What's happened to Sidmouth?

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:37 AM

You see David what can happen when you hijack a thread


Stu

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Johnjo
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 08:51 AM

GSTQ is an abysmal, embarrassing, tuneless dirge, with sycophantic lyrics that make me squirm.

I did hear that our illustrious royal family reluctantly had to decide not to invite all their German relations to the forthcoming wedding, on the grounds that if all the German 'rellies' turned up, there'd be no room in the Abbey for anyone else.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM

"God Save The Quing" Brill!
I'm going to nick that along with "Phish"
Thanks!

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:23 AM

The tune of God Save the Quing wasn't written as a national anthem.

Beethoven thought it was terrific and he knew a thing or two, no?

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 02:02 AM

Marcus...."pish" What a great word! Can I nick it?

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Marcus
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 05:49 PM

I'd keep that one quiet if I were you Dave, it's complete pish.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 05:40 PM

Here's what I HAVE said about rugby, Marcus - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#99.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Marcus
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 04:56 PM

Hello WALKABOUTSVERSE

I am a little disturbed to see you advocating the mixed race sport that is RUGBY UNION. It may have slipped your mind that some of the players ARE NOT WHITE and therefore must have some MIXED HERITAGE at the very least.

Please expect your DIM NATIONALIST CLUB membership card to be shredded and your lovely songs to be expunged from our database.

Or, in verse:

I have not a clue,
What these people do,
Yet unlike me,
they are form this c-o-u-n-t-r-y,
and that makes me mad,
so I tell everyone they should go,
and turn England into England again,
an England I did never know,
As I am from Oz,
though I've spent my whole life,
wishing I never was.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 03:45 PM

...as the Sidmouth milkmaid said when squirting the ploughman in anger: "How dairy!"

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 03:09 PM

WAV. I have not missed your various utterings...Almost impossible to avoid them, and having heard your recordings, I now avoid them like the plague.
Oh God, not pottages and Alf Bloody Ramsey again...That's so 1997.
And the faux English Flute makes a cameo appearance. If nothing else at least you are consistent. Just think you are wasting your time. People on this board actually understand, and perform "Your Good English Music" (whatever that means).
Oh Well, keep on keeping on, and you will continue to be ignored.
If you ever decided to get rid of your outmoded and faintly ridiculous views there are a plethora of intelligent people out here who would advise and help you.
But (sigh) You continue this ridiculous scatter gun approach that has no semblence of any form of sense.
Sorry, but, until you go out and get a life. I will now ignore you.
PS. You're not a troll, I'm sure, you just do a good impression of one.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:36 PM

Jack,will be saying, next, that LordRandall has a riveting storyline. I agree with guest, national anthems are a bad idea.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:35 PM

Ralphie: you must have missed the threads/tweets/blogs/posts/poems on sports, where, e.g., I've argued that our club football should be REGULATED back to how it was - mostly locals in MEANINGFUL competition; or in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#98.

And as for "Particularly as you are an Australian."...no - an English repat, who has read widely from the anthology of English verse, keeps fit with lawn tennis, plays an English flute to introduce English hymns and folk-songs, enjoys choral evensongs, was born the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup, and, to boot, whose staple diet is pottages!

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM

Except, of course Dick, the Americans use it for "My Country, 'Tis Of Thee"...

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:20 PM

I'd like to abolosh it anywhere...

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM

it is a crap tune, and the words are fdrap.the irish and french, italian, spanish, portugeuse, American, Australian are imo better.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:28 PM

The origins of the British National Anthem are well described by Percy Scholes in his little book "God Save the Queen!". (He could have gone further to look at later uses and pisstakes of it, though). It doesn't make any sense to think of it as English - it was specifically intended as the *King's* anthem when it was written, and the King was George II, King of Britain.

It's a terrific tune. I think only Montenegro and Abkhazia have better ones. (Abkhazia's anthem also has awe-inspiring words).

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:26 PM

Didn't The Sex Pistols write "God Save The Queen" ....????

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:24 PM

WAV.
Re, your Rugby aside.
I haven't gone through all the members of the teams involved, but, I'm sure you'll find players of all the teams involved, who weren't born in the country that they represent!
In the same way that there was the famous occasion a few years ago, that the entire Chelsea football team came from "foreign" lands...
But played for Chelsea! How does that work in your strange little world?
Should we sack two thirds of the Premiership, just because they weren't born in England???
Kevin Peterson (cricket) He's not English......Great player though...
Basil D'Olivera.....(cricket) Not English either...and there was a huge storm about his inclusion in the English team.
I feel you ought to reconsider your blinkered opinions. Particularly as you are an Australian.
You could apply to play cricket for Zimbabwe...why not give it a go?

