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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: doc.tom Date: 29 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM From John Short - not published: INTRO: Lowlands, Lowlands hooray my John VERSE: The dollar a day is a oozier's pay Lowlands, Lowlands hooray my John The dollar a day is a oozier's pay The dollar and a half a day and What shall we poor matelos do My dollar and a half a day Sharp ammended the score in his notebook several times over this one, and eventually noted: "I have no doubt but that this is correct." But I'm afraid we'll have to wait until spring 2012 to hear what Jeff Warner makes of it on Short Sharp Shanties vol.3 (vol.2 will be out in September 2011) TomB |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: goatfell Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM According to some people it is a sailor's version the ballad called 'the lowlands of Holland' |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:43 AM I doubt that Harlow would call his own creation "doggerel." Harlow and others intended to preserve the shanties, not to become millionaire singer-singwriters (a job description which didn't exist at the time). I can't believe they were consciously "faking." What Harlow and others may have done frequently is to try to reconstruct something imperfectly remembered from years before. They would innocently refer to printed versions to refresh their memory. After all, if it's in a book, it must be right! (Sarcasm disclaimer.) Like Bishop Percy, some authors of shanty books may have felt it was actually *desirable* to spruce up the words, so as to make a "better" song for readers to remember. In cases like this, my guess is that what's on the page approximates the theme of what was actually sung. The language does strike me as literary, but there was no more accounting for taste in the 1870s than there is now. It would be valuable to separate the texts that we *know* were collected in the field and unaltered or scarcely altered (Carpenter, Sharp, Doerflinger, etc.) and compare them with the rest. The results might be startling. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM Thanks, TomB, for that unpublished text. I'll bet that Sharp mixed that in to the published version from English Folk-Chanteys. The version there, noted above, was collected from Henry Bailey. However, Sharp notes in general that he sometimes added verses from other individuals. In this specific case, he does say that the "matelot" verse came from Short. He doesn't say the "hoozier" verse came from short, rather he says that SHort explained to him what it meant -- perhaps implying that that verse was from Short, too. The two singers' tunes would be different, and Sharp being who he was would have put weight on the tune. He'd have said the EFC was from Bailey only if he'd used Bailey's tune. In sum: The version in Lowlands is most likely that of Bailey with the additional 1 or both manuscript lyrics of Short tacked on. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:20 PM Lighter-- Thanks for the thoughts! What you say here is what I'm thinking: What Harlow and others may have done frequently is to try to reconstruct something imperfectly remembered from years before. They would innocently refer to printed versions to refresh their memory. And with that, I wonder if we can get a sense of where/what print versions they may have used -- so as not to be misled by the narrative that stuff creates. I am, as you said, hoping to look at the field texts separately. To do that, we should know what are field texts. Well, Sharp, Carp, Doer are obvious, but there is too much valuable info in the chantyman-author texts to throw those out...unless somehow we can separate 'original' from 'derivative' within them. Perhaps not. But I do think that Harlow (we've discussed this before) contains much more that is derivative or "influenced" than is commonly supposed. So, re: your statement, In cases like this, my guess is that what's on the page approximates the theme of what was actually sung. ...while I believe that was true in some cases, I may be more skeptical. I will break down Harlow's verses, and see what you think. I doubt that Harlow would call his own creation "doggerel." True. I don't think it was his own creation. But more importantly, I don't think this statement is necessarily commenting on everything he'd just presented. Here is where I think he is (unconsciously?) echoing what he'd read. Writing about chanties took on certain formulae; paradigmatic "slots" seemed to have been needed to be filled by many author each time something was written. One of these seems to have been to talk about hoe some shanties could be "mournful", and perhaps use Lowlands as an example. People who have read this stuff, when it comes time to present the song, would tend to use similar discourse. I think "Landsman would think chanty texts were doggerel" is another cliche. My guess is that Harlow, not a great writer IMO, has rather clumsily chosen this moment to insert the cliche. The sentiment is sincere, but I don't read deeply into it in connection with his song text. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM Gibb, the universal sentiment that the shanty texts were "doggerel" by ordinary standards was universal because it was undoubtedly true, at a time when the "ordinary standards" of the day were quite literary. Words set to music were expected to have some inspiring or moving quality; comic songs, which were relegated to a second or third tier of quality, were expected to be clever. All songs were expected to be more or less polished and certainly coherent, with something like a satisfying conclusion. The nature of shanties makes it unlikely that many performances ever had all these qualities, unless the lyirics were just taken over from a shore song. And whne we say that some texts sound too "literary," I think we mean in part that men doing backbreaking work would be unlikely to find them either inspiriting, soothing, or humorous: in other words, no help to getting the work done. A good work song is direct in diction and doesn't require much thinking about the lyrics. I'd think that shanties with sad themes or melodies might have been sung mostly in miserable weather when it was hard to get up much energy for what had to be done. But that's not to say they weren't sung, or that they might not strike us today as absurdly sentimental. Doesn't Masefield say that hearing "Hanging Johnny" at night in the rain was one of the most melancholy songs he'd ever heard? Surely he wasn't making that up. I'm still trying to recover from the disillusioning experience of discovering just how much A. L. Lloyd tinkered with his materials. (And the liner notes always made a point of his whaleship experiences in the '30s!) Take away the element of reality (like hearing Carpenter's singers performing the real words they actually sang in 1880), and traditional music losses much of its appeal. To me, anyway. If somebody like Jody Stecher openly admits improving a song, that's fine. If somebody like Lloyd doesn't, while also implying it's the real thing, I feel a little queasy. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:57 PM Devil's advocate here, but surely folk singing always involves a bit of tinkering as part of the whole process of "take it, sing it in your own voice, and pass it on". I accept that if you're collecting and publishing something as having been collected from a particular person in a particular place who sang it in that way, then there's a duty to report and be as rigorous as you can about it. And I suppose in some of what he did, Lloyd was a 'collector' in this way. But I think that the problem with saying that something has to be performed with a very particular reality, as it was sung at a particular time, is that it ceases to be folk music, it becomes archival material, ossified and locked down. My rule of thumb is to hope for clarity, rigour, and honesty from collectors (within the bounds of realism). But equally, when people are acting as singers, not as collectors, then I allow people who are singing to do what people have done for generations - make it their own, give it new life, and pass it on. That's certainly what I do - I don't pretend that anything I sing is "as it was in 1880". I'm not a historical reenactor, I'm a singer. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:59 PM (Sincere apologies for going off topic, just got carried away thinking aloud there. I cursed at myself as soon as I hit submit and realised that I was encouraging drift away from what's a very good thread on Lowlands Away... I suspect any further discussion on this should probably move to a different thread.) |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 04:51 PM Hi, Richard. What you're saying is relevant. Keep it coming. The issue with Lloyd was that he'd let you think it was something historical. The issue isn't with people singing whatever they want, it's how they present it. It goes beyond one individual. "Innocent" tinkering -- making *plausible* changes and letting them pass as historical -- begins to pile up as lots of people do that. New narratives form, new ways of seeing the material. Those narratives become very strong with each successive performance. The newness is good if we have a sense that's what it is. But if it gets in the way of knowing history, or contradicts history, for some people that can be very unsatisfying. One of my beefs with chanty singing today is that people are NOT making up enough new stuff, that what they sing is based TOO much in the past. But there is a certainly level of satisfaction that comes when the new stuff is based, accurately, in the "spirit" of the past "tradition," as vague as that concept might be. There is a "language" and an orientation and a spirit of the genre. Often, this language/orientation/spirit has been set "off course." In the case of Lowlands, as a performer today, I feel a sinking feeling that people have pushed the song off course with this mournful dead lover stuff. Even if that existed, I feel like it may have been marginal. I think the whole idea of the dead lover theme places Lowlands into some kind of conceptual/mental "world" that may be somewhat off-base for this song and for chanties generally. When Hugill says that sailors didn't allow "sob stuff," but that this was an exception, could it really be that it *wasn't* an exception per se, but rather the sentimental atmosphere had been a new narrative built up? I haven't analyzed Hugill's presentation in detail yet, but there is a chance that most of what his impressions were of the song were based in ideas that had already been created before he even started sailing. The dead lover theme puts an emphasis on Northern England while the dollar theme puts an emphasis on the American South. OK, both could have existed, been influences. But these themes can have far reaching implications for what one believes about shanties and this shanty in particular. And those beliefs shape performances, even ones where one is creating something new. If I believe the shanty has Northern UK origins I would perform it differently than if I think it is from Alabama. This woman who made the art installation that used "Lowlands" and presented it as some kind of sweet song of fairy sprites in old Scotland (I am being sarcastic) has done something that does not sit well with me. She could only have done it if there were a strong narrative along those lines, and I for one want to understand whether that narrative, which goes against my "FWIW" intuitive sense of the genre, has basis in reality. Our performances have to have a sense of truth to them. Perhaps not "historical accuracy," but what we believe to be the truth. Great performers, I think, "know" their genre/tradition well, with a very good intuitive sense of what "belongs," and because of that, they are able to create new stuff that really belongs -- i.e. what is satisfying. My thoughts. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:17 PM I doubt that the dead lover theme was performed during work, but it may well have been sung off-duty. I don't like the characterization of "Lowlands Away" as an "Alabama" song. Cotton-screwing, before the demise of slavery, was done by English and Irish sailors (and others, mostly white, attracted by the wages) who could make more money in Mobile (or other cotton port) than ship-board pay. The song, used as a chantey, would be sung at sea, perhaps on voyages that never included a southern U.S. port. With Doerflinger, I believe that the song was of British origin. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:32 PM |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:53 PM With Doerflinger, I believe that the song was of British origin. OK, but why? Funny that Doerflinger says there were two themes, and yet all three of the versions he collected were the "dollar" theme. He appears to be buying into what he has *read*, because he quotes Masefield in support of the British "dead lover" theme. Yet Masefield, the English poet, is the one whose work and unsubstantiated, biased ideas I have been questioning. Or is it the "dollar" version that you'd also call British in origin on the strength of the fact of there being ample British cotton-screwers? What are the data that are suggesting British origin, and are those from a good source. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LOWLANDS AWAY (C. Fox Smith) From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:05 PM Gibb- You asked what C. Fox Smith had to say about this song in , © 1927, p. 30-31: Halliard Shanty "Lowlands away" is the classic example of one of the outstanding characteristics of the shanty; namely, the way in which the most trivial and indeed meaningless words are wedded to haunting and beautiful melodies. The more modern words -- not that they are really very modern, since they were already well-known in the 'fifties and practically extinct before the 'eighties, very few of the younger generation of sailing ship men having ever heard the shanty -- are a debased version of a still older song. The horrible material refrain of "A dollar and a half a day," which is so hopelessly out of keeping with the sad, lingering cadence of the melody, and the references to "hoosiers" and such strange waterfowl, are quite obviously later interpolations. The older version is on the familiar theme of the dead lover, so popular with the folk singer, to whom and to whose audiences a thoroughly miserable story was as the breath of life; and the "Lowlands" refrain is found in more than one old song and ballad, like the well-known "Golden Vanitee," and that which tells how "The Lowlands of Holland have twined my Love and me." Smith definitely made her point of view quite clear! She provides two versions of the shanty: Version A Lowland, lowlands, away my John! Lowlands away, I heard them say, Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! Lowlands away, I heard them say -- My dollar and a half a day! A dollar a day is a hoosier's pay -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! A dollar a day is a hoosier's pay -- My dollar and a half a day! Oh my old mother wrote to me -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! She wrote to me to come home from sea My dollar and a half a day! Lowlands away, I heard them say, Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! Lowlands away, I heard them say -- My dollar and a half a day! Version B (same melody) I dreamed a dream the other night -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! I dreamed a dream the other night -- My lowlands away! I thought I saw my own true love -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! I thought I saw my own true love -- My lowlands away! I thought my love was drowned and dead -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! I thought my love was drowned and dead -- My lowlands away! I believe she preferred Version B. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:55 PM Comments on Harlow's text. 1. Oh, were you ever in Mobile Bay? A-screwing cotton all the day, Whall, whom Harlow read, had, O was you ever in Mobile Bay, A screwing cotton by the day ? Yet, Whall says this was a "regulation" verse, and I don't see any reason to question it. 2. A black man's pay is a dollar a day; A dollar and a half is a white man's pay. Also sounds like a regulation or typical verse. 3. Oh, were you ever in New Orleans? That's where you meet the Southern Queens, Only Harlow has this. Sounds pretty 'folk' to me, and original. 4. I wish I was in Slomes Hall, A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball. Here's the first "funny" one. Clark (1910) had, I wish I was in Slewer's Hall, A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball, What is "Slomes Hall"? What is the chance that these were actually two different memories of the same verse by two different fellows? The verse sounds too incidental, to me, to have been common...which points to a borrowing (?) 5. Oh, my old mother, she said to me, "Come home my boy and quit the sea." Whall had, O my old mother she wrote to me, She wrote to me to come home from sea, He also says this was a regulation verse, but none of the other versions have it. Harlow may have borrowed it. 6. I dreamed a dream the other night, I saw my love dressed all in white. Sampson (1927) had, I dream'd a dream the other night I saw my true love all in white 7. She stood and gazed in one blank stare, And combed the ringlets of her hair. Literary sounding, but not found elsewhere. 