BS: Aren't Our Police Just...

Subject: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 06:55 AM

Heard on the news yesterday that in the last year sixteen women had been mudered by their violent parteners and, although the police were informed of the potential danger, no action had been taken. Later in the day I read that a man, who had trimmed a garden bush to the shape of male genitalia eight years earlier, was visited by a policeman who threatened to charge him with a public order offence because one person had complained. I might add that this was in the same police area where the police had failed to keep adequate records about a man who later murdered two poor little girls.
It would appear that I am such a dangerous character that it took two policemen to threaten me with an on the spot fine for putting up some posters in the village warning of a dangerous dog on the loose. The neighbours were grateful: the dog owner was not. I refused to pay any fine and told them to take me to court and I would defend the charge.
All the police seem interested in is getting their conviction numbers up by as many charges as possible, never mind if it's the wrong person. They also prefer to go for easy targets, such as dope smokers, naturists and the like rather than pursue potentially dangerous criminals; after all they might get hurt!

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 07:14 AM

The recent spate of programmes on the TV showing Police life on the streets amazes me at times. On one such programme it shown some Police on interceptor duties dealing with a gang and being sworn at and shouted out in the most horrid manner. NO charges were made and they went on the way. In another programme a man was pulled for a minor driving offence and the Policeman openly admitted on camera the only reason he gave the driver an on the spot fine for the offence is that he had called him 'love'. "No-one calls me love and gets away with it" the Officer laughed. I found it apalling.

When I lived in a rather larger northern city a few years back a young woman was attacked and savagely raped in a park in broad daylight. No-one heard her screams and she was left for dead. That very same day and time, on a road adjacent to the park, three Police officers were out with a speed camera.

The Police do not have an easy job but sometimes they do seem to appear to hit easy targets rather than go for the harder cases with less chance of a conviction. The motorist is always an easy target. I had a friend given a fixed penalty and points on his licence for turning into a one way system in a strange town by about 10 yards. There were two Police in a car in the street he turned into and they did him. Not quite the same as one evening when I was nearly hit by a police car with no lights on driving down a one way street into me the wrong way.

Far too often it is one law for one and another law for another. Just six weeks ago I saw a police van driver driving with his arm out of the window and resting on the side of his door as he negotiated two sets of lights and a traffic island. He must have been changing gear with with no hands on the wheel to have done this.

Quis custodiat ipsus custodes - who guards the guards?

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:04 AM

Sixteen women murdered by their violent partners..... the Police were aware of this no action had been taken... OK Guest Doc John... what would you have done... stayed with them for 24 hours a day to make sure it didn't happen?? After 30 years of taking care of other peoples children and dealing with their parents... I can categorically state that the majority of women who are knocked around or beaten actually insist on staying with their partners in spite of the problems... how can anyone deal with that... they are given the opportunity to move into a 'Refuge' until they can find a new home but many refuse and most who do go into a refuge move back into the marital home anyway.... Our sad society is adept at putting the blame for certain peoples behaviour on the Police/ Social Services/ Health Service/Education Department etc etc.... To my mind it is high time that the blame was put firmly and squarely where it lies.. and that is with the perpetrator OR the continuous victim who stays by choice in a dangerous situation.. Yes Guest Doc John... the Police did know about those sixteen women... but so did the women... that doesn't excuse the men who killed them of course but the women stayed in a dangerous situation by choice....... The Police could do nothing about that could they???

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:16 AM

Having read the rest of your post Guest Doc John.. I guess I am saying nothing else... you obviously think you are some kind of authority on Police preferences and conviction numbers but if fact you don't have the least clue.... I refuse to be wound up by someone so bigoted.
PS Who will you call when the kids are smoking dope outside your house?? or someone burgles your house or assaults you or one of your family. Get a life Doc!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:38 AM

Well THIS would appear on the face of it, to be a case of one law for them, and one for us.
If you or I had done this, even if we were carrying out a citizen's arrest, or even ejecting someone found unlawfully on your premises. I can't help but feel, that going by precedence, where others have been charged and convicted for what would appear on the face of it, to be justifiable force. We would find ourselves charged and convicted, of, common assault, or even GBH!
There is absolutely NO excuse for the way this man behaved.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:47 AM

John... I agree that what happened there was disgusting but bear in mind that it was his colleagues who shopped him... can't tar them all with the same brush can we???

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Lox
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:50 AM

With you on that John 100%

The guy should be in prison.

Asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Lox
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:53 AM

Georgiansilver,

I don't read bigotry in Doc Johns post,

I read frustration with his circumstances, and with his experiences.

I suspect he posted here Just after getting a ticking off from the police for putting up the poster about the dangerous dog.

No further value judgement of His post is possibe without knowing more about that story.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 09:57 AM

The motorist is always an easy target.

They are also one of the most important. Far more people are killed by people in motor vehicles than by people using other weapons like guns and knives. Getting motorists under control is far more effective in saving lives than targeting relatively harmless groups like paedophile serial killers and drug dealers.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: GUEST,Sandy (lost cookie)
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 11:13 AM

The killing of Robert Dziekanski by the RCMP has been a national disgrace in Canada. The RCMP lied to the nation to protect his killers who have not been brought to justice, and still remain on the force!   

RCMP TASER

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Gee, a cop here was videoed standing on a prisoner's neck. Over in Boise a prisoner was being beaten by another prisoner, pounded on the guard post for help, and was ignored.

Both are being appropriately investigated and the cops will be punished.

A University student was shot in the back as he walked away from a coffee shop; the shooter was in custody within 48 hours (the student's fine and back in classes, thank the Lord!). The shooter turned out to be a mental patient, released due to "budget cuts", who was off his meds.

Just this past week another chap was found dead in his apartment (flat). THAT one took 24 hours to solve and the murderer is in jail awaiting trial for Murder One.

This is the most violence we've had here in several years, but we live in the The Wild West.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 04:04 PM

As with the rest of the human race, there are good police and bad police. I wonder how many people who lump them all together realise just how much shit your average copper has to face on a day to day basis. I've a foot in both camps - I believe in getting out and protesting and one of the places that offends me is the US 'spy' station at Menwith Hill. My son, as part of his duty, has to police Menwith Hill to prevent people like me from getting in. I respect his position and he respects mine. Isn't that what life's all about?

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 05:05 PM

I am certainly not saying all Police are bad. I did say they have a bad job to do. But somtimes they forget they too are under the same laws.

Your point about motorists Jack seems fair but eben here... how many Police kill innocent people on the roads each year and the numbers keep going up. Nothing seems to happen when a Police car drives into someone except the costs are passed to the innocent and often a funeral to boot

I am not anti Police in any way. But they do need reminding the law they uphold also applies to them

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 05:11 PM

I was just wondering what sort of treatment the colleague who reported him, is getting from the other coppers in that station?

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM

There are always going to be people in any group or organisation who do bad stuff, it's a matter of statistics. But the real problem is when a misplaced sense of loyalty and group solidarity means that things get hushed up, and the guilty people are protected.

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 05:53 PM

...police van driver driving with his arm out of the window and resting on the side of his door as he negotiated two sets of lights and a traffic island...

Obviously it was an emergency and he didn't have time to fasten his seat belt. He needed a grip on the door to maintain driving position for the safety of the public ....(?)

In slightly more than 60 years of driving, I've only met one police officer "on the roads" that I might describe as "rude," and that was a "mildly so" situation. There have been perhaps two others that were a bit, perhaps unnecessarily, "abrupt."

I've met one "desk officer" who was condescending, rude, and displayed "significant social prejudice" (I was - big gasp! - a student and he obviously HATED persons of that class); but that was in Boston where police were under immense pressure(?) and it may have also been that I wasn't obviously "Irish" which was at the time a requirement for being "a cop" there.

I must observe that the current police in my area are a little less "formal" in routine contacts, but at the same time I can see that it's largely because a larger percentage of the population are extremely uncooperative with the law in general.

While there are "bad cops," the incidents in which poor performance is demostrated even by most of the lesser of them nearly always involves "bad people" with whom they must deal, and the "abused" are most frequently those who might have avoided being harmed with a slightly better attitude. Bad attitude isn't itself a crime, and any resulting abuse needs to be eliminated, and sometimes punished; but respect and cooperation by the victims of claimed abuse, for the law and for those charged with enforcement is seldom evident in reported incidents.

The relatively rare exceptions to expected police conduct do not merit "blanket condemnation" (unless you're personally among the "uncooperative," in which case "abuse" might be something you might as well expect).

John

Subject: RE: BS: Aren't Our Police Just...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 10 - 06:03 PM

It may well be true that abuse of their powers by policemen may be "relatively rare exceptions". But it also appears to be true that in almost all cases where these things happen colleagues and superiors see it as appropriate to close ranks and cover up. And that is what does the real harm in the long run.