BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?

Subject: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:27 PM

Himself and I are thinking that next year it would be nice to see the Canaussian son again, so we are planning a trip in October. Because we are not getting any younger or richer this may have to be the last trip :-( so instead of flying Oz to Los Angeles then on to Tronna as we have done twice before, we thought it would be great to start off in Vancouver and......do what?

We could cross by train, a wee pit pricey but we could both relax and enjoy the scenery.

Or we could hire a car in Vancouver and drive across, we have been warned that the prairies are flat and dead shit boring, but we have flat and dead shit boring country here too so that doesn't bother us.

Or - this is my preferred option - we could cross the Rockies by train so we can both relax and enjoy the scenery, then in Jasper or Edmonton or somewhere else to be decided (depending where the train goes) we could hire a car and drive the rest of the way across the flat and dead shit boring (but easy driving, we have been told) prairies.

We welcome any ideas, suggestions, yes-do-this or no-don't-do-that ideas, and thank youse all in advance for such suggestions.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:35 PM

I think I would take the train across the praries too but I never have so???

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: meself
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM

And once you've got through "the flat and dead shit boring" prairies, you reach northern Ontario - and, believe me, if you enjoyed "the flat and dead shit boring" prairies, you'll be in absolute heaven as you pass the trees and rocks, rocks and trees, trees and rocks, rocks and trees of northern Ontario ....

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM

I think I'd fly into New York and Drive up through the Maritimes, Quebec and Ottawa. Unless you are dead set on seeing a thousand miles of prairie.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 07:10 PM

Well... I assume a train ride thru The Rockies would be a sight, but, no doubt Ontario and east would be far better than the prairies for sights.

If you miss The Picture Province... New Brunswick... well, your loss. Not to detract from Ontario, La Belle Province, and the rest of Atlantic Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 08:55 PM

DRIVE through the mountains and enjoy them at your leisure. You would miss so much on the train. Take the train across the flipping prairies and DRIVE from winnipeg through the glories of north of Superior and into Quebec and on to the marvels of atlantic Canada. Stop and visit us in Montreal. WE have a bed for you. Rest and enjoy the music of Quebec. Visit the cafe in Ormstown where we enjoy so many terrific musicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:24 PM

Sounds great, Dorothy! Jack, we want to start in Vancouver because we have friends in Victoria, and that's only a ferry ride away. And we want to end up in Tronna because that's Canaussian Son and his lovely Canadian girlfriend live.

The reason I am a little uncertain about driving across the Rockies is because of weather - what would we be likely to get in October, probably early in the month rather than later? I know weather in mountains can be changeable. Some years ago we drove in a blizzard in New Zealand in a hired motorhome, and it's not an experience either of us wishes to repeat in this lifetime. Canaussian Son recently said (when we chatted on Skype) that it's not too bad a trip, but he drove across in spring.

The timing is because autumn is my favourite season, the colours are much more beautiful than what we get here.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:29 PM

I agree, drive through the mountains. Half of the train trip across the Rockies is at night. Many nice places to stop on the way through.
I crossed the Prairies once on the way east- not so bad. The blue of flax, the yellow of Canola and mustard, and the green of the rest make the fields interesting.
I took the Canadian route through eastern Manitoba and above the lakes- land of one hell of a lot of lakes, and treed country- interesting to see once but not twice. This was the slowest-seeming part of the trip.
I don't know your destination, but if it is the whole way east, I enjoyed two trips along the St. Lawrence and into New Brunswick, and on to the Gaspe. I could spend many weeks in this region.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:35 PM

The fall colours in the Ottawa valley are UNREAL that time of year.

Might be worth a little side trip for the four of you on the 401 to Ottawa. Where is a lot to do and great food on the French side of the river!

