BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?

Subject: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 03:39 PM

CP... "While facing court martial, retired Brig.-Gen. Daniel Menard pleaded guilty to two charges: having improper relations with a corporal under his command, and trying to impede an investigation into their affair.

A judge will now decide what penalty he will receive. Military regulations bar soldiers, even married couples, from having intimate relations while on deployment."

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 04:04 PM

I suppose rules are there to be obeyed in the military. But I'm not quite clear about the circumstances gnu. Why is the Brig-Gen retired? And was the corporal actually his wife, or does the article merely state that even married couples have to be celibate on deployment? And were they 'quartered' together? Interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM

How about a link so we can look at the original article?

I never heard of such a rule, although decades ago when I had more contact with MCM & UCMJ it was pretty much prohibited for married persons to be assigned to the same place during a deployment.

The old rule on assignment was so that both persons would not be subject to the same hazards - theoretically so one would survive to take care of the kids, one supposes.

Some recent news seems to report couples deployed together, which would make a "no sex" rule rather difficult to enforce and ludicrous to attempt to apply, if such assignments have actually occured.

John

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Monique
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 05:49 PM

One article among others. He had an affair.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 05:50 PM

I would assume that the relations took place before Menard retired because the woman was said to be "under his command".

You can write your own punch line to that one.

Of course I'm assuming that the corporal was female.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM

MONTREAL - Former brigadier-general Daniel Menard was fined $7,000 on Thursday and given a symbolic reprimand after pleading guilty to having an affair with a subordinate.

Menard was downgraded to colonel but the reduction is symbolic because he is retired from the military and will retain his previous rank and pension benefits.

The 45-year-old Menard was once a rising star in the army and was the No. 1 military man in Afghanistan before his career unravelled.

Earlier in the day, Menard pleaded guilty to two charges: having improper relations with a corporal under his command, and trying to impede an investigation into their affair.

He apologized to his wife and children after admitting to the sexual liaison.

Military regulations bar soldiers, even married couples, from having intimate relations while on deployment.

Menard faced up to two years in prison.

Lt.-Col. Louis-Vincent d'Auteuil, a military judge, cited principles of integrity, honesty and leadership as he read out his verdict.

"You know better than me — given all the experience you have — what the principles of leadership are," said d'Auteuil.

"This happened in the worst place, at the worst time — in a theatre of operation."

He said soldiers were risking their lives in Afghanistan and trusted him — and that he betrayed their trust.

"You have the highest level of responsibility in a theatre of operation," the judge said.

"It was up to you to set an example."

It was the kind of transgression, the judge said, that could undermine the chain of command.

He said Menard had an exemplary career to that point, which is why he was made a general at such a young age.

"We must not lose sight of the fact that you did a lot of good things as an officer in the Canadian Forces," said d'Auteuil.

He said the punishments Menard had already suffered — his removal from Afghanistan, and the reassignment of his roles, amounted to some punishment for his misdeeds.

All the media attention to details of the case would also dissuade people from repeating Menard's mistakes, said d'Auteuil.

He said Menard will have a criminal record — althrough he can apply to be pardoned later.

"You have also suffered personal consequences," he said.

"You saw (career) doors slam on you ... you suffered financially."

Menard said the media scrutiny of his case has been punishment enough for his family.

He is still married, and has two children. But he said he had to leave the forces because he was increasingly isolated upon his return from Kandahar. He is now unemployed and is seeking private-sector work in management.

That downward spiral began the moment his affair was revealed by a prominent U.S. military-affairs blogger. Soon thereafter, he was back home in Canada and feeling like persona non grata.

"It was clear I was no longer in the club of generals," Menard said. "I felt completely ostracized ... I concluded I didn't have a place anymore."

His affair with Master Cpl. Bianka Langlois began in Canada. They met in 2008, before they were deployed together to Afghanistan.

