BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion

Subject: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 03:46 AM

I was down in the Job Centre the other day, looking for er...jobs (ha, fat chance down here in TerribleTorquay) as the one I had is now no longer...and was amazed to see all the Big Blokes who looked liked Bouncers standing round, in uniform, watching everyone...

I got talking to the chap I had an interview with, a really nice man, about my age, mid-50s..and I was asking him why so many threatening looking oiks abounded in a Job Centre, making folks feel somewhat intimidated.

He explained that 'the folks' are getting more and more angry..and indeed there'd been one such chappie earlier on who'd been on the way to losing it because he'd heard he could get financial help with an Anger Management Course....and on finding he couldn't, he got er..a little angry...

Well, before I knew it this man who was supposed to be interviewing me was pouring out his feelings to me instead, how his wages had been cut by 5% and frozen too, yet his bills kept going up and up and up..How so many people on Incapacity Benefit will have that taken away from them soo, Disability Living Allowance too, as 'The Doctors' dictate the vast majority of them are 'fit for work', when most of them aren't....

He fears for the future desperately, and all the staff are worried sick about what's about to happen when a flood of desperate people flow through THEIR doors, as the Job Centres are where they're all going to be directed to...

They know already that so many people can barely exist on the benefits they get, so it's not a big stretch of the imagination to realise the panic that will be about to set in shortly, nor the anger that's going to burst out all over the staff who the government have left to deal with this terrible situation.

Hence, the ever-increasing number of Burly Bouncer Boys in your local Job Centres, folks.

Of course, there are NO jobs for the luckless people to take, once they lose their benefits...but of course, Cammy and Cleggy, the public school educated, never wanted for a thing in me life, millionaires, don't give a fuck about that part...

I asked Mr. Job Centre if he thought 'The Doctors' would be fair and reasonable, and he just stared at me...shook his head sadly....and said that no, he felt the exact opposite...I told him about a lady on BBC News the other morning, she'd had a brain haemorrhage a few months back. She's struggling to get back to normal, having gone completely blind at the start, but gradually have a little sight returning, although she's now classified as Partially Sighted...and her right side is still numb, arm, hand, leg, all the way down...She can't claim Job Seeker's Allowance, as her job is being kept open for her because she WANTS to go back to work if she can....but now, they've deemed her 'fit for work' even though she can't bloody well SEE!! I mean??? WTF??      

Apparently, one of 'The Doctors' had asked her how many fingers he was holding up, and when she said she couldn't see, he got very aggressive with her and said "You MUST be able to see!!" ...She couldn't...just got distressed at being treated that way...

There's now been a whole movement to make Suspicion the name of the game, viewing anyone who is on Benefit as a Dirty Rotten Scumbag, basically....and whilst I know there ARE some folks who work the system, abuse it horribly, there are far more who don't and who'd give anything to be free of it, free to have their lives back, and a decent job to make a living from...

I'm sickened by what's happening in my country, really sickened....

In my last job I had a manager who was from Eastern Europe and I had to stand there listening to how racist this country was, what a terrible thing The Welfare State was, how they don't have that in her country, everyone having to work or starve..etc..etc..etc....I'm afraid that I told her we were actually the kindest, most tolerant, most anti-racist, and one of the most giving nations in the world, often to our own detriment, but I'd far rather have my country that way, than come from a country where no-one cared about anyone else and folks were just left to get on with things, no matter what terrible atrocities befell them...

She was so hard, so lacking in sympathy, empathy or compassion...and it worries me that there are plans afoot, heck, already now in action, to make my country become more and more like hers......and that frightens the Beejayzus out of me..and saddens me to the core of my being...

I know there'll be some people who'll come on here and start on about Scroungers and the Work Shy, but they are only a minority, albeit a bloody annoying minority. For the most part, as Mr. Job Centre was telling me, those who ARE on many of these benefits are desperately in need of them...

I can see most Job Centre Staff going off sick with stress shortly...and to be honest, who can blame them, because they have been shoved to the Frontline by mega rich and wealthy generals who have no thought for the 'cannon fodder' who are about to be mowed down by their horrendous decisions.......