I lived in Ottawa for a few years. I'm a bit of a booster.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 10:23 PM

The 401... ahhhh... seriously scarey piece of highway. A million lanes of traffic at a million miles per hour. The most congested high speed arterial piece of crap in NA. And I ain't shittin. Los Angeles, New York, etc, don't hold a candle to the 401.... that is a fact. Avoid the 401 unless you are in a vehicle with someone driving who knows the 401.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 10:29 PM

Only in Toronto Gnu. Out past Oshawa its just another divided highway.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 11:15 PM

We had considered the same trip earlier this year, but we (she) decided that the journey was less important than the destination(s), and that this gave us (her) an opportunity to see people we (she) hadn't seen for years. So, after a few stops in the Eastern US, we are flying to Halifax and VIA-railing to Montreal and on to Toronto, with a few days in each place. We (I) are looking forward to the train legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 03:25 AM

Several years ago I took the train from Toronto to Prince Rupert on the West Coast. I spent a little time - both coming and going - in Jasper which I really enjoyed. I would have liked going through Banff again but that wasn't the way the tracks went.

Weather in that high country can surprise you- some friends of mine drove through a snowstorm. In July.

On my trip I wasn't bored at any time- Someday I would like to take a train trip that stops every night so one would get to see and experience all the changes. I can tell you the birch forests are the stuff of dreams.

Driving may be cheaper than taking the train but taking a sleeper is much more relaxing. Canadian trains have wider beds - behind heavy drapes - than the USA Amtrak. They are plenty roomy enough for two people who like each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM

I would take the train from Vancouver to Calgary that way you get to see some of the Prairies. Then I would fly to Thunder Bay Ontario. Skipping a good part of the prairies and the woods and rocks of most Northern Ontario. I would then drive the rest of the way through Ontario staying on the No. 7 or No. 2 highway. If you have lots of time you can loop over Toronto. Brother in law and I took 2 days from Ottawa to London (Ont.)without driving on pavement. Wonderful trip going through little villages.
Once you hit Quebec, hit for the "Café Namasthe" in Ormstown for an evening(every Friday.) of great music. Meet Dorothy, Bruce Murdoch, topicaltom and other caters like myself. Then off for the maritimes for some great food, drink, parties, making new friends and seeing some wonderful sites.
Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,Hi Lo
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:42 AM

Fly to Nova Scotia. stay there for a week, take the train to Vancouver, spectacular country all the way, even the "boring" prairies ate beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 10:36 AM

Why October? You are risking ice and snow in some parts of the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 10:38 AM

Hi Lo,
a week in N.S. and they won't want to leave.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:04 AM

I've heard SUCH great things about taking a train across Canada. Although normally I'd say drive, I think I say train in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:34 AM

Hire a camper and do the first bit through the rockies in that stopping where you want to and going where you want to. get to Calgary, hope on a train or internal flight tacross the plains then pick up another camper to do the rest.. wish i could come with you

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:46 AM

Good plan but a camper might not be the easiest thing in Toronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:42 PM

The trip from British Columbia through the Rockies to Alberta is spectacular by any route. Problem is you are in very high country and on a cloudy day you may find yourself in or above the cloud ceiling and see nothing. With a car you may have more flex in your travel time as well as the ability to stop and absorb the vista. Someday however, I would love to go by train down the Fraser Canyon. The prairies are beautiful in their own right and I did not find them boring at all. The north shore of Lake Superior is beautiful when you are in view of the water. If you cross Manitoulin Island you can take a ferry to the Bruce Peninsula and follow from there to Toronto. Superior and The Bruce should be ablaze with fall colour in October. Have a good trip! If you go farther east and are interested in Celtic music Cape Breton's Celtic Colours Festival is in mid October.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM

Cape Breton's Celtic Colours Festival... before I die...

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:49 PM

I'd ignore Ontario altogether, the rest of Canada does.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:18 PM

Yesh and Ontario is so easy to ignore especially Ottawa and Toronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:34 PM

The Big Smoke ignored? The Centre of the Universe? And, The Big Snore too?

How unCanuck!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:56 PM

the further west one gets the less relevant Ontario and Ottawa become, it's th same in the USA, when asked where Washington DC was, someone pointed and said, somewhere over there.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 03:05 PM

I think most westerners outside California might pull out their wallets and say, "I don't know, but their hands are in here."