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 12:01 PM

Couldn't find English Republican. Could find English Democrat (not very right wing though David)

Anyway, inspired by your avoidance of replies, I wrote you a new anthem


"God save our mongrel breed
For we were born to lead
God save us all
God save our immigrants
Even those with Aussie chants
Lord hear our call
God save our English Folk
Follow rules that David wrote
God save our song
God save our English flute
With a WAV root a toot
(Some notes are wrong)
God save our tolerance
Save us from smarty-pants
God give us strength"


Stu

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:21 AM

Is anyone purebred English? How far back would you have to go. Personally speaking, only one of my grandparents was born in England (and her family name was Jones and they lived in Shropshire!), but I regard myself as English.

Vivienne

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:18 AM

It matters not....As Flanders and Swann famously said, "The English national song is Jerusalem!"
The English, The English, The English are best.
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest!"

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 11:14 AM

god save the queenis the national anthem of the united kingdsom ,it is not the English national anthem.
our present royal family have german and greek blood, and are not pure bred english.
whoever wrote the song they should be put in the stocks for it is an awful song

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 10:36 AM

Re. "God Save the Queen": for what it's worth, as an English republican, I'd probably keep the tune and merely change the lyric and title to "God Save England"...God save our verdant land...

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 10:07 AM

Ralphie, you've got a bit of time because the Nationality Police are still in America, trying to pin some guilt on the bloke who introduced their National Anthem which was apparently adapted from a London Glee song. They'll be a while.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 09:57 AM

I will immediately do massive research into the origins of all the tunes I play, and expunge any mongrels thereby found, and will vow never to play them again....

Too late, Ralphie - I've got your CD! You're buggered, mate, and the Nationality Police are on their way to get you - earplugs and all...

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 09:49 AM

To my dear friends Stu, Will and Howard. We might as well give up...Unless you play a "Good English Flute" or an "English Cittern" (whatever they are....discuss....No don't!), and sing in a monotonic voice, You'll never inhabit WAVS world....But, there again....why would you want too?
WAV will never change his bizarre and slightly bonkers world view.
I will immediately do massive research into the origins of all the tunes I play, and expunge any mongrels thereby found, and will vow never to play them again....Bloody short evening then!
Out of interest, was God Save the Queen written by an Englishman?
Mmmmm. Actually, who did write it? anyone know? (bet it's a German!)

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 08:42 AM

The English langauage has always adopted words from other languages, including the Celtic/Gaelic ones - whisky, for example. The word "ceilidh" when used in an English context means something very different from its Scottish meaning. It was adopted in oder to distinguish a particular style of dancing from other styles. You may wish that a different word had been chosen, but that's the one that has gone into widespread usage.

These distinctions are significant. "Ceilidhs" are different in character, and will probably attract a different audience, from "country dances", "barn dances", "tea dances", "D4D" and all the other descriptions you may come across. Sidmouth puts on a wide variety of dance events of different types and these distinctions are important for those who attend. These words are not synonyms.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:50 AM

David, when are you going to understand that you cannot constrict music or any other art form with simplistic notions of "nationality"? The musicians I know and mix with don't give a flying fuck about that kind of thing - we simply plays what appeals to us musically.

You quite clearly know nothing whatsoever about folk tunes and their origins and inter-relationship. Here's an example to confound your puerile arguments:

Our band plays tunes in sets - both for dancing to and listening to. One of the sets we play is "The Irish Washerwoman" coupled with "Brighton Camp". What could be simpler, I hear you whisper - an Irish tune followed by an English tune (and perhaps we shouldn't be playing the Irish one... eh?)

Well, it ain't quite as simple as that. If you turn to your copy of Playford - and you do have a copy of Playford, don't you - you'll find a tune called "Dargason". When you play it, you'll hear an interesting resemblance in its melody lines to the "The Irish Washerwoman". Which came first - the washerwoman or the Dargason? Are they related? Do they go under different names in different regions? Take a look at the "Fiddlers Companion" website or "TheSession.org" to read about relationships, commonalities and alternative titlings to a myriad of tunes from the British Isles.