I hate this Age of Suspicion, where all of us are viewed to be guilty until proved innocent..It's wrecking our way of life, wreaking havoc on communities, on friendships, on Trust...

....and without Trust in each other and of each other we are all pretty well doomed.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 03:54 AM

So, what do you suggest ? Keep handing the millions of freeloaders a nice cheque each week ?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:00 AM

No, but you don't take from those who DO need it, and even Mr. Job Centre (and his colleagues) feel that IS going to happen, on a very large scale...

What happens to those desperately unfortunate people then?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:07 AM

Millions, Richie? Are you SURE about that, or is that merely what you've been led to believe by many of the current 'brainwashing' campaigns?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:49 AM

Keep handing the millions of freeloaders a nice cheque each week?

This is why the tin hats get put on, Richie... Inexact statistical data (how many millions?) and emotive words like 'freeloaders'.

You just don't learn, do you? But I'm not going to waste any more time on you in this thread. We've been there before. My final advice to you is to get out of your rabbit hutch, go down to a job centre and talk to some of the people there. Find about them - ask why they're there. Do some research - or would that be too uncomfortable?

Bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Musket
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:01 AM

Just out of interest, whilst there can be good and bad in any profession, Doctors do not make decisions over people's abilities. They advise on perceived limits of capability, in terms of the specific nature of the handicap. Decisions are made by others.

I had an industrial accident 26 years ago. When I was in rehabilitation, a man with a very similar injury was in the bed next to mine. We became friends and still are.

We were both told we would have limits on our physical ability, possibly for life.

He has never worked since. I found employment that my limitations were less of a hindrance to, and have had a (to my mind) successful career.

I am sure the answer is somewhere between the poles of Lizzie and Richie. Might take a bit of debate to get there though.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:55 AM

Well the bottom line is this government is cracking down on the fraudsters and will still provide for the genuine cases in need of support. The days of some thing with six asses driving a Mobility car and receiving Disability Living Allowance because of her Mars Bar problem or the teenage mum who needs her ankles wired together, are over.

Labour created this society with left wing seed eating self help groups springing up in community centres up and down the county offering advise how to fill in forms and what symptoms to get to your GP.

It's over, accept it and whinge all you wish, you en't gonna change it !

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:15 AM

Well as usual the truth lies somewhere between the two.
For many years Labour actively encouraged people to go on the incapacity register. It gets them off the unemployment register you see, and they need to be able to boast that unemployment came down under New Labour (sic).
The French had a similare trick to keep unemployment figures down, they called it National Service!
Anyway, as a result if this policy, we now have many people registered as unfit for work, who are no such thing.
What needs to evolve is a triage system which is more friendly, and less in the mould of the Waffen SS. I too have heard stories of unsympathetic interviewers, reducing people to tears, and telling those, obviously unfit for work, that they will be removed from the register.
It would help if the interviewing wasn't done by private contractors, on a 'payment by results' basis. In other words they are only paid if they get the numbers down.
The same thing is happening to the long term unemployed, who are made to jump through hoops, by these same contractors.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:30 AM

The old austere looking labour exchanges have been replaced by the impersonal Job Centre + burley type Bouncer type security which is funny in itself knowing the kind of people employed in security these days - and that's if all of them are legal to start with.

There was a Job Centre in the most volatile area in North Bristol near where I lived and it had all the look of a prisoners visiting room. People queuing. many with babies and small children only to sit down and then ushered somewhere else to queue again. What are the children going to grow up thinking when they see their parents demeaned like that. It's not only about benefits and claims, not all people are articulate in putting things forward and faced with a po faced officious Job Centre worker cannot always put their case across very well.

Something has got to change with the look and running of these places to make people feel better about having to go in them in the first place most people I know think of the Job Centre as the last place they want to be. A few potted artificial plants dotted here and there is not going to stop a missile or two being thrown through the window which had been the case in this particular centre, not the bank next to it, ironically.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:41 AM

"Decisions are made by others" as Ian Mather said - and all too often these "others" overrule and ignore what the doctors have said. And in some forty per cent of the appeals made by those claimants, the decisions made depriving them of benefits are overthrown.
...........................................