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,Curtis
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM

Being from the prairies, I agree with BTNG, Toronto is not a big deal out here. I'd rather avoid it all together although that doesn't sound like something you'd want to do. I find the prairies quite interesting to drive across and, if you go through in October, you will hit my favourite season... Harvest.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM

Thanks for all the advice. One thing we cannot do, despite being told (often!) to do so, is ignore Toronto - our son and his girlfriend live there, and the reason we are making the trip is to see them! Tronna is definitely on the agenda.

Sandy Mc Lean has some great ideas, thanks Sandy. Leeneia, autumn is my most very favouritest season and fall colours are beautiful 'up north'; we don't get as much here in country Oz.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 08:05 PM

Toronto is fantastic to visit. There are a million things to do and see. Take the ferry to the islands in the harbour!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 08:32 PM

I've taken the train both ways, multiple bus trips in all seasons, hitched hiked, flown and one thing that doesn't change..it's long and wide... there are beautiful places all across if you have the time... the prairie sky is a wonder... lots of it and the elevation there is around 3000 ft so the stars are a wonder outside the cities... the weather can be wacky any time of the year... I once drove from Lake Louise Alta to Revelstoke BC in Feb. after a moderate snowfall at night... the full moon came out and turned it all into magic land.. so you never know... good luck, safe road.... and Toronto can be fun esp. if you have kin there... I do

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:12 PM

3000' elevation? I did NOT know that. Sounds like an amazing place to star watch! I would, NOW, definitely not skip the prairies. Cool... thanks, Ron. If win the lotto, that info will be handy. Full moon is a week from now so Lotto 6/49 better pay off on Wednesday. Lotto Max is Friday night and I can't collect until Monday but stargazing will be actually better in the following days... if I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:47 PM

To see Canada at less than breakneck speed would take about 2 months not counting north of 60 which is another 3 weeks at least and another whole travel budget. So it comes to choices.

What are your must-sees and must-dos? Will you have time for a Mudgather while in Toronto area?

My own answer your OP question: Car. And yes certain stretches by train work nicely. To visit Canada entirely by train would be like visiting earth from an orbiting satellite. From the train you'll understand the geography without knowing the lives. Areas with overwhelming geography—mountains, southern prairie, northern Ontario to an extent but do see Lake Superior—these area benefit from a train view as it brings down their hugeness almost to comprehensible.

I hope you don't "train" the entire Prairies. The Canadian Prairie is not about "flat," it's about sky, wind and light, to be experienced, not to avoided. Also, I recall lightly rolling land in northern Saskatchewan (comparatively!) while dead-flat was southerly.

Tip to help with effective camper budgeting--Be aware when you are told that the RV gets 15 mpg highway (or whatever the km equivalent is), unless it's teeny tiny or made of titanium, you're hearing a bald-faced lie. Try 6-10. Worse in the mountains. A bit better if it's diesel, but to see 15 mpg you'll need to eat the same mushrooms the rental agent did. Considering the cost of fuel, maybe consider whether a small car and motels might serve well and leave a smaller carbon footprint.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: mg
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:54 AM

I would tend to take the train. There is a pass you can get for $545 if you wanted to stop several places, like Banff if it still goes there...that is if you are 60 or over.

I would either take the train or drive and stay in motels. I wouldn't mix air plus train plus car. You want to be aware of the weather--can be very severe thunderstorms at least in summer and I am not sure when snow starts in the mountains...but the train is lovely.

I think 2 seniors with sleeping compartment is about 3,000..very expensive. I think car would be cheaper. I have done it and it is a beautiful trip. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: ragdall
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 07:02 AM

Jennie,
If you decide to start your Canadian adventure in Vancouver and drive, please consider coming north through BC and staying with us? From our town it's an easy five hour drive to Jasper. We'll likely be in Vancouver on Thanksgiving weekend, driving home on October 7th or 8th, 2012. Other than that we should be at home in October.

