BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train

Subject: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:21 PM

33 Billion! Unbelievable, just to save 30 minutes on the journey.

People are in absolute poverty and this project is allowed to go ahead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12035524

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 05:31 PM

Ya can't stop "progress".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Of course, that is a cursory glance. There may be other factors, but... ???

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 06:25 PM

How many jobs will the project create?

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 07:22 PM

In the long term it will make access to Europe from anywhere other than London and teh Home Counties easier.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 01:28 AM

How much countryside will be ruined?
How many houses will be knocked down?

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 02:22 AM

A lot less than the advancing Glaciers....

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:33 AM

Saving 30 minutes is incidental to the real reason for building this line.

There is a desperate need for more trains, as the existing West Coast Line is approaching full capacity while demand is still rising.

A new line is essential, and if that is so it makes sound common sense to make it a high speed system.

I should have thought that all you who profess to care about the environment would be in favour of a project which will, at a stroke, cut down the requirement for domestic air travel and supply a sensible alternative to travel by car.

The saving in carbon emission is incalculable, though I'll bet there will be many guesses, wildly varying according to whether they come from ecologists, airline bosses, or motorheads.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 05:53 AM

"How much countryside will be ruined?
How many houses will be knocked down?"

Probably far less than if they decided to widen the M40, M6 and M1. And you don't get many lorries thundering down a rail line, or young female reps in Beemers driving like maniacs whilst chatting to their mates on their mobiles.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 06:41 AM

Good points and in fairness only 10 billion more than the net borrowing for November.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:28 AM

I believe the most stupid thing this country's ever done with regard to transport was to rip up the rail network. That's not a political point, BTW, even though it was the Tories wot done it ITFP - successive governments of both stamps have failed to recognise that act of criminally insane vandalism and do something about it - instead they've spent zillions on building more and more, and bigger and bigger, roads which, along with the reduction of the railway's network and capacity, has encouraged a hugely exponential growth in road-traffic.

So we have what we have - a crumbling, completely inadequate road network chock-full of juggernauts and 3/4-empty cars, and a rail network so reduced that it can barely cope with a comparatively small (when compared with the rest of Europe, for instance) number of users.

Time for a re-think, methinks. Maybe the new line is a pointer to a brighter future. Hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 08:43 AM

I actually think that it would be brilliant if every main city in England Scotland and Wales had a fast train to all the other cities.

For example, it would be great if Lincoln had a fast train to Birmingham, Nottingham, London, Manchester, Edinburgh, Sheffield with trains running up to midnight both ways.

It would be so nice to book a show and then go by train and be sure of getting back same day.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Micca
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM

From the look of todays travel news I think many would settle for the good old slow usual service (were it available and on time) Given that the High speed links to Paris and Brussels cant cope with the demand and are taking NO further bookings until Christmas Eve!!! and the queues are at LEAST 3+ hours long to get on a train if you have booked!!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 01:23 PM

Unbelievable, just to save 30 minutes on the journey.
That is a bit like saying that phase one of the M1 was only built for people to drive from the village of Elstree to the village of Crick.

As already stated additional rail capacity is needed, most urgently between London and Birmingham but extending further north in later phases.

Of course there are strong arguements both for and against HS2 as the solution to this problem. Personally, while I think we need a new rail line from London towards the Midlands I don't think that a dedicated line for premium rate services is the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 02:46 PM

Having always been a railway supporter, I am pretty much in favour of new or extended quality rail lines being built. What I find a shame is that we in Scotland have very poor rail links. Anything North of Inverness is practically single track and subject to two trains a day in any direction. Taking over four hours to get from Invernes to Thurso and onto Wick. The dismal service between Aberdeen and Inverness, subject to cancellation at the slightest snowfall (They got rid of the snow ploughs just the other year) uses mickey mouse toy trains. The Kyle line and that to Mallaig which are great for steam in the summer are popular and could be used for increased freight to save using lorries over the slow roads. We could do with investment up here first !! (IMHO)

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 07:45 PM

Same in Lincolnshire Eric

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM

Is this figure the cost of the project or the price of a return ticket?

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM

LOL by the time they finish it, it could be the cost of a ticket :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM

If you book a day return for a Saturday, 12 weeks ahead of the journey, it can be very cheap. I did Newark to London Kings Cross return for £18-odd (£9 and a few coppers each way) on a Saturday last April (London Marathon weekend). Reserved seat, one hour twenty minutes each way. Great value.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 11:16 AM

Plus the cost of a tour of Westminster Abbey, and the afternoon in the National Gallery, which is free - made a cheap and excellent day out.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 11:39 AM

Not bad BWM

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM

When we've built this line, and a couple of others, and a few more motorways, and ten or twenty new towns, and 5000 out-of-town shopping centres, and extended London as far north as Cambridge, as far south as Brighton, as far east as Southend and as far west as Bristol, and Birmingham, Manchester Sheffield and Leeds/Bradford form one huge mega-city let's go the whole hog and concrete over any little scraps in between. That should then form a good base for more building - which, in turn ...

By the way, what happens when a high speed train hits something?

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 04:16 PM

Everybody dies!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 04:19 PM

Mythbusters did a show in which a slow moving diesel loco hit a passenger car....

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 05:30 AM

Very negative views, you must have progress - but let's fill our grit boxes first, says he nursing aches and pains after falling over on the glacier now formed on our road!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 01:33 PM

No, 'Bonzo3legs' I don't have a very negative view of progress - it's just that I don't believe that covering enormous acreages with concrete and infra-structure is in any way 'progressive'. The idea that the environment is infinite in extent and can be exploited indefinitely at an ever increasing rate is monumentally stupid and short-sighted. If we keep on using up the planet in this way there will be no future for our immediate descendants.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 06:36 PM

You can understand people rushing to get out of London.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 10:52 AM

Let's all join Shimrod and ban all progress and all future technology, then we can all spend our whole lives grubbing a quarter of an acre of turnip patch, and never see anything more than twenty miles from our birthplace.

We can dine on neaps, spuds and cabbage, fight the neighbours for firewood in the local woods, and drink either water or home brew.

Or we could find the positives of the situation and sort out a sensible way forward, leaving the whingers to mutter to themselves in the corner.

I know which I'd prefer.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 12:40 PM

Well said Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM

All very well if you can afford it Don!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 01:55 PM

yes wot was wrong with bloke carrying letters in a cleft stick and riding a donkey down cart tracks? It still works in Market Rasen.

Did it again last night. Premature congratulations for the new year!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:03 PM

So, what you're saying, Don, is that there are no limits and we can go on concreting over the environment (which, as we all know, is completely irrelevant in terms of human ambitions) forever? Phew! That's a relief - I hate turnips anyway!

The future's bright - the future's concrete!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:17 AM

"yes wot was wrong with bloke carrying letters in a cleft stick and riding a donkey down cart tracks? It still works in Market Rasen."

You may jest Al, but it's true!

Subject: RE: BS: 33bn London-to-B'ham high speed train
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Jan 11 - 06:32 AM

Completion is still a long way off, but I am already wondering

(1) How expensive it will be to travel on the line, i.e. targeted towards bankers, executives MPs etc with generous expense accounts as opposed to commuters.

(2) How it will impact on capacity of London terminals, whether the number of rail journeys on the cheaper alternatives will have to be cut.