One good thing about the Mudcat at one time was that, when we got in an argument we could remind ourselves that we share with the people we are arguing an interest in folk music, which brought us here in the first place. You'd meet the people you'd been sparring with up in the music section.

Sadly that isn't true all too often these days. And there are some pretty unpleasant specimens thrown up...

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Newport Boy
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:42 AM

A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit claimant sat down to share a plate of 12 biscuits. The banker took 11 biscuits and said to the Daily Mail reader "Watch out for that benefit claimant - he's trying to steal your biscuit".

Until we have a more equal society, the poor will always suffer for the benefit of the wealthy.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:58 AM

I hate to agree with you Lizzie, but on this, I do.

Mr Schwartz simply wants to oppress the rest of the world for his benefit. Up against the wall.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: banjoman
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:13 AM

Mr Black really angers me with his obvious prejudice against anyone who he perceives as a "Scrounger" I just hope that he never has to go through what I, and many others, have endured through sickness and disability. In my case having to give up a good career while still having a young family. I still enjoy the benefit of a Motability Car but thats all I get having paid my taxes and insurance for over 50 years. It seems to me that there will always be some who will find a way to thwart any system, but please give some credence to the integrity and well being of the vast majority who have to rely on benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:16 AM

Well the bottom line is this government is cracking down on the fraudsters

Of course they are! Have you seen how bankers' bonuses are, er, virtually unaffected by government policy? And have you seen how much in benefits goes unclaimed because of old people being confronted by impossibly complicated forms and little or no information as to what they are entitled to? And you know about those offshore accounts and those non-doms, do you? Get real, mate. All they're doing is cracking down on kids nicking sweets from Woolworths whilst ignoring the bank robbery going on next door.

For many years Labour actively encouraged people to go on the incapacity register. It gets them off the unemployment register you see

Nope, that was Thatcher, at the time she was dismantling the industrial base of the country. When she closed mines down almost all the male population of some mining villages went straight on to incapacity benefit (and stayed there for their whole working lives) in a deliberate ploy to keep the unemployment figures down.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:28 AM

For many years successive governments actively encouraged people to go on the incapacity register. It gets them off the unemployment register you see


Better?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:35 AM

As long as we remember who started it, yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

Benefit fraud, per annum: £1 billion

Unclaimed benefits, per annum: £16.8 billion

Tax evasion, per annum: £15 billion (have a read: http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/17-03-2011-tax-evasion-bill-parliament.html )

"Cracking down on the fraudsters" my arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:41 AM

(And blindly Richie ploughs on...)

Government figures for benefit fraud are £1.1 billion per annum. Richie's "statistics" are off some bloke's blog who's got a bee in his bonnet. I note he ignores the rich-guy cheat methods which make benefit fraud look like pilfering paperclips from the office.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:57 AM

"Benefit fraud, per annum: £1 billion
Unclaimed benefits, per annum: £16.8 billion"

Can you actually read, twat?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:14 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 12:29 PM

They are the government's figures, for Pete's sake! Hahahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 12:55 PM

If you examine the 'politics' of people like 'Nasty Richie' they boil down to two sentences: "People of a lower social status than me are getting more than I think they're entitled to. I will vote for any politician who renders them completely destitute."

The 'Nasty Richies' of this world tend not to think things any further through than that - they're too busy 'brown-nosing' the rich and privileged - not that the rich and privileged can give a flying f*ck about pathetic sycophants like 'Nasty Richie'.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 02:05 PM

Hey, Richie....

I'm a Carer. I'm one of the many hundreds of thousands of people who get trapped into a low wage...for caring.

I normally start my day wiping shit off the toilet. (not mine, I hasten to add) How do you start yours? Every single day I cook and clean for the person I care for. I do the washing, do the shopping, am there each and every day, every single night...

The other day I started my morning a little earlier than normal, at 6am picking her up off the floor, after her slipper had slipped away from her foot and CRASH! down she went...luckily, only bruising herself. She's 96 years old...