If you happen to be leaving Vancouver that weekend, we'd be happy to act as guides along the way to our town. It's about ten hours driving time from Vancouver. You'll start your drive in a beautiful coastal rain forest, drive along a spectacular river canyon, pass through seven tunnels through mountains, follow another river through an interior desert, wind your way through Cariboo parkland (Ponderosa Pine, Aspen and grass) where cattle graze, and finally into a sub-boreal forest. You're likely to see deer and migrating waterfowl along the way.   

The drive through Jasper Park is wonderful. The mountain scenery is spectacular. Bighorn Sheep and Elk should be near the highway in October. September through October is the Elk mating season. The dominant bull elk have amazing antlers. You'd probably want to spend a night in the town of Jasper so you can have enough time to drive to some of the natural attractions in the area.

The prairies are indeed flat, which makes for easy driving. I've never found them boring, especially in the autumn when tens of thousands of waterfowl are migrating south. Keep in mind that Canada is immense. Allow enough time to see it without being rushed. If you do rent a vehicle try to find one with a flat rate, not one that has a mileage charge.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: G-Force
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 10:55 AM

The train journey doesn't have to be at night - you can go from Vancouver via Banff to Calgary, or via Jasper to Edmonton, on the Rocky Mountaineer with an overnight hotel stop, so all the travel is by day.

Via Jasper you get to see Mount Nelson, via Banff you do the spiral tunnels. Both routes are absolutely spectacular.

If you can afford it, upgrade to Gold Leaf which means you get superb meals and drinks, commentary, and sit in luxury under a glass domed roof.

Been there, done that!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:17 PM

G-F. Me too, just back from such a trip, now sorting 100s of phots,more elk & black bear than you can shake a lens at & snoeshoe hare, hoary marmot & those ground squirels & pika fellas.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: scouse
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 06:01 PM

how much would a camper cost for such a drive????

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 02:03 PM

I never took a train 'cross Canada. But, drove round trip three times.

Most of Canada is interesting (IMO), and some parts more so. I especially like meeting people, so I find a car ride really nice, though tiring at times. To me, the people factor would be missed in a train ride. But, it's a long drive (four time zones, plus), and if it is rushed, it is not for everyone.

Ontario is really big. I found the northern route, as "meself" said (trees and rocks, rocks and trees, trees and rocks, rocks and trees). However, I found driving up from Toronto, to Barrie, around Lake Superior, to Sudbury, Thunder Bay and Lake of the Woods to Winnipeg more interesting (though there is some of the too much "lake, rock, tree" thing also).

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 02:18 PM

how much would a camper cost for such a drive.

Considering the cost of gas and the fact that they charge for mileage you put on it, thousands, and you would not be able to rent it for a one way trip. You would have to drive it back, and keep it, paying for each day, for the time you spent visiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 03:05 PM

Some car companies have "drop-off" capability, cars only.

A camper also requires prior planning- where to stop, camper facilities available, some camp grounds full up, some pecular parking restrictions, etc. Better to drive a car and stay at the cheaper motels.
Once I rented an SUV (Ford Explorer) and slept in the back. Field work with one-day stops at scattered sites, in 'bush' country, hour-long drives to motels.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:05 PM

An idea:
How about buying a modestly priced vehicle (say, via kijiji) in one end of the country and selling it in the other end? Cars are more expensive in BC than on the east coast, but with little rust. If one took that route, a BC car is a more desirable item in the east, than a eastern car in BC.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM

Ed,
that sounds like a great idea and investment at the same time.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

It might be the cheapest way. On a $5,000 car you would probably only lose a thousand or so on the resale. But it seems like a lot of trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:33 PM

Ed... you are an IDEA MAN!

JtS... not if yer a Catter and can enlist the help of other catters.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:35 PM

Hmmmm... what about insurance?

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:39 PM

Buy the car in the son's name, add it to his policy?

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:06 PM

So about a year ago, I started planning a trip from Montreal to Seattle by plane and back by truck. I kept asking my partner "when can we go? If we leave it too late, there might be snow in the Rockies." "I don't mind snow in the mountains." We went in November and caught the first snow of the year coming down the east slope. Whit knuckle driving! But October should be fine and I would sure have hated to have missed that drive through the Rockies. I was just spectacular.