OK - on to "Brighton Camp". What could be more English, eh? However, it's commonly thought that this may well be an Irish tune and there's certainly an early printing of it in a Dublin tune book.

D'ye see what I'm getting at? When you start trolling on about musicians who should be playing this or should be playing that, you're in the realm of stereotype and cliché. It's quite clear that you have no idea about music or what drives people to play it. Why not attempt to play an instrument properly - join a band - play duets with other people - buy some tunebooks - listen - listen - listen.

Then - and only then - will you start to get a clue what it's all about.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:42 AM

Oh Dear David.

Each time you start to "contribute" to a post, you attempt (often with deplorable success) to hijack it and counterfeit its purpose and contents to your strange and unfounded beliefs. Your posts are seldom relevant and mostly just wrong.

If Sidmouth runs Ceilidhs, that's what they are. You don't have to go (What, you don't anyway?)

Do you go to any Celidhs? Or Ceilis? Or Barn Dances? Or Carnivals? No?

An obsolete degree and a FLT cert.,e.g. don't really qualify you to have a valid opinion.


Stu

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:31 AM

I'm seriously advocating, Ralphie, that we should love the national differences more - musically, you show me yours/I'll show you mine, sort of thing.

And the best thing, for me, about the six nations rugby is that such national differences are celebrated, for a change.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:19 AM

But WAV, These are just words not ideologies. Most bands I know play tunes from all of the above countries, plus France, Sweden, Spain, Belgium and a myriad of other countries.......
The tune is usually selected to suit the nature of the dance. And a good caller/band combination can create a great evening.
Are you seriouly advocating the abolition of the Gay Gordons in England???

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 11 - 07:11 AM

...and thus, Stu, should hold English country/barn dances; rather than ceilidhs of Scotland, ceilis of Ireland, and twmpaths of Wales.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: s&r
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 07:38 PM

Sidmouth of course is in Devon

Stu

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,cg
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 05:18 PM

I'm so old I remember people complaining about how Steve Heap etc had ruined the festival when they took it over from EFDSS. In fact I think some people thought it was ruined when they let song in. Things change. They have to, to survive.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

Futher to GSS, myself, and others above, in Wales I thinks it's a "twmpath."

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 04:32 PM

The trouble is Ralphie, that quite a lot of your posts to mudcat are not very polite.
Sidmouth has evolved, it sounds like it has become more commercial, this does not meet with some peoples approval, Ralphie, Ruth Archer, Folkie Dave, seem to like it as it now is, I don't have a problem with that.
Personally,I wouldn't pay for a ticket to go to Sidmouth,If I wanted to have an unpaid folk holiday I find other FESTIVALS more appealing, I like all sorts of roots and traditional music, but would only bother with Sidmouth if I was paid to perform there, but to be fair I didnt think it was particularly appealing in the late 70s either, I found Whitby was more my scene, but each to their own.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 03:56 PM

Jim Martin...I don't think I said you were a troll, just trying to answer your question!!
It's not easy to understand the useage of words on T'Net sometimes. But trolls are pretty easy to suss out after a while!
When spotted, best ignore. Just as I am on this thread, (although, being human, it's sometimes very tempting to bait them, never worked though, it just encorages them)
For instance, I think the originator of this thread was either a troll or something else. It has been shown by the owners of the site, that two posters here are contributing from the same computer. Draw your own conclusion, and then ignore.
Or not....whichever you find most fun, I suppose!

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

I came across the term Ceilidh, some time about 1978.
The term that was used at my primary school was Country Dancing.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folknacious
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 12:38 PM

Quite often, I've found, concerts often get louder towards the end with the crescendo being reached on the last number of the final act.

Well, who'd have thought it? And I believe they even sometimes do the same in classical music. Disgraceful.

Obviously they've never heard of the traditional fade out finish.




Sadly, neither has this thread

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 13 Mar 11 - 09:11 AM

Thanks very much Ralphie & 'Surreysinger' - so I'm definitley not one!

I've had serious concerns at a number of concerts (but not, thankfully, Sidmouth!) and have left them. Quite often, I've found, concerts often get louder towards the end with the crescendo being reached on the last number of the final act.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM

Jim - Ralphie has given you a short version of the definition of a troll. However, you can find even more in the Wikipedia definition

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:51 AM

As Don says. It's actually a legal requirement (I think) for earplugs to be supplied back stage at events. In fact all BBC trucks have a dispenser of hundreds of the buggers. It's very amusing when visitors think it's free chewing gum!
Meaning of "Troll".
Someone whose contribution to threads is only to stir up trouble, and cause arguements.
After a while, you get to recognise them.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:11 AM

""It's all very well saying 'If you don't like it leave', but if you've paid a lot of money and find it unbearable, what's the chance of getting your money back?""

