is mixed in with crude oil and the strata where water can be found.

There is no question that there is approximately the same amount of water on earth than there was a couple of billion years ago. The problem is that the portion of it which is nominally potable is getting smaller as people use it for their own purposes, including as a convenient sewer.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:25 PM

"artesian well at my aunt's house beside the Chickahominy River. Used to stock up on it. Take it home in gallon milk bottles and freeze it, then drink as it thawed."

Hey, there's a thought! Never considered freezing water from a spring before. I'll keep that idea in mind if we get a bigger freezer.

In other news here's some new-age contemporary folklore about the chymical Glastonbury springs: red and white springs

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:25 PM

Each bottle which contains so-called 'pure' water takes 450 years to disintegrate...

Something to remember, next time you reach for the 'better option'

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:41 PM

The industry in which I am directly involved and in which I have a patent pending is Atmospheric Water Generation [AWG]. I have a vested interest in producing clean water from humidity. AWG is capable of producing USP water as a normal thing. The contaminants which are normally present in ground water or rain water are either non existent or have been removed before it reaches the consumer. Cost of producing the water is approximately 1 kilowatt of energy per gallon. In many conditions of higher temperature or higher humidity, we do significantly better than that.

Anyone wanting a listing of the output curves or of one of our water analyses can PM me. AWG has implications for climate change and has the capability of prividing potable water to everyone on Earth who lives in areas where there is more than 50% humidity and temperatures greater than 10 degrees celsius.

I get upset when I see people like President Clinton being filmed when they hand out bottles of water at emergency sites, such as Haiti. The cost of this delivery is approximately 8 gallons of fuel for every gallon of water delivered.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Becca72
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:43 PM

I buy only Poland Springs water for my own consumption because I don't like the idea of the added chemicals in tap water. Here in Maine water bottles are "returnable" and Poland Springs recycles.

I also buy gallon jugs of spring water (store brand) to give to my cats as I have found that when filling their bowls with tap water after a day there is a rim of pink mold in the bowls. No way I'm letting my little ones drink that! The mold does not appear with the spring water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:45 PM

Many/most urban US locations have secondary water treatment, and a few have tertiary treatment of various kinds. In areas where water is scarce, this level of treatment is becoming standard, just to have enough.

There are many ways for 'most' people to have both safe AND palatable water without resorting to plastic bottles.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: open mike
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:46 PM

I sell water filters..they are made from a solid block of carbon. I had a water source directly from a stream...surface water...for many years. By using my filter i had a secure source of water. The filter takes out heavy metals, particulates, and even giardia cysts and e.coli. the water comesout of a spigot...a small spout..mounted near the main faucet (the filter cannister is under the counter top.) Some of my customers get the filter just to remove the chlorine from the tap water. Some towns and cities add extra chlorine in the winter when there is run-off into the reservoirs from rain and snow. If anyone is interested in one of these filters, you can reach me at [e-mail].

There is also a local business which sells "clean canteen" a stainless steel water bottle which eliminates the need for plastic bottles.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:55 PM

pdq, it is the damnyankees, Anglo Tejanos and clodhoppers from more eastern regions that are swarming into the southwest, using the waters for irrigation on farms, lawns, golf courses at resorts; not the immigrants, illegal or legal, coming across the border.
As ebarnacle says, they draw down the aquifers and reduce the rivers to trickles insufficient to maintain fish populations.

The illegals coming across the border, on the other hand, mostly perform useful, if ill-paid, tasks that no Anglo would dirty his hands with.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM

This was a delightful find when we walked a local route.
A historic Roman spring I believe - pity about all the ugly iron bars around it now though:
Historic Roadside Spring

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:13 PM

The problem that cannot be reduced by inline filters of municipal ground water is that the water that osmoses into the source water [even in New York City] from septic systems and treated water contains microamounts of various drugs and hormones.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM

I dunno, if you were offered the straight choice of rain and dew filtered by purifying mountain, to human faeces, urine and tampons filtered with purifying chemicals, which would you choose? For me, well I made my choice. Though I do agree with Lizzie about the problem with bottles. We recycle, but still plastics are not really a desirable option for any forward thinking person. Simply posting this thread has however reminded me that there are local natural sources I should avail myself of, even if it takes an extra half an hour a week or whatever, it's a better option than buying plastic.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 07:08 PM

cs, you are surely right...if you can be sure that there are no contaminants in the water. Even if you get the water as it bubbles up from the ground, you do not know what it got exposed to before you got it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 07:25 PM

Ed T... "Gnu. When I stay in a Hotel in Moncton, and fill the bath tub with water, it is clearly yellow. What's the deal with that? Do I recall the water system was closed for a summer (a few years back) , because of dead animals in it?"

