BS: U.S. expats and the IRS

Subject: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:29 AM

Any U.S. expats here on the Madcat? Have you filed your U.S. tax yet? Yesterday was the deadline.

A new push by the IRS to penalize American citizens who did not file tax returns, even if they owed no money, and did not disclose their assets is stirring up a lot of fear and consternation.

A friend of mine here in Canada is one of those that moved here whith his parents when he was 10 yrs old. He is now in his 50's and never has made any income in the U.S. and owes no tax, but regardless he is obligated by U.S. law to file for tax. This is causing him a lot of grief.

Another lunatic law by the U.S. .... increasing the size of the bureaucratic army to chase for pennies.

U.S expats tax

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 11:25 AM

Hmmm. I'm an exexpat, and this doesn't sound fun.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:40 PM

Why are they not Canucks?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:43 PM

Did is parents come as landed immigrants or illegally?
If legal, and his parent(s) took out citizenship, his story is nonsense.

I came as a landed immigrant, took citizenship, and only have to cuss at the Canadian tax service.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: John P
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:44 PM

Do ex-pat citizens get to vote? If so, I don't mind them being made to file a tax return. If not, it's just stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 04:57 PM

This is unknown to me.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:36 PM

They should have applied for and taken out Canadian citizenship by now.
Once they have their Canadian citizenship, and their income is Canadian, they are no longer subject to U.S. tax.

When I came, I was not sure that my job might not place me back in the U.S. so I filed the forms but paid no tax in the U.S. since I had been accepted as an immigrant and my income was Canadian.
As soon as I had citizenship, the U.S. had no further tax hold on me.

Any problems are with people who have not regularized their status.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: fretless
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:42 PM

Expat (i.e. US citizen living outside the US) gets to vote in US presidential elections, even if no residence is retained in US (and therefore has no basis for voting in local elections or elections that select regional representatives, including Congressional reps and senators).

There is some question as to how well those ballots are counted, but that's another story.

But citizen privileges and responsibilities, including filing for taxes, are retained.

By the way, lots of municipalities in US have similar tax rules. In New York City, when I lived and worked there from the 1970s into the early 1990s, if you maintained an unincorporated business you had to register with the city and file even if your earnings were below the threshold that triggered tax payments. And the penalties for nonfiling, which were substantial, applied regardless of how much you earned or owed. Much the same where I am currently in Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM

Yes .... his parents came as legal citizens.

"Once they have their Canadian citizenship, and their income is Canadian, they are no longer subject to U.S. tax." .... not true

The story is not nonsense. We also have friends in Toronto who came up in the 70's when they were in their 20's. They have lived here, worked here, paid their Canadian taxes. Never took a cent in U.S. income or investments. Five years ago they proudly became Canadian citizens but did not renounce their U.S. citizenship. They too have to file for U.S. taxes. They too are not happy.

My friend is also a Canadian citizen .... dual citizenship .... it doesn't matter .... if you hold U.S. citizenship you still have to apply.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 07:57 PM

If you hold dual citizenship ... Canadian, or whatever and still retain your U.S. citizneship the U.S. will consider you only as a U.S. citizen ... they will not give a rat's ass whatever other citizenship you hold.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 07:59 PM

correction .... "Yes .... his parents came as legal citizens." .... should be ... Yes .... his parents came to Canada as legal immigrants from the U.S..

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:04 PM

So, in saying .... some more of my ranting on here .... if any U.S. Madcatters hold dual citizenship in whatever country you are living ... have not earned U.S. income, have not made any income from U.S. investments .. you had until yesterday to file U.S income tax for the last 4 years ... if you don't do so you are open for some heavy fines.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:05 PM

How does one renounce US citizenship?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:02 PM

When you take the oath to the Queen at the citizenship ceremony, you are a Canadian citizen. The U.S. may continue to regard you as a U.S. citizen, but they cannot collect taxes on income gained in Canada or under Canadian law after you have become a citizen. When you cross the border with your Canadian passport, there wil be no trouble UNLESS you owe taxes incurred before you became a Canadian citizen or have committed a criminal act on U.S. soil.
Children of Americans who have taken Canadian citizenship, if they were born in the U.S., may file for U.S. citizenship upon reaching maturity. Canadians tend to call this "dual citizenship," but the U.S. does not recognize that it exists.