I take your point Jim, and if a lot of people are complaining your chance of getting a refund would be quite good.

So, first, look around at the others in the venue.

If you are the only one suffering distress at the sound level, ask yourself whether it is you, or the army, that is out of step.

Whatever the answer, your suffering is real, so leaving would be a good option in either case.

Next time out, musicians' (or motor racing marshalls') earplugs are, as suggested above, a sensible precaution.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

Can somebody please explain to me what a'Troll'actually is and if I understand the explanation, I will let you know whether or not I am one?

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:16 AM

I'm finding this thread becoming slightly silly.
In a week long festival of 600 plus events, firstly, nobody can go to them all, unless they have multiple personalities...!
There are parts of Sidmouth that I don't ever go to, The Bulverton...mainly aimed at young people, too old to schlep up to LNE, but lots of people do. Good for them.
Morris and Rapper workshops don't float my boat either.
But, I can always find something that suits me, and if there's nothing on in the programme at midday on a Tuesday (for instance) that floats my boat, I'll just pop into the Radway and play a tune.
Dave above speaks wisely. Having been to Glastonbury more times than I can remember for work, and had to listen to some God awful music on the way, there was always something that caught my attention.
Basically, If you think someones too loud, go and do something else.
There might be 100 people out there who don't think it's loud enough. they have rights too.
I also go to Towersey, and applaud the management for the "Yoof" marquee. (can't remember it's real name, sorry)
Not for me, but Hey!
No-one is forcing punters into going to events that they find offensive. Sidmouth is/can be what you make it. (As can Whitby/Broadstairs and any other festival)
If you wish to sit in your tent/B&B whatever and say "I'm not going to that event because of A/B/C or D"...Then why did you bother coming in the first place?
Why not just stay at home?
I'm heading towards 60, am looking forward to Sidmouth, and finding out what the young people are doing...and Yes, I don't mind it LOUD!

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0033XVJKG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JMG2C32R


"Professional quality noise suppression plugs offering protection without muffling from the leaders of custom hearing defence
Sized for the smaller ear canals of women and children
Secure, comfortable fit
Sounds & voices not muffled
Flat response, 20db attenuation"

imho these should be essential purchases for all festival going families..

teach 'em to protect their hearing before they start toddling under and clambering up main stage PA stacks..

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM

.. and they're now half the price I paid a few years ago,

and they now do smaller size plugs for kids..

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:05 AM

Guest PFR - I used to wear ear protection all the time in Spain!

Starting with the plane going out.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:03 AM

It's all very well saying 'If you don't like it leave', but if you've paid a lot of money and find it unbearable, what's the chance of getting your money back?

Jim I cannot imagine anyone buying a season ticket at Sidmouth and not finding something to their taste. I am a concert-goer and my wife is a dancer. I never went to a single evening Ham concert and she never went to a single LNE and yest we had a great time.

The problem for someone like that who comes is at what point did you decide you didn't like it?

Before you had a chance to try everything - right at the beginning? Surely no-one is that daft.

Right at the end - after you have been and seen and listened to everything? Errr.....not really.

It's just the same as a pop festival - so you buy a ticket for Glastonbury and decide you don't like it. Whatever the policy is for Glastonbury, I suspect the answer will be much the same from Sidmouth.

So make sure it is what you want. Get a copy of Derek Schofield's book and read it thoroughly. Talk to people who know and like Sidmouth - they will all have different views. Take no notice of those who say it has changed out of all recognition. They might be right but you'll never know so it doesn't matter.

Decide if it is to your taste. Go one year and try it out by buying some individual tickets for events you think you might like.

The atmosphere is free after all.

I suspect you are a troll by the way.

Subject: RE: What's happened to Sidmouth?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:57 AM

in the spirit of mutual respect, common sense and reasonable compromise [oooh we do love mudcat...];

any responsible individual involved in public music events, either as participant or audience,
should at least consider this affordable minimal investment in hearing self protection...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Communication-Solutions-Musician-Earplugs/dp/B000UJ8RHE

no excuses.....