Yellow... yeah, our pipes are old and there is a filtration problem which does affect some areas of the city, but that is being addressed and is far more limited now. As for the dead animlals... yeah... someome tied four hogs to alders in shallow water in the main resevoir one summer. (We had a "boil order" and not a shut down.) I wonder WHO would have done THAT eh? Hard to imagine but it DID happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 07:31 PM

As usual, this thread has branched out into too many subjects to respond to all of them.

EBarnacle...I agree that setting off bombs underground with the intent to fracture the rock and release oil and gas is a bad idea. Perhaps an atrocity if done within 100 miles of a city, dam or major underground aquifer. Ban the practice now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:02 PM

"Yellow... yeah"
Just to be clear, it was yellow before I got in:)

"someome tied four hogs to alders in shallow water in the main resevoir one summer"

Sounds like a cult, or a scene from the movie Deliverance?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:04 PM

100 miles is not far enough. Many of these aquifers communicate across the continent.

We agree--ban fracking now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:11 PM

ED... a cult... or a bottled water company.

EB... we are pesentltly in a scrap over natgas exploration here... in the same watershed as Ed and I have been talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:50 PM

No aquifers communicate across the continent, but some cover at least half the distance. No matter, the aquifers, what is left of them, must be protected.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:20 AM

Compared to some third world countries our water isn't too bad at all. A little while ago I did go through a phase of buying mineral water until I learned the cost of transporting this stuff. In the summer I boil tap water cool it and pour it into bottles to chill in the fridge which also saves me having to freeze ice-cubes ready to drink or to add to cordials. But obviously if I was on holiday abroad yes I would buy mineral water to be on the safe side. If I do have mineral water it is just for rehydration if travelling or something like that where I can't get to a tap. If I am eating out and I don't particularly want alchohol I will have a sparkling mineral water because I do like the earthy taste of it strangely enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Essex water in Kent?
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 04:07 AM

My tap water acquires a mouldy taint from sitting around in the kitchen tap system - this will be altered as soon as I have some money released by house sale. I am assuming that it comes from the chalk aquifer as it is full of carbonate - I like carbonate rich water, having grown up on it.

I don't know if any of our Kent or Essex members know about the source on the NK marshes by the bird sanctuary near the Isle of Harty end of Sheppey - can't be clearer at the moment. I was down there with a friend who was off photographing frogs when I spotted someone with a car filling up bottles from a pipe which was gushing into a concrete tank. I asked if it was drinking water, and was told, in a French accent, that it was, because it came from Essex. (For our US members, this implies it had been piped under the Thames Estuary for a few miles.) I filled a few bottles, and it was a pleasant water, though I doubt the Essex origin. Anyone know anything about this? (I wonder if she meant it was from an aquifer running under the estuary and was an artesian well, which would make geological sense, though not necessarily economic sense.) If I had real information about this, it would be worth the occasional trip to stock up.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:01 AM

This NHS piece advises tap water for babies.
If that fails then you should use the water left in the loft tank and only use bottled water as a last resort.
They do not say, but the reason is the nasty chemicals that leach out of the plastic and contaminate the water.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1945.aspx?CategoryID=62&SubCategoryID=63

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:17 AM

Yes, plastics used to contain food and drink are an issue. Just think of the vast quantity of food packaged in plastic today compared to years ago when people shopped for fresh food locally. They say that chemicals leaching from plastics into food, are contributing to male infertility I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:24 AM

I remember when bottled water first started appearing in supermarkets (seems like only yesterday!). I was amazed - "no-one will buy that", I thought. But they did!

I put this down to the relentless bullshit that pours from the 'pens' of marketing people who have convinced consumers of bottled water that tap-water is bad for them. Those consumers should be aware that people in marketing departments usually know NOTHING about anything - they are usually just giant egos on legs who spend their time dreaming up lies to persuade people to buy their products.

Watch my lips: TAP WATER IS PERFECTLY SAFE AND NOT BAD FOR YOU!!!!!