8. Her face was pale and white as snow; She spoke to me in accents low. Davis (1906) had, She spoke in accents sweet and low, "How true my love is well you know." 9. "I'll cut away my bonny hair, No other man shall think me fair. Masefield (1906) had, I will cut away my bonny hair, No other man shall think me fair, And Sampson (1927) had, I'll cut away all my bonny hair, No other man shall deem me fair, Seems like Harlow borrowed this from Masefield. 10. "I'll cut my breasts until they bleed, From you, my love, I'll soon be freed. Masefield had, I will cut my breasts until they bleed, 11. "I'll jump into the Lowland Sea, And drown myself for love of thee. Masefield had, "I am drowned in the Lowland seas," he said, Sampson had, I'm drowned in the Lowland sea he said, 12. "With seaweed green about my head, You'll find me there, but I'll be dead." Masefield had, He was green and wet with weeds so cold, Sampson had, And the wet green weeds are all my bed, 13. I then awoke to hear the cry, "Hey, you sleepers! Watch ahoy!" Davis had, But then awoke to hear the cry, "Rouse out the watch, ho, watch, ahoy," For me, the verses in the "dead lover" section, starting verse 6, are just too similar to distinctive verses of Davis and Masefield (followed by Sampson) -- the two people to offer that theme. Funny, Davis has the lover male and Masefield has the lover female; both create consistent narratives. But Harlow's mixes verses from the two. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:02 PM Great, Charley! |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:49 PM Something to think about re: tunes. Only Alden (and those who copied him, LA Smith and Tozer) and the weird Luce revised edition (which I think was revised by making use of Smith) give a minor melody. All the other notated version (i.e. including the field recordings) use the major mode. But-- Hugill first gives it in minor, in connection with the "away" chorus (i.e. as in Alden's form). He then gives the major mode to accompany the "dollar" chorus form. The shape of both melodies is the same. The only thing that changes are accidentals -- lowering/raising 3 and/or 7th degree of the scale. Could this have been the result of the perception of blue notes or some other 'neutral' tones, in Alden? Is Hugill just following suit here? Funny that he is able to provide 2 different tunes, but does not say where they're from. In his performances, despite what's in the book, he sang the "away" chorus to the major mode melody. I wonder if the major mode melody wasn't the "correct" (dominant) one, and, as I said, Alden just got confused by the intonation. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:50 AM I think this thread has all the sources of info I've seen for "Lowlands" (*except for Hugill)-- enough at least to try to say some things about it. All my opinion/interpretation, of course, but one can decide for oneself -- the evidence is here. Or else, please bring more evidence! The field-collected versions, reproduced faithfully, are: *Charles Rosher, in 1906. A dollar and a half is a poor man's pay. A dollar and a half it won't clear my way. *John Perring, in 1908. Five dollars a day is a white man's pay. But a dollar and a half is a nigger's pay. The nigger works both night and day. But the white man, he works but a day. *Henry Bailey, in 1914 or earlier I'm bound away, I heard him say, A dollar and a half is a oozer's pay, A dollar and a half won't pay my way ; A dollar and a half is a white-man's pay. We're bound away to Mobile Bay ; *John Short, in 1914 or earlier The dollar a day is a oozier's pay What shall we poor matelos do *John Farr, in 1927 I thought I heard our captain say. We're sailing straight for Mobile Bay, I thought I heard our captain cry A dollar and a half is a whiteman's pay. *Richard Maitland (went to sea ca.1869/70), in the 30s or early 40s Five dollars a day is a stevedore's pay; A dollar a day is a nigger's pay. I thought I heard our old man say, That he would give us grog today, When we are leaving Mobile Bay. In the Virginia lowlands I was born, I worked all day down in the corn, I packed my bag and I'm going away; I'll make my way to Mobile Bay. In Mobile Bay, where they work all day, A-screwing cotton by the day, Five dollars a day is a white man's pay, A dollar and a half is a colored man's pay. *William Fender, in 1929 I thought I heard our old man say, A dollar a day is a poor man's pay, So shake her up from down below, *Capt. James A. Delap, 1860s journal A bully ship and bully crew, And a bully mate to put us through, I wish I was in Liverpool, With the Liverpool girls I would slip round. Oh, heave her up and away we'll go Oh, heave her up from down below. Oh, a dollar and a half is a shellback's pay, But a dollar and a half is pretty good pay. Oh, rise, old woman, and let us in, For the night is cold and I want some gin. All of these have the "dollar and a half" chorus. Lyrically, they are non-narrative (like most chanties), and relate to a "working for dollars/Mobile Bay" theme or have typical IMO floating verses. continued... |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 30 Jul 11 - 06:39 AM Another category of sources includes writings by former chanteymen. Some of these fellows had read books about chanties. Their presentations are meant to represent the chanties as they knew them, but may have been tweaked a bit, either under the influence of prior writing or to spruce them up. ...Actually, in this category I'm only including those about which I (*personal interpretation alert*) specifically feel were probably not influenced in a significant way by prior writing. *Lahee (1900, in The Sea Breeze) ...the chorus ended up with "five dollars and a half a day," — which might just as well be any other price you like to mention, as it was the sailor's dream of the pay which he could get in some other place where he was not. ... *Whall (1910), experience in the 1860s and early '70s. Learned chanty in 1862. O my old mother she wrote to me, She wrote to me to come home from sea, A dollar a day is a Hoosier's pay, O was you ever in Mobile Bay, A screwing cotton by the day ? *Bullen (1914), experience in 1870s Lowlands away I heard them say *Robinson (1917), experience in 1860s> Note the disclaimer: As may well be imagined, I cannot exactly recall all the original verses... In a crude way, however, I have endeavored to carry the spirit and sense of the originals into the words which I have written down. Last night I dreamt of my true love. She begged me ne'er again to rove. All except for the last (which has "Lowlands Away") have the "dollar" chorus. And Robinson is the only from this set to have the "dream" theme. All of Robinson's material generally looks to be quite original, and only the late-ish date of his publication and his disclaimer bring room for doubt. Unless the language of the brief text, itself, tells anything? This is the one outlier in the bunch, and it would be nice to hear opinions on it. The remaining presentations (i.e. not yet collated) are by non-chantymen who were not strict collectors and/or by sailors/chantymen who borrowed from previous authors' works. For this reason, it's in the above sources (this post and the one above) that I put the most faith w/ respect to historical accuracy. cont... |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:07 AM The interesting thing, Charley, is that version B doesn't go into any details, much less poetic details. Smith's versions of shanties, whatever the romantic content of her comments, look pretty authentic to me. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:22 AM Richard, I think you should sing a song any way you want. My point is that it's deceptive and harmful to an understanding of past culture to present heavily improved versions of traditional songs as the real McCoy. I don't mean just an inconsequential word or two: I mean rewrites and obvious stylistic improvements. All it would take to fix the problem would be to admit, "This is pretty much how it goes, but I've added a few of my own touches." That's what Martin Carthy does. Not many performers in the '50s or '60s were that straightforward. Millions of people more or less assumed that Peter, Paul, and Mary, for example, were singing authentic American folk songs. "Presentism" is the assumption that people in the past mostly thought and behaved just as we do. Well, some of them may have, but society had many different norms, people were much less sophisticated in certain ways, the general sense of humor was rather different, etc. And the farther back you go, the greater and more pervasive the differences. With shanties, we're talking about the tastes - well over a hundred years ago - of tough,(mostly) very poorly educated working men who led extraordinarily hard lives by any standard. Many of them might really have enjoyed singing a tearjerker about a drowned lover nbo and then. Broadside ballads are filled with that sort of thing. They wouldn't be if the themes didn't sell. But can you imagine even a great ballad singer of the 1850s on American Idol? The mind boggles. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM I would never consider a song composed by an English soldier serving in India about an Indian subject to be 'Indian' or Asian; similarly a song sung by English-Irish sailors or cotton screwers who happened to work temporarily in Mobile is not an "Alabama" song. --------------------- I would agree, most folk songs, including work songs and the kind labeled chanteys, are sung in the styles of today. Except during the "rediscovery" period of the 1950s, their popularity did not extend to a general audience. The 'tearjerkers' of the 19th century either make us cringe or smile, but we no longer share their feeling. Few of the songs of the early 20th century ( E. g., the volume Heart Songs, "Dear to the American People,") are heard today, let alone those of the mid-19th century. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:35 PM cont... The second-hand sources are the next set of evidence. There is a dramatic difference between the form of the song described in these second-hand sources and that found in the field-collected or chantyman-direct ones. These are: **Once a Week (1868) (> Chambers's 1869) Gives title "Lowlands." Capstan. **Alden (1882) Unknown how/whence the journalist got this. Windlass. I dreamt a dream the other night. Lowlands, Lowlands, Hurrah, my John. I dreamt I saw my own true love. My Lowlands aray. One supposes that "aray" was a typo for "away," but up to this point, strictly speaking (suspending judgement), there is no way to say it was for sure. There hadn't yet been any other testimony that the word "away" was part of the song. Notably, the first chorus had "hurrah," not the "away" of today's popular version. Also mentions the "dollar" chorus, saying it was the "original" – yet it's unclear how he'd know this. **Dixon (1883) Title, "Lowlands." Heaving anchor by windlass. **The New York Times (1884) Anonymous journalist says the choruses were "Lowlands Away, my John," and "My dollar and a half a day." **Smith (1888) This is an exact copy of Alden. The "aray" in Alden was parsed into 2 syllables under the musical score, as "a-ray." Smith slavishly copied it in that form, even while as text on its own. Following Alden, also mentions alternate chorus, "My dollar and a half a day." But when she tries to create a mock-up of this, she puts it as the first chorus: Lowlands, Lowlands, away, my John. My dollar and a half a day. I took up my clothes and I went away. Lowlands, Lowlands, a-ray. Smith's collection was widely read, but later writers ignored the second version. **All the Year Round 1888 The anonymous author has culled all the information from LA Smith, whose book was just recently published. **Luce (1902) Source in unclear. All of the chanties in this collection's first edition were culled from elsewhere. This revised edition adds some more, some clearly from LA Smith's work. So, the principal was not to do original fieldwork, but rather to compile. However, the version of "Lowlands" is not obviously from a previous print source. For heaving. I thought I heard the old man say. Lowlands, lowlands, my Johnny, That this would be our sailing day, A dollar and a half a day. **Davis and Tozer (3rd edition, 1906) They added "Lowlands" (for Anchor) in this edition, i.e. after Smith's collection became available. The idiosyncratic tune is exactly the same as in Smith/Alden, telling us that the authors were not really familiar with the song. The first verse is the same as Smith/Alden, too, except instead of guessing that "aray" was typo for "away," they looked to the "hurrah" of the first chorus and guess it should be "hooray." They titled the song "Lowlands" and there is no evidence they had any idea it might be called "Lowlands Away." I dreamt a dream the other night, Lowlands, Lowlands, hooray, my John. I dreamt I saw my own true love, My Lowlands, hooray. As I've already said, I think that because they did not know any more of the song beyond one verse, they extrapolated and made up a narrative for the rest of it. In the narrative, the first of its kind in evidence, there is a dead lover who is *female*. **Masefield 1906 Masefield's presentation was colored by his sensibility as a poet and also his biased view that chanties were British creations by default and that one should look to place their origins in older English texts. One may compare this to Alden (1882), who lived closer to a time when chanties were in use and when people were talking about them as more typically American. Masefield, then, was writing at a time when English folklorists were beginning to couch them as typically English. Like Davis/Tozer, he also had no inkling that the phrase "Lowlands AWAY" was to be sung. This is in evidence by his slavish replication of Smith's format: I Dreamt a dream the other night, Lowlands, Lowlands, hurrah, my John; I dreamt a dream the other night, My Lowlands a-ray. Followed by, I dreamt I saw my own true love, If he had ever heard it sung, I doubt he would have done that. Masefield's experience as a sailor in more recent times meant he was familiar with some chanties, but evidently this was not one of them. Therefore, I reason that his text after the first verse, a narrative about a dead lover who is *male*, was fabricated. Whether Masefield's lyrics sound plausible or not (e.g. "too literary", "based in something actually heard"), to me, is a moot point given his evident lack of familiarity with the song. I have pointed out that Masefield deliberately sought to explain chanty texts in relation to English ballads. In the very same collection he has the ballad of "The Lowlands of Holland", to which he would have been able to make a connection and extrapolate a full text from the suggestion (i.e. in Alden's verse) about dreaming about a lover. On the other hand/also, Davis' version, the first to contain a dead lover narrative, may have suggested it. Prior to this work, in January of the same year, Masefield came out with an article that contained 13 chanties (later reproduced in Sailor's Garland, which contained 12 more). After that, it seems, Davis's revised (3rd ed.) collection came out with the newly added "Lowlands." And *then*, I believe, Sailor's Garland came, which added Lowlands to Masefield's set of chanties. We know that Masefield referenced both Davis and Smith's collections, for in his earlier article he wrote, Those who wish to study chanties will find Miss Laura Smith's anthology, "Music of the Waters," of service to them. Other collections of value are Dr. Ferris Tozer's excellent "Forty Sailors' Songs or Chanties" That was in reference to Davis's 2nd ed. His Sailor's Garland has a similar note, but it is unclear whether he may have seen the 3rd ed. by then – and I'm not sure exactly when that year the 3rd edition came out. A last idiosyncrasy to note in Masefield's presentation is that while others have had this as a heaving chanty, he has it for halliards. This can be read two ways. Either it is further evidence of his lack of familiarity with this chanty (I think). Or, those who might rationalize it (being opinionated here!) and say "yeah, but the use of chanties could vary, you never know" might interpret this as evidence of the uniqueness of Masefield's version! I am going to stop here for a moment. Reviewing the above, I notice a few things. - A second chorus of "Lowlands AWAY", up to this point, had not been noted by anyone. While the field sources do not give it at all, these second-hand sources give only the contentious "Lowlands aray", which is only original to Alden (all the other who had it can be seen to have copied it from other writers – except for Robinson, who wrote a bit later, and who presents a different issue.) - All of these second-hand sources, if they supply a tune, use the minor key tune originally provided by Alden – a tune which does not appear in any of the field collected texts (and which have major key tunes). Exception to this is Luce's, which is also minor key, but if one looks at that tune, one sees that it is quite odd musically, as if perhaps a mistake was made (i.e. the difference is accounted for by mistake in re-writing Alden's tune in a different key signature.) - Davis and Masefield are the two authors to provide a dead lover theme. Aden's original one verse might suggest that theme, but there is too little to say this was the theme. Davis and Masefield, at least one of which read the other's work, had demonstrable reasons to "want to" extrapolate the lyrics in such a fashion. There are considerable reasons to doubt that the lyrics they extrapolated were sung, the main one being that both authors seem to have been unfamiliar with the song in real life experience. - Additionally, these two authors to present the theme do it differently in that in one the dead lover is male and in the other, female. This is of interest re: the impression that Hugill gives that there were two variations in the theme "out there", as if after extensive analysis of collected version that fact emerged. In reality, at least one of those "variations" appeared somewhere, and in places of dubious authenticity. Numerous other texts can be found in the 1900s-1920s that re-used either Davis's or Masefield's texts, without citing their source. So, the weighty impression made by these presentations was disproportionate to the scant authentic historical evidence. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:18 AM I was in error in saying that "Lowlands" was added to Davis/Tozer's 3rd edition. I now have evidence that it was added in the 2nd edition (ca.1890). So scratch the above speculation about when exactly in 1906 Masefield got access to Davis' version of the song. He'd already had it when he wrote his Jan 1906 article. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:55 AM Also, FWIW Davis's has nothing about the lover (female) being dead/drowned. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: doc.tom Date: 01 Aug 11 - 04:38 AM Hi Gibb What I posted above was the total of what was in Sharp's (notebooks from Short) - so, yup!, you got it. TomB |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:04 AM The rest of the second-hand (or unclear derivation) sources come after the influential and stand-out presentations of Davis and Masefield. **Clark (1910) He is writing somewhat vaguely (possibly anachronously) when he gives his text, Not sure what the source was. Heaving anchor. "I wish I was in Slewer's Hall, Lowlands, lowlands, hurra, my boys, A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball, My dollar and a half a day." **Terry (1921) Version was based in that of Capt. John Runciman. However, Terry's chanties were composites, which used material from different places in order to create performable versions. Terry had great respect for Whall's writing, and he also referenced Davis/Tozer. The text switches oddly (perhaps not?!) between a cotton screwing and a dead lover theme. Judge for your self whether you'd think that was likely or, rather )as I suspect) it is evidence of a composite that has been created. The cotton screwing verses are very similar or identical to Whall's, though if these were "regulation" verses, that could also explain it. The dead lover themed verses has the lover as female, as in Davis. About the latter them, Terry makes this statement: In North-country ships the shantyman used to make much of the theme of a dead lover appearing in the night. It's impossible to say whether Terry really did an extensive survey of "North-country ships'" sailors, and compared them with others, in order to make this specific statement. However, I feel it was likely he was influenced in this through John Runciman, the literateur's, ideas. Runciman had written some stories set in a North Country cultural milieu, collected in 1885's _Skippers and Shellbacks_. It contains this passage: A merry sailorman came clattering along the alley in his heavy sea boots; his oilskins and sou'wester poured multitudinous streams from all their crinkles as he walked, and his face shone with the wet. He was singing: "Says she, 'My love, I'm dead and gone! Lowlands, lowlands, And on my head they've put a stone; Good-bye, my love, in the lowlands.'" He sang this sorrowful ditty as if it were quite a comic affair, and he was evidently a high-spirited fellow. I don't know what this 'ditty' was – a ballad? I can't scan it as the chanty. If Runciman knew "Lowlands" and he gave it to Terry (w/ the "dollar" chorus), what did he intend to write here? This all makes it confusing just what Runciman may have given to Terry and how he produce this: 6. Lowlands away Lowlands, Lowlands, Away my John, Lowlands, away, I heard them say, My dollar and a half a day. 1. A dollar and a half a day is a Hoosier's pay. Lowlands, Lowlands, Away my John. A dollar and a half a day is very good pay. My dollar and a half a day. 2. Oh was you ever in Mobile Bay. Screwing the cotton by the day. 3. All in the night my true love came, All in the night my true love came. 4. She came to me all in my sleep. (twice) 5. And hër eyes were white my love. (twice) 6. And then I knew my love was dead. (twice) **Colcord (1924) Based on just her lyrics, which I have *second-hand* (warning!) as follows, it looks like she did this: Took the first two verses based on the canonical print version from Alden, and then the other two verses come from Terry's collection. With Colcord the chorus has ~changed~ positively to "Lowlands away". This would have come from Robinson, whose article she referenced. I dreamed a dream the other night, Lowlands, Lowlands, away, my John, I dreamed a dream the other night, My Lowlands, away! I dreamed I saw my own true love, She came to me all in my sleep, And then I knew my love was dead. **CF Smith (1927) I don't know what she would have said were here sources of knowledge on this, but based on her breakdown and lyrics, Version A looks to be referencing Terry (whose other ideas she also repeats) and maybe Whall. Version B is like other print versions (Alden trajectory), with the addition of "drowned and dead." The only evidence for this point for "drowned" has been Masefield. Curiously, like Masefield, she also calls it a halliard chanty. Would like to know more about where she would have gotten it. She says, The older version is on the familiar theme of the dead lover but there is no way she could have known that (and it contradicts Alden's opinion, FWIW). So that sounds like an assumption of her imagination that could have been influenced by Masefield's ballad-style presentation. On the other hand, she says The more modern words -- not that they are really very modern, since they were already well-known in the 'fifties and practically extinct before the 'eighties, very few of the younger generation of sailing ship men having ever heard the shanty -- are a debased version of a still older song. Sampson also called the "dollar" form "debased." Not sure if his 1927 publication was available first, or vice versa. How Smith knew it was well known in the 50s is a mystery. And what she says about the younger sailors not knowing it echoes what Terry said. So then, did she interview these older men, and they gave her the info? This may also be the first to reify the distinction between "2 versions." I wonder what tune she used. That would tell us something. Version A Lowland, lowlands, away my John! Lowlands away, I heard them say, Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! Lowlands away, I heard them say -- My dollar and a half a day! A dollar a day is a hoosier's pay -- Oh my old mother wrote to me -- She wrote to me to come home from sea Version B I dreamed a dream the other night -- Lowlands, lowlands, away my John! I dreamed a dream the other night -- My lowlands away! I thought I saw my own true love -- I thought my love was drowned and dead -- **Sampson (1927) As I've already pointed out, a few of his lines must have come from Masefield. Ergo he read Masefield, and that helped influence his idea about the "modern," "debased," dollar forms. Lowlands, my Lowlands away my John, Lowlands away, I hear them say, Lowlands, my lowlands away. I dream'd a dream the other night Lowlands my lowlands away my John, I saw my true love all in white, Lowlands my Lowlands away. I dreamed my love came in my sleep, And said my dear why do you weep, I'm drowned in the Lowland sea he said, And the wet green weeds are all my bed, Oh my love he's drowned in the lowland seas, And never again shall I him please, I'll cut away all my bonny hair, No other man shall deem me fair, **Harlow (1962) I believe he created something that was partly based his 1870s memories and partly in print versions that he'd referenced. If my analysis is correct, the latter would have been both Masefield and Davis. Oh, were you ever in Mobile Bay? Lowlands, lowlands, away my John. A-screwing cotton all the day, My dollar and a half a day. A black man's pay is a dollar a day; A dollar and a half is a white man's pay. Oh, were you ever in New Orleans? That's where you meet the Southern