BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:28 AM

Surely Mukasey has that badly wrong - Assange is not personally subject to US jurisdiction, and any acts he did or authorised occurred outside US jurisdiction. Unless Mukasey thinks that US statutes apply to all people throughout the world (a piece of arrogance that would not surprise me but is surely offensive to most of the world) it would be much easier to prosecute the NYT than Assange.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 01:34 AM

Interesting comments.

Openleaks.com

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 10:24 PM

Yep Don, and hold Reserves in anything other than the US Dollar as well as pay for International Trades in anything but the US Dollar .... :-)


Boy, will THAT kick 'em in the nuts ... btw, you know what they did to Sadam when he tried that ....

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 07:40 PM

Right Alanabit.

Maybe we should dump the next consignment of Chrysler Crossfires in the harbour, and declare independence.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:56 PM

"Britain is more like a US colony than a state. We do what we are told, but we have no representation in the US government. "

History in reverse?


"documents where one diplomat or another thought that Putin was knothead, or whatever, are like... yawn... I really haven't seen any documents or heard of any that reveal much of anything useful..."

Basically what Kevin Rudd, our ex PM and current Foreign Minister said ... and he seemed to be the first politician to say that - some Aussie Journos said that before him...

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: bobad
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 06:23 PM

Mukasey: Prosecute Assange because it's 'easier' than prosecuting New York Times

By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Sunday, December 12th, 2010 -- 3:26 pm

It's come to the attention of some observers that there isn't much the US can charge Julian Assange with that it can't charge the New York Times with as well.

After all, the founder of WikiLeaks and the US's pre-eminent major daily both basically did the same thing: They published confidential State Department cables allegedly stolen by Pfc. Bradley Manning.

But for Michael Mukasey, President George W. Bush's last attorney general, the matter is clear cut: The US should prosecute Assange because it's "easier" than prosecuting a major news outlet.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/mukasey-prosecute-assange-easier-times/

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:45 PM

The US has no legal or moral claim to extradite Assange.

He has committed no crime.

Someone leaked info to him, and as a jourhalist he published it.

That ois wjhy they are trying to get their revenge by putting him away for ... er ... not raping someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 02:15 PM

I expect the U. S. to start extradition procedings against Assange.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM

The Nobel Peace prize has been compromised by the inclusion of Henry Kissinger and Barack Obama.

The alternative would be the Right Lively prize offered annually.

Malalai Joya should have been given a Nobel but the Nobel prize for peace is now a misnomer.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: alanabit
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 08:57 AM

Britain is more like a US colony than a state. We do what we are told, but we have no representation in the US government.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM

The problem I have about the wiki-leaks is that there isn't really all much stuff in them...

What I'd rather see are documents related to the Bush/Cheney war machine takin' us into Iraq... Or the documents where Karl Rove outed Valerie Plame...

I mean, documents where one diplomat or another thought that Putin was knothead, or whatever, are like... yawn... I really haven't seen any documents or heard of any that reveal much of anything useful...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:38 AM

Indeed the behaviour of the USA in such places as bases on Japanese soil such as spiriting away US servicemen back to the USA to avoid rape charges has not gone down well ...

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM

"Q - please remember that US law does NOT apply throughout the world, and we will fight you till our last breath should you seek to make it so. The world is not yet colonised by the USA.

Having said that, you appear confused as to the relevant law, and who has jurisdiction over what, and indeed whether breach of confidence is a criminal matter (which it generally isn't) or a civil matter.

Assange is not bound by the US equivalent of the Official Secrets Act, and he cannot be guilty of treason against the USA because he is not a citizen of the USA nor has the necessary wider connection established on one of the last UK show trials, the treason conviction of "Lord Haw Haw". "

Reposted by me - An Australian - Australia is NOT the 51st US state.... even thought we just paid about $4 million to have Oprah swan around here ...

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM

Q - please remember that US law does NOT apply throughout the world, and we will fight you till our last breath should you seek to make it so. The world is not yet colonised by the USA.

Having said that, you appear confused as to the relevant law, and who has jurisdiction over what, and indeed whether breach of confidence is a criminal matter (which it generally isn't) or a civil matter.