And it also tastes fine to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: andrew e
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:02 AM

Bottled, or tank water tastes heaps better than tap water, and is not full of junk. Fluoride etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:38 AM

Bottled water is more harmful than tap water.
That is why you should not give it to babies.
Chemicals in the plastic have been linked to low sperm count and male genital problems that have dramatically worsened in the last 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

Babies and young children should not be allowed to drink mineral water, and baby formula feed should not be made up with natural mineral water. Some have high salt or high sulphur content and, in particular, a high uranium content. Uranium is a heavy metal that is toxic to the kidneys and liver. The radioactivity of natural mineral waters are generally too low to be problematic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A13745991

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:38 AM

Bottled water is more harmful than tap water.
That is why you should not give it to babies.
Chemicals in the plastic have been linked to low sperm count and male genital problems that have dramatically worsened in the last 20 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

Babies and young children should not be allowed to drink mineral water, and baby formula feed should not be made up with natural mineral water. Some have high salt or high sulphur content and, in particular, a high uranium content. Uranium is a heavy metal that is toxic to the kidneys and liver. The radioactivity of natural mineral waters are generally too low to be problematic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A13745991

The solution then, Keith of Hertford, is to not give babies and young children ANY water? Really - what are you saying?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 11:21 AM

Bottled water is no better or worse, in most cases than tap water. According to the FDA, in at least 40% of all cases, it is tap water. Of course, the plasticizer used in most of the plastic bottles is a carcinogen but we don't worry about that. Convenience is everything.

Every one of the major bottled water producers uses more than one bottling plant. Poland Springs is no longer only from Poland, Maine. Coca Cola set up a bottling plant in a desert [in Arizona, I believe] and was going to use a very slow recharging aquifer as its source. Fortunately, public protest caused them to abandon the plant.
That one didn't make the late night news in your area, did it?

Q, you are correct. The continental divide would split the communication, even if nothing else did. The point, however, is valid: If you frack the Marcellus shale, don't be surprised if contaminants show up a very long way from the injury.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water V's Bottled Water
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 12:28 PM

A few years ago, during some kind of UK water panic, I overhead the following conversation in the supermarket.
First woman:-(addressing friend with a trolley full of bottled water)
"What have you bought all that for?"
Second woman:- "Well you never know, and you can't be without water"
First woman:- "But we live in Malvern!"
Malvern is a Spa town with literally dozens of freely available fresh springs of proverbially pure water. It was, until very recently, bottled and sold worldwide as Malvern Water, by Coca Cola. The springs have never been known to run dry.
I don't think reason has anything to do with the topic!
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:33 PM

Ebbie, both my posts were about the contaminants in bottled water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:48 PM

I have to own up to buying water at times - it's convenient if I get thirsty when I'm out. And when I was on the cruise, they gave out bottles for shore trips - I wouldn't have wanted to drink the ship water, and there wouldn't have been any opportunity for access to water on land. In Turkey. And the Greek islands. And Croatia. And it was hot.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:59 PM

Pepsi and Coke sell bottled waiter that is municipal tap water in most countries. But, it is tap water that is put through reverse osmosis and filters. You can do that at home, but it would be costly.

Why would one single out water in plastic bottles? Consumers use many products in similar plastic bottles, and it's in plastic coatings in canned foods that are retorted for long periods at very high steam heat (which allows the same compounds to release into the canned products). Additionally, we are subjected to cancer causing compounds releasws in plastics used in microwaves, and from teflon cookware and teflon in microwave pop corn bags.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:08 PM

Shimrod speaks my mind much better than me!

CS if you were offered the straight choice of rain and dew filtered by purifying mountain, to human faeces, urine and tampons filtered with purifying chemicals, which would you choose? For me, well I made my choice.

That is a very simplistic and demeaning view of both sewage and water treatment! If you really think it's that bad here, compare our situation with some of the stories on here: WaterAid

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:50 PM

Cost of producing the water is approximately 1 kilowatt of energy per gallon

As with a lot of "ad-speak," misuse of terminology makes the commercial message questionable. A kilowatt is a unit of power, and does not say how much energy is required. If you have to dump in a kilowatt for an hour, then the energy used is one kilowatt hour. If you have to pump in a kilowatt for ten hours, then the energy used is somewhat larger, although I probably shouldn't get into big numbers with people who misuse terminology shallowly.

From the same post:

... when they hand out bottles of water at emergency sites, such as Haiti. The cost of this delivery is approximately 8 gallons of fuel for every gallon of water delivered.

