BS: Shelf life of canned goods

Subject: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:16 PM

So, Mum asked me to check the dates on some cans of grub in her basement. No dates on some, some dates expired. As I "didtrust" a lot of dates on various products, I have been searching the internut for info on the (no) dates and have found a number of interesting takes, but this, from a post to a discussion site, takes the can...

"Totally boring historical note (but interesting to me). When the Franklin expedition to find the northwest passage disappeared in 1851, no one seemed willing to go look for them. Finally, a doctor in Upper Canada make the trek--he walked there. He finally found evidence, and it eventually turned out that the survivors of the expedition, with Cerebrus and Terror locked in the ice, had put supplied in long boats, and dragged them across the ice and the tundra. Two problems: instead of heading for York Factory on Hudson's Bay, the nearest outpost, they were headed for Montreal ! ? ! ? ! Additionally, they filled the long boats with china, glassware, window panes (!--absolutely true), window sashes, napkins, changes of dress uniforms--but not food and weapons for hunting. It has since been opined that they were suffering from chronic lead poisoning from the lead solder used to seal the canned goods they ate. In the early 1980's, some Canadian anthropologists dug up the grave of a young marine who was one of the first to die. He showed the signs of advance, chronic, low-grade lead poisoning. Even more interesting, Custer's Seventh Cavalry was eating canned goods at the time of its destruction, as well. The cans they used were also sealed with lead. Digs on the "Little Bighorn" battlefield have revealed remains of troopers with signs of chronic, low-grade lead poisoning. The main sign of chronic lead poisoning is dementia. Consider Custer's last message to Benteen: "Have the Indian village in sight, have the hostiles on the run, come on with the trains." Any man with 250 or so troopers surrounded by several thousands hostiles who thinks he "has them on the run" is more than a little demented."

Coool eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:25 PM

Here's the best one I have found yet...

All preservatives must be listed on the label. In canned foods, preservatives are used to maintain quality. The canning process keeps it safe. If a product is correctly processed, it should remain safe until opened or the seal is broken. The U.S. Army has found that canned meats, vegetables and jam were in "excellent states of preservation" after 46 years. However, long storage is not recommended. For high quality (versus safety), the broadest guideline given by the U.S.D.A. is to use high-acid canned food (fruits, tomatoes and pickled products) in 18 to 24 months, and low-acid (meats and vegetables) in two to five years.

Information developed by Carolyn Rude, Retired WSU Extension Faculty - Family Living
March 1997

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:51 PM

Botulism?

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Maryrrf
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 01:58 PM

Commercially canned foods will probably last indefinitely as long as the cans aren't dented, bulging, or otherwise look funny, but I think I'd get rid of anything with either an expired date or an illegible date if the can looked "old". "When in doubt, throw it out" is a good motto, and most canned vegetables aren't that expensive to replace.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:19 PM

They are when the prices have more than tripled in 18 months and when you bought a whack of em becasue you knew prices were gonna go crazy.

Having said that, canned veggies are REAL cheap right now because the producers are trying to make room for the harvest... 284ml (10 oz fer you laggers) tins of veggies are 41 2/3 cents here today. If I was to buy any, it would be for use in a year from now.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM

We found some old puffed-up canned goods at my Dad's house when we cleaned his estate. Things he'd lost track of. I tossed a can of tomatoes the other day that hadn't been here that long but looked suspiciously like it was puffing up. As was said before, "when in doubt, throw it out."

I was at an estate sale I stumbled upon earlier today and found 20-year-old peach preserves on a closet shelf. Did not look appetizing.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 03:11 PM

Estimates are that canned goods lose 5-20 percent of their nutritional value each year, and recommendations are that canned foods should be used up within a year.
The higher the storage temperature, the shorter the shelf life.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

I used to work at Stokley-Van Camp's cannery and warehouse, and I did inventory there for a year. The dates were coded, but not complicated and I had to read them. Most canned goods were shipped within a year, but some had dates 2-3 years old. Very occasionally, I saw some older on items that didn't sell as well. The oldest I ever saw that were unspoiled was 6 years...(little potatoes, I think) Most fruits and veggies and meat products were shipped before they were a year old.

In a warehouse, you saw every imaginable form of damage and spoilage, mostly from dented cans. (There was a salvage room where dented, but not 'ruined' cans were collected and sold to employees for about ¼ price.)

