BS: Broadcasting standards RANT

Subject: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 09:35 AM

Where else can I rant but Mudcat.
I just fell across a prog on ITV called "May the Best House Win". I have no idea what it's about but I won't be able to watch it for long. The camera work and editing is atrocious, whip pans, clumsy reframing, subject looking out of frame, cutting to and from pans and zooms. Endless classic errors of picture composition. It is common in cookery programmes to suffer random zooms and soft focus shots and, of course, looking at anything rather that what is being demonstrated.I would have thought that with all the "Media Studies" graduates these days there might be a move to higher standards not a concerted effort to incorporate all the bad points of the art of cinematography.
I just popped back to see if my first impressions were fair and realised the whole programme is based on knocking someone elses outmoded taste. Hmm, perhaps they just don't like making television programmes properly either.
There I feel better now!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 12:28 PM

Can I have a rant please? You know Gardeners' World? Well, the cameraman is obsessed with close-ups. When they show you a garden, he goes zooming into a flower until it's enlarged almost like an electron microscope slide. You see every hair, every dot on the petals. But the overall picture of the garden? Never! He's the same one that covers Chelsea Flower Show I reckon. You just don't ever get a wide ranging view of anything, just these massive close-ups of one daft rose. Did someone give him a gigantic zoom lens for Christmas one year or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 12:49 PM

It's the ones who film dancers without showing their feet who annoy me.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 12:55 PM

As a point of information, many Media Studies courses don't teach practical/technical skills (although some do); they focus more on the history, social impact and analysis of the mass media. Just like most English degrees analyse literature, but don't teach 'creative writing'.

None of which diminishes the fact that these TV shows sound rancid!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 12:58 PM

Hey, could be a lot worse. Could be Fox "News"[sic]

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 01:11 PM

I still think Fox News is a clever parody.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 01:11 PM

I work in a Public Affairs office with young folks who have degrees in mass communications. They can't write for toffee -- no notion of grammar, syntax, even spelling. But they have a great grasp of communications theory and are dab hands at "messaging"!

Good thing they have me to write their blessed backgrounders, caption their photos, and edit their news releases.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 03:39 PM

Tonight on BBC 4 they had a lovely performance of Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto, the 'Emperor', (soloist Paul Lewis). The ignorant continuity lady announced "And now Beethoven's fifth!" If she doesn't know the difference between a piano concerto and a symphony, why oh why is she on BBC 4?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM

I don't really do all this pretty picture bolleaux, but I am very fed up with law students who do not appreciate that words are a lawyers weapons and need to be correctly selected, honed and wielded.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 05:35 AM

I remember a BBC announcer years ago introducing a discussion on the merits of 'capital punishment' in schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 06:53 AM

Oh topsie you did make me laugh! I have to say, once or twice I could have been in favour of this for some of my more recalcitrant pupils!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Neil D
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM

Just 5 minutes ago I heard a news achor mention the Iranian Revolution in 1989 causing me to yell "1979 you moron" at my TV.
My pet peeve is TV commercials that come on 5 times louder than the program, a real issue when I'm watching at night after my wife is already in bed in the next room. And it is not a technical glitch it is done intentionally to counteract people makin a quick trip to the kitchen or bathroom during commercial breaks. I now boycott any product that employs this practice.
"It's the ones who film dancers without showing their feet who annoy me."
Fred Astaire had it written into his contract that he could only be filmed with a full body shot during dance scenes.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 09:25 AM

And concentrating on musicians faces instead of how they're using their instrument. I don't care what they look like - I want to see what they're doing with their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

""I still think Fox News is a clever parody.""

Fox News clever?

Beep beep beep.....Oxymoron alert!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 09:48 AM

""My pet peeve is TV commercials that come on 5 times louder than the program,""

Same peeve, and identical response.