The vast majority of "emergency water" is shipped as ice, for the simple reason that there are few tanker trailers available, and the majority are commonly used for chemicals that can't be easily cleaned to safely carry potables. There are lots of refrigerated trailers (and a fair number of ships), used daily for transporting food. Almost any "reefer" can carry potable ice as readily as anything else.

Even a small reefer trailer can carry 30,000 pounds of ice, equivalent to 3,500 gallons of water. The more common sizes carry 48,000 or 60,000 pounds per load. Eight times 3,500 (using the smallest likely size) is 28,540 gallons (of fuel?). It's about 3,000 miles from one end of the US to the other, so the truck uses 10 gallons of fuel per mile? That fuel consumption rate is about right for an M60 tank off the roads in rough terrain, although it would carry a lot less water. In some emergencies an armored delivery vehicle might be a good idea at the destination; but I haven't heard of it being done that way across the whole trip distance, in the US or anywhere else. (On failry good roads, even an M60 uses only about 2.5 gallons per mile.)

This is not meant to single out the particular post - or poster - quoted. It just offered an "easy" calculation requiring minimal "look ups." Several comments thus far in this thread could benefit if the posters would apply a "reasonableness test" or two to the opinions offered.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 04:26 PM

Clean city tap water and foods with modern preservatives have much to answer for. People are living much longer and the world is overrun with old people as the result of these misguided 'improvements'.

For ecological reasons we must return to the standards of 1600 or earlier. Governments would be spared the expense of providing for these old gits with pensions and welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 04:35 PM

Tapped water around NYC is no longer drinkable imho, this changed sometime in the 90's I think; it used to be GREAT , as fresh and pure as a mountain stream; now it just has an 'off' taste. And is sometimes...arggg.....brown.

I drink Poland Spring or Perrier now, don't trust the tap wter.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM

Penny S.,

Drinking bottled water in certain countries overseas is probably very wise because you may not be able to trust the quality of the tap-water in those places. I have been to countries like Croatia and Turkey - but can't remember whether I drank the tap-water or not.

I do know that when I went to Thailand and Indonesia, for work, I was advised (by the locals) not to drink the tap-water. They also advised me not to drink anything with ice in it (I was told that establishments which serve ice have it delivered in large blocks which are just dumped on the pavement [British for 'sidewalk'] - you may be unlucky and get the ice which has been in contact with the pavement). Incidentally, I was also advised not to eat American style fast-food in those countries (if it's not served straight away it can soon go off in that climate). The safest food was the local stuff cooked there and then in a hot wok.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:27 PM

When WC Fields was asked if he wanted some water he replied, `Water? Fish fuck in it!`

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:29 PM

It is possible to process human feces in a manner that would make it tasty, and less risky to eat than many other foods. Maybe so, but, would you really want to eat it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Penny S.
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:42 PM

The hotel I stayed in in Turkey advised that the tap water was not drinking water, and did not provide tea and coffee making equipment (in a several starred place). It did have a very small amount of water in the fridge, which, although it was listed on the minibar price list, I was not charged for after drinking.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:49 PM

I got turned off bottled water when I witnessed staff at an institution in which I worked walking around with bottles of it in their hands. No one was ever more than 50` from a tap, and it was in a town of about 10,000 with an excellent water source. All I could think was, `My. How precious we are.` Fashion statements on the go.

As per Penny`s remarks, some countries have water that would gag a maggot. One would be wise to follow her advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:05 PM

My office used to inspect a bottling plant (Poland Spring) back in the 80s. They filled the bottles from a tap. It was a fancy, professional set-up, but it was the same water folks in that town got from turning on their faucet.

I have a well. The well water doesn't taste great, has a shitload of iron and manganese in it, but I only buy bottled water now when the power goes out.

I laughed when, in the 70s, I first heard about people selling water. I thought it was a joke. Other than water from special places, I still think the bottled stuff is a major scam.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: s&r
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:16 PM

Why is it now normal for performers to drink water onstage at every interval possible, and why do contestants in University Challenge take a drink of water immediately after a correct answer?

Not so with Mastermind

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:17 PM

I heard about an aquifer in Fiji being drained for bottled water. Can't remember details.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 09:28 PM

JiK, If your premise were correct, I would agree with you. If you look at the publicity shots of the Clinton Foundation, he was handing out bottled water, in litre sizes. The water was transported by air to get to Haiti, not by truck. Had it been transported by ship, the cost would have been a lot lower. In fact, it was transported by ship to American Samoa after the tsunami there.

