BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle

Subject: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arnie
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 07:41 AM

My blue clickie attempts never work for some reason, but in essence the story is that Skysports football commentator Andy Gray and producer Richard Keys were recorded off-air slagging off Sian Massey a female referee's assistant who was running the line at the weekend Wolves v Liverpool match. Andy Gray thought that as a woman she wouldn't understand the offside rule and would commit a howler. As it happened, video evidence shows that she got it exactly right when the commentators thought there had been an offside that she declined to flag. The fallout is still rumbling on, with both men suspended and possibly the end of Andy Gray's commentating career with Sky. I'm disappointed as I've always liked Andy's commentaries and he certainly has a wealth of footballing knowledge and expererience. However, he has been shown up for what he is - a dinosaur who will not accept any role for women officials in men's football. Sian Massey is obviously sufficiently qualified to officiate in a premier league match so why not? This is not the thin end of the wedge leading to women playing football alongside men - they have their own leagues for that. Andy is certainly going to pay a high price for this - does he deserve it?

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 08:44 AM

Another way to put the question is this. If Gray lacks the capacity for the most basic logical thought, should he be entrusted with a conspicuous and influential job?

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 09:15 AM

"Andy Gray thought that as a woman she wouldn't understand the offside rule and would commit a howler."

There's plenty of evidence, every week on Sky Sports, that Andy Gray doesn't understand the offside rule either. Or, for that matter, many more of the rules of Association Football.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Stu
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 09:32 AM

I never trusted him after he left the Villa for Wolves.

Massey made a blinding decision with that offside, and Keys and Gray are simply showing themselves as the amoebic old gits they must be.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 10:02 AM

Villa to Wolves - he was probably blinded by all the glamour of travelling through Perry Barr.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 10:37 AM

Back in the 70's I once stood next to him looking in the window of Freeman Hardy & Willis in Brum City Centre. That was back when he was playing for Villa (and he was young, slim and had hair, lots of it!). He had a very nice Old English Sheepdog with him. I said "Hello Andy, nice dog". He just looked at me like something unpleasant he'd picked up on the sole of his shoe! :-)

Can't win 'em all.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 11:05 AM

He was what they used to call an old fashioned centre forward. Basically he was built like a brick shit house and even gangs of wandering thugs, disguised as football teams couldn't knock him down.

Not having met him, I rather liked him. All your fancy players, Trevor francis for example, seemed to spend half the match being knocked down like skittles.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 11:07 AM

LOL Al!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 12:10 PM

I am going to sack you Al, for making bad comments about Perry Barr! Just not acceptable. :-)

He only did that to you BWM, becuase he knew you were not a Villa supporter. I think I would have done the same LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 12:11 PM

Well he got the sack!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Stu
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 12:20 PM

I used to walk home from school past Ken McNaught's house (on a big estate) and he had two Old English Sheepdogs. Must have been a Villa player thing. As Villa fans we always shouted hello and he always said hello - a nice chap.

I must have seen him play as I went to the Villa with my dad a few times each season even when I was a little kid (Trinity Road stand towards the Holte End - we were on a programme cover once), although I can't remember him particularly; most of the players I remember seeing were late 70s/early 80s when I was at comprehensive school.

Shame to see Massey won't be liner at the Crewe game. Meanwhile, Andy Gray has been sacked from Sky for further comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Stu
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 12:25 PM

Cross-post with Arthur itus.

BWM - me and my wife were standing sorting out change at the pay machines at the foot of The Ramada in Manchester one Sunday lunchtime when i noticed the chap doing the same stood next to us was Alan Hanson. At the time Villa were still to get O'Neill as manager and rumours were rife about who was getting the job, I thought, this guy will have a clue being a high and might pundit. So I asked him if he had any idea who was up for the Villa job and he looked at me the way Andy Gray looked at you and mumbled "I havenae gotta clue" and strode off. Miserable bugger I thought, but then he probably gets it all the time (although I do contribute to his wages).

He's taller than he looks on the telly.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 02:07 PM

I have refreshed a thread I OP'd nearly a year ago on possibly abolishing the offside rule, as this present controversy seems to me to revive this whole question.

Tho I do not believe in assassination generally, I think there have been people in history {Hitler, say} without whom the world would have been a better place. I think it would be a better place without the offside rule too!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 03:51 AM

Yeah, but...

Prejudice can start from experience you know... She got one spot on as the original post agrees, but...

I have seen two women running the line at Hillsborough over the last few years, her included. Both always 10 yards behind the last man, never keeping up with play.

Yes, the reality is two assistant referees who I remember being bad. There were lots more. I remember them why? Well, being a woman was a novelty and I for one had high hopes for them breaking into a male dominated system.

The result? if I see a woman running the line, I am more prone to see if she can keep up. Sorry, but at least give me full marks for being honest. Whilst few ever give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt when they are level with the last man, (although the rules say they should,) two types of assistant referees never keep up. Women and blokes who dodge salads.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 03:58 AM

Stmg Willie ~~ I frequently note that asst refs are failing to keep level with the play ~~ mostly male ones, probably for the simple reason that that is what most of them are. Watch carefully next time, with a view to noting how often neither linesesman is in a position to judge an offside accurately. I think you might be quite surprised.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 05:09 AM

I like this comment from somebody who posted on one of the national rags.


