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'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival
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Subject: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 28 Jun 11 - 04:48 PM Tina and I have been asked to host a "Folk Club Forum" at Sidmouth Festival this year. Provisional time just arrived by email a few minutes ago:- Monday 01-Aug 4:30pm - 6:00pm Arts Centre The programme blurb for this event will read:- "A Future for Folk Clubs. In the 1960s and 70s, folk clubs were the focus of the English folk revival. They still have a vital role to play in the 21st century. Vic and Tina Smith, organisers of the very successful Royal Oak folk club in Lewes, Sussex, will lead a discussion on all aspects of club organisation. Come and have your say, or just listen! |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Jun 11 - 03:13 PM Sounds interesting. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Andy Jackson Date: 29 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM We know who we are. Who are you? |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 30 Jun 11 - 05:12 AM Miskin Man asks:- We know who we are. Who are you? Is this question directed at me as the person who started this thread? You do not make it clear. Oh, and if you are coming to this forum/discussion please remember the dress code - Edhardy Tshirts,Gucci Bikini,chanel Sunglassess,Gucci shorts,chanel handbags. (Actually, I have always been amazed that Mudcat manages to keep itself so spam free compared with some other internet forums) |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 30 Jun 11 - 05:56 AM Vic, it would be very useful, if it is possible for someone to record the discussion, so that those people who were unable to attend might benefit if an audio recording was put on you tube, just a thought, best of luck and hope it goes well. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: ripov Date: 30 Jun 11 - 06:02 AM I've always felt I'd do better (financially)as a musician if I looked better in a miniskirt, but I think many might draw the line at bikinis and handbags. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 30 Jun 11 - 06:48 AM I will be recording the whole discussion and Derek Schofield has expressed an interest in an article that summarises the points discussed for English Dance & Song - though that will obviously depend on the quality of the discussion! Ninety minutes would certainly be too long for a YouTube or MySpace upload, but if I get time, I will attempt to draw a summary and synopsis from the points made and post it somewhere on the web - perhaps here. My intention is that the meeting should be positive and forward looking in tone and as chairman, I will not want time devoted to moaning or backward-looking negativity - we are at this point in 2011; how can we go forward? I do intend to have a timed agenda for the 90 minute meeting with six relevent items being awarded 10 minutes each followed by 30 mins general discussion afterwards. I will post this here once it has been finalised. ... and for newcomers to the thread the references by ripov and myself above are to a spam posting that has now, thankfully, been removed. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 30 Jun 11 - 06:54 AM Everyone who is involved in any way with folk clubs is welcome to this meeting; regular audience members, floor singers, guest artists, agents as well as club organisers. Those who cannot make it are invited to contribute by sending a PM to me. These I will print and read out at the meeting if they seem to have a bearing on the discussion |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 30 Jun 11 - 08:42 AM Vic,I have sent you a personal message |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,Frank Ingnobody Date: 30 Jun 11 - 06:14 PM I shall endeavour to be there. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Jul 11 - 06:21 AM Frank Ingnobody wrote:- I shall endeavour to be there. Wow! The organiser of the legendary Borfolk at a forum/discussion that I am leading! Other participants will have to excuse me if I am totally obsequious towards this iconic figure. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Jul 11 - 06:46 AM We have now settled on an agenda for this meeting:- 1] Club policies (10 mins) 2] The environment of a club and conduct of a club evening (10 mins) 3] Standards and Floor Singers (10 mins) 4] Advertising and Promotion (10 mins) 5] Finances (10 mins) 6] Comperes (10 mins) 7] Open Discussion (30 mins) |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Kevin Sheils Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:06 AM Although not at Sidmouth this year, Vic, a discussion as important as this makes a day trip worth considering. Although the cost of the a day trip is prohibitive. Hope it stays focussed and positive. I'm with you Vic on something you posted in another place...ah found it. I do, however, carry a torch for folk clubs and always have done. At their best, there can create a sense of communal enjoyment that is rarely reached in other folk/roots music performance forms. Exactly how I feel. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Tattie Bogle Date: 01 Jul 11 - 02:47 PM Sounds interesting but as one who lives in Scotland and is involved in a number of folk clubs and festival organisation there, is this discussion not relevant to ALL folk clubs wherever they may be, and not just to "The English Folk revival"? I appreciate that Sidmouth is a long way south, but people do come from Scotland, Wales and Ireland and beyond to the festival, so perhaps this could be opened out a bit? (Sorry, i know I'm nit-picking, but I think it's a relevant point) |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:55 PM Tattie Bogle wrote:- "is this discussion not relevant to ALL folk clubs wherever they may be, and not just to "The English Folk revival"?" The statement saying "English" rather than "British" (as I think it should be) was written by the person making up the working programme for the festival. I will contact him straight away asking for this change to be made - but I fear that it may be too late. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:58 PM it should be changed whatever, it should at least include scotland and wales. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Tug the Cox Date: 02 Jul 11 - 10:56 AM Is this a free event? |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:36 AM I really don't know, Tug. I don't think so. I will not know about this event or the others that we will be involved in until the working programme is published. You could try emailing info@sidmouthfolkweek.co.uk |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Jul 11 - 09:11 AM People who have been interested in the points made in this thread may also want to have a look at a parallel thread on the fRoots Forum. It is called What is a Club? and you can go to it by clicking here. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Jon Boden Date: 04 Jul 11 - 09:56 AM Interestingly I've been asked to run something similar at Cambridge Folk Festival this year - working title "A Beginner's Guide to Running a Folk Club" - from the point of view of a beginner (me) although hopefully we'll have some more experienced organisers at hand to offer their perspective. Clearly it's a timely subject! Jon |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:20 PM The event will now say "British" as opposed to "English". and no, it's not free ... !!! It's in the morning and afternoon talks programme in the Arts Centre, which is part of "workshops". You have to pay ..... venues, artists, publicity, priting ... believe it or not, the festival has to pay for them! Shocking I know, but there it is..... Derek |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:21 PM It's not too late for the change to be made...we'll sort that out tomorrow. The discussion will be part of the programme of talks and discussions which take place as part of Sidmouth FolkWeek, and as such is not a free event. Joan Crump |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:35 PM Oop - have cross-posted with Mr Schofield! Apologies... |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: SylviaN Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:17 AM Keith is hoping to be there. Unfortunately, I can't. Cheers Sylvia |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 05 Jul 11 - 05:45 AM It would sound like minutes could be posted here for those not able to attend. floraG |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 05 Jul 11 - 06:59 AM Flora G wrote:- It would sound like minutes could be posted here for those not able to attend. floraG An earlier post of mine says that this is what I intend to do. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 05 Jul 11 - 10:04 AM Sorry Vic. There is none so blind as those who read the first half then the second half and mis the middle half. I think the future of clubs is a worry. I don't see the youngsters standing up and taking over. I see the market flooded with degree competent youngsters and others of equal merit but all wanting to do the festivals and not wanting to bother with the local clubs. I hope you can come up with some good ideas. I shall look forward to reading them. FloraG |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Herga Kitty Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:09 PM Will Sam Lee be there? Kitty |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 05 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM will Sam Lee be there/. quote I do not understand the relevance of this question. I would have thought it was Important to have as many professional performers as possible, but equally important to have elder statesman[people like johnny handle bob davenport , martin carthy etc]who have been involved for 40 plus years, as well as younger performers. I am baffled . |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Steve Hunt Date: 05 Jul 11 - 06:39 PM GSS - Sam Lee is the organiser of a very successful (newer) folk club (The Magpies Nest). The others that you mention are not. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:06 AM so, you think is it more important to have a young club organiser at the meeting than people who have been performing for 40 years or running folk clubs for 40 years[dartford, southport, swindon,bodmin. I would have thought all the above they were equally important. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Steve Hunt Date: 06 Jul 11 - 04:36 AM I was the secretary of Bodmin for several years, and am still, at forty-nine years of age, almost always the youngest person in the room by some distance. I have performed at Swindon, and was the second-youngest (my then musical partner is younger than me). The people who have been running folk clubs for 40 years were, obviously, 40 years younger when they started them - about the age that Sam is now. Is the success of Sam's club indicative of a wider revival of interest in the folk club idea, or merely an anachronistic one-off? Those of us involved in both the long-established and new clubs (in my case, Bodmin and Barley Folk) would, I'm sure, value his contribution at a forum hosted by the estimable Vic Smith. Anyway... my answer to the question, "(do I) think is it more important to have a young club organiser at the meeting than people who have been performing for 40 years or running folk clubs for 40 years?" is, " yes. " Not because I don't understand or appreciate the phenomenal contributions of all those people who inspired me, but because wI believe that we need someone to inspire the next bunch. I want the folk club movement to have more to look forward to in the next ten years than an agenda of: "last one left alive, sing "Wild Mountain Thyme" and switch the lights out... |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 06 Jul 11 - 05:42 AM I believe that Sam Lee is not booked at Sidmouth - and I think that probably means that he will not be there to make a contribution to the discussion and the absence of such a well motivated club organiser will be a considerable loss to the meeting. His contribution as a young organiser is huge and runs beyond his involvement in the organisation of the Magpie's Nest Club to his time working for both Folk South-West and the EFDSS. When he has stayed at our house, we have picked one another's brains about club organisation and the nearly 40 years difference in our ages are irrelevant to our desire to pursue the same ends. I have also enjoyed discussions with the two admirable young women who run the Kit & Cutter club at Deptford though one of them looked a bit sheepish when I told her that the album that her father, Tony Weatherall, played on was the best album of English traditional tune playing that I had heard in many a year; she said that she would listen to it carefully. Jon Boden, something of a workaholic, has somehow managed to fit in organising a folk club amongst the 101 other musical and family things that he is committed to. Three things are fairly obvious to me:- * The folk club organisers who have been working at it for decades don't have a monopoly of good ideas. * The young folk club organisers who have emerged in the last few years don't have a monopoly of good ideas. * There has been an incredible upsurge of interest and performance in the traditional music of these islands in the last ten years or more and folk clubs have been slow in getting in on the action. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 06 Jul 11 - 05:48 AM FloraG wrote:- "I see the market flooded with degree competent youngsters and others of equal merit but all wanting to do the festivals and not wanting to bother with the local clubs." If this statement has some truth - and I rather doubt that it is entirely true from a personal perspective from the number of young performers who flood my email inbox with requests for bookings - then it is an indictment of folk clubs that needs to be addressed. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 06 Jul 11 - 06:29 AM Three things are fairly obvious to me:- * The folk club organisers who have been working at it for decades don't have a monopoly of good ideas. * The young folk club organisers who have emerged in the last few years don't have a monopoly of good ideas. my point entirely which is why i stated of Equal importance. lastly there is nothing wrong with wild mountain thyme it is a beautiful song that serves the purpose of getting everyone to sing to together. People like PeteSeeger[a consummate performer]understood the purpose of such songs as good night irene, and then would intersperse that song with something of political significance, like how dirty is my stream, good night irene and wild mountain thyme[or well known chorus songs] are songs that good performers understand have their uses. Folk club organisers need to know about how to organise, perfOrmers need to know about performing, That would seem like common sense , however common sense does not appear to be that common. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Steve Hunt Date: 06 Jul 11 - 06:34 AM "lastly there is nothing wrong with wild mountain thyme it is a beautiful song..." I know, I sing it. I never suggested that there was. Good day to you! |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:19 AM I want the folk club movement to have more to look forward to in the next ten years than an agenda of: "last one left alive, sing "Wild Mountain Thyme" and switch the lights out... Steve, what was the meaning of your comment? |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:39 AM "and if I am deprived of the right to choose what I want to listen to at clubs, I stop going, which is more or less what happened in the 1980s when we lost thousands of our clubs, specialist record labels, magazines, radio programmes, audiences...... and eventually our identity, and ended up with what we have now in Britain, a largely directionless mess." quote from Jim Carroll on purists thread. I do not see the British Folk scene as Directionless, I see it as place where singers can learn the art of performing unaccompanied and accompanied folk and roots songs of British and other nationalities in a listening environment, where music is not treated as wallpaper, hence the importance of seperate club rooms for folk clubs. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Steve Hunt Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:45 AM The meaning of that comment was that (in my experience) some of those long-established folk club's memberships/audiences are all growing old together, with very few younger people coming in. If that situation continues, those folk clubs will inevitably die when the people who founded and supported them all the way through also pass away. "Wild Mountain Thyme," is the archetypal folk club "last song." |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,FloraG Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:46 AM Vic - I'm glad you get lots of youngsters wanting bookings. Do they turn up for floor spots? Sell the raffle tickets? get involved? Do they audience well - listening to others? I know how much work it is to run a folk club and usually without any renumeration. We have a young person who plays with us - and we are glad of it - but I fear its the exception rather than the rule. FloraG. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Herga Kitty Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:35 PM I asked about Sam Lee, not because he is young but because he and his co-organisers of the Magpie's Nest, including Lauren McCormick, have been attracting a young audience, without whom there is no sustainable future for any folk clubs.... I fell enduringly in love with British folk music when I was a teenager, and just wonder how and whether today's teenagers could beome similarly privileged.... Kitty |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:43 PM there'll be nothing left to talk about at the Sidmouth meeting at this rate .... :-) Derek |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Herga Kitty Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:46 PM PS Yes, I know folk music shouldn't be described as a privilege, but it will be until more people know about it.. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Jim Martin Date: 07 Jul 11 - 06:43 AM I get the feeling that a lot of teenagers seem to feel 'disenfranchised' from anything involving adults, is that their fault or ours (probably a bit of both)? |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Will Fly Date: 07 Jul 11 - 09:09 AM Teenagers have always rebelled against their parents - it's part of growing up - no-one's fault, just life. How dull it would be if we all conformed to everything all the time and never altered from birth to death. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:20 AM if you want teenagers to come to folk clubs, ban people over 25 from ruuning them, get rid of vic smith, get rid of clive pownceby, out with the old, In with the new, doesnt matter if they dont have a clue how to organise anything, nothing must stop the pursuit of worshipping youth:p:D |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: Vic Smith Date: 07 Jul 11 - 12:21 PM Dick Miles wrote:- "if you want teenagers to come to folk clubs, ban people over 25 from ruuning them, get rid of vic smith, get rid of clive pownceby, out with the old, In with the new, doesnt matter if they dont have a clue how to organise anything, nothing must stop the pursuit of worshipping youth." I would rate this comment as "not helpful". We are where we are in folk clubs in 2011. When I started to run folk clubs, I was regularly booking people who were old enough to be my grandparents, Packie Byrne, Ron Copper, Willie Scott etc. Decades later, I am regularly booking people that are young enough to be my grandchildren - Jim Causley. Askew Sisters etc. If ageism is a problem in folk clubs then it needs to be addressed in a positive way. In fact, I'd like the whole forum/discussion at Sidmouth.... and this thread... to have a positive mood so that we can move forward. Much earlier in this thread, I wrote something that I feel I now need to repeat:- My intention is that the meeting should be positive and forward looking in tone and as chairman, I will not want time devoted to moaning or backward-looking negativity. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jul 11 - 01:41 PM vic, i added motifs:p:D THESE Emoticons according to wikipedia indicate large grin or laugh, and tongue out after a joke, in other words i was indicating i was joking. Vic,in my opinion you are coming across as being humourless. I indicated by using wikipedias emoticons that I was joking, is that clear, over and out, are you receiving me in deepest Sussex ? |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jul 11 - 01:54 PM at least that is what i thought according to my wall chart, apparently x_p, is more recent emoticon for joking, chill out Vic, no point raising your blood pressure over an attempted joke, I know you take yourself very seriously, but I WAS JOKING. |
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Subject: RE: 'Folk Club Forum' at Sidmouth Festival From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:13 AM Well the way I see it, ..................... erm, OK I'll get me coat! |
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