That relationship continued in Kandahar. Menard and Langlois frequently had relations in her living quarters. He also kissed her at least twice in his office.

The general was initially also charged with four counts of obstructing justice, which were withdrawn. Those more serious charges carried a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

Langlois was convicted in a summary trial last Sept. 28 of one count of conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline.

She was reprimanded and fined $700.

Court documents suggest the two had a sexual affair between Nov. 15, 2009, and April 27, 2010, while Menard — a 26-year army veteran — was commanding Canada's task force in Afghanistan.

Authorities say Menard repeatedly tried to persuade his underling to delete incriminating emails once the alleged affair became known in May 2010.

He was abruptly removed from his post in Kandahar in June 2010 and sent home.

Days before his dismissal, a court martial fined Menard $3,500 for negligently firing two rounds from his assault rifle.

The general had been slated to assume command of the army in Quebec. Instead his career was cut short as he tendered his resignation last November and left the military on Dec. 17.

The decision to dismiss Menard in such a public fashion drew criticism and prompted a public debate about the military's strict punishment for fraternization.

Part of the criticism was based on the fact that the military refused to immediately release Langlois' name.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 07:05 PM

So...who gets the $700? And does that make him a pimp?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:04 PM

I did not have sex with that woman, ahhhh, my wife...

What does "is" mean"???

Never mind...

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:18 PM

The regulations are laughable, the outcome sad.

Demoted to Colonel, but since he had retired, he will continue to draw Brig. Gen. retirement pay.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:28 PM

Brig. Gen outta get him laid...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Beer
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:39 PM

Sad ending to a great soldier. Just because he got a little horny away from home with a lady who probably consented as well. Who saw and squealed?
Or was it found out some other way. Did she consent to it? Very strange law. Seems a little outdated IMHO. I have no problem in him getting the Brig. Gen. Ret. pay.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 10:31 PM

Apparently the affair was made public by bloggers on a US-military-related site.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: meself
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:05 PM

"He also kissed her at least twice in his office."

I hope the journalist got well-paid for lowering himself to that bit of tattle-taling.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Beer
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:12 PM

Right on meself.
Anyone know what the rules of sexual engagement are in the U.S. forces if you are caught?
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 06:20 AM

The thread title made me wonder what was deployed!

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 07:07 AM

John Lennon was right... "Make love, not war"

mp

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 07:52 AM

If a Brig Gen flaunts the regs, where does that leave his credibility?

I think he "got off" way too easy.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:54 AM

Bobert: "I did not have sex with that woman, ahhhh, my wife...

What does "is" mean"???

Never mind..."

Wasn't that a quote by a famous Democrat, while lying to Congress??

Oh, never mind. He was really a great upstanding guy you probably believe(d) ...(in).

Waving,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:56 PM

The regs are simple rap, if you are caught ,, they cut it off ...

geeze, military intelligence ... ahhhh what a joke huh

I never knew getting laid somehow made you a bad soldier ... I guess he was suppose to do what every other soldier does, find a whore house on leave

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Beer
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:08 PM

That's a good point Olddude. i guess if he had there would have been no problem and he would wouldn't have been demoted.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:16 PM

So, the demotion, could it be considered corporal punishment?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:26 PM

I wasn't gonna say it... been a couple of days of not saying it... but... he screwed a non-com. Fraternization between the ranks is "frowned upon" BIG TIME or so I was told. Had she been a commissioned officer, might the whole thing have been swept under the table to a certain extent? Perhaps a blot rather than a demotion?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:37 PM

corporal punishment
corporal
corporal
corporal punishment

Cause she was a corporal and he was punished

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 11:46 AM

This reinforces the oxymoron "military intelligence".

There is a certain logic here. Training people to kill is not conducive to good sex, unless by good sex, you admit murder and violence as a part of it. I would call that perversion.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: CET
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 01:36 PM

Unless he was having an affair with another general, or perhaps a full colonel, the offence would not have been any less if she had been an officer. Anyone who has served will understand that the captain and the general may belong to the same social class, but the disparity in power is vast.