The worst problem by far was pineapple. It's juices are caustic, and needed a can with a special lining. If they were dented, it was quite common to see them leak and make a mess. One bad can could mess up a case if not caught.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:27 PM

I sent my nephew some C-rations that were packaged in 1970. The blackberry jam had oozed out around the edge of the can, but the rest were in fine shape. Oh, the accessory package (matches, toilet paper, cigarettes, gum, instant coffee and such-like) was pretty well dried out, but that was packaged and not canned.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:46 PM

That reminds me... somewhere I have some C-ration Peach jam that's been around for 30 years that I know of. I haven't looked at the little can in ages... gotta go see if I remember where it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:21 PM

Bill D if you can't find your tin of peach jam I can go see about picking up a jar of those 20-year-old preserves if you'd like.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 09:43 AM

"Shelf life of canned goods"

The shelf life of canned goods can be measured in hundreds of years. The difficulty starts when ya take 'em off the shelf and open them. imo

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:22 AM

One may want to consider a number of factors.

Some factors:

What the goods inside are? I suspect some types of material store better and longer than others.

When the material was packaged. Companies stamp codes on cans. The information includes when (date and shift) and where (plant) the material was packed and in somecases the shelf life. The code sequence is different by opacker, and is mostly intended for food inspectors. The cans may be already be old when you purchase them (depending on the retail outlet).

Condition of the cans. Most importantly the vacumn, the condition of the can seams and shape of the can (avoid dented and misshapen cans, especially dents near seams)is important, as it can indicate bacterial growth inside from improper processing or seam breakage.

Most canned goods are steam heated (retorted)which kills any bacteria (anchovies is one example of a product that is not retorted, and must be cold stored). Retorting, acids in the material being stored and age can break down the plastic can coating, exposing you to higher amounts of Bisphenol-A.

On Codes:

""Individual companies make up their own codes to be stamped on the tops of cans and jars. I finally got disgusted enough trying to decipher them when doing research for my book that I called a few big food corporations and asked "what's up?" with these coding systems. Carnation Foods was one and deciphered their evaporated milk stamps--example: 4145MC 202S. The only thing important to us lies in the first four digits. The 4 stands for 1994, the year the milk was packed. The 14 represents the 14th day of...the 5, the 5th month, May of the year. This can was packed May 14, 1994, well past their recommended shelf life. The rest of the letters and digits represent plant and lot numbers as I recall.

Now let's make things more confusing: A can of store brand cranberry sauce is stamped NOV 98 MO 652. This firm stamps the pull date, or date after which they can't guarantee top quality. Much more direct for our purposes. A jar of mustard, another company: 696270 Packed June of 96 and should have a shelf life of at least 2 years if packed in a cool dark place. Remember this is a glass jar, not an acid-sensitive tin can. More on that in a minute. A jar of tomato sauce, not a can: OCT98 1003....etc. Bless them, too, an easily read code that suggests it's at top condition until Oct. of '98 if kept in good storage conditions.

In a nutshell, my observations have been that more and more mfrs. are beginning to use more user-friendly codes, but the funny business still persists for many. On such cans, like the evap. milk, read the can label carefully to locate a consumer hotline or customer service no. Call it and ask for a translation and then register your dissatisfaction with their coding system. Tell them you and your food storing friends won't be able to buy their products if you are to be kept in the dark concerning expiration dates, etc. They WILL listen. BTW, my discussions with Carnation disclosed that the grocery store, a large, reputable chain, had sold me evap. milk two years beyond the recommended storage date! Carnation called the store to tell them to pull it off the shelves and then sent me two coupons for free cans for the ones bought past date..."" (Shelf Life of Some Common Storage Foods-Geri Guidetti).






Canned foods


Bacteriological Analytical Manual-canned foods

How Long Will It Last


Canned Goods and Bisphenol-A

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:50 PM

We rec'd a vanload of "expired" cans from freinds who movced in a hurry who had bought a lot of good organic stuff in bulk to stock up for soups to make and freeze..... I researched the dangers pretty thoroughly. The fruits were fine and the beans were heavenly, but the evaporated milk had separated and discolored. Milk mixed back up fine-- no taste issues-- but harder to use 'em.

As long as botulism signs as desc. above are absent, and as long as contents are heated thoroughly, common sense prevails.

If people have the luxury of tossing food, that's great for them, but we successfully split this haul with others in need and had no ill result. I would not have served these to babies or people with fragile health, but the average American gut is purty tough, unless it's been taught to fear.

~S~

Subject: ADD: Canned Goods (Greg Brown)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 09:53 PM

This is one of the songs proposed for the upcoming Rise Again songbook. I've heard Greg Brown perform it on Prairie Home Companion, but then I forget it. It's a good 'un.

CANNED GOODS
(Greg Brown)

(intro) Let those December winds [alt: the wild winter wind] bellow & blow
I'm as warm as a July to-ma-to

Peaches on the shelf, potatoes in the bin
Supper's ready, everybody come on in
Taste a little of the summer (3x)
My grandma 's put it all in jars

Well, there's a root cellar, fruit cellar down below
Watch your head now & down you go / Peaches...

Maybe you're weary an' you don't give a damn
I bet you never tasted her blackberry jam...