The kilowatt per gallon figure is the industry standard for water production. The reason it is phrased that way is so that people who are not on line for their electricity can estimate its cost for their system. Another example we use is that a kid on a treadmill can produce the energy for an AWG.

Q, that's Fiji water and the scandal is that the water was the same water that the people had access to but are now outbid by the bottles for.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:16 AM

I knew it was daft when Fiji water started turning up in UK supermarkets, but I didn't realise it was that bad. There is at least one place here, in Scotland, where farmers have been denied access to moorland previously used for grazing, because of water extraction below. I believe the land owner was not local, but can't remember the details.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:25 AM

A couple of years ago I went to Turkey for the first time and had all the warnings to buy bottled water and religiously stated no ice when I was out and about but in the hotel as time went on I was hot and somehow ice was in my drink and I just bit the bullet and hoped for the best. I can report that nothing went wrong but I still would not encourage others to do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:17 AM

Each bottle which contains so-called 'pure' water takes 450 years to disintegrate...Something to remember, next time you reach for the 'better option'

Statements like this have been used in most areas to shoot down the use of bottled water. It would be the same for all plastic bottles, not just water bottles (as oponents fail to mention). An answer is to push authorities for a good recycling program for all items which can be recycled in youre local. Where I live, there is a deposit system to recycle all drink containers...which is estimated to be greater than 80 percent effective. The recycled bottles are used to make products, like carpeting and clothing. If you have the large cooler bottles, almost all of them are used again and eventually recycled, much like propane cylendars.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:30 AM

"It would be the same for all plastic bottles, not just water bottles (as oponents fail to mention). An answer is to push authorities for a good recycling program for all items which can be recycled in youre local."

Not just water either, in fact I'd guesstimate that 50% of all food stuffs are now packed with plastic. How many crisp packets, packets of frozen peas, frozen prawns, frozen mince, biscuit packets, sachets of sauce, bags of potatoes, chocolate bars, packets of sausages etc. etc. even lettuces in the supermarket are sold in some kind of plastic packaging? Not that I think it's a good idea of course, but bottled water is by no means alone as a baddy in terms of the waste we produce.

As said before, I'd be in favour of returnable, re-useable bottles (anyone remember when they did that with posh lager bottles?) where you get ten pence back (or off next purchase) for returning the bottle.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM

EDIT: "As said before, I'd be in favour of returnable, re-useable [GLASS] bottles"

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:41 AM

The fashion for buying bottled water when good water is on tap has massively increased the amount of plastic being manufactured and discarded.
A catastrophe for the planet with no benefit to the consumers, only profit for the industry.
I wish I had thought of it first, but I would never have believed that anyone would fall for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:08 AM

"good water is on tap"

Still curious to know what volumes of plain unflavoured tap water other people here drink?

Tam (who filters) has said she drinks 2 litres of plain unflavoured tap water a day (sometimes as ice). I probably have something like three pints of unflavoured spring water a day (on top of tea and coffee and herbal tea and juice.)

How much totally plain tap water, do the fans of tap water drink a day?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:57 AM

So tap water is sewage with the shit rinsed out, huh?

Well, spring water is rain that has has picked up sheepshitcowshithorseshitbirdshitmoleshitwormshitpotholerpissantshitrottingvegetationshitairpollution which has been rinsed out (OK if we say "filtered?"). You only have to worry if you're one of those homeopathy fans who believe that water with nothing in it has something in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:29 AM

Letting the days go by
Let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by
Water flowing underground
Into the blue again
After the money's gone
Once in a lifetime
Water flowing underground

Same as it ever was

--David Byrne & the Talking Heads.

I once heard or read an interview with David Byrne, and he talked about the genesis of the song. There was a book, I think about the planet, about geology. I bought the book, and skimmed it to find the part about water. I interpreted it to be about how water has been around since the earth formed, and although it goes from solid to liquid to gas and back again, contains contaminants that are left behind when it evaporates, it's the SAME water.

It's ALL had shit "rinsed out" at some point.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:34 AM

It's quite correct that when in the tropics it's wise only to drink bottled water. I've travelled widely in West Africa and have always used bottled water, even to brush my teeth. However like a fool, having arrived late at night after a long flight, I used THE TAP to brush my teeth (only the once!) and immediately contracted giardiasis (intestinal parasite). This was in Accra. My doctor also goes to West Africa every year, and she told me it's a classic, one teeth-brushing via the tap, and you get almost anything from the water, even cholera or typhoid. But, are the bottles merely filled from the taps over there and resealed?? Yew!

