BS: Native American's had African slaves???

Subject: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:31 PM

I did not know that.

Sorry. It just seems kinda odd to me. I know that they had slaves within their own culture, as I was taught that in my early schooling. The part about the homosexual slaves was not taught at an early age, of course. But, I didn't know they participated in the slave trade from Africa... purchasing slaves??? This is a part of history I had NO idea existed.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:37 PM

Well, yes, they did. Many Cherokees also fought for the Confederacy (and other for the Union). Slaves were also held by Indians on the Northwest Coasts of the US and Canada, although these were other Indians.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:43 PM

The slaves up around here did not fare well..I am hesitating to say what they were used for and will not..it is just too gruesome. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:48 PM

Yes, I know, mg.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:56 PM

I don't. Where is "here" mg?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:04 PM

This subject has been discussed before, but I don't know the thread title. A bit of searching should dig it out.
Don't recall now, but I think one or two of the other tribes from the east also had slaves.

As posted by Rapparee, add that when the Cherokee were moved to what is now Oklahoma, they brought their slaves with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:05 PM

Yes, Q. That was in my link.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:57 PM

Please combine threads

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 07:06 PM

If you mean THIS ONE, I think it is of sufficient length and age, we don't need to combine.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 07:12 PM

I should be combined. I dunno why my search came up empty.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: maeve
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM

gnu heading to the combine.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 07:40 PM

mg is in the Pacific NW. Tribes held slaves from other tribes, they were property and could be killed. At a park where I worked (San Juan Island NHP) there was an archeological excavation in an area established as a tribal middens. When bone turned up in core samples it was assumed that the bodies were slaves, because they were in the middens instead of buried in another more suitable way.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 08:44 PM

William Faulkner's story "Red Leaves" is about a Chickasaw village and its Black slaves. The chief has just died and his valet runs away in a futile attempt to avoid being sacrificed as "grave goods" like his master's horse and dog. Faulkner's recurring character Sam Fathers is the son of a Chickasaw father and a slave mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

Not only that, there were some free African Americans who owned black slaves too.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:17 AM

The most eye-opening part of that link is not the slave holding by the Indians, but the sheer range of self-satisfied ignorance displayed by the commenters beneath. It is scarey to find oneself sharing the planet with some of them.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: bubblyrat
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:49 AM

They had White slaves , too ; I know that , because I saw the film " A Man Called Horse" , so it must be true .

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:47 AM

Well, the Neo-Confederate movement is growing by leaps and bounds. Pretty soon they'll be posting here that slavery is a "positive good", just like its apologists in the antebellum South.

Hello, George Santayana.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:29 AM

An interesting bit of history, but not that significant in the way Greg F seems to think.

Native Americans took on a lot of other aspects of the culture and economy of the invaders, as normally happens in that kind of situation. Why shouldn't that be expected?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:45 AM

Not to suggest that whites and non-whites could possibly be equally loathsome when put to the test....

"Slavery...perfectly legal...ultra-cheap labor...other people have 'em...it's in the bible too...hmmmmmm...."

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:54 AM

...but not that significant in the way Greg F seems to think.

And in what way do you think I seem to think, pray tell?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:01 AM

Black Africans were preferred as slaves in early Colonial Americas (over white indentured servants, etc.) because of their resistance to malaria and other debilitating fevers. Whites usually spent their first year in the southern colonies too sick to begin to pay back their indebtedness for the passage, etc.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:19 AM

My impression was that Greg was suspicious that talk about how some Native Americans were involved with slave owning might somehow serve to imply that this was less vile an institution.

That'd be a bit like saying that since other people were antisemitic that made the Nazis look a bit better.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:30 AM

I had no idea about this either, how did they treat their slaves in comparison?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM

If ya google

Slavery in Canada

you will find two Wiki articles that are accurate. Remember that slavery was not stopped by the British until the very early 1800s (1807?). It seems abhorant to any thinkiong person these days, but it was just a fact of life in the 1700s and earlier. These days, slavery if in an economic form, and that is an insidious form of it. Not much has changed in that regard. imo

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:56 AM

And slavery wasn't abolished in multiethnic, third-world Brazil till 1885.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:23 AM

""Despite the Buddha's teachings, slavery has existed in all Buddhist countries, as it has everywhere else in the world"".
   
