Subject: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,oaktree Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:18 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12640636 "Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday in England and Wales for alternative dates have been outlined by ministers. Under the proposals, the holiday would be moved to St George's Day in April in England and St David's Day in March in Wales, or a Trafalgar Day in October." ARGH! P.S. Can we discuss the possible effects on folk customs and festivals and what to do to prevent or counteract that, i.e. a music thread not a BS thread, please? Ta. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,PeterC Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:22 AM May Day isn't a bank holiday at the moment unless it happens to fall on the first Monday of the month. People still dance out on the proper May Day and I don't think that will change. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,oaktree Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:47 AM I agree that people who, for example, dance at dawn on 1st May probably won't change their habits but I think having a recovery day nearby helps encourage participation (and especially audience turn-out), as does most people having 2-3 non-work days (i.e. Saturday, Sunday, and Bank Holiday Monday) every 7 or so years (give or take a leap year here and there). |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:55 AM ...........hmmm, so only 3 days for Upton on 7? Bu**er! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,oaktree Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:29 AM On the other hand, I know loads of songs about Nelson and camping in Britain in October is such a joy.... ;-) Chorus Here's one two three jolly lads all in one mind We are come a Trafalging and I hope you'll prove kind And I hope you'll prove kind with your eggs and strong beer For we'll come no more nigh you until the next year And the first that comes in is Lord Nelson you'll see With a bunch of blue ribbons tied round by his knee And a star on his breast that like silver doth shine And I hope he remembers it's Trafalgar Day time And the next that comes in it is Lord Collingwood And he fought with Lord Nelson till he shed his blood And he's come from the sea old England to view And he's come a Trafalging with all of his crew And the last that comes in is Old Tosspot you'll see He's a valiant old man in every degree He's a valiant old man and he wears a pigtail And all his delight is a-drinking mulled ale Come ladies and gentlemen sit by the fire Put your hands in your pockets and give us our desire Put your hands in your pockets and treat us all right If you give nowt we'll take nowt farewell and good night Hmm, I'm not sure.... |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Johnny J Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:19 AM I've no idea what you mean by a BS thread but, in my opinion, the real motive has nothing to do with "improving tourism" as this Tory led(Why do you always keep voting for them down there?) have claimed. They have another agenda. The Tories have NEVER agreed with this holiday which was first granted by Michel Foot during the 1974-1979 Labour Government to coincide with International Workers Day. To them, it is a symbolism of socialist/communist ideals........ see this Tory woman here, for example http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/bankholidays/7111.shtml This obviously doesn't apply to Scotland, of course, and we have to make up our own minds. However, I'd still prefer a May day holiday to having a St Andrew's holiday in November or a Burns one in January..... if it was a choice between one or the other. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:54 AM Personally, I think Scotland should change back to St Columba whose day happens to be in the middle of summer. And if we must celebrate an old battle, they don't come closer to the middle of summer than Bannockburn. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,oaktree Date: 04 Mar 11 - 12:26 PM @ Johnny J, anyone who wants to have at the Tories is welcome to start a BS thread but I cheerfully have at Tories everyday elsewhere and I prefer to discuss music and events here, so when I asked for a music thread rather than a BS thread, I meant that I want to discuss the effects on folk culture, such as the threat to events popular with tourists, especially British tourists who might otherwise go abroad seeking better weather, such as: Hastings Jack-in-the-Green festival: http://www.hastingsjack.co.uk/ Rochester Sweeps festival: http://www.whatsonmedway.co.uk/site/whats-on-search/rochester-sweeps-festival-p454521 If (big if, I know) the problem is that the powers that be are ignorant of British folk history then my preferred option to educate as many people as possible until the message gets through to the politicians who're supposed to represent the British people. I encourage my fellow folkies to do the same. As for a Burns day, you Scots already have a Burns night which, as we know, at that time of year in the frozen Northlands, lasts for at least 24 hours! St Andrew's Day also sounds chilly... or was he one of the Saints martyred by burning? You could start bonfire customs. Although Dave MacKenzie's suggestions of St Columba's Day and Bannockburn Day sound perfect to me. ;-P |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:35 PM If we want to encourage tourism why not have Trafalgar day as well as May day. ( not instead of). Always good to fight the French. Sweeps in Rochester has become very popular in the tourist diary, with an estimated 1/4 m visitors over the 3 days. A lot of the 100 or so sides would find it less worthwhile to travel if they had to be back at work on Monday. FloraG. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: VirginiaTam Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:37 PM It's a load of bullshit about wanting to cash in on the Chinese tourism by creating a day in Autumn that coincides with their Autumn holiday. If the Chinese want to visit UK, they will regardless of whether UK has a bank holiday or not. I haven't been in UK long but I associate the May Day bank holiday with Jack in the Green and Morris sides dancing all over the place and most specifically the Rochester Sweeps. One of the few highlights of my year. I might add that there were scores of young Chinese tourists in the crowds at the last Rochester Sweeps. Why is there no petition on this? |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: SteveMansfield Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:52 PM Can't we just wait until Margaret Bloody Thatcher dies, and then have a bank holiday to celebrate that? |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: VirginiaTam Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:26 PM extreme like to last post! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: VirginiaTam Date: 04 Mar 11 - 03:28 PM Hefner... yeah! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,oaktree Date: 04 Mar 11 - 04:26 PM Good point, FloraG, the French tourists can ride the Chunnel to Waterloo Station to celebrate Trafalgar Day with us... or not. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: JohnH Date: 04 Mar 11 - 05:18 PM It's not their day to change. What will alter beyond their credibility? |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Manitas_at_home Date: 05 Mar 11 - 03:24 AM There are petitions on this. Google Amber Rudd. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Allan Conn Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:27 AM "If the Chinese want to visit UK, they will regardless of whether UK has a bank holiday or not." I did think it is the UK as such! Most Bank Holidays in Scotland (apart from the very big holidays) are just that Bank Holidays with just the banks and post offices etc closed but most people work on regardless. We tend to have more local holidays here and the country as such doesn't tend to all go on holiday together. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Will Fly Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:49 AM I think it's worth separating the concept of official, government-designated public/bank holidays - something around 140 years old - from that of the seasonal, traditional celebrations which have carried on in the various parts of the UK for centuries. If you look at the historical development of bank holidays below, you can see that the actual days have changed quite a bit certainly since the 1970s. Celebrating seasonal events is not dependent on the whims of government. The First of May, for example, has had rites and traditions associated with it long before any Act designated it as a formal bank holiday - and those rites and traditions will continue in the 'rite' circles (ho ho) if the holiday is moved elsewhere. Let's not forget that the concept of the Bank Holiday - revolutionary in its day - was to give everyone, rich and poor a formal day of rest from their everyday toil. That's the spirit of the Bank Holidays. When they occur may be inconvenient or convenient, depending on your point of view and circumstances, but they don't spring from any fountain of seasonal celebrations. ============ The 1871 Act designated four holidays in England, Wales and Ireland (then wholly part of the UK), and five in Scotland: England, Wales and Northern Ireland * Easter Monday * Whit Monday (which could fall anywhere between 11 May and 14 June) * The first Monday in August (later changed to the last Monday) * Boxing Day (26th December) Scotland * New Year's Day * Good Friday * The first Monday in May * The first Monday in August * Christmas Day 1903 St Patrick's Day (17 March) became a bank holiday for Ireland only. 1971 Act The Whitsun bank holiday (Whit Monday) in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (which could fall anywhere between 11 May and 14 June) was formally replaced by a fixed spring holiday on the last Monday in May. The last Monday in August was formally made a bank holiday in place of the first Monday in August in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. 1973 Act 2 January became an additional bank holiday in Scotland. 1974 Act New Year's Day became an additional bank holiday in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and Boxing Day became an additional bank holiday in Scotland. 1978 Act The first Monday in May in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the last Monday in May in Scotland, became additional bank holidays. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Mrs.Duck Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:10 AM I don't have any problem with the date being moved especially since it is a very recently introduced holiday and nothing to do with any traditions. However if we have a holiday for St Georges Day it will be very close to Easter. I'd rather it was moved to July when there might actually be some decent weather. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Leadfingers Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:27 AM The Tory line seems to be that , despite all the traditional elements of May Day it is purely a 'Socialist' institution ! They really DO need educating !! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Mr Red Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:09 AM It's déjà vu all over again. now how many Tory MP's can place Trafalgar let alone pronounce it as the locals do |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Edthefolkie Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:28 AM At the Restoration in 1660, the Royalists dug up poor old Oliver Cromwell and stuck his head on a pike over London Bridge. Now Dave Cameron, as an ex PR man, wouldn't try that on with the late Michael Foot, but at least his lot can get rid of Michael's bank holiday! God, what a joyless lot of bean counters they are. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:48 AM It's yet another piece of Tory nonsense designed to give the illusion they believe in 'Britain' I think the English will observe St George's Day in the traditional way and ignore it! Also it's another cut, as the 23rd april is a Saturday this year so no one is getting a day off. And of course typical of this Condem Govt we're not allowed to vote for a different day, may as well be in Lybia! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: JohnH Date: 05 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM May Day is inclusive but St. George's Day is purely English and we've virtually ignored it for generations! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Snuffy Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:18 PM If the Bank Holiday were actually on May Day (May 1st) then it would be worth keeping. There's not much point moving it only a week or so back to St George's Day, and the weather's usually cold and the nights drawing in by Trafalgar Day. If we're going to celebrate beating Boney, the ideal commemoration is surely Waterloo (June 18th): it was not just an important victory like Trafalgar - it was the final victory, and Boney was there in person to taste defeat. Anyway the days are longer in June and we're likely to get better weather then. And it's as near the solstice as the current May Bank Holiday is to May Day. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:36 PM I'm sure Cameron will arrange for the amount of daylight to be extended!!!!! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM They could always move Christmas to October as well I suppose. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Tootler Date: 05 Mar 11 - 02:23 PM I'm sure Cameron will arrange for the amount of daylight to be extended!!!!! A Modern Cnut? |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:20 PM Spelling... |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Thompson Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:41 PM I kind of see the Tories' point in a way - St Patrick's Day is such a delightful celebration for us in Ireland - and Irish people and the descendants of Irish people abroad - that it might be nice to have St George's Day as a festival too. And isn't it Shakespeare's birthday? On the other hand, it's an awful pity to lose Mayday, such a traditional English festival, with Maypole dancing and all the pagan fun entailing. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST, topsie Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:57 PM I don't see why we should pronounce Trafalgar as the locals do - any more than they should stop pronouncing London as 'Londrace'. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: danensis Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:32 PM If we were going to have an autumn bank-holiday then it ought to be on November 4th to celebrate the last person to enter parliament with honest intentions. John |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: millfloss Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:01 PM I'm not keen on the idea of celebrating a battle. Remembering them, yes, but trying to turn it into a tourist attraction...? Mayday has much more of a welcoming vibe, to my mind. Even without the Bank Holiday, I don't think the may traditions will fade away; but perhaps those trying to "promote tourism" would be better off nurturing the cultural heritage we have managed to maintain, rather than trying to generate something new for reasons which are less than transparent. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:23 PM I suppose we should be grateful that Cameron isn't prposing a holiday to celebrate Rupert Murdoch's birthday. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:32 PM Just had a thought. Maybe Trafalgar Day might not be such a bad idea. Imagine all the primary school children learning 'Right Said She'. You know the verse: Well, some say Nelson had one eye, And others say he had one arm; But you'll have to ask Lady Hamilton If his other features suffered harm. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Tattie Bogle Date: 05 Mar 11 - 07:54 PM Can't resist re-posting this which was on another thread (thanks to Suzanne (skw), but I should add that I'm just home after a wonderful Matt McGinn tribute night, attended by several of Matt's family, in Linlithgow. One we DIDN'T do tonight. Some of it seems as topical as ever! WE'LL HAVE A MAY DAY (Matt McGinn) Chorus: We'll have a May Day My O My O we'll have a May Day then We'll have a May Day My O My O we'll have a May Day then I have friends in London town, the finest ever seen And I have some in Swansea and I've some in Aberdeen We're all Labour good and true, and I'll tell you what we're going to do We're going to fight this fight right through and we'll have a May Day then Back in '45 they marched, from barrack room and mill Determined they would make a change, for they had had their fill From the kitchen sink and coal they came, every Labour man and dame And shortly we'll be doing the same and we'll have a May Day then Our faithers fought this fight before, and thought that they had won You should have seen the boss turn green and how the man could run But when our faithers turned their backs, the boss came again to dodge his tax But the next time we'll no be so lax and we'll have a May Day then They're never ever satisfied, though millions they have made But still they think that you and I are grossly overpaid There's nothing that they widnae steal, they even grudge your kids a meal But very soon you'll hear them squeal and we'll have a May Day then We'll join in jubilation and the big brass band you'll hear As we march on in triumph to the future with a cheer But as we greet the newborn day, the piper he'll have a tune to play A lament for the sharks that are on their way and we'll have a May Day then |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Leadfingers Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:04 PM Apart from all that , does ANYWHERE have fewer Bank/National Holidays in a year ? England has EIGHT ! New Years day , Good Friday , Easter Monday , May Bank Holiay , Spring Bank Holiday , August Bank Holiday , and Christmas day and Boxing day ! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Tattie Bogle Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:22 PM Hmmm, well when I was working, my partners decided we should not take any of these holidays(except maybe Christmas Day and NYD) as it just made for more work when we went back after the holiday! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST Date: 05 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM The "Bank Holiday" in August is more than enough. No one, (except the local working poor) attempts to travel within Western Europe during most of August anyway. For most of the sckifflers...my bet is...they lose half a quater's booty...if they give Socialist May Day the boot. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Thompson Date: 06 Mar 11 - 02:16 AM Leadfingers has a point, mind. Maybe the thing to do is look for *both* holidays: St George's Day/Shakespeare's birthday (which could be a big cultural festival when Tory dragons were killed), and May Day. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:32 AM I dont think we should celibrate St George. If it was not for him we might have a few more dragons in the world. FloraG. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:12 AM 'Can't we just wait until Margaret Bloody Thatcher dies, and then have a bank holiday to celebrate that?' sfmans === What a peculiarly ill-natured & spiteful remark; not the words of a gentleman; or even of a human being with any pretensions to decency. I am constantly astonished, on this forum & in general, by what peculiarly nasty people so many on the left are ~~ notionally full of love for their fellow-man; but in fact overwhelmingly full of hate & spite towards anyone who won't accept their overwhelmingly jejune & discredited assumptions. sfmans should be absolutely ashamed of such a post: but I don't for a second imagine that he is. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: SteveMansfield Date: 06 Mar 11 - 02:42 PM No I'm not, as it happens. I'm not at all ashamed of despising the woman who quite deliberately put herself at the head of the forces that the 1980s Conservate government unleashed, to the great and bitter cost that we all bear to this day. Thanks for asking! |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Mar 11 - 02:54 PM Despising someone is one thing, sfmans. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions as to anyone's deeds and activities. But I do genuinely consider an expression of intention to celebrate and rejoice at anyone's death unacceptably and hyperbolically ill-natured and altogether unacceptable as part of decent, civilised discourse; and particularly, as in this instance, to suggest that it should be recognised as a suitable occasion for public celebration, just because the great sfmans takes it on himself to 'despise' that person ~~ ~~ to put it no more strongly than that. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Thompson Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:00 PM Thread creep... I would have to agree that there's no need to be abusive about people, mind, even if you don't like them. Even if you regard them with contempt. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: SteveMansfield Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:16 PM I'm happy not to repeat my views, but they are genuinely held and I'm not going to apologise for them. End of thread creep... |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: MGM·Lion Date: 06 Mar 11 - 03:53 PM Not talking about your VIEWS; but about the way your original post above suggesting a "Hip-hooray Maggie's Dead" bank holiday presupposes that we must all share them because they are so self-evidently right-on. We don't: because they are not. |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Crowhugger Date: 06 Mar 11 - 04:22 PM Mr. Red or anyone, do you know of somewhere on the web where the uninformed can hear local pronunciation(s) of 'Trafalgar'? |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Herga Kitty Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:29 PM Am I being unduly cynical to suggest that the proposal of a Trafalgar bank holiday (presumably close to 21 October) is just a way of getting a bank holiday that coincides with Autumn half term, to reduce the number of days that working parents will need to take off work to look after school age children? Kity |
Subject: RE: Plans to scrap the May Day bank holiday From: Tattie Bogle Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:44 PM It doesn't in Scotland, Kitty: most education authorities here have autumn half-term a week earlier! Waterloo is probably better known than Trafalgar, thanks to Jim Malcolm's song! We also have a "Victoria Day" holiday in Edinburgh (for some folk anyway) - 3rd weekend in May, but nobody seems to know why or how it came about!! And different towns/cities have different "trades holidays" (early July for Edinburgh, later for Glasgow, etc). |
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