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:53 AM

I guess I'm just prejudiced against water that's been specifically utilised as a conveyancing system for intense concentrations of human shit. You drink it up if it suits you though ;-)
I must add, I do sometimes drink tap water and I'm not a strict purist, I just much prefer spring water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:43 AM

You had better stop drinking altogether then, mate. Get this. I go for a swim in the sea and while I'm in there I have a clandestine, average-sized piss. Give it a year or two then scoop up a tumbler of water from the sea, anywhere in the world. There will be around one hundred molecules of my ex-piss in that tumbler. And there's six billion of us (and don't kid yourself that it doesn't all get nice and mixed up in the water cycle). You've had it, mate. It's everywhere. There's no escape, I tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM

"...water has been around since the earth formed, and although it goes from solid to liquid to gas and back again, contains contaminants that are left behind when it evaporates, it's the SAME water."

No, it is not the same water all the time.

Water is continually being produced by the combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Those atoms have never been combined before so the water molecule produced is new and unique.

Water is made in many places. Start your car and out the exhaut pipe comes CO₂ and water. Just seconds earlier it was gasoline.

We are actually quite spoiled in the Developed Contries. Third World people seldom have safe water, much less quality water, to drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,EBarnacle on a friend's machine
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:15 PM

Until recently, pdq, the water was pretty much the same water, at least in volume. There was some outgassing to space and some created water. At present, the water that is produced by our "clean" emissions exceeds the rate of outgassing.

Atmospheric water is considered the #3 climate change gas, behind CO2 and methane.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:39 PM

Fields gave this rationale for not drinking water:
"Fish f*ck in it"

"During one of my treks through Afghanistan, we lost our corkscrew. We were compelled to live on food and water for several days".


"Say anything that you like about me except that I drink water".


"Somebody's been putting pineapple juice in my pineapple juice!"



all WC Fields

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:39 PM

"Atmospheric water is considered the #3 climate change gas, behind CO2 and methane."

No, water vapor is the #1 "greenhouse gas" by far. CO₂ a distant second and methane, with 1.7 parts per billion ain't even on the radar screen. But then, we have hundreds of politically-motivated web sites that say otherwise, so it ain't really worth the trouble to argue.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:05 PM

Yes but water vapour is relatively constant. In effect, we can more or less rule it out, though in a future warmer world there may well be higher levels of it in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide levels are not constant - they have been rising steadily since the start of the industrial revolution. Your figure for methane is wildly out. In the last 250 years methane levels have increased from 700 parts per billion to 1850 parts per billion, an increase of about two and a half times. Molecule-for-molecule, methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, which is potent enough. The threat to the planet is caused by these two gases increasing rapidly in the atmosphere. It behoves opponents of global warming theory to at least get their facts right.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:25 PM

The concentration of CO₂ in the atmosphere is 365 parts per million. Methane gas is 1.7 parts per million, or 1700 parts per billion.

Obviously I made a typing error. I have put those numbers out on Mudcat several times before.

Both gases are completely irrelevant when it comes to Global Warming, which is a made-up concept anyway. The 1^o F increase in average temperature from 1848-1998 is very small. Not wotrth all the fuss, much less a special name.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 04:22 PM

The temperature rise was about 1.3F in the 20th century alone and the rate of warming in the second half was double that of the first half. Comment is free but facts are sacred. The rate of warming in the last few decades is unprecedented.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 04:48 PM

"Tap Water vs. Bottled Water vs. holy water"

Just thought I would give an opening for a theist-atheist
drift,if you get my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:46 PM

From Answers.com:-

"97% of the water on Earth is in the ocean, or saltwater. 3% is freshwater. (Of the 3% that is fresh, about 70% is locked up as ice in ice caps and glaciers.)"

Haven't checked the figures personally, but that seems roughly in line with what I remember from a recent TV program. By my reckoning, that leaves about 1% to maintain life on earth, in the form of humidity, clouds, rain, snow, rivers, lakes and groundwater, ourselves and the rest of the animal and plant world (fish included - fish and other sea-life don't drink salt water). And as for "creating" new water from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen - where do you think the petrochemicals come from in the first place? It's just another (very slow) part of the cycle.