On the other hand, the prairies. I have been across them many times in each direction and even the first time was too much. By train you can fall asleep safely. From Winnipeg east, you will get some prairie and then the glories of the area north of Superior. From the Terry Fox park, you can see forever across the Lake.

That car idea, however, is worth a look. Then it might be worth the trip across the prairies.

It sounds like you are quitting in Toronto? Would be a shame to come all this way and not see the whole of Canada! By train, plane or automobile.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:31 PM

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=124752&messages=10

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:36 PM

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=121384&messages=84

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 08:35 PM

I did some research into RV/camper costs, being interested ourselves. I looked mainly at a 2-person camper-van (van conversion) with insufficient space to bring along our 3 sixty-plus pound dogs. I assumed a 21-day rental (19-day trip) even though it's really too short for a great trip, IMO it's the bare minimum time to see a few sights between hither and thither. I've generalized and rounded some numbers to come up with a ballpark idea. It could cost more or less depending on details, specials, season or if over a long weekend. I'm almost afraid to add up the amounts down the left shown in boldface (amounts in regular font that happen to be at the left margin are just part of the description, not an amount to add on) but that'll give a good guide to the price of 3-weeks Vancouver to Toronto through Canada:

Basic Rental
$1,100 for 7 days camper rental, which would cover a Vancouver-Toronto by driving 8+ hours every day for 6 days, this allowing a barely any time at each end to pick up, pack up, empty, gas-up and return the thing. But that won't allow time to figure out how you want to pack your stuff into it, and then do so--that's usually at least another day.
$2,200 rental for another 2 weeks worth of sight-seeing and stopping just because it's nice.

Insurance Upgrade
$672 ($32 per day) insurance upgrade takes the collision deductible from $5,000 to nil and the comprehensive deductible from $500 to $300. Or $525 ($25 per day) drops the collision deductible to $500 from $5,000.

Mileage Charge
$1,260 in mileage for the basic A-to-B trip; using 4,407 km from MapQuest's shortest drive time for an all-Canadian route. This cost is based on pre-purchased blocks of 500 km @ $140 each ($.28/km). The same km paid at the end would be $180, or $.36/km.
$280 in mileage assuming another 1,000 km worth of driving off the basic A-to-B route for sightseeing, groceries, getting to & from campgrounds and whatnot.

One-way Fee
$520 at one website for the "one-way fee", generally non-refundable upon cancellation (to drop off the camper at a different city than where rented). Some web sites aren't very clear about this charge, but you can be certain there will be one. At one site the fee was the same no matter the model of camper. I don't know yet what's industry standard.

Fuel
I come up with approximately
$1,500 like this: I'll be optimistic and hope that being featherfooted and choosing the smallest available unit, one might get close to 15 mpg IMP (25% bigger than US, so 12 mpg US). So I've used 5 km per litre (14.12 mpg IMP or 11.76 mpg US) to figure the A-to-B driving and 3.6 km/l (10.17 mpg IMP or 8.47 mpg US) for sight-seeing, groceries and whatever side trips. But y'know after all that, I'd probably add 20% to my budget because I just don't believe the mileage will be quite that good.

Small Stuff You'll Need or Want
$200-300 worth of flat-rate fees for stuff like toaster, coffemaker, dishes, pots, lawn chairs, folding table for outdoors, etc. While we would use our own, those coming from overseas would be stuck renting whatever you can't do without, or compare to the cost of getting what you can from Goodwill, or borrow from local friends and ship it back to them, or to use paper dishes where there is municipal composting...devil in the details here.

I didn't notice listings to rent a cooler, which you'd want to do because the fridge in a van conversion is usually very small. Depends how much cooking you plan to do. Keep in mind that counter space = zero in this kind of camper. The counter is used up by the wee sink and 2 burner stove so you have to use the table and get a sore back from leaning at a bad angle.
$50 or less to buy one. Plan to buy ice every 1.5-2 days in spring and fall, at least daily in the summer.

