BS: Car kit for snow

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM

This is why you need snow tires

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 12:15 PM

For Christmas, I wish that all of the drivers who "think they can" in snow and ice would just stay home. I've driven in heavy snow, ice, and extreme cold for better than 40 years now and I don't take chances (or shortcuts).

I've BEEN stranded in a car in snow and it ain't one bit funny. Fortunately, we had topped off the tank a few miles before we were stopped. Ever since we've carried "winter kits" in each car -- and a "space blanket" traps the moisture your body naturally gives off, so don't bundle up tightly in one or your clothes will become wet. You can pick up a military-surplus mostly-wool blanket for a few dollars (pounds, lira, whatever).

If I were to list the bare minimum it would be mobile phone, blanket of some sort, energy bars or something similar, a flashlight, a small shovel, toilet paper, matches, a metal cup, and something to read. Of course, everything varies from country to country and even from terrain to terrain. Planes flying the Alaska bush (including Alaska Airlines) are required to carry survival gear, which includes firearms and ammunition (for signaling and to hunt food if necessary).

I don't keep a gun in my car but then I don't go off into the wilds in the Winter, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 12:26 PM

When I first started driving back in 1950 I got stuck in a snow storm 10 miles from home. Three days and two nights later I made it. It's amazing how much smarter we are than we were at that age.
There are few places I'd rather be than home even in good weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: nutty
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM

Rather than carrying sand (as mentioned a few posts back) an 'expert' on the TV suggested carrying a bag of cat litter to use as grit under the wheels of your vehicle. Much lighter to carry and much, much cheaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 01:26 PM

Depends. You need weight over the rear wheels if you have a rear-wheel-drive vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:23 PM

I don't use cat litter--it isn't cheaper, and it is kaolin clay. Clay get slick when it gets wet, which isn't good for traction. Sand stays as gritty as ever. That expert didn't think it through.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:26 PM

This is why you need snow tires

Well we need snow "tyres" in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:34 PM

Sand is much cheaper in Africa. Of course, they get very little snow in Timbuctoo

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:46 PM

"They, however, were referring to a windshield in a submerged car"
Yes, that is what I referred to, and why I carry the item. You can easily slip into the water while driving on icy, snow infested, roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 03:10 PM

I am doing without a car for the forseeable future and I have to walk over a sometimes icy road that slips right into a little river..scares me...unknown amount of mud and sand and sometimes even quicksand here. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:05 PM

In a submerged car, no. I doubt the kick would work. I don't think I would wait until it was under water to try it.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:10 PM

I kinda doubt I can slide into the water between here and, say, Salt Lake City, given that this is high desert country. I could roll the car, true, but the odds are that it wouldn't be into water and not more than a foot deep, if that.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:14 PM

"In a submerged car, no. I doubt the kick would work. I don't think I would wait until it was under water to try it"


Why not just carry a small dollar store device that works...rather than taking a chance with your life,except for Raparee, of course :)

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:15 PM

It's what I've been saying: prepare for conditions you're likely to encounter. We carry about 3 days food, but we could get stuck for quite some time in a blizzard. This probably wouldn't be necessary in, say, suburban DC or downtown Edinburgh (Montreal, Toronto -- eh, I've been to both in the snow season and well, yeah, you might...). Likewise, if I were driving off-road in the high back country (In winter?? I'd have to be nuts!) I would carry more and even, possibly, a firearm.

A further hint: don't depend on GPS -- people have died out this way by depending on that. Use a good paper map and forget shortcuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: mg
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 10:47 PM

Oh dear. Shortcuts out here are deadly..people have maps that show roads going through but don't realize they are seasonal. Make sure the road is open..take the long way. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:16 PM

I watched the full Mythbusters show on this topic. Those who think you CAN do this, please send me your address now to send flowers.

Some things, joke about, I do not.