A point that has been missed in the discussion so far is that BGen Menard not only flouted (not flaunted) regulations that he himself was required to enforce, but he failed in one of the prime duties of an officer, to promote the welfare and discipline of his subordinates. The MCpl in question was an adult and could make her own decisions about having an affair, but in so doing she jeopardized her own career and stands convicted of a service offence. Menard was her commander and even if they were mutually attracted to each other, it was his duty to say no. He bears some responsibility for the consequences that she has suffered

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 11:44 PM

As well as no sex no there is booze for the military in Afghanistan. However that only applies to troops dodging bullets and bombs. The Canadian embassy staff there are awash with booze supplied by the taxpayer, no problem!
Now if they would only send out some of these drunken diplomatic bastards to step on a few bombs perhaps we would have left that that place years ago!

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Beer
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:23 PM

I know this is going off the subject of SEX but i just want to say thank you ladies and gentlemen of the Canadian forces for a job well done. I salute you all. You joined, you trained you served. This war will not go down in history of a victory like ww1 and ww2 but it still proves that we Canadians can do our duty when called. Aside from the obvious question as what the hell are we doing there, we follow the orders from the politicians and hope we are doing the right thing.
Now lets get back to sex as it is a hell of a lot more rewarding than blowing someone's head off.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:07 PM

Job done very well Beer. Exemplary. Crack military and humanitarians. Some of the best of the best as in WW1 and WW2 indeed. Not such "victory" as helping turn the tide in WW1 & 2 at Vimy, Juno, Dieppe, The Boot... but the achievements in Afghanistan have again proven that Canuck soldiers have a certain ability to just get it done... often without a lot of resources.

Once more, I must denouce their deployment in the this theatre at present but I whole heartedly agree with thanking them for their sacrifice and their amazing professionalism. Yes, I am biased but their record(s) speak(s) for them... loudly!

Three cheers!... for our troops!

As for getting back to sex, okay... fuck our politicians for playing silly bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:53 AM

I think we can take our cue from Lysistrata. This would be one way to bring our troops home from ridiculous wars. Women of the world, unite!

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:16 PM

Well, wouldn't that just piss them off? This ain't TV eh?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:22 PM

If the women controlled everything there would be no wars. You see they care about their children and know how to settle disputes without going to that extreme. Maybe many of the native American tribes had it right when the women controlled the tribe.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: CET
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:08 PM

Er, do you really think those nice native Americans never had any wars? That would come as a hell of a surprise to the matriarchal Iroquois.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:41 PM

Sandy Mc Lean, I saw the Canadian mission in Kabul. They were nearly as sober as the troops at KAF, and the latter were pretty abstemious in-country. I partook of some of that government-furnished liquour, which was largely used to liquour up our non-Muslim allies--it helped to get their information and co-operation. Also, our dips were not at all reticent about going about in the operational area. Glynn Berry is dead for a reason.

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:43 PM

Sad that we had to liquour up our non-Muslim allies to get either their information or co-operation. I strongly suspect that we liquoured up Muslims as well behind closed doors. My intent was not to paint all of our diplomatic force with a tainted hue but only to point out some rather stupid rules and regulations. Afghanistan is a basket case of corruption and we can't leave a day too soon! Our troops serving there tried to right many wrongs and I am proud of them for that, but I remain unconvinced that the mission was anywhere close to being worth the lives lost or forever changed!
Now back to the subject at hand, SEX. Does the military supply condoms to soldiers having intimate relations while on deployment?

Subject: RE: BS: No sex with your spouse while deployed?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 10:09 AM

Olddude, Margaret Thatcher blew your theory sky-high, the same way she ordered the sinking of the Belgrano as it was sailing away from battle, killing god knows how many young men. Maybe, of course, she is not a woman.