IF she were in a home it would cost you, Richie, a HUGE amount from your tax bill....around £500 a WEEK, for just one little old lady...

I get paid, as do all Carers...just under £8....A DAY, for the job I do. That also gets taxed.

I've looked after Vi for around 12 years now...and in all that time not one person every told me, until last week, that I could have been claiming Income Support purely because I'm a Carer. ????????????? In fact, you can claim Income Suppport and still have a job of under 16 hours, if you're a Carer. I never knew that..Did you?   For years I've been struggling on though, trying to find a job for 16 hours, which would enable me to actually keep my Carer's Allowance, so long as that job is minimum wage of course, because if I earn ONE PENNY over the alloted amount, then the Carer's Allowance is instantly stopped.

Carers are hugely discriminated against, and they get the lowest benefit amount of all benefits too.

If you're unlucky enough to have to care for MORE than one person, tough...you only get paid for ONE, no matter how many other people you're looking after.

And of course, with most jobs these days, they want you there 24/7 at their beck and call, hours going up and down like yoyoyoyoyos...and EVERY single time your weekly/monthly wage changes, you have to inform the Council Tax Office, either by email or by going in to see them, taking your wage slips with you, or sending them in by post.
Each time you go to your Council Tax Office you're asked to sit down and wait, given a number, and usually get stared at by yet more Burly Bovver Boys with shaven heads and uniforms, and shoes that would make an Army Captain proud...

You say to the overworked staff "How crazy is this situation?!!" and they shake their tired heads and agree with you. There is no threshold of a salary between A and B before everything changes, nope, it's every single time, no matter if pennies go up, or down...They then send out enough bits of paper to remove several acres of Rain Forest alone....and they'll do it the next week, and the week after that, and the week after that, ad infinitum...

It probably costs MILIONS, if not BILLIONS of pounds..and you know what Richie, it gets Mr and Mrs. Joe Bloggs so damned down and depressed that they then go on to get those Mars Bar addictions you so kindly ridiculed earlier on, getting fatter and fatter, or...they turn to cheap booze to drown their sorrow and depression...

I'm with these folks, Richie, I see them all around me. And you know what, they smile in the same way that I do, if you smile first...Many a time their smiles have many teeth missing though, because they've been drug addicts, or alcoholics. They're thin, wasted, tatooed, desolate, pale, dry skin, dry hair and a look of Utter Hopelessness in their eyes!!

When I go to these places I say to the Staff, "Can I have a private room please?" and they get me one. EVERYONE is entitled to ask for this, but few do, because they're so down, so depressed and so past caring...so they sit in line at voluminous desks, attended to by clerks who stare at computers rather than their clients, and fill in their lives on tick box questions asked to them in a situation of no privacy....

And you think these folks would RATHER be THERE than in some wonderful job, being praised to the hilt by bosses who bloody well care about them, pay them a decent wage which enables them to have a house, a family...a LIFE!!!?????

You truly sodding think that so many of these Utterly Broken People ENJOY that kind of life????????

Well, I'll tell you why some of them are trapped inside this horrifying situation, because they probably left school with no exams, so they can't tick the bloody internet tick boxes to apply for a job these days. They can't get past Corporate Bastard Stupidity which has now removed people from actually meeting other people or asking if there are jobs going, because so much is done on the internet these days...

Ring up Waitrose, Marks & Spencers, ALL of the big retailers and you'll find they're all exactly the same, filled with psychological shit tests they've probably paid The Emperor's New Tailors a BILLION DOLLAR FORTUNE for, and meanwhile, back at the ranch called The Arizona Job Centre, the cowboys and cowgirls sit in line, toothless smiles the last thing on their mind, babies crying for their tea, fathers feeling trapped, mothers hating the world.............because THIS IS their world, Richie.......

And Clammy and Gleggy don't want to know about them........They've never mixed with them, probably crossed the street if they saw them trying to sell The Big Issue in Eton, or Oxford...