""Slavery is an institution wherein a person is legally owned by others and forced to work for them. Slaves (dâsa), like other property, can be bought, sold and mortgaged. There were five types of slaves in ancient India; those born to enslaved mothers, those purchased, those who voluntarily became slaves, e.g. to escape starvation during times of famine, those who became slaves out of fear and those captured in raids (Ja.VI,285; Vin.IV,224). The lot of slaves was a hard one; for the smallest mistake they could be flogged, put in chains, branded or fed scraps (Ja.I451). We read of a woman severely beating her slave girl for getting up late (M.I,125).
The Buddha said that the buying and selling of human beings is a wrong means of livelihood for lay people (A.III,207) and he forbade monks and nuns to accept gifts of slaves or to own them (D.I,5). These teachings seem to be the oldest known prohibition against slavery. Some centuries later, the Mahâvastu condemned slavery, saying that those 'who enslave beings who are without protection or refuge'will be reborn in purgatory. The Upâsakaúîla Sûtra (3rd cent. CE?) says a lay man should neither buy nor sell slaves nor sell his wives and children into slavery, something husbands sometimes did when in debt or during hard times.
Despite such teachings, slavery has existed in all Buddhist countries, as it has everywhere else in the world. When it was abolished in Buddhist lands, this was done by the colonial powers – in Sri Lanka in the 1820's and in Burma, Laos and Cambodia at the end of the 19th century – and in Thailand due to pressure from Western governments in 1905. The last Buddhist country to abolish slavery was Bhutan in 1962. The last country in the world to abolish it was Mauritania in 1980, although in reality slavery continues to exist there and in parts of the Middle East.""

buddhism and slavery

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:27 AM

Slavery as such was just one aspect of the system as it developed in what became the United States. There have been many societies in which some form of slavery existed.

What was peculiar to the United States was the extent to which it was founded on and underpinned racism, so that slaves were seen as a different and inferior species, rather than as fellow human beings whose luck in life had been less fortunate.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM

If you get a chance, look up the

Neutral Hills, Alberta

The Cree and Blackfoot were not friends. In fact, they made war on each other. Our notion of warfare amongst indigenous peoples is somewhat skewed by our present-day understandings of warfare. If we look at the Sioux and the Crow, what we can see is that one had to be careful how much actual killing went on. Death counts were much lower partly because it led to families within tribes getting into a Hatfields/McCoy mind set and the difficulties never went away. It is exemplified the Blackfoot/Cree dislike of each other. The Neutral Hills was decided to be neutral because both groups (Plains Cree in this case) agreed to have the Hills as a mutual hunting area and warfare was disallowed there by both groups.

People tend to think--through no fault of their own--that an Indian is an Indian. Not so. This excellent site (google)

Browse List of Tribes

will give the reader a basic understanding that there are LOTS of First Nations groups, some decided by linguistic variations and others by history or geographic location. The practise of keeping slaves--for the slaves--waS better than the alternative. Often, slaves were accepted into the tribes and were allowed to marry and have children. Interesting to note that when the Sioux first saw 'buffalo soldiers' they called them the dark/brown white men.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:59 AM

I would point out that the issue of homosexuality is not the big deal it is in White society. They had no religious strictures against it, and subsequently those peoples who were able to escape the influence of Catholicism, Anglicanism or Methodism have no hatred of homosexuals, or at least it seems so to me. I lived amongst native peoples for five years, and my sister's family is half/half Ojibwa/White. Bottom line is this: if you're nice to them they will be nice to you. Nothin' new about that idea, but it's a thought that on occasion escapes some folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:22 PM

Aztec Slavery

""Slavery was common and an important institution in Aztecs culture. It was different than the modern concept of slavery. It was not racially based nor was it a permanent condition. There were various ways a individual became a slave: 1) being captured in war, 2) committing certain crimes, especially theft, and by 3) voluntarily entering into slavery because od debts, or 4) being sold by one's parents again primarily because of debts. Vast numbers of prisoners taken by the Aztecs in war were used for human sacrifices. There are accounts of such sacrifices on a vast scale. Others were spared and enslaved for labor. The Aztecs ececuted major building programs for roads and aqueducts as well as temples and other buildings in Tenochtitlán. Not a great deal is known about the numbers of captives that the Aztecs spared for slavery or about the conditions of servitude and ultimate disposition. Captives who had a useful trade were the most likely to be spared sacrifice. Nor do we know much about the captives taken and the extent to which children were enslaved. It was not just foreign tribes that were enslaved. We know that some Aztecs sold themselves or their children into slavery to settle debts. This parctice played a role in the demise of the Aztecs. Tha Aztec skave girl Malinche became a key adviser and confident to Cortez. Aztec slavery is, however, apparently not forgotten. A law firm in Oaxaca, Mexico in 2002 announced plans to file a lawsuit against Mexico City municipal government seeking reparations for the Aztec use of slave labor. The lawsuit claims slaves captured by the Aztec ruler Ahuitzotl as a result of military operations in Oaxaca during the late 15th century built the foundations for Mexico City. The suit claims that the ancestors of those slaves should now be compensated. A Mexico City Municipal Counsel Emilio Montalban did not take the suit to seriously, telling a reporter that the plaintiffs "ought to be joyous," to know their ancestors did not have their living hearts cut from their chests, which was the fate of many of the human sacrifices."" [Smeed]


Sources
Smeed, Dover. "Reparations Sought For Descendants of Aztec Slavery," CNSNews.com, March 26, 2002.