If "We buy Any Car" were the worlds last dealer I'd run the car off Beachy Head rather than deal with them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 12:02 PM

My pet rant is against those programmes (normally consumer/pet style shows) That waste so much of the time telling us "what is coming up in a minutes time. or re-capping what we have already seen, and will be updating the story shortly....in a minutes time!" My attention span is slightly longer than a goldfish thank you...
(In a minutes time I'll come back and re-cap what I've just written If thats OK with you!)
Aaaaaargh!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 12:10 PM

And they say these daft things right over the top of the lovely closing music that you're enjoying, and squeeze the credits into a tiny little box, so you can't see who played what. And am I just imagining it, or are there now adverts every seven minutes or so? I spend more time pressing the 'mute' button than anything else. It's like chalk on a blackboard to me, all these ghastly ads. I agree that "We buy any blasted car..." is enough to make you want to throttle them. And am I alone in squirming at the Santander ads? What is all that sinister giant red Lego about? (I'm in the mood for a good rant, sorry!)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 12:41 PM

The Lloyds TSB ads worry me - all those little wooden people with long noses - what is that saying, do you think?

Another thing that has been annoying me lately is background noise. For example, if you listen to the World Service there is a thumping, pounding headache of a noise masking the news headlines. The only good part is the utter relief when it stops.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM

Oooooh This is fun!
Coming up shortly........!
And what is the BBC One show all about? Hard hitting items about desperate one parent families and the really bad times they are enduring, segued into a jolly piece about skateboarding dogs?
And they always have a special guest who hardly gets a word in, and just sits there looking puzzled! Grrrr!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 01:40 PM

One of the first things taught in photography seminars is never pan rapidly across the scene. It makes the viewer close his eyes until the pan is over. The mistake is common in news programs.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 02:51 PM

Lloyds TSB ads are definitely weird, topsie. That strange family sailing through the sky...! And, Q, I still find the weather forecast gives me vertigo, (from which I suffer from time to time anyway) as it pans rapidly up and down the country. Why can't the map stay still and show all of the UK at once? Are we too dim to encompass the lot in one go? The One Show is so dumbed down, I can't imagine who would seriously watch it. It all begs the question, just WHO designs these programmes, and why do they suppose ANYONE would be thrilled with them? They're very out of touch, in my opinion, with the tastes of ordinary folk who require mature, informative and entertaining fare.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 07:07 PM

This started as a personal rant, glad to see I am not alone!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 08:01 PM

For the last year or so, More4 (UK Freeview channel) has been running one of the best imports from the USA, "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart. We used to get the "Global Edition" plus four nightly editions (run the day after their American airing). Since the last holiday break, the programme has returned with only the "Global Edition" once a week - no explanation or apology. Where's the sense in that?

Another brilliant import "Malcolm in the Middle" was introduced by the BBC, but very badly served by erratic timing, and is now being picked up by the commercial channels - as happened with "24", as happened with "Lost". It's the same with their own productions - regularity of presentation seems to mean nothing to schedulers, programs get abandoned if earlier programs over-run, or occasionally get moved to later and later slots, with little or no information forthcoming about the changes (not that information could help your PVR to find the missing show!)

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Dáithí
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 05:28 AM

Anyone noticed the current trend for continuity announcers on TV to say "And coming next XYZ...but before that..here's Coronation St" (or whatever...
Do they not know what "next" means!!?

D

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 06:02 AM

Like strad, I can find not seeing a musicians hands annoying. Sometimes it seems to work along these sort of lines: you get full shot of a guitar player strumming some chords. He goes into some solo bit where it might be useful to see the hands in a bit more detail so they zoom to give a close up of the player's sweating forehead...

---
I've noticed the advert sound problem with some films. I watched one the other night where short of constantly changing the volume, the choice was struggle to hear the dialogue avoid the music being too loud or put up with the loud music to hear the dialogue clearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 06:07 AM

I'm frequently incensed by the constant trailing and replaying either side of adverts!
It's merely a device to make 10 minutes of television fit into a 30 minute slot.

"Previously in part 1......blah, blah!!"
"Coming up after the break...blah, blah,!!"
There's less actually happening between the ads that you hadn't already seen than in the length of the ad breaks!!!!!

Reminds me of the mantra about getting your message across....

" First, tell them what you're going to tell them, then tell them it. Then tell them what it was you just told them!"

Do they really think we're THAT stupid????