Biting-bug-barrier
I also didn't see any listing for dining tent rental at the RV sites I visited, but unless you're going in fall-winter or NEVER sitting outdoors, you need one. Period. Canada is blackfly and/or mosquito country May-September:
$150-200 to buy an easy-up screened tent. There are cheaper ones. JennieG, you don't need this at the time of year you're expecting to travel.

Campground Fees
$665 to $855 assuming $35-45 per night. Some private ones fall in this price range, some will be more. Provincial and National Parks systems are great, may as well use them. Facilities generally aren't rustic as when I was a kid, although some locations may be--full details online. You may be fine, being off season, but may have to hunt for spots at the most popular campgrounds, which can fill up almost a year in advance. Many hold back a percentage for drive-ins, so arrive very early if you are counting on that.

Plus provincial sales tax & GST, of course, except not GST on insurance if I'm not mistaken.

Extra, of course, are your food & drink, souvenirs, propane refills, firewood, tickets to sights and events etc.

Another expense for us in particular
$2,470 ($130/day x 19 days, this one includes tax) to board our 3 full-sized dogs at the open-concept kennel. They always come home happy and tired with no new fears or issues. They are used to a 1-2 hour off-leash walk most days in addition to on-leash time so we deeply hesitate to put them in a $25 per day per dog cage-kennel that gives them 30 mins exercise in a narrow, concrete run full of yuck. Those kennels often come with staff who hold a matching attitude and skill level, so it's not worth the risk of having to un-do behavioural damage. In reality, we'd likely opt for a larger camper (increase by 30-50% the rental cost; double the fuel cost) and move the $130/day boarding budget to the rental line--and take the "whole family."

Anyway that's my first look at the whole idea. Now I know that RV touring is a lifestyle choice not an economy option. And we'll be saving for a while, or else using car+motel for such a trip. Fortunately the dogs are glad to sleep in their crates.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:07 PM

Lot of work by crowhugger; makes me cringe at the thought.

The best way is by car, staying at motels, and taking your time. Not exactly cheap either. We did a big circle once- Calgary to New Mexico to Louisiana to Georgia to Virginia and New York, Quebec and Toronto, then across Ontario and Manitoba to the prairies and home. Lots of memories, saw lots of relatives, but once was enough. One week breaks with relatives in New Mexico and Georgia.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 10:57 PM

Oops, mistake on the dog-boarding: the cheapie option would be $75/day for 3 dogs.

Yep, fair bit work, most of the afternoon. Not hard, just nit picky back and forth among various screens. Much of the info is easily available on the net.

We vaguely tossed around the idea of renting an RV for a week to go see family, if it would prove cheaper than boarding the dogs (3 biggish dogs in a smallish house with cats...way more fun to watch than TV, but not good visit etiquette). In that instance we would rent upon arrival and park it in a laneway, meaning negligible mileage and fuel costs. Once the notion of RV rental entered our minds, since hubby hasn't been west of Windsor, ON, ever and I haven't been west of Wisconsin for years, of course we said that one of these days we should check what it would cost to cross Canada (east, west and north in separate trips). Today became that day.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:31 AM

Excellent work Crowhugger. Should help Jennie G.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:14 PM

weather in canadian rockies in october

http://www.rockies.com/canadianrockies/travel-information/weather-in-the-canadian-rockies.html

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:26 PM

Crowhugger... yer a trooper! Well done! Yer research is to be commended!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 09:48 PM

Wowsers, Crowhugger - you have been busy! Commendations indeed! While we are used to camping/touring in our small caravan (travel trailer) and hired a motorhome in New Zealand in 2000, I think we will just hire a car and stay in motels or B & Bs. The trip across will be one-way, we will probably fly home again because it's quicker, so having a car could also be handy when we get to TO. We have used the TTC to get around on our two previous visits and found it suits us, but a car could be handy if we want to go for a Nice Sunday Drive on any day of the week. We have stayed in a beaut place in the Upper Beaches (in Victoria Park Ave just north of Kingston Road, for those who know TO) and hopefully will stay there again as it's not too far from Canaussian son and another friend. That way we can spend lots of time with them but also have time to ourselves; if you have ever stayed with rels you know what I mean.