Boys' Historical Clothing: (Its worth looking around other sections of this somewhat odd site).

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:25 PM

The history of Native Americans is fascinating and should be studdied and enjoyed by more people.

That includes a certain Irish/Brit who comes here only the spew venom at White Americans. He is profoundly ignorant and does not intend to deal in facts even if they are offered to him. There is really no place here for such an old closed mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:56 PM

If that meant me, you've got me completely wrong, pdq.

And I didn't say or imply anything antagonistic to "White Americans" in commenting on the strange system of racist chattel slavery which was developed by British settlers in North America,initially under British rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 02:16 PM

McRath the Hollow, go read a few books on the subject before continuing your snarkey Anti-American comments. We have to listen to them every day.

The Modern Slave Trade was started while the Iberian Peninsula was still occupied by the Muslin invasion force from northern Africa.

The Muslims practice of slave trading was adopted by the Spanish and Portugese and was part of their plan to develople the New World even though they did not have enough of their own people to do the work. They thought that slaves would make Spain a world powerhouse.

More tha 85% of the Africans transported to the New World were brought by the Spainish and Portugese. France got in on the act with places like Haiti and French Guyana. The British got into the business late, were minor players and got out relativele early.

The majority of Blacks now living in the US have not a single ancestor who was a slave in this country. They came here later because of the better living conditions they had known in places like the Carribean.

Canada sees that same migration now, as 70% of all Blacks living in Canada were born elsewhere, mostly Jamaica.

The first US slaves were in the area we now call the state of Florida, then claimed and occupied by Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 02:48 PM

McGrath... 'Native Americans took on a lot of other aspects of the culture and economy of the invaders, as normally happens in that kind of situation. Why shouldn't that be expected??"

Native NAs had slaves LONG before they were "invaded" (wich is bullshit, in a way, but that's an entirely different discussion). My point was that *I* did not know they purcahsed African slaves.

One of my native buddies told me of the practice of placing toys and tools in front of a young male child in a rite. On one side, those of a woman, and on the other, those of a man. If the lad chose one from the female side, he could be purchased or awarded to a man as a slave both for labour and sex. That was LONG before whitey arrived. Slavery was common practice among many native NA tribes. Look up the term "berdache".

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:14 PM

Slave systems vary. The particular version of chattel slavery that developed in British North America was different in a number of ways from the way slavery operated in Latin America,or in the Arab world, in Africa, or in the Roman Empire or Greek Republics.

Different societies, including highly developed societies, come up with different social inventions. Sometimes they aren't very pleasant. Sometimes they are wonderful.

I cannot see that there is absolutely nothing resembling a "snarkey Anti-American comment" in saying that. It's not intended to, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:20 PM

Beats me why they've both got their knickers in a twist, Kevin, but its pretty much a permanent condition for PeeDee, whatever the point under discussion...

As a card-carrying USAsian, I don't see anything approaching an anti-American comment -snarky or otherwise- in anything you've written above.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:21 PM

"...before they were "invaded" (wich is bullshit, in a way, but that's an entirely different discussion)."

In the same way that referring to "the Saxon invasion of Britain" would be "bullshit", gnu? In itself it's a fairly neutral term. One set of people move in and take over a place where another set of people had been living, in face of opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:32 PM

McGrath... ahhhh, that's ANOTHER discussion. Didn't I mention that? Oh, yeah, I see it in your quote of my post. Start a thread if you want but changing the subject here does not support your sniping about native NAs being "taught" slavery by Whitey... does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:35 PM

The Modern Slave Trade was started while the Iberian Peninsula was still occupied by the Muslin invasion force from northern Africa.

Oxymoron.

The Muslims practice of slave trading ...

DAMNATION! Another Islamofascist abomination!

More tha 85% of the Africans transported to the New World were brought by the Spainish and Portugese.

The "New World" is not under discussion, PeeDee, but the United States.

The majority of Blacks now living in the US have not a single ancestor who was a slave in this country.