Assange is not bound by the US equivalent of the Official Secrets Act, and he cannot be guilty of treason against the USA because he is not a citizen of the USA nor has the necessary wider connection established on one of the last UK show trials, the treason conviction of "Lord Haw Haw".

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM

Well said 'Stroupe.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 11:37 PM

"Wikileaks is publishing stolen material. They are guilty of aiding the criminal who copied confidential information. For this they must be prosecuted in civil courts. The soldier who stole the material will be tried by court martial."

Did not the person who 'stole' the Pentagon Papers have the US Supreme Court back the right to have such information released to the Public Domain. Did he not serve any jail time? Was he not Pardoned? Did not any person who 'aided' him receive no penalty?


Those who refuse to learn from the lessons of History are condemned to make us all go thru them again, the stupid selfish bastards!


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 09:38 PM

Wikileaks is publishing stolen material. They are guilty of aiding the criminal who copied confidential information. For this they must be prosecuted in civil courts. The soldier who stole the material will be tried by court martial.

The Swedish rape or non-rape is between the Swedish courts and Assange; I have no interest in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 08:51 PM

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 08:38 PM

You gotta be kiddin'

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:57 PM

And please pardon all the grammatical errors, especially the shifting verb tenses.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 07:23 PM

Good point, Don. One of the things I value about the 'Cat is that people often offer thoughtful different perspectives.

Thanks for the additional links Lox.

That may be, Q. I'm often slow to make up my mind. But let him be locked up on the correct charges. I'm not quite ready to assume there is nothing to the rape charges, but he shouldn't be tried on rape charges in order to punish him for leaking the classified documents.

And yes....I know that is not the real world.

What is apparent to me is that societies are going to have to come to terms with all the implications of the modern internet. Assange may or may not deserve to be locked up for the leaks. However, locking him up will not stop such leaks.

Wikileaks did, in effect, vet and redact some information available to them before general release, giving the US government a heads-up and also giving the information in advance to several responsible news organizations. Given that such leaks will continue, even if Wikileaks in general, and Assange in particular were "shut down," so to speak, it would be much more balanced to also release secret diplomatic cables and correspondence from other governments, including, but certainly not limited to China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Russia, etc. That is less likely to happen simply because we do have a more open and transparent government than many of these countries, and therefore less control. Leaks such as have occurred could result in Western democracies becoming less democratic and more secretive - more controlling and repressive in the absence of similar release of classified information from some other countries such as I listed above. I think one should consider that.

Under current USA law, any government employee who is discovered to have passed information is likely to find themselves in prison for a long time. In less free countries, that person would find themselves much more likely to be shot or "disappeared," along with their families.

Unbridled freedom = chaos.

Absolute order = absolute repression.

I don't know where the fulcrum is, but I do know there is real danger to our freedoms in more-or-less stable democracies if such breaches of classified information continues to be confined to only the USA or other democracies.

On the other hand, given the realities of globalization, overpopulation and diminishing resources, democracy may become politically and sociologically obsolete as a strategy for the survival of "tribes", or even the species.

I envy all of you on either side of this issue who have such passionate certainty.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:20 PM

.





                   Rape accuser linked to CIA






.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 04:11 PM

Wikileaks is a news outlet.

This is press freeedom for the WWW age.


Check out this contradiction.


                        U.S. upholds its commitment to press freedom.



Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...



Erstwhile US Presidential candidate, the evangelical Mike Huckabee, has called for the death penalty for Bradley Manning, the US Private who fed the material to Wikileaks. He also wants Assange charged under US terrorism legislation which also carries the death penalty



In other words - The Press should be free, but we should be free to kill them if we don't like what they print!



An honest government has nothing to worry about from a good journalist.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 03:17 PM

Applying reductio..., all private correspondance is meat for exposure by thieves like Assange.
The man needs to be prosecuted and confined to prison for a long term.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM

"Sure, let's forget the rape charges. They must be bogus, right?

And after-all, it is only a couple of women making claims. Everyone knows how manipulative women are, right? No need to investigate further, yes?"