FOR SALE One massive f****** iPad, like new, barely used. Contact: [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arnie
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 05:33 AM

Until I heard it today, I hadn't realised that Andy Gray was earning £1.7 million a year at Skysports! Jeez, no wonder my subscription is so high and no wonder he's a bit pissed off at losing his job!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 06:40 AM

So the hairy wristed Richard Keys is sacked, never thought he was much good way back in the early days of morning tv anyhow so it is no great loss.

But enough now I don't want to hear or see another thing about either of them. I notice one of the tabloids is digging around for more stories about Andy Gray, if they had kept their mouths shut no-one would have been the least bit interested in him or his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:14 AM

I don't follow football at all, and I can't understand why anyone would! That said, maybe women aren't really suitable for the job of line person. In athletic competition, women are over a second slower that men over a 100m. Translate that to football, and women, generally, will have more trouble keeping up with the game than men.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:20 AM

Ah well Michael, I note in another thread you have a crusade to abolish the offside rule...

I see where you are coming from, but don't agree with you on this occasion. if we didn't have the offside rule, Gary Lineker's legacy of "how to goal hang" would apply to all players. All it takes is enforcing the bit about giving the attacking player the benefit of the doubt in a "level" situation.

Andy Gray and those who succeed him wouldn't have anything to talk about either if we didn't have decisions affecting the outcome. Accepting the ref's decisions? Football isn't just a sport, it is also part of what the media use as a more general entertainment and they at least realise that as well as sport lovers, there are those, usually who read tabloids, who enjoy being outraged. it's their game too I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 05:28 AM

Don't follow soccer. My impressions of footballers mainly come from their off-pitch antics.
When I half heard the first mention on the news, I thought the presenters behaviour was out of line. When I later discovered that one of the culprits was Andy Grey, it did not surprise me. The sort of prejudice it demonstrates fitted in perfectly with my vague recollections of the sort of person he appeared to be back during his playing career.
We are well shot of him. It is just an example of ingrained prejudice which should be stamped out. A few years back derogatory comments about a player's colour would have been accepted. Thankfully nowadays they are seen as unacceptable. Is the response from bigots that they should think long and hard about their unjustifiable beliefs? No! They just move along to the next target down their list of prejudices and insult someone different.
As for the offside rule, it has always bemused me that footballers think that there is anything difficult to understand about it. It was the only thing about soccer that I ever actually understood. Comments about "women not understanding the offside rule" say more about the lack of intelligence of the person making the comment than they do about the capabilities of women.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: MikeL2
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM

hi

My take is that if a woman is good enough for the post then there should be no problems with having them as officials in major football.

While I am here a couple of things...
1 According to our paper and the TV, Keys was not sacked - he resigned - same difference.

I agree with Michael about male "linespersons" often being behind the actual play. It seems very normal for one or the other ( or both ) to lag behind.

As about the only real decision that they have to make that the referee can't always see, you would think that they would find a away to keep up - and that the referee's authorities would find ways of transmitting this to their committees.

I don't think that by removing the offside rule would benefit football to any extent, but I do agree that to a spectator it would appear that not many referees or linerunners really understand the rule.

I go to most games at Old Trafford and every week I see many decisions especially for offside ruled incorrectly.

I was at Blackpool on Tuesday and even as a Man U supporter I could only gasp at the referee's decision not to award a penalty to Blackpool. In the recent Man U v Liverpool game there were four penalties refused that looked stone dead. 1 to Liverpool and 3 to United.

Give the media something to write about !!!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Arthur_itus
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:47 AM

Well getting rid of the offside rule would be great for the Villa.

I could imagine Bent, Agbonlahor & Young licking their lips at the thought :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 07:34 AM

You can't generalise about every woman just as it can't be assumed that every man understands about football or even likes it. I know a few who have no interest in it whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 01:43 PM

My take is that if a woman is good enough for the post then there should be no problems with having them as officials in major football.'

I had a lady postman for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Arthur_itus
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 03:11 PM

"I had a lady postman for many years. "

Too much information!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 04:01 PM

Walking up and down the street delivering the post is a thousand miles away from running along the touch line and trying to keep up with a forward travelling almost as fast as Usain Bolt!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 08:40 PM

Sexist remarks have probably been around as long as Adam and Eve: the way to counter them is to give as good as you get. Political correctness is kiling the art of repartee!

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 07:42 AM

'Sexist remarks have probably been around as long as Adam and Eve'

Come an look at my snake. Its a talking snake. Draw close and tell it to stand up......

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: Arnie
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 10:51 AM

Unfortunately for Sian Massey, the poor lineswoman at the centre of this row, she's been dropped from another game this weekend. The FA excuse is that it would not be fair on the two teams playing (non-league match I think) as she would be the centre of attention and thus distract from the football. I trust she will be back in action next week once all this has died down - after all she's done nothing wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Andy Gray & Richard Keys debacle
From: GUEST,Arthur_itus
Date: 29 Jan 11 - 12:07 PM

I have to laugh.

Been in 2 different Supermarkets in the last couple of days. Having put all the shopping through the till, each of the ladies then said "Would you like some help with packing"
Just couldn't resist it.
I made the same comment to both of them "Are you being sexist, just becuase I am a bloke" A quick astonished look from the ladies LOL.
Then I quickly added "If you are, I will get Andy Gray on you"
They burst out laughing and we had a few minutes of banter about sexism.
Bottom line was that we all thought that the world had lost our sense of humour.