And the place where we stayed is just a short distance from Acoustic Harvest folk club - how cool is that!

Thank you all very much for your answers and feedback, it has been very helpful and we really appreciate it.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: scouse
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:10 AM

Thanks Crowhugger that was some work there...I'll make sure I win the Lotto before trying such a journey,mind in saying that, If I win the Lotto..... I'll buy me own Camper!!!!

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Willie-O
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 08:34 AM

There is a tendency to drive all night across the prairies, and it's not such a bad idea. Get a bunch of Ian Tyson CD's for this part of the drive, regardless of what time of day. Last time I did it I spent the night driving in the August meteor shower listening to "18 Inches of Rain" twice over...a truly western experience.

Consider the southern route in southeastern BC, through the Kootenays and NElson, then across to Alberta via the Crows Nest Pass (which is less steep than the main Trans-Canada route farther north--less prone to early snow, although the same can't be said for the Kootenay Pass between Nelson and Creston. You can take the Kootenay Lake ferry route and avoid the pass if you'd rather.) If you go this way, at the ALberta-BC border you will see lots of info about the Frank Slide which buried the town of the same name a century ago. If you keep your eyes open, you will find the turnoff to the Hillcrest Mine Cemetery, a few kms east of the Frank Slide displays--this is where the victims of the Hillcrest Mine disaster, commemorated in James Keelaghan's song, are buried. Well worth a thoughtful hour or two side trip (just a few minutes drive from the highway) and not all touristed up.

The mountains, needless to say, are best driven in daylight :)
W-O

One bonus of October is motels are post-peak season cheaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Willie-O
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 09:59 AM

Northern Ontario is a fantastic drive, particularly the Superior shore. One of my favourite places on it is the Terry Fox Memorial, commemorating the young Canadian who attempted to run across Canada circa 1980 with one artificial leg, to raise funds for cancer research.
The memorial, located where Terry ended his attempt due to recurrance of the cancer that killed him a year later, is on an incredibly beautiful overlook of Superior, about an hour southeast of THunder Bay. And, very sensibly, it has the best washrooms on the entire Trans-Canada Highway. Don't miss it!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 01:46 PM

But ya still gotta go thru The Big Smoke if ya take the 401 all the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 01:53 PM

There is a route I recall through the northern suburbs that is very interesting. There are Native American stores and such on it. Is it highway 7?

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:16 PM

My first time on the northern route of the Trans-Canada Hwy. (TCH) I found the "rocks and trees and rocks and trees" through northern Ontario while yes, repetetive, yet held a particular fascination. Born and raised around Ottawa then living variously within southern Ontario all my adult life, I was amazed by how short the trees are at the northernmost parts of the TCH! For miles and miles I felt powerful new understanding of middle-school geography lessons. The height of the bush coming up to meet the road became ever lower and lower going north from North Bay through New Liskeard, Iroquois Falls, towards Hearst. Where the highway runs east-west again the trees are shortest, like nothing I'd seen. This stretch of highway is also where roadside dwellings appeared to rest on sodded flaps of road allowance tentatively extended into the bush. The highway itself had become a long, shallow chisel mark through dwarf forest. Eventually, somewhere after Geraldton, the highway arched southward again, and the slim channel was chiseled deeper and deeper until the bush resumed almost its full as we neared Lake Superior. As you may gather, I'll never forget it.

Off-shooting that highway were (surely still are) countless fire access roads, mostly dirt roads or tracks some of which would challenge an ATV. We turned off onto a few of fire roads just to check them out, see where they went. They weren't marked on the map. Sometimes we found a dead end, but I still loved seeing the swampy forest up close--the birds were very tame, and the trees were so short I felt I would scrape my knuckles on the sky if I waved my arms too high.