GRRRrrr absolutely boils my p***



"....and breathe"

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 06:48 AM

Since getting Freeview about 2-3 years ago, we now have more choice than before - and I watch less TV than ever before as the choice of programming has plummeted.

I agree with all the sentiments above and will add one more - on the subject of documentaries. The worst sort of documentary, mainly but not exclusively on commercial channels, (a) has a recap of the main theme after every advertising break (b) uses the same shots over and over again to fill up viewing time. So, an hour of documentary time is, in reality, around 35 minutes of factual time. Bulked-up time filling.

More is less - and it's always been that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 07:24 AM

Oh yes - using the same shots over and over and over again. It really leaves you feeling short-changed.

A problem I've found sometimes with Radio 4 is that they announce the next programme and then launch into a trailer. If I don't realise it's a trailer, I assume it's the next programme, and quite often decide it isn't interesting and turn it off, only to discover later that I missed something that I would have enjoyed listening to.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 07:44 AM

Do you suppose that younger people nowadays have a very short concentration span, and thus need reminding every five minutes of the programme so far? Perhaps they can't hold in their heads 30 mins of plot etc. Also, they seem to be harder of hearing, maybe that's why the ads are so loud. I found recently at the cinema that the noise was unbelievably loud, my friend and I had our fingers in our ears for much of it! Also (rant rant rant) that silly ominous music for nearly all of a documentary, as if the devil himself were about to make an appearance. (In fact, that would be a light relief!) I'm now sounding like one of those Grumpy Old Women on TV. (I absolutely adore them actually!)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:15 AM

Definately seems to be TV for the hard of thinking!
BAH! GRUMP!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:25 AM

I once had an ongoing correspondence with the Advertising Standards Agency on the subject of ivreased sound level for commercial breaks. Having Quoted the standard guidance for relative levels they as good as denied that it happened!! I was asked to provide dates times programme details and advert content before they would look in to specific complaints. I think my reply said volumes at high level as I recall!
I recently bought a cheap telly which includes an auto volume reduction switch, specifically for reducing the volume increase during commercial breaks. So the manufactureers and all of us Know it happens, but not those who pretend to have some control of such things.
Another rant over!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:26 AM

A lot of television programmes seem to have been made with the sole aim of selling them to as many commercial stations as possible, so they have a potential 'commercial break' built in every few minutes (with a summary of the show so far, then the 'logo/theme tune', then an introduction to welcome the viewers back). This happens even when they are shown on BBC channels that don't have commercials to put in the 'breaks'.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:37 AM

Miskin Man, I once heard that the adverts are transmitted from local transmitters, and therefore are received more easily (and more loudly). I don't actually believe this for a minute, but that's what they said. I'm so glad of the mute button on the remote! It's off and on ceaselessly during the evening.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

I've heard this issue of raised volume levels during commercial breaks before and remember a firm denial being broadcast, despite the clear evidence to the contrary!!
It was some years ago now but I was incensed then and I'm still bloody annoyed now!!!!

I'm loving this thread.

So much off my chest.................Aaaaaahhhh

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:54 AM

As far as I understand it, they don't actually raise the volume. The peak volume remains the same but through the use of compression, you get more of the sound at a higher level.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:55 AM

back in the '70s, I used to be glued to Top of the Pops.

However, I always laughed when, during a guitar solo, middle 8, whatever, the camera always zoomed in on the bass player.

Volume levels in adverts? Bought a rather clever AV surround sound system (Onkyo) last year. it equalises out the volume after a while. (It samples so to ensure it doesn't turn up quiet moments in programmes, or, God forbid, music. the net effect being, and is sold on the idea of, bringing adverts down to the same level as the programmes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

As far as I understand it, they don't actually raise the volume. The peak volume remains the same but through the use of compression, you get more of the sound at a higher level.