Source? Seems a rather idiotic assertion which assumes that the later arrivals didn't intermarry with the descendants of slaves.

But even if true - which is doubtful,that leaves a good 20 million plus who DID have a slave ancestor.

The first US[sic] slaves were in the area we now call the state of Florida, then claimed and occupied by Spain.

So what? Your point is...???

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:38 PM

And if the first slaves in [the territory that became] the U.S. were spanish ones, that sort of puts paid to the existence of slavery among Indigenous Peoples, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:55 PM

I don't think anyone here thinks that any kind of slave system is a good idea, so what is there to argue about?

Always room for a discussion or an exchange of differing views, but "sniping" and "Whitey" and "snarkey"...

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: meself
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:47 PM

Seems to be that time of the month ....

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:48 PM

McGrath... "'Native Americans took on a lot of other aspects of the culture and economy of the invaders, as normally happens in that kind of situation. Why shouldn't that be expected??"

Explain how that isn't sniping and snarkey.

As for "Whitey", do not imply that I said you said "Whitey". *I* ALONE used that term and *I* see NOTHING wrong with using that term. I am a Whitey. I am white. Unless we are talking religion... then I am Black Irish Cat'lic.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:00 PM

Explain why it isn't sniping and sarkey? Might as well try explaining why it isn't demotic Urdu...

I was thinking about stuff like using horses in farming or subsequently tractors, or wearing jeans. People pick up ways of doing things from they people they encounter. Went both ways - the settlers learnt about growing maize.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:03 PM

If McRath the Hollow is so incensed about slave trade in other countries, why does he/she/it make it a full-time job sniping at and trashing Americans and British?

Let's see some truly indignant posts trashing the Sudanese, the Aztecs or the Egyptians over slavery. Oh, I know why. McG the H doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground about those subjects either.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:24 PM

Why on earth are you getting so irate, pdq? Or would "incensed" be a better word.

You don't like slavery,I don't like slavery. Nobody here likes slavery. Anywhere.

Not to worry.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:41 PM

History shows that slavery, in one form or another, was practiced in history (recent or ancient) by most cultures. Thankfully, it is a taboo in most societies today (though underground slavery still exists).

So, I am puzzled at why the focus of this thread is on NA native peoples, either before settlers arrived or before? If it is a search for knowledge, I am fine with that. But, I trust that there are not other reasons for bringing this up?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:07 PM

Rave on, PeeDee - just digging yourself a deeper hole.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:27 PM

McGrath... nice try. Pffff

Ed.... it is a search... if you read the OP. I posted the OP because I had never heard that before. I thought I made that clear???

Perhaps I should leave this thread before I get more shite shoved on me for no fucking reason. Jaysus!

That's a load of conjecture-perceived bullshit that was never inteneded for even one fucking minute! Why the fuck are any of you on about shit I never said or even implied? Are you all fucked up on weird drugs fer Chissakes?

Breathe in thru the nose and out thru the mouth... calm... calm... calm... don't reach for that cigarette.

Now that I am calm, what the fuck are youse on about? Read my posts. Read my lips.... and don't put words in my mouth or even insinuate such.

gnightgnu... I can't be bothered with yer horseshit. It just seems to be a game with some of you when you can't hold a logical and intelligent conversation or be civilized when you fuck up. I fuck up. I apologize. And I give credit to those that help me see my errors. Some of youse should learn... sigh... yet agian... why bother? To repeat... gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:42 PM

What the hell are you sayin' gnight for? It's 5:33 pm your time!

Dammit, just one thread that don't turn to    before the 50th post. I know lots of bad words in three languages: , , , , , and   .
Stop pissin' off my buddy from down east. Fanculo tutti (nothing personal), and I don't mean ice cream.

Anyway, back to the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:55 PM

Gnu,
If you "clearly" read my post you will see that I said that "If it is a search for knowledge, I am fine with that". You said it was, so no more needed to be said (your initial post and content was not as clear to me as you state, so I asked).

Condidering there has been other underlying reasons for bringing up NA native issues in earlier discussions, IMO, it is a reasonable question to ask.

As to the spirited (but limited) discussion, mix historic slavery, issues related to a minority culture who now have special status within a nation, and add "a suggestion" of homosexuality into the mix, I wonder what type of thread discussion one could expect to evolve?

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:00 AM

People tend to describe historical figures as either goodies or baddies. When I was a little girl, Indians were the baddies. They attacked the settlers, scalped them and burned their log cabins.

Now, they're the goodies, wise, kind and spiritual. Both views are rubbish.

They're people. Sometimes people do good things. Sometimes they do perfectly horrible things.