And YOU, Richie, are one of the soldier boys of Clammy and Clegg's Army of The Ruthless, who are happy to annhilate the dreams of your fellow men and women who just happen to be less fortunate than you, for whatever reason....

What a True Hero you are, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

Probably shouldn't reply to your cynical post Lizzie, but I admire your devotion to this lady, and I think you deserve at the very least a wage, £8 an hour is ridiculous . I imagine you don't do it for the money, but it would be nice to receive an amount an adult could live on. I agree, carers save the system a fortune. It is scandalous what they are paid .

Well done, people such as yourself seem to be invisible to the government.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 02:46 PM

£8....a *****DAY***** Richie...

£8 an HOUR doesn't exist down here in Torquay. Geez, if a job for that amount came up, they'd be quwueing up around Torbay to get it. Look on the Job Centre Plus website, fill in 'all jobs' in 'torquay' and see what comes up. Go into the employment agencies and hear them say "Er...well, there's nothing around at the moment..."

Ha, last time I went in one of those places, the bloke said to me.."I think they were advertising in Ann Summers the other day...."

Boy, was he sorry he said that!! :0) He then had to listen to a 20 diatribe about sex shops which started with...."Excuse me, but...do I LOOK like the kind of woman who'd step into a sex shop???"

I fingered my pearl necklace whilst looking him straight in the eye.....He was young, so he didn't see anything wrong with those kind of shops on the High Street...but by the time I left I had him almost signing up to get them removed from our High Streets for the damage they're doing to little children alone, who walk past those window displays, now thinking that's all a woman is about...

It was kinda funny in a way...but also weird, in the weirdest of ways.......

Many, many carers do far, far more than I do, Richie...to the detriment of their own health...and whilst I'd imagine none of them do it for the money alone, ALL of them should be allowed to have a decent wage or benefit coming in to support them in what they do, as you say.

I'm sorry I had to shock you into seeing how the other half live, but hell, I've been on both sides of the coin here, never rich mind, but often surrounded by those who were in years gone past...but on both sides I always had compassion for others, because I was raised by a highly compassionate man who struggled all his lifelong and died without even the money to bury himself...Yet my Dad had worked hard all his life, been an Optician, but was double crossed by a business partner who sold the shops from under Dad's nose, having just had a 'gentleman's agreement', as many folks did back then. My Dad was honest, so he assumed others were too. He learnt a hard lesson which saw him working into his 70s, and crying one night when he had to ask his son to help him pay his electricity bill.

Life spits you out and chews you up sometimes, you know...despite you possibly thinking you have a comfortable life ahead of you for the rest of your days...

NEVER feel safe, Richie, not anymore, not these days...and never spit on those less fortunate than you, because one day, they may be the very same people who'll step forward and be the first to offer you a helping hand of friendship...

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:00 PM

Go to the Daily Mail online if you want the truth

And if you want some green cheese, go to the Moon.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:00 PM

Lizzie, firstly, please accept my profound apologies for comments and remarks made on previous threads, let's agree I was an arsehole on more than one occasion, add cunt to that if you wish.

Secondly, so sorry I misread your comment, Christ, £8 a day ! There is something seriously wrong with the system, I truly believed carers received a living wage.

Right, there is abuse of the benefits system, you know it, I know it. It does get on my nerves seeing loafers openly boast about it, I am not talking about newspaper stories here, I see my grandchildren working hard to make ends meet. I also listen to people boast how to milk the system and hassle their doctors saying they have alcohol problems and back conditions. Sad part is, they are actually in-laws of mine. One guy who is on D.L.A. had a heart attack 18 years ago, he claims he can't walk more than a few feet until he is breathless. He has mobility car and works away every other day fitting bloody floor tiles ! His attitude is "clean the bastards." Sad thing is, he raised three protégées.

Did I report him ? YES. They sent him out a letter giving him three weeks notice of an interview. He told them we was too ill to attend, they called out to find him in bed, his son in law got him the loan of an oxygen cylinder and mask. The prop worked just fine. Bastard laughed about it. Why could they not have his medical notes on hand and ask who prescribed oxygen ?