Twice while exploring such roads we found old log cabins, one in considerable disrepair. The other was in pretty good shape but for re-chinking. It had a nearby henhouse, an outhouse, and situated in the centre of this cluster, an outdoor kitchen and laundry. After being initially startled and delighted by our discovery, I was moved by the presence of raw history. We spent a couple of hours just being there, soaking up the scene, trying to imagine life in that circumstance, with that outdoor hub at its centre. Best we could guess from tobbacco and other tins within the cabin, provisions were last brought in around the mid 1940s. IIRC we were there in 1977.

All that is to say, you never know when something will be more than it first seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:26 PM

JtS, yes could well be that's the road you mean, although I don't recall any particular native-run or -wares stores, maybe I've forgotten or they've closed. Was that some time ago? Nowadays that road is just a necessary evil if going to something in the area, often just as congested as the 401 but with traffic lights to stall and complicate things. Those who can afford it use the 407 with its extremely high tolls. Maybe what you recall was further out of town? East of Peterborough here and there along Hwy 7 are native-goods souvenir shops. Also further north of TO than Hwy 7 esp. on Hwy 11.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:40 PM

Just thought...

How do you get to Antigonish? Take the T-Can and turn at the first set of lights.

Canuck joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

It was bout 20 years now, Yeah, starting about 10 or 20 miles east of TO on 7. 7 is a lot more scenic and interesting than 401, I think it takes you most of the way to Ottawa.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:48 PM

You want to see short scrubby weather beaten trees go to Nefoundland and take the TCH from Whitbourne to St. John's

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: BTNG
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:51 PM

"
There is a route I recall through the northern suburbs that is very interesting. There are Native American stores and such on it. Is it highway 7?"

Yes Jack it is Highway 7... and from the sublime to the sort of ridiculous, Canada's Wonderland is on that same highway.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:59 PM

JtS, Nfld & Labrador are on my travel to do list, as is the true north, especially far enough north that they measure tree height in centimetres. When my father died last year, disparate parts of my family got back in touch so I now have a relative to visit on Baffin Island!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM

Nfld and Labrador are two separate trips unless you fly or take a boat from one to the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:22 PM

Um, Jack, I can't find a way to say this that won't sound like either a wisecrack or a slight, so fair warning: Every journey to more than one place requires two trips unless you somehow get from one t'other(s).
;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:25 PM

I'm saying that if you drive to the either, you have to leave your car to get to the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 07:35 AM

If it IS October , why not fly to DC and catch The Getaway Weeekend and meet a LOT of the regulars in here , then head back West ?
Just wish I could get back over A S A P

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 05:57 PM

What a lovely idea, Terry.....only problem.....I am not taking any more flights than I have to. Bad enough that it's such a long flight from Oz to anywhere else in the world; I will fly to Canada, and fly home, and that's the extent of it. I'm not phobic about flying but I do like to have my feets firmly planted on the ground beneath me.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 06:49 AM

Well - it's decided. Plans are in the hands of travel agent, just getting fine-tuned, as we speak. We will fly to Toronto via Vancouver in October (just after Thanksgiving) and spend some time there with son and his girlfriend, we have also been invited to their friends' wedding which is nice. Then hire a car and tour around some of Ontario and perhaps stray into Quebec for a wee while, including spending some time in North Bay with our friends who will have moved there by then. Then drive back to TO and fly to Victoria, BC, for a week before flying that long trip home. We'll be away for 5-6 weeks.

Unfortunately the timing means we will miss Acoustic Harvest, but hopefully we can catch some music somewhere.

Doubly unfortunately, we won't be going to or through Blind River - so won't get to meet Shane. I am devastated.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 08:51 AM

No Maritime Provinces? Is your trip still planned for October?
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 12 - 02:15 PM

Well, at least you aren't spending time in The West between ONT and BC. If you want to see it, I can draw you a pic. Here ya go...

____________________________________________________________________

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 14 Mar 12 - 07:03 AM

Still planned for October, because we will be attending a wedding - we can't really ask the happy couple to change dates just for us. Besides, fall colours are so beautiful - ours here are pale shadows by comparison.

Gee, thanks, gnu.....no hills anywhere? Not even a tiny bump?

Cheers (eh)
JennieG