Some tribes owned slaves. Different tribes treated their slaves differently. The Seminole chief Juan Cabaillo was the son of an African slave. The Cherokee weren't so open minded.

"A Man Called Horse" is a good movie. It shows a very accurate picture of life among the plains tribes. "Return Of A Man Called Horse" is also very good.

Interestingly, the tribes are now taking a strong interest in how they are portrayed in movies.

When the Indian Removal Act was passed, many of the Cherokee owned large farms. They had a sophisticated tribal government. They had their own alphabet, created by Sequoia. The published a newspaper. When the act was passed, they sued and took their case to the Supreme Court of the United States, who found in their favor. Andrew Jackson then said, "The Supreme Court has made their decision, now let them enforce it."

I was always happy George W. never knew about that.

I will be going, I hope, to visit the Eastern Band Cherokee, in North Carolina with my friend Deborah Harding, who is responsible for recreating the art of featherweaving and teaching it to the Cherokee ladies.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:22 AM

The Chamorros of the Marianas Islands might have had slaves. archaeologists and anthropologists have not decided yet. When Magellan stumbled over the islands in 1521 there were two classes and one caste in the society here.

The matua were the upper class and the achaote were the lower class and included the children of the matua. Then there were the matachang who seem to have been a separate caste. No interrelationship was allowed between the upper two classes and the matachang. The two who ignored that were put to death. The matachang were not allowed to fish in the sea but could only eat freshwater fish and shellfish. They had to work for the achaote and matua and were required to bow very low when they encountered a matua and say something to the effect of "May I wash your feet?"

There are two theories. One is that the matachang were an earlier group who were on the island before the Chamorro came along. Supposedly the Chamorros conquered them.

The other theory is that they were slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: pdq
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM

Aztec Slavery

Slavery was common and an important institution in Aztecs culture. It was different than the modern concept of slavery. It was not racially based nor was it a permanent condition.

There were various ways a individual became a slave: 1) being captured in war, 2) committing certain crimes, especially theft, and by 3) voluntarily entering into slavery because od debts, or 4) being sold by one's parents again primarily because of debts.

Vast numbers of prisoners taken by the Aztecs in war were used for human sacrifices. There are accounts of such sacrifices on a vast scale. Others were spared and enslaved for labor. The Aztecs ececuted major building programs for roads and aqueducts as well as temples and other buildings in Tenochtitlán. Not a great deal is known about the numbers of captives that the Aztecs spared for slavery or about the conditions of servitude and ultimate disposition. Captives who had a useful trade were the most likely to be spared sacrifice. Nor do we know much about the captives taken and the extent to which children were enslaved. It was not just foreign tribes that were enslaved. We know that some Aztecs sold themselves or their children into slavery to settle debts. This parctice played a role in the demise of the Aztecs. Tha Aztec slave girl Malinche became a key adviser and confident to Cortez. Aztec slavery is, however, apparently not forgotten.

A law firm in Oaxaca, Mexico in 2002 announced plans to file a lawsuit against Mexico City municipal government seeking reparations for the Aztec use of slave labor. The lawsuit claims slaves captured by the Aztec ruler Ahuitzotl as a result of military operations in Oaxaca during the late 15th century built the foundations for Mexico City. The suit claims that the ancestors of those slaves should now be compensated. A Mexico City Municipal Counsel Emilio Montalban did not take the suit to seriously, telling a reporter that the plaintiffs "ought to be joyous," to know their ancestors did not have their living hearts cut from their chests, which was the fate of many of the human sacrifices. [Smeed]

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 09:11 PM

The Aleut/Unangan and Tlingit of Alaska certainly did have slaves, but I don't know about African slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 09:29 PM

Cherokee and others of the Five Civilized Tribes held African slaves (discussed in other threads). The Cherokee took slaves with them to Oklahoma Terr. Recently there was some controversy as they voted to exclude the Freedmen (the Blacks freed after Emancipation) from tribal rights.

See post by Katlaughing, 24 Aug 11, for link to thread on this topic..

Subject: RE: BS: Native American's had African slaves???
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 08:25 AM

interestingly, on the general topic of Native Americans/American Indians/preferred generic term for indigenous peoples of North, Central and South America- my friend (from Northern Mexico) told me about something he found on the Internet which talks about the similarities between pre-Columbian Mayan culture and ancient Chinese culture. There's a 7th century Chinese account from a Buddhist missionary called Hoei Shin or Hui Shin of a country he'd been to, east of Siberia, which matches descriptions of ancient Mexico, with a few snags (probably due to distortion of what he actually saw, or based on stories he might have heard from people he met).