So it's just "more sound" rather than higher volume??   

erm.... I think that's got to be the best anwer yet!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:00 AM

...in fact I'm going to build a guitar amp with an extra knob for "more sound" so I don't have to turn the volume up!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:09 AM

From the Wiki page I gave:

Most television commercials are compressed heavily (typically to a dynamic range of no more than 3dB) in order to achieve near-maximum perceived loudness while staying within permissible limits. This is the explanation for the problem that TV viewers and listeners have noticed for years.[11][12] While commercials receive heavy compression for the same reason that radio broadcasters have traditionally used it (to achieve a "loud" audio image), TV program material, particularly old movies with soft dialogue, is comparatively uncompressed by TV stations. This results in commercials much louder than the television programs, since users turn up the volume to hear soft program audio. This problem is a difficult one to solve because much TV program audio contains very little audio energy to be electronically "expanded" with a compressor in an attempt to even out the volume. Even across the cable TV dial with myriad audio program volume sources, there is a wide disparity of audio volume levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:20 AM

Ok,Ok, Jon.

I'm sure the science is correct.

Best laugh I've had in a while though!!

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:38 AM

Yes, I can see that it does sound a bit odd. btw, I think the science comes down to our perception of loudness, ie. we are less sensitive to short peaks. Again from Wikipedia:

The perception of loudness is related to both the sound pressure level and duration of a sound. The human auditory system integrates (averages) the effects of sound pressure level (SPL) over a 600–1,000 ms window. For example, a sound of constant SPL will be perceived to increase in loudness as 20, 50, 100, 200 ms samples are played, up to a maximum of approximately 1 second at which point the perception of loudness will stabilize.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

Jon is right about advert "volume". Trust me, I used to act for several local TV stations and I know how the complaints about this very feature were then dealt with. It is compression that does it.

Another pet peeve of mine is the care that they use when filming guitarists to AVOID giving you a recognisable shot of the headstock, so I spend half the programme going "Is it a - oh, no, wait, I'm sure I saw an M in the name - but the script gives the impression of... might it be...a ..."

And another is the trivial amount of research done for and knowledge displayed in "documentaries" in most cases.

Not to mention the grammar (or absence thereof) and glottal stops.

Oh, and films of car chases - world going past outside the window like a mad thing - cut to the speedometer showing merely 80 or 90 mph...

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: saulgoldie
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM

CBS seems to think that sporting events--curling, anyone?--are more important than the most durable news show with consistently high ratings among a rock solid loyal audience with high disposable income who spend it. No wonder I get more and more of my information from non-network sources.

And Fox should try to work a backroom deal with Stewart/Colbert to discover how better to self-parody. Once Fox acknowledges that it is not actually about news, its self-esteem will climb, and its anger level will necessarily fall.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: saulgoldie
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 10:22 AM

Oh, that would be "60 Minutes."

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 11:12 AM

Let's try and be positive, there ARE some programmes which are simply excellent, and 'In The Night Garden' is one. I'm addicted to it, even though there are no children in my house. It creases me when Derek Jacobi (of all people!) warbles "Yes, my name is Iggle Piggle..." Am I alone in this lunacy, or is anyone else hooked? But to get back to moaning and ranting, why do they inevitably have a presenter actually on the spot, in the cold, snow, rain etc telling us about an event? I worry about the poor soul's health, standing there catching 'flu. The information could just as easily be conveyed from the snug warmth of a studio.

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 11:53 AM

The question, Eliza, is if Upsy-Daisy is having it off with Iggle Piggle, MackaPacka - or even both. Don't even ask about the Tombliboos...

Grandpappy Will

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

And, Will Fly, shouldn't someone have a word with messieurs Pontypine and Wottinger about..er.. contraception?

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 01:45 PM

I hate the Pontypines and Wottingers - for no reason - just feel like stampin' on the little buggers. Give me a Hah-Hoo any day!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 01:50 PM

And why do all these on the spot reporters and commentators appear to be forbidden to wear hats whatever the weather? Brrrr!

Subject: RE: BS: Broadcasting standards RANT
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

Grandpappy Will, you obviously watch it as much as I do! I too hate the Pontypines.They seem to have terrible problems with wind. The Missus is so darned nosey, she wears binoculars round her neck at all times. And what do they do down the Teeny Tiny Hole? Very suspicious. (Sorry about the drift, you can see I'm totally obsessed)