Provision of potable water will be this century's major physical and political problem (war, pestilence, famine - sideshows). Bottled water cannot solve it - buying the stuff only diverts resources - and as somebody above pointed out, it isn't always what it claims to be:-

Things get worse with Coke (Guardian, 20 March 2004)

Come to think of it, haven't seen Dasani in the shops since.

I should say I do occasionally buy bottled water - I don't drink fizzy pop and sometimes it's the only way to stay hydrated on a long day out - but I could never make a habit of it.

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:53 PM

How do they make Holy Water? Boil the hell out of it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM

How do they make holy water? Well, I'll evade that question - but let me tell you that holy water gets slimy if you don't change it often. Every time the priest does baptisms, I water the flowers with the old holy water, and use the newly-blessed baptismal water.

We have a well on the west side of the house, and a septic tank and leach field on the east side, separated by a hundred yards of distance and 50 feet of elevation. This was all built in the 1940s, and I wonder if it's really safe. I keep meaning to have our drinking water tested, but haven't gotten around to it. Our irrigation water comes from a 19th century ditch, down the hill from the leach field. No way I'd drink that ditch water.

I don't believe in bottled water. Our well water tastes a whole lot better.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:33 PM

Good stuff, Ross. As I said, facts are sacred. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

In two thousand and ought eight, a thread called "Bottled Water versus Tap Water" covered the same ground as this one. We have short memories.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:59 PM

Maybe there was aluminium in the water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:02 PM

Considering what some bottled waters cost, there should be gold in 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:23 PM

You could always filter your own (your own what, Ross?) You know -everything.

YouTube - reedbed water purifier

or

Advantages of Reedbed Filtration

The plastic box system presumably allows recovery/storage of the treated water. There are vertical-flow designs which take up less space. The land-based system looks to be adaptable in scale from domestic all the way up to large industrial requirements, and allows recycled water to be returned to stream/river catchments.

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 03:34 AM

pdq,
"Water is continually being produced by the combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Those atoms have never been combined before so the water molecule produced is new and unique."

That only happens when hydrogen, gas or in a compound, burns.
That does not have a signicant effect on the planet's water supply.
You remember the water cycle from school?
The same molecules of water just go round and round.
Your bottle contains molecules that have been drunk many times before.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 03:36 AM

AND, the hydrogen in fossil fuels was taken from prehistoric water, drunk or absorbed by organisms.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 07:14 AM

>Come to think of it, haven't seen Dasani in the shops since.<
Ross back when they were promoting the water they came to where I worked. I tried it, accepted the free pen and mouse mat but it didn't taste any different than my refrigerated boiled tap water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: maeve
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 07:43 AM

As noted by Q a few posts ago: Earlier "Bottled/Tap Water thread

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

Keith A of Hertford,

I don't want to argue with anyone or say that they are wrong, but look at this formula:

                                                                   6 CO2 + 6 H2O = C6H12O6 + 6 O2

That is a much streamlined version of photosynthesis, one of the most important chemical reactions on Earth. It goes on all day somewhere on the planet and is the secret of life for all green plants. NOTE: the water on the left side of the equasion actually goes bye bye. It does not exist any more, the Hydrogen atoms now being part of a sugar molecule.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:58 AM

C6H12O6 + 6O2 = 6 CO2 + 6H2O

And that's aerobic respiration, what the plants and the animals do when they want some energy (which is all the time). New water molecules made, but it's from the same ol' hydrogen and oxygen atoms going round and round...

Worth remembering that living things don't use elemental hydrogen (of which there is very little anyway), and that all the oxygen in the atmosphere was put there by green plants.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:14 AM

You are right of course pdq.
Thanks for the correction.
Most water does go round the cycle though.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 03:32 PM

Here's a link [copy and paste] to the Fiji Water situation:

http://www.alternet.org/story/148960/fiji_water_embroiled_in_junta_meltdown

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

Oh, what they hay: 100

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:08 PM

Think I'm mixed up on this one, We use a filter jug here as mum in particular finds the tap water foul and will tell you straight off if say her cup of tea has been filtered..

I'd certainly find the Welsh water we had when living in Bryn Pydew I think from Llyn Dulyn different and nicer.

But then when I moved to a flat in Llandudno, I went bottled for a while as after some works outside, the tap water gave me problems...


Overall I suppose I would suspect bottled water can be a con but I'm unsure about some of our water treatment for the tap..

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 05:50 PM

For an excellent song by a terrific person: google Evalyn Parry. She beautifully lampoons bottled water.