Janie,

1. It was investigated ... and dropped ... months ago.

2. He is not accused of rape as we know it, but of rape according to a swedish techniicality.

The women do not deny consenting to sex with him.

Assange has committed no violence against anyone.

As I understand it, What is being disputed is whether a condom, which allegedly split during sex with one of the women, did so by accident or by his design.

The current round of charges are the result of the two women being approached and encouraged to go ahead with pressing charges.

He may go to jail because his condom broke.

The woman in question didn't care until she was encouraged to press charges.

It all happened around the same time as the leaks.

His arrest is political through and through.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 10:53 AM

""I don't assume that means he is guilty of the sex charges, but I would think it would give any thinking person pause before they jumped to the conclusion there is no basis for those charges and they must be groundless and "merely"politically motivated.""

Conversely Janie, it might suggest that Britain and the USA might be much more pleased to have him locked away for fifteen years in Sweden, than to have any open trial either in the UK or the USA.

Who knows what might crawl out of that can of worms?

A nice little stitch up, then forgotten until after all the other protagonists are retired or dead.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM

I did not have sexual intercourse with those women

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: kendall
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 01:45 PM

A tired old joke that is loved by Neanderthals:
She didn't know she had been raped until his check bounced.
Or, if you give a prostitute a bad check is it rape or shoplifting?

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM

Of course we don't know the actual facts about Assagne's sexual interactions, but from what we can see it does look rather as if there was consensual sex and then later it was recategorised as if it had been non-consensual which does seem rather internally (no pun intended) contradictory.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:12 AM

Bogus sexual offence charges that don't stick are a common tactic for states to use in countering opposition. Malaysia has been doing it regularly for 40 years.

Some of the categories of nominators the Nobel site lists include people I know personally, and there must be many more known to Mudcat members. But the process is rather secretive, and doubtless only a few people in each of those categories get to play.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 05:20 AM

The Wikileaks sex files: How two one-night stands sparked a worldwide hunt for Julian Assange

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Julian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:11 PM

Thanks bobad. Tried to find some objective information regarding the reporter, Daniel Tencer, but a quick search didn't reveal much that would allow me to judge how well veted his writing might be.

Can you give me any help with that?

Not that veting is the be-all-and-end-all of on target factual reporting. Look at John Edwards and the National Enquirer! (and not implying anything about Mr. Tencer in saying that.)

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:57 PM

Report: Assange accuser flees to Middle East, may not be cooperating with police

By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, December 9th, 2010 -- 7:03 pm

Sweden withholding documentation on Assange probe: lawyer

One of the two Swedish women who have filed sex complaints against the founder of WikiLeaks has reportedly left Sweden and may no longer be cooperating with the criminal investigation.

According to a report at Australian news site Crikey.com, Anna Ardin has moved to the Palestinian territories to volunteer with a Christian group working to reconcile Arabs and Israelis.

Crikey.com reports:

    "One source from Ardin's old university of Uppsala reported rumors that she had stopped co-operating with the prosecution service several weeks ago, and that this was part of the reason for the long delay in proceeding with charges-and what still appears to be an absence of charges."

Ardin's blog shows that she has recently posted from the Palestinian territories. Her most recent blog posts make no mention of WikiLeaks or its founder, Julian Assange.

Some of Ardin's most recent Tweets suggest sympathy for WikiLeaks.

"MasterCard, Visa and PayPal -- belt them now!" Ardin urged in a Tweet Wednesday, evidently referring to the cyber-attacks launched on those institutions after they severed their relationships with WikiLeaks.

In a more recent Tweet, she complained of the media reports digging into her background.

"CIA agent, rabid feminist / Muslim lover, a Christian fundamentalist, flat & fatally in love with a man, can you even be all [these things all] the time?" she Tweeted in Swedish.

Some news reports have linked Ardin to the CIA, based on her contact with anti-Castro groups in Cuba. Ardin wrote her master's thesis on these groups, while located in Havana and Miami. But others have questioned the validity of the connection.

Crikey.com notes that Ardin, an avowed feminist, has taken criticism from many prominent feminists, who, perhaps surprisingly, appear to have sided against the female accuser and with the male accused.