Queens, I wish I was in Slomes Hall, A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball. Oh, my old mother, she said to me, "Come home my boy and quit the sea." I dreamed a dream the other night, I saw my love dressed all in white. She stood and gazed in one blank stare, And combed the ringlets of her hair. Her face was pale and white as snow; She spoke to me in accents low. "I'll cut away my bonny hair, No other man shall think me fair. "I'll cut my breasts until they bleed, From you, my love, I'll soon be freed. "I'll jump into the Lowland Sea, And drown myself for love of thee. "With seaweed green about my head, You'll find me there, but I'll be dead." I then awoke to hear the cry, "Hey, you sleepers! Watch ahoy!" To summarize my interpretation here: In the wake of Davis and Masefield's presentations, numerous, subsequent non-scholar writers ran with the powerful and attractive idea that "Lowlands" must have been based original in the ballad theme of a dead lover appearing in a dream. The idea sounded most plausible to people in the early 20th century who had begun to construct a narrative of chanties as old English products – a notion that can be contrasted with 19th century commenters' characterization of chanties as something more recent and largely American (incl. Afro-American). Critical review of the writing, however, reveals that the dead lover theme is found in only a few reputable sources, and even those sources are of ambiguous authenticity. Alden's was one. The verse he gave only suggested that a lover appeared in a dream, and not necessarily that a dead lover narrative was to be spun out following. Even he claimed that this was not the original, however, but his opinion was lost in subsequent derivative presentations of the text. The other text worth considering is Robinson's, again only one verse. It, too, does not indicate a *dead* lover necessarily. And, unfortunately, it comes after lots of prior writing, and the author provides less surety that he is giving a sample as actually sung. In my opinion, these two opening verses suggest that a dead lover narrative was plausible, but only because that idea existed in folklore. They don't provide any actual evidence that the song continued on in that way. And the ground zero for full versions of that theme (Davis and Masefield) consists of highly dubious texts. A horizontal study, such as comparison with other sons, may suggest something else. But from my reading of this evidence related to this specific song, its doubtful that a "dead lover" theme existed. If, for the sake of argument, one imagines that it did exist, then must must still concede that it was quite *uncommon* or that, perhaps, it never really was a chanty. And yet, due to all the copying of suggestive texts, and to their own very suggestive nature ("my bonny hair" just screams Scotland/Northern England!), the impression of the nature and origins (= form in use in chanty days) has been greatly skewed. Hugill cemented the skewed interpretation when he accepted, uncritically the terms set out by prior non-scholar writers. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:29 AM Re Sampson and Masefield. We can be sure he did read Masefield and others. He frequently gives quotes about the songs from them, but never admits to relying on them for words. Remember he states that he sang every song himself at sea and that he has a good memory. Masefield actually provides a foreword to Sampson's book and comments only that some words were changed but only for decency. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Aug 11 - 07:54 AM C. Fox Smith uses the same tune for both her "A" and "B" versions; I don't read music, however. Smith did interview shantymen while she was in residence in Victoria, BC, from 1911-1913, and back in England after she returned in the fall of 1913 but we (my team of volunteers) haven't recovered any of her notes or diaries. She did correspond with Joanna Colcord when they were both drafting their collections of traditional sea songs, but I've only found one letter from Colcord back to Smith discussing her poem "Rosario"; the rest of the Colcord archives at the Penobscot Maritime Museum are unfortunately in disarray. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Aug 11 - 08:46 AM Frank Shay adds this personal note to the discussion, from An American Sailor's Treasury, © 1948/1951, p. 49: "The writer first heard this capstan chantey in a dense fog off Quarantine: our ship had come up in the night and anchored in the Narrows awaiting the clearing. Tumbling on deck at dawn, unable to see our hands before our faces, let alone the welcome green hills of Staten Island, we tried to find our position with our ears. All we could distinguish was the clanking of an anchor chain on our starboard, the noises unusual in an iron ship, more sonorous because of the fog, and then the doleful voice with a Cockney accent singing the song as a ballard. It was the perfect setting for a dirge." Shay's first version is the one with the drowned lover. The second is "The Lawlands o' Holland," followed by "My dollar and a half a day," ending with this fragment: I wish I were in the Dutchman's Hall. Lowlands, lowlands, hurrah, my boys! A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball, My dollar and a half a day! William Doerflinger, in his Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman, p. 81, has a version which he references to a diary of the 1860's (evidently Capt. James A. Delap's, 1860s journal), with the cotton-stowers' chorus but with seafaring verses: A bully ship and bully crew, Lowlands, lowlands, hurrah, my John, And a bully mate to put us through, My dollar and a half a day. I wish I was in Liverpool (town)*... With the Liverpool girls I would slip around... Oh, heave her up and away we'll go... Oh, heave her up from down below... Oh, a dollar and a half is a shellback's pay... But a dollar and a half is pretty good pay... Oh, rise, old woman and let us in... For the night is cold and I want some gin... * My correction Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:35 AM Gibb, mo ,atter what the bibliographies say, I believe the undated Third Ed. of Davis & Tozer should actually be dated to about 1890 or so. As I wrote on another thread, "D & T's publication dates are uncertain. The likely dates (based on the British Library record, information in WorldCat, and D & T's prefaces) seem to be 1886 or '87 for the first edition, 1888 for the second, and some time in the very early '90s for the third." My estimate of about 1890 (or even 1889) is based on the Preface to the Third Ed., which says: "The demand for a third edition, within a short time after the appearance of the second, has induced the Authors to add ten more Songs to the previous edition." They could not have written those words in 1906, eighteen years after the second edition's appearance. D & T also "offer their sincere thanks to Miss Laura A. Smith...for her kind permission to use some of the airs from her well-known book, 'The Music of the Waters.'" While looking for something completely different, I recently read in a newspaper of 1888 or '89 that the Second Ed. went out of print in just two or three months. That would explain why it's impossible to find in a library. My hunch is that D & T wanted to expand it further and had the extra songs on hand, and the publishers thought they should put out an expanded edition ASAP while there was still a good deal of public interest. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 01 Aug 11 - 10:55 AM The Third ed. might actually have been inspired by the appearance of Smith's book in 1888. WorldCat also lists a small pamphlet by Davis called "Fifty Sailor's Songs or Chanties (Words Only)" copyright 1897. These presumably are lyrics from the 3rd ed. It was published in Devonport and may have given material to some real shantymen (like Stanley Slade?) who favored more coherent songs. I should have made a note of the ref. to D&T's short-lived 2nd ed. I can't recall where I saw it: maybe not in a newspaper after all. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:32 AM D&T's first ed. was reviewed in "The Graphic" (London) on Sept. 9, 1887, in the column headed "New Music." The 1887 date is also that given by the British Library, so between the two it should probably be taken as authoritative. The National Maritime Museum in Greenwich dates their copy of the 3rd Ed. to "ca1890." D&T Mystery solved! (Thank God!) James J. Fuld's "Book of World-Famous Music," 5th ed. (N.Y.: Dover, 2000), p. 206, cites a letter from Boosey & Hawkes informing him that D&T's 2nd ed. was published Feb. 17, 1890, and was "withdrawn Feb. 18, 1890, for a reason not now known." The 3rd ed. was published "in 1891." SO, FINALLY: D&T ed. 1: Mid-1887. ed. 2: Feb. 1890. ed. 3: 1891. The acknowledgement to L. A. Smith in ed. 3 may be a clue as to why ed. 2 disappeared so quickly: D&T may have reprinted something before obtaining her publisher's permission. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 01 Aug 11 - 04:03 PM Thanks for figuring out the dates in the Davis edition, Lighter. The issue is also of the contents of each. What I had done was subtract the known contents of the 1st from the known contents of the 3rd and then...try to deduce what the contents of the 2nd might have been. In any case, I had "Lowlands" in the 3rd, but my publication date of 1906 fror the 3rd did not make sense. Because I found another source from 1895 that did a verbatim copy of DT's Lowlands. And since DT's Lowlands was inspired by Smith, whatever edition it was added to must have come out between 1888 and 1895. Charley-- Thanks for adding Shay! *If* you get any chance, could you be more specific about the texts in it? When you say that the first text was the drowned lover, I wonder about that since (as I have long-windedly been arguing) my current position is that Masefield introduced the idea. It would be nice to compare them in more detail. Also, in what way is the other text "The Lawlands o' Holland"? That one sounds suspiciously like someone wanted to draw or emphasize a connection. Keith-- Thanks for that note; helpful to know that Sampson and Masefield were 'friends.' In my reading of Sampson's lines, I find several that are excatly the same or very similar to Masefield's in a way that I think would be unlikely had Sampson been noting what he'd learned in oral tradition. Therefore, I think that while Sampson may have been experienced with this shanty, in this case he borrowed Masefield's verses to present as something "right"/standard and appropriate to the audience's interest. But it all comes down to individual interpretation. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:42 PM That withdrawal date should read "Feb. 28, 1890." |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE LAWLANDS O' HOLLAND From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Aug 11 - 06:06 PM Gibb- Grumble, grumble, more work!!!! From Shay, p. 50: Lowlands-1 I dreamed my love came in my sleep, Lowland, Lowlands, away, my John; His eyes were wet as he did weep -- My Lowlands, away! I shall never kiss you again, he said, Lowland, Lowlands, away, my John; For I am drowned in the Lowlands seas -- My Lowlands, away! No other man shall think me fair, Lowland, Lowlands, away, my John; My love lies drowned in the windy Lowlands -- My Lowlands, away! Some of the above verses don't rhyme which irritates me to no end but that's the way they's wrote! Shay's Notes: That the chantey derives from an old Scottish coronach, "The Lawlands o' Holland," seems evident, and English Jack handed it with more or less reverence. The Lawlands o' Holland The love that I hae chosen, I'll therewith be content; The sault sea sall be frozen Before that I repent; Repent it sall I never Until the day I dee; But the Lawlands o' Holland Hae twinn'd my love and me. My love he built a bonny ship, And set her to the main, Wi' twenty-four brave mariners To sail her out and hame; But the weary wind began to rise, The sea began to rout, And my love and his bonny ship Turned withershins about. There sall nae mantle cross my back, Nor kaim gae my hair, Neither sall coal nor candle light Shine in my bower mair; Nor sall I choose anither love Until the day I dee, Sin' the Lawlands o' Holland Hae twinn'd my love and me. Noo haud your tongue, my daughter dear, Be still, and bide content; There's ither lads in Galloway; Ye needna sair lament; O, there is nane in Galloway, There's nane at a' for me; I never lo'ed a lad but ane, And he's drown'd in the sea. More Shay notes: Lowlands suffered a sea change in crossing the Atlantic. The American sailors cared little enough for dirges; laments, yes, and gripes. In many versions he complained bitterly that he received but a dollar a day while the Negro roustabouts with whom he worked were paid a dollar and a half a day. Lowlands-2 Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John, My old mother she wrote to me, My dollar and a half a day! She wrote to me to come home from sea, Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John! She wrote to me to come home from sea, My dollar and a half a day! Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John, Oh, were you ever in Mobile Bay? My dollar and a half a day! A-screwing cotton by the day, Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John! A-screwing cotton by the day, My dollar and a half a day! Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John, A dollar a day is a Hoosier's pay, My dollar and a half a day! Yes, a dollar a day is a Hoosier's pay, Lowlands, lowlands, away, my John! Yes, a dollar a day is a Hoosier's pay, My dollar and a half a day! So it goes! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 02 Aug 11 - 12:38 PM "Lowlands" was one of several shanties you might have heard by listening very closely to "Moby Dick, Part I" on the Encore Family Channel last night. Crazy Elijah - who's Scottish in this version, which may explain his shanty choice - mumbles it to himself weirdly. He sings (as far as I can tell), "I dreamed a dream the other night... I dreamed, I dreamed a man was dead." Because all who sail with Ahab are doomed. There were also snatches of "Blood-Red Roses," "Blow, Boys, Blow" (discussed on another thread), "The Hog-Eye Man" (in the "railroad navvy" version, understandably) and "Leave Her Johnny." "The Hog-Eye Man" was sung and played on the fiddle at the Spouter Inn (much as was "A-Roving" in the 1956 version), to the merriment of all. The crew of the Pequod. a handsome topsail schooner this time around, was less merry as they started to sing "Leave Her Johnny" for fun in the forecastle. But they were interrupted. They sang"Blow, Boys, Blow" as a rowing song, and, IIRC, they sang "Blood-Red Roses" as they started cutting into the first dead whale. So far, no shanties while hoisting, haulong, or heaving. Part II tonight.... Almost forgot: on SyFy's "The Age of Dragons," the Pequod is a huge, medieval diesel-powered dragon-hunting tank ploted by Ahab's martial-arts proficient daughter, Rachel. She and Ishmael are kind of an item. No shanties, though - I told you it was deisel-powered. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 02 Aug 11 - 02:35 PM Daggoo also led the singing of "Blow Ye Winds Southerly." |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:23 AM Part II featured another chorus of "Blow Ye Winds Southerly" and "Haul Away, Joe" in the Clancy-Makem version with the awkward "To me" in the chorus. That was sung while they were lashing a dead whael to the side of the ship, and maybe while they were cutting in. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 03 Aug 11 - 04:16 PM ...he Clancy-Makem version with the awkward "To me" in the chorus... Love it! Thanks for the briefing. It certainly reads as a use of these chanties that's based in contemporary narratives of where they came from, how they should go, etc. Interesting. Charley-- Thanks for your time. That *does* clarify the situation. Funny that Shay found it necessary to reproduce the ballad to make his point. He loses some credibility with me when he says the White Americans were complaining that the Blacks were getting paid more. It's as is he could only envision Whites singing the song, and then he had to explain why *they'd* be complaining about wages. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:28 PM Thanks, Charley, for reminding me of Shay's book, sitting on my shelves untouched for several years. Shay loses credibility for something said by sailors? Truly, pc run wild. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 03 Aug 11 - 11:31 PM Shay loses credibility for something said by sailors? Truly, pc run wild. What on earth are you talking about? The sailors aren't saying anything, it's Shay who is. He has reproduced Whall's printed version of the song, not something directly from sailors. That is fine, except for the fact that others would say, based on lyrics in evidence, that the Blacks were complaining their wages were lower. In other situations, I think it's reasonable to say that whoever was singing might complain about their wages in general (not in comparison to another). But there is no evidence to suggest or IMO reason to believe Whites were complaining about lower wages than Blacks, is there? Shay did not know this to be a fact, nor is it even in the text; he is stating his imagination as fact. In many versions he complained bitterly that he received but a dollar a day while the Negro roustabouts with whom he worked were paid a dollar and a half a day. What "many versions"? The versions he read in books? He's talking out of his ass. "PC" has nothing to do with my criticism. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 04 Aug 11 - 04:06 AM Here's another field-collected version. 1927 Eckstorm, Fannie Hardy and Mary Winslow Smyth. _Minstrelsy of Maine: Folk-songs and Ballads of the Woods and the Coast_. Boston and New York: Houghton Mifflin. Sung by Frank Stanley of Cranberry Isles, Maine, Nov. 1925. Lowlands I wish I was in Alewers Hall, Lowlands, Lowlands, hurrah, my boys! A-drinking luck to the old Black Ball, My dollar and a half a day. This is the third occurrence of a similar verse. Yet the "Hall" has been named Slewer's, Slomes, and Alewers! What hall are they talking about here? Some place in NY/Liverpool? |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 04 Aug 11 - 04:37 AM Scratch the last source. It's evident that the song was not sung, but rather "contributed" --presumably in writing. It would have been obtained from Clark's 1910 work. So, "Alewers" is a typo. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:07 PM Having now looked at Colcord's melody, I can see that it is most likely based in Capt. Robinson's article. There are some very distinctive turns in that melody, different from the other collected versions, and one would be surprised to find that Colcord collected the same as Robinson's independently. Colcord made extensive use of Robinson's article(s) in compiling her collection. I looked at Shay's melody, quickly, and it also looks like Colcord's. Recall that none of the strictly field-collected version have a "Lowlands away" second chorus, and of the chantyman collections it is only Robinson who has it (and the "dream" theme). Robinson, I've remembered however, quoted extensively from Meloney...and author that repeated Masefield's stuff without acknowledgement. So though Robinson was an experienced chanty singer with much original information to offer, he did also "adjust" some of his chanties based on what he'd been able to read by 1917. |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 11 Aug 11 - 08:02 AM >Robinson, I've remembered however, quoted extensively from Meloney...and author that repeated Masefield's stuff without acknowledgement. So though Robinson was an experienced chanty singer with much original information to offer, he did also "adjust" some of his chanties based on what he'd been able to read by 1917. Very dismaying. OTOH, Robinson seems to have had no motive to misrepresent wht he knew. So I'd hope that most of what he repeated from print must have resembled very closely something he'd heard. I suppose that an unusually nice stanza might be an exception, but are there any like that? |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 18 Aug 11 - 01:37 AM 1938 Carpenter, J.M. "Chanteys in the Age of Sail." New York Times (30 October 1938). Pg. XX6. In this article, Carpenter trots out the 'dream' (and 'Scotland') ideas about "Lowlands," followed by verses from Colcord and Terry. However, while it seems at first he is buying that version, he then gives one of his collected versions (we have another up-thread; he doesn't say who sang this one), which has the "dollar" chorus and no "dreamy" atmosphere. Belonging to this group--at least in its slow pensive tune and dreamy atmosphere--is a curious chantey, "Low-lands." The refrain "low-land," is common to a great many songs. One Scottish song begins. "Low in the low-lands a wee, wee boy did wander"— And In the ballad, "The Golden Vanity"… …Usually in the chantey the refrain seems to have been employed purely for its music and for its atmospheric effect, as shown In the following stanza, quoted from Miss Colcord's collection: I dreamed a dream the other night, Low-lands, low-lands, away my John! I dreamed a dream the other night, My low-ands, away! To carry torward the story, stanzas from Sir Richard Terry's collection read: All in the night my true love came; She came to me all in my sleep. And her eyes were white my love. And then I knew my love was dead. …But my version, veering away, as usual, from the romance of the story, moves toward the sailors' world of winds and sails and seas: One night in Mobile the Yankees knew, Low-lands, low-lands! Away my John! The nor'west winds most bitter blew, My dollar and and a half a day! Our Captain was a grand old man, His name it was Jack Tannerand-tan. He called us aft and to us did say 'Now, my boys, we're bound to sea.' |
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Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE LOUISIANA LOWLANDS From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:05 AM Gibb- You evidently are on to something. So it all goes back to Masefield and others were captured by the elegance of his suggestion, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Now I don't believe you've explored the minstrel origin of "Lowlands" as in "The Old Virginia Lowlands" or its sister "The Old Louisiana Lowlands": "In the Louisiana Lowlands" (1859) Words and Music --- anon. Boston: Oliver Ditson [Source: pages 72-73 or "Minstrel Song, Old and New" (1883)] 1. Way down in Louisiana, Not many years ago, There liv'd a color'd gemblum, His name was Pompy Snow, He play'd upon de banjo And on de tambourine, And for rattling of the bones he was The greatest ever seen In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low, In the Louisiana lowlands low. CHORUS: In the Louisiana lowlands, lowlands low, In the Louisiana lowlands low. 2. One night old Pompy started off, To play for Ceasar Clum, But afore he went he fortified, With a good stout glass of rum; When on the road he thought he saw A darkey, tall and grim, So Pompy laid the banjo down Tto break the darkey's shin; In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low, In the Louisiana lowlands low. (CHORUS) 3. Says he, old chap, just move along Or else I'll spoil your face, But dis darkey didn't seem to move From out his hiding place, So drawing back, he crooked his head, And down at him cachunk, But Pompy made a sad mistake, for 'Twas nothing but a stump, In the Louisiana lowlands lowlands low, In the Louisiana lowlands low. (CHORUS) 4. The stump it proved a little hard, Too hard for Pompy's wool, For when he struck, the hickory knot, Went thru' the darkey's skull; They found his banjo by his side, And Pompy lying dead, [SPOKEN]---And Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the first time up a record that it was ever known of a darkey's ever coming to his death] By de breaking of his head. And dey buried him in the lowlands, lowlands low, In the Louisiana lowlands low. (CHORUS) There's also the West Indies "Lowlands" halyard shanty. According to Hugill, this song was learned from Old Smith from the island of Tobago in the West Indies in the 1930's. Halyard shanties are characterized by their brisk pace, facilitating the setting and re-setting of sails in a timely fashion.: Lowlands Low Our packet is the Island Lass, Refrain: Lowlands, lowlands, lowlands, low! There's a laddie howling at the main topmast, Refrain: Lowlands, lowlands, lowlands, low! The Ol' Man hails from Barbados... He's got the name of Hammertoes... He gives us bread as hard as brass... Our junk's as salt as a Portland lass... The sojer's dressed in the Ol' Man's clothes... Where he got'em from God only knows... It's up aloft this yard must go... It's up aloft from down below... Lowlands, me boys, an' up she goes... Git changed, me lads, to yer shore-goin' clothes... Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Gibb Sahib Date: 16 Jun 12 - 01:54 PM Hello All, Here's a link to a research paper I wrote related to this subject. It reflects my current opinions and interpretation of the evidence. Case Study of "Lowlands" |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:24 PM Very interesting paper, thanks for posting it. I don't entirely agree; along with Charley, I would give more credit to the development of the music hall and minstrel traditions- a combination of English and American roots and American proliferation of this popular type of entertainment, based on Black-influenced rhythms especially those of the work songs of the ports (you have presented this well). Which raises a question- why did not the agrarians and port workers of Europe and UK develop work songs to go along with their labors? (To put the question in harmony with chanties nomenclature, why 'forecastle' and recreational songs only?). |
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Subject: RE: 'Lowlands Away' - origins. From: Leadfingers Date: 16 Jun 12 - 02:54 PM 100 |
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