I ONLY drink distilled water. No matter how good it tastes, we never know just what is in that tap water.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:29 PM

That's just miserable, Dorothy. I don't know where you live, but if it's in the EU, the UK or the US your tap water is just fine. My cats have always sought out the filthiest pondwater or puddles to drink from and they routinely live to 19 or 20 years old. With rare exceptions and accidents, your tap water is free of heavy metals, bacteria and viruses. And it makes a much better cup of tea than distilled. Live a little and risk a very little.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 02:16 PM

Much energy amongst ENGos and organizations providing municipal tap water has been directed towards demonizing bottled water.I feel making peple of sustainable and environmentally friendly alternatives is good.

However, little attention is being focused on the use of styrofoam by the food and bevredge industry. Coffee cups, product packaging, the meat industry all use huge amounts of styrofoam which is not recycled,makes up 30 percent of garbage, takes hundreds of years to break down and adds toxins to the environment.

There is a good record for recycling plastic drink containers (including water bottles), and opportunities to make it better..

It makes me wonder why styrofoam is being ignored?

styrofoam

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 02:37 PM

Aye Steve, our cats will drink stale water from a vase in preference to fresh water...

---
As ofr drinking just distilled, I'd say no thanks. I remain unsure if sime of our water treatment eg Cl levels but there is more to (non distilled) water than just H20. It probably (although I'm above my head here) does also contain valuable trace elements,

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

Anyone old enough to remember those canvas bags of water one hung on the automobile? Cooled by evaporation. Tasted great when there was nothing else to drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:10 PM

For those interested enough, there is an article on coal and CO2 in the current issue of The Atlantic, pages 64 - 78, by James Fallows. If this thread gets revived at some future date, that's the December, 2010 issue, vol. 306, no. 5. The article discusses the causes and rate of change and its effects. There is also an article on Freeman Dyson, one of the major climate change deniers.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: pdq
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:44 PM

Barnacle Bill...

Your Atmospheric Water Generation system sounds fine for people who have: money, live in a warm and humid climate, and want a gass or two of fresh water.

You also need to supply energy through electricity, so a complete solar-powered system, installed by professionals, is needed.

I don't have that kind of money and live in an area that has 5-10% humidity on many Summer days. It is now 30^o F, going up to 38^o F this afternoon. The ATW system would be marginal at the best of times and useless at others.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 02:11 PM

We recommend that the device not be used below about 40 F and 30% humidity. If you have those conditions 8 months out of the year, it certainly pays. If you are in a marginal zone or have humidity but little rain, any water you can get is a good thing.

These devices have the potential to drive back deserts by creating microclimates and grasslands, then slowly expanding in from the margins of the deserts. Remember that the entire Southern shore of the Mediterranean was once the bread basket of the Roman empire.

No one answer works for every place all of the time. I would not recommend these devices for most of Nevada or Arizona. If, however, there is no significant rainfall and I were a subsistence farmer, I'd rather extract some moisture than have none.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:34 PM

EPA grant to help identify sources of PCBs, a potent carcinogen, in San Francisco Bay. Cities around the bay - particularly San Carlos, San Jose, Oakland and Richmond - still contain many hot spots for PCBs, a potent carcinogen that has contaminated the bay and spurred a health advisory for fish caught there. San Mateo County Times, California.
http://bit.ly/fpbUfY

Is your water tested for PCBs, for prescription drugs, for any of the numerous chemicals that are leaching into the ground water, streams and lakes that provide most people with "tap water".   I have lived in municipalities where residents who pay for city water have received letters telling them it is not safe for drinking - in Pennsylvania. AFter filtering water with a Britta filter and decanting it into a clean glass jar, I found yellow scum forming on the inside of the jar.

My friend who has a well in the country put in a state of the art purification system. The water gave her arrythmia both before and after the system. She also drinks distilled water and avoids the arrythmia. Cooks with it and gives it to the dog, too.

I drink distilled water. And make sure I get those trace elements that we actually need in food but not the chemicals that cause cancer and other nasties.

For further info on environmental pollution - in water, air and soil - see Above the Fold, a newsletter I receive daily with links to many interesting environmental health issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Tap Water vs. Bottled Water
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 08:39 PM

AlterNet just posted this story about Fiji Water. Apparently they are shutting down. The only question is whether it is permanent.

http://www.alternet.org/water/149013/goodbye_fiji_water_bottling_company_announces_it_is_shutting_down?page=entire