You have never tried to smash out, on dry land, a laminated windscreen - mostly now compulsory instead of the old 'toughened glass' types that would shatter with a stone on gravel roads. An 8 pound sledge hammer will bounce off, and there is a big chunk of plastic sandwiched between two layers of glass that will get in your way as you without air exhaust yourself trying to get out.

As for opening the side windows under water - if you have electric windows, forget it - water shorts out electrical devices...

As the Mythbusters found to their amazement before they did some simple back of the envelope calculations and found just how many tons of pressure are holding the door shut when the water was not even up to even the windows, write your will now.

The pressure on the windows when they were even partly submerged was sufficient to jam them immovable, burning out any winder motor, and made the hand winders useless.

The only possible way to exit the car was when fully submerged (provided that one window was not fully down when the car went into the water), was to wait till the trapped air fully equalized pressure with the car below the surface of the water before a door could be opened. They did it in a swimming pool with a scuba gear guy in the back seat and a spare breathing set for the driver in case things went wrong.

It was just possible before running out of breath (after a few practice runs), as long as you didn't panic and held your breath. Once the door was even partly open a crack, the trapped air bubble rose to the surface, and you still needed a lot of force to open the door enough to get out. A lot of people die like this each year around the world by being trapped.

Sufficient pressure to open a door could not be done even by bracing against the opposite door. Nothing would smash even toughened (forget the laminated stuff!) glass underwater, boots, torches, except the gadgets that impact a hardened steel point - there is a spring loaded one, and a manual hammer style.

I'm not making this up, folks...

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM

I can tell y`all this. If you`ve gone through the ice, and you happen to be getting on in years, chances are your heart will give out when you hit freezing water. The window will be the least of your problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 11:36 AM

Would simply carrying a claw hammer in the vehicle do the trick? Or a large wrench? Is the spring-loaded device actually better at breaking out the glass?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 11:45 AM

Hi, SRS.

The optimum device is the spring-loaded punch. Place it in a corner of the glass to be broken and it will break. Keep in mind that automobile glass that has shattered (broken into little bits) will still be there as a window. The glass can cut a person up really badly, so ensure you use a well-gloved hand to get the glass outta the way. And be careful not to get shards in your eyes. Good way to cut the eye up.

A claw hammer will work or actually any fairly pointy object. We did, on occasion--use car aerials to snap across the glass to clear the windshield in order to extricate people. Any fire department will let you know that stuff, volunteer or full-time. The usual call is `Breakintg Glass` and boomp.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Naemanson
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:39 PM

Many, many years ago I slid off the road into a snowbank. I was only a few hundred yards from the house of a family friend but when I got there the family was asleep and their new dog didn't recognize me. I hoped the dog's barking would wake them but no such luck. I went back to the car, dug out my blanket and slept the few hours until they woke up. They were a farm family so they were up early. A few minutes with the tractor and a hearty breakfast and I was on my way. They insisted the dog would not have hurt me but I didn't believe them.

The car, by the way, was a convertible. Coldest night of my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:04 PM

A claw hammer? Well, having swung a sledge hammer and watched it bounce off a laminated screen, I was surprised. Of course a few blows later, it started to crack.

Mythbusters reported that a sharp point worked faster and more reliably. It's not the force as such, but being able to start the cracks, which is where that sharp point helps. If you use a claw hammer, don't use the normal place where you would strike a nail, but try to hit with the square edge of the side of the top, which will focus more force on a smaller area. And since side windows (if not bullet proof glass!) are toughened glass, which will be easier to start the crazing pattern The you still need to smash and clear it out - the edges are generally less sharp that 'plate glass' which is no longer allowed in cars, but you can still gash yourself.

If you CAN open the door at all, its preferable and faster than having to smash thru a window.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:40 AM

"Mythbusters" just ran a show tonight about being trapped in an upside-down car underwater. Positively frightening.

Subject: RE: BS: Car kit for snow
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:04 AM

... so do tell us about kicking the windows out... :-)