Did your friends just "come" and live in Canada from the 1970s until 2005 or thereabouts- 25 years or so without doing anything about their citizenship? Twenty-five years without declaring income in their country of legal residence, which the U.S. rightly regards as U.S.?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:16 PM

Wrong Q .... if you have Canadian citizenship and U.S. citizenship you and have not made any income via work or pension investments you still have to file with the IRS for the last 4 years .... if you fall into that category I suggest you consult a lawyer now who knows U.S. tax laws.

U.S. tax crackdown hits Canadian residents

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:26 PM

I'm not trying to bring up any moral issues about why or why not someone who has lived in Canada for the past 25 years and decided to become a citizen only 5 years agos (regardless, they are Canadian citizens still holding U.S. citizenship) ... what I'm trying to say is there are new moves by the IRS to go out after any U.S. citizen who holds dual citizenship, or who has U.S. citizenship and has lived in another country for most of their lives and never earned a dime either through work, or investments from the U.S. must as of yesterday (08/31/2011) filed the past 4 years to the IRS ... if they don't they could now have some complicated issues with the U.S.

Whew .... get it ??

again .... if any Madcatter falls into the above category you should now consult a lawyer familiar with U.S. tax laws

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: MarkS
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:19 PM

Gnu
Far as I know you visit the local conuslar office in your country of residence, fill out some paperwork, say the words, and turn in your passport.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:37 PM

There will probably be a flood of expats doing that in the next while .... problem is the IRS will be right on your trail out of suspicion .... I should also add if you are in that situation and renounce your U.S. citizenship at this time you still have to file for the last 4 years as you were still a U.S. citizen.

They want bank statements and detailed statements on you investments. A rather complicated affair if you are unfamiliar with U.S. tax filings My friend gave up last weekend trying to do it on his own ... has now consulted a lawyer at a cost of around 1 grand. Our friends in Toronto have also gone with a lawyer. These people, who are Canadian citizens have never earned a penny in U.S.or income in their lives or for the last 40 years. They do not have any U.S. pension income and have not made any money from U.S. investments and do not hold any property in the U.S. .... they held on to their U.S. citizenship out of some patriotic feeling but now realize that citizenship is a curse.

I suspect this is just a money grab by the U.S. ... going after your Canadian RRSP retirement funds ... rather stupid as it is going after pennies of the working guy expat while spending $millions's in the effort.

biLL ... oh well, thought I'd just bring this to your attention ... enuf of my 2 bit rambling here.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 10:49 PM

Kind of a bitch on the tourist coin, no? Doesn't sound very well thought out. What are they gonna do? Put seniors they catch down south in jail down south until they pay up? And, like sIx says... for some, there is nothing to pay. Perhaps I just don't understand it fully???

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 05:22 AM

It is a sometimes unfortunate factor in US law that the laws must treat everybody the same.

It is also a fact that a substantial number of very wealthy people EVADE US taxes by exceedingly questionable claims of expat status.

The ones for whom $1,000 in attorney fees are necessary to avoid penalties for filing required forms that would have been a fairly simple "formality" if done at the appropriate time aren't really the targets, but unfortunately for them the "equal treatment" principle requires that they bring things up to date.

The real targets are the ones who live elsewhere, and receive their US income or income from US corporations' sites where they live, and evade the US taxes by claiming to be something other than what they are - or what they would be absent their phony evasions. And estimated evasions of this kind run into the hundreds of millions in (US) dollars each year.

Ignoring the rules one is responsible for knowing over long periods of time quite frequently results in inconveniences. It's "just one of those things."

John

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. expats and the IRS
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 12:11 PM

Q ..... so, have you filed your U.S. tax forms yet. The deadline is tomorrow .... I assume you still are a U.S. citizen even though are a Canadian citizen.

This issue was featured on a CBC radio show today.

Apparently there are many people who live in Canada and whold U.S. citizenship who are totally unaware of this. Probably the same for all U.S. expats and such living in other countries.

biLL