"Rape is being used in the Assange prosecution in the same way that women's freedom was used to invade Afghanistan. Wake up!" Tweeted Naomi Klein.

Feminist activist Naomi Wolf penned an article sarcastically congratulating Interpol for its "commitment to engaging in global manhunts to arrest and prosecute men who behave like narcissistic jerks to women they are dating."

SWEDEN WITHHOLDING DOCUMENTATION ON ASSANGE PROBE

Assange's lawyer, renowned British advocate Mark Stephens, told CBS News Thursday that prosecutor Marianne Ny is staging a "show trial," in reference to the politically motivated prosecutions of the Stalin-era Soviet Union.

Stephens said not only have formal charges not been filed against Assange, but the prosecution has failed to provide him with any documentation relating to the investigation. As a result, he says it's impossible for him to begin crafting a defense.

Stephens also said he believed recent news reports that Sweden is holding talks with the United States on whether Assange can be extradited to face charges under US law.

It's unclear what US laws Assange could have broken with his release of US State Department cables, as he is not a US citizen and therefore not bound by US treason laws, and his activites with WikiLeaks were carried out outside the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:27 PM

I agree, Sins. But it is not "a" political agenda. It is at least two political agendas, plus whatever personal agendas are involved. There is absolutely insufficient information available at present to draw any conclusions whatsoever about the sexual assault allegations. I do find it interesting that Assange is fighting extradition to Sweden to be questioned about the charges. He would rather be in prison in England knowing that both Great Britain and the USA are chomping at the bit to find grounds to charge him regarding the leaks? I don't assume that means he is guilty of the sex charges, but I would think it would give any thinking person pause before they jumped to the conclusion there is no basis for those charges and they must be groundless and "merely"politically motivated.

On;y history will tell whether what Wikileaks is doing does more harm or more good, and to whom. I suspect the verdict will be mixed, and that there will also be real differences when the short-term results are weighed against long-term effects.

It is also the reality that these rape charges are separate, whether or not they are used for political purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:09 PM

Bobert:
"Think if the ladies in Sweden who Assange is supposed to have raped ain't at all "

Then it would be.....


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:54 PM

Janie,
Unfortunately, these two women are being used to achieve a political agenda. Frankly, I doubt that anyone involved gives a flying fuck about them or their rape claims.
Welcome to the "real" world.
And I am as disgusted as you.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:46 PM

Sure, let's forget the rape charges. They must be bogus, right?

And after-all, it is only a couple of women making claims. Everyone knows how manipulative women are, right? No need to investigate further, yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 PM

Think if the ladies in Sweden who Assange is supposed to have raped ain't at all convincing -- I mean, zero credibility -- then, hey, wouldn't bother me at all... But then again I think the most patriotic people are whistle blowers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:39 PM

Jack - From the link you provided:

The Nobel Committee sends out invitation letters to individuals qualified to nominate – members of national assemblies, governments, and international courts of law; university chancellors, professors of social science, history, philosophy, law and theology; leaders of peace research institutes and institutes of foreign affairs; previous Nobel Peace Prize Laureates; board members of organizations that have received the Nobel Peace Prize; present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; and former advisers of the Norwegian Nobel Institute.


Somehow, someway they managed to leave out any reference to the Mudcat. Go figure....

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:31 PM

Maybe they should take back Obama's and give it Assange.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:26 PM

"Chinese? parable of burning down huts to cook pigs"

An English writer - we read it in primary school ... sounds like Swift to me...

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:24 PM

Well, the Chinese have created their own Peace prize to honor the VP of Taiwan, so as to deflect attention for the real one.... so we can make up our own too!

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:23 PM

mercy... I would hope you were joking, but I'm afraid you are not.

'More transparency' is a fine idea... what Assange chooses to do to achieve it is beyond sanity...

(I am reminded of the Chinese? parable of burning down huts to cook pigs..)

Subject: RE: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:14 PM

Or perhaps Assange together with Bradley Manning, as suggested here:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/12/2010129102245193184.html

Subject: BS: Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:49 PM

Seems to me that the obvious candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize right now is Julian Assange.

Anybody got relevant contacts to get him nominated? This describes the process:

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/nomination/