No I am not jealous, but I am bloody angry that such things are allowed to go on. Some here extreme stories, well this is the other end of the stick.

I would not refer to myself as rich, comfortable yes, I made provisions for retirement, the position I held provided a private health care plan. Also some inherited money and land.

I was raised a Conservative, I read the Daily Mail and I don't depend on the state for anything and never did. I despise people who leech of the state when they are able bodied and put on a charade for overworked GP's who just want to see the back of them and give them sickness certificates.

Right, that's my CV, form a straight line and cut the crap out of it at will.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:25 PM

Apology fully accepted, Richie.
Thank you. xx

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: banjoman
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:08 AM

Well put Lizzie - I just wish there were a few more like you putting the case to our overpaid pampered politiciains, most of whom have never had to really work a day in their lives.
At least you managed something of a back down from Mr Nasty. I am sure that we all agree that there are people who defraud the system but they are very much the minority.
Good luck - you deserve all the luck in the world for the job you do -thanks
Pete

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:44 AM

You got admire Richie's balls for admitting he reads the Daily Mail, it's the ' tory wives paper ' FFS

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:55 AM

Elderly folks who are classed as ill and in need of care by the appropriate medical official are provided with free nursing home care whatever their financial circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 07:58 AM

In the UK that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:07 AM

Not so Dave(or Eric)I recall many in the forces read it, do you not ?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM

Can we now back off Richie, please. His apology took a lot of guts, imo, and I respect him for that.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:43 AM

When I was in HM Forces the only papers we read were. Soldier Magazine, Parade Magazine and the News Of The World.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 12:19 PM

I appreciate that Richie is seeing how some of his comments really offend and can sort of understand why he is aggravated by abuse he sees first hand.

I would like to ask him and others to consider what is the agenda of the news organisation from which they derive "facts." For me the Daily Mail is not a reliable source. I feel it stretches statistics and prints outright lies in order to sell papers. It stirs mud and raises antagonism especially against the liberal left, by any means. The DM tends to appeal to basest part of human nature.

I say these things because once upon a time I was card carrying conservative. I was hot headed and loose tongued. (Sometimes I still am but now for the other side.) Now I try to read everything with a critical eye. What has the reporter/ news agency to gain by swaying others to accept his/her/their opinion? Is that gain something that really suits me and what I believe is right and fair?

Disinformation tears divides people, communities, nations. And a very few are getting bloody rich and powerful from rolling out a very specific version of "truth."

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 12:50 PM

In my work, I have been quoted by The Daily Mail twice. Both times inaccurately to the point of twisting the facts. I was not an opinion in a two sided argument, but a spokesman for what had actually happened.

Other newspapers have been known to get it wrong too mind. But at the Dept of Health, there is an email every day for those who can be called to speak on behalf of health and social care and it is grouped by interest, such as primary care, commissioning, social care etc. There is a separate section called Daily Mail.

Now, why is that, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM

Thanks VT, So what newspaper would be a a reliable source ? I am not being funny, I happen to like the Daily Mail. Clearly a lot here don't.

It all depends where you stand politically. I sometimes buy The Daily Telegraph.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:16 PM

I like the print in the Daily Telegraph, and I like a big newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 01:19 PM

"Elderly folks who are classed as ill and in need of care by the appropriate medical official are provided with free nursing home care whatever their financial circumstances."

I understand that this measure was brought in by your dear departed Labour government!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 05:29 PM

The Daily Telegraph tends to keep its news coverage separate from its editorialising and comment. Better on foreign news than domestic.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:17 AM

I think you are right McGrath. We'll see what the Buenos Aires Herald has to say tomorrow!!

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 11:40 AM

Just over a year ago I was made redundant by my employer after working for them for over 15 years. The job had been comfortably well paid but nothing to get too excited about.

I immediately started applying for a new job but, possibly as I am the wrong side of sixty, although I still have a few working years left nothing came of the applications and the few interviews I had were unsuccessful.

I did not take jobseekers allowance for two reasons

1 - when I tried to apply I found the whole procedure totally demeaning and I was asked enough questions for it to qualify as identity theft. I did not complete the application but gave up before we reached the one about the colour of the underwear.

2 - I did not want to be considered a scrounger even though I was, according to the rules, entitled to it. The effect that those who decry 'benefit scroungers' have is probably deeper than they realise.

My wife and I survived by using up our savings (my son's inheritance), by doing without heating, holidays,travel and by buying only basic foods from cheap supermarkets and spending virtually nothing on anything else. We did not claim any assistance for essential bills, council tax etc. The in-laws helped where they could.

A year later I was offered a basic manual job by an agency and accepted it without thinking twice. It is paid a fraction of the previous job and involves anti-social hours but I am just so pleased to be working again.

I am not proud of what I have done, I don't think that I am righteous for doing it but at least those who come in these columns sounding off about fraud and cheats and who might have seen me, a fit man capable of work, standing in line being given handouts will be unable to include me in their venomous attacks. Well done lads, you've saved the country some money.

But perhaps everyone assumed I was getting benefits anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:22 PM

As a side issue, this week DWP released its list of preferred bidders for the Work Programme. The majority are private sector empire builders like Serco, who rather than focus on an area of expertise, bids for contract after contract as they know how to work the tendering process. Usually, the contracts are totally unrelated.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 08:54 PM

If you are entitled to benefits, claim them. Otherwise you are simply giving away money to the rich bastards getting tax beaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 06:12 AM

Tax beaks?

Interestingly, I note that my tax breaks get less the more I earn.

Presumably that is what is meant by tax beak. if you are earning it, don't crow about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 06:28 AM

Reducing benefits for people who are out of work is fine....
IF.....(1) Government funds public sector jobs.
       (2) That creating jobs, any jobs, properly paid, takes
          precedence over shareholder dividends.
       (3) The public sector and/or private sector funds an adequate
          and affordable transport service that connects isolated and
          deprived communities to places of employment.
       (4) That refusing employment on the grounds of being under/over
          qualified/experienced is deemed discriminatory and
          therefore unlawful.
Reducing incapacity benefits for those deemed capable of working is fine...
IF.....(1) Sufficient investment is made into competitive enterprises
          where disabilities and long term medical conditions prevent
          take up of other jobs.
       (2) Refusing/terminating employment on the grounds of having a
          disability or limiting medical condition that prevents an
          employee doing the work they are employed for, and are
          assessed as fit for employment by the benefit system
          is deemed discriminatory and therefore unlawful.

The underlying point is that if the Private Sector had to bear the brunt of the cost of keeping people off benefits they would probably be lobbying central government to extend the welfare system overnight!

Of course there is the elephant in the room. The third alternative which tends to emerge in dictatorships - that the disadvantaged are left to fend for themselves - as in favalas/slums. Of course no political party would ever publicly advocate this.

Please feel free do debate this without tin hats and slogan slinging.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:07 AM

"If you are entitled to benefits, claim them. Otherwise you are simply giving away money to the rich bastards getting tax beaks.

Could you explain how that works please, Richard. I've never heard of a department within the Inland Revenue, DSS or DWP which oversees the redistribution to the rich of benefits which remain unclaimed by those entitled to them. Do you have inside information?

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Musket
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM

SPB cooperator. I must admit I am a bit confused about being under qualified is discriminatory?

Whilst I am the first to slip the "or equivalent experience" in person attributes to attract a wider range of applicants, there are many jobs where either law, common sense or both have a level of attainment attached.

That said, I am of the school that feels that the private sector does not have the capacity to soak up the public sector exodus. I am convinced that early growth (stimulating the economy) is a quicker way to cut the deficit, although I would agree with those who say that we don't have a good track record in keeping spending in harness in the good times.

The answer has to be in the middle as ever. Encouraging private sector growth is good, but does not address the underlying issue of the cost of social welfare. Kicking people whilst they are down is not the answer. Welfare benefits are a soft option for this government as very few on benefits vote for small government parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Benefits (uk) & The Age of Suspicion
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 10:05 AM

Good morning from Buenos Aires, I see that nothing changes when I am away!!!