Ah, she's got magic in her, you know what I mean
She puts the sun AND rain in with her green beans...

What with the snow and the economy and everything
I think I'll just stay down here and eat until spring...

(bridge) When I go to see my grandma I gain a lot of weight
With her dear hands she gives me plate after plate
She cans the pickles, sweet and dill
She cans the songs of the whippoorwill
And the morning dew and the evening moon
And I really got to go see her pretty soon
'Cause these canned goods I buy at the store
Ain't got the summer in them anymore
You bet, grandma, as sure as you're born
I'll take some more potatoes and a thunderstorm / Peaches...


Greg Brown
On his Yellow Dog, One More Goodnight Kiss, If I Had Known. On Anne Zimmerman Canned Goods, Jeremy Fischer Mint Juleps & Heartwood Babes in the Wood. In Sing Out! 31:3.
L EAO

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 10:53 AM

In 2001 I bought a packet of arrowroot. On the side it said "use by 21 July 2019". I'm gonna make damn sure I've used it by the 20th, I can tell you...

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 12:01 PM

It is hard to determine if folks are talking about canned in cans or canned in jars. In cans, I would be more concerned about the liner than the deterioration of the food. Lead may no longer be used but other liners may also be toxic. I am minded of friends who "when the can opener i used, the cats know it is for them". I rarely use canned goods.

Properly home canned are good for years but I might always take the precaution of heating to a boil just in case. Nutritional value? Does drop but if you need food and that is all that is available.

I do keep in mind a sad event about 1973: My son and I spent hours picking and canning peas - in pint jars on a wood stove outdoors by moonlight. In the morning, we found that the rust in the old canning pot had gone into the jars. Nothing but compost! My 12 year old swore never to pick and shell peas again! The fact that something actually went into the jars was a shock and something to keep in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 12:23 PM

A related health hazard about using old, poorly stored, cooking oil. A friend was visiting a hunting camp and used some old cooking oil. A result was a case of food poisioning from botulism in the tiny food bits remaining in the oil.

Reused cooking oil 

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 12:25 PM

Grocery stores caught cheating on packaging dates of meat and poultry:


How old is your chicken? 

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Megan L
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 03:39 PM

Gnu dear friend on a historical note the doctor who went looking for franklyn worked for the Hudsons Bay Company, his name was John Rae. He was born in the parish of Stennes on Orkney

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 03:52 PM

From the History website.

Earliest times in food canning.  

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 04:53 PM

Canned Music - Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 08:15 PM

Well, Ed, in the late 60s I worked at a branch of a supermarket chain that still exists (they would definitely no longer do what I'm going to tell you so I won't name the name). I spent most of the time working with the butcher. I would pack, weigh and label all the chops, mince, steaks and bangers. The stick-on label bore the firm's five-letter name. I had to score through the first letter with a pen for meat packed on a Monday, the second letter for a Tuesday, etc. For a Saturday pack I just added an X after the name. We knew when the meat had been packed but the customers didn't. It was a secret. There was no set rule as to how long a pack stayed in the display cabinet; we went solely from its appearance. Any change of colour and out it came. A juicy steak could be in there for a good few days before that happened. Did we throw away the meat that was going off? We did not! Every few days we would empty the packs into a big bowl (beef, pork, lamb all went in there) and put the whole lot twice through the big mincer. Invariably it came out looking as soggy and grey as old dishcloths. Nil desperandum! We simply chucked in big handfuls of a pink powder that "seasoned" (i.e., disguised any original flavours) the meat and coloured it to look fresh and pink again. Then we formed it into burgers, and back into the cabinet they went!

Two other packing tricks were compulsory (use them otherwise you'd be sacked): the meat went in the pack best side up - any fatty or gristly-looking bits were tucked underneath out of sight. And the label, which covered about a third of the clingfilm top of the pack, covered up any remaining visible off-putting bits.

What you think you see is not necessarily what you get!

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 08:37 PM

Someone I worked with had spent some time working in a fish canning factory in north-east Scotland. Conditions were horrible and the employers were utter arseholes. Come one Friday afternoon, she and a friend beside her on the production line took off their socks (worn under rubber boots all day in a hot, steamy atmosphere reeking of fish guts, oil and sweat), stuffed them into the bottom of a few cans, spreading fish over the top to disguise the contents, and sent them on to the sealing machine. It never made the papers. Perhaps people just expect canned fish to taste like that.

One that did make the papers: I spent a month working in a New Zealand ice cream factory owned by a large American corporation. It was not a happy place to work (you were covered in sugar and blasted with clouds of steam all day long). One day two guys got into a fight on the factory floor and one got a tooth knocked out. It was just about possible to re-implant teeth back then, so they looked for the tooth but never found it. I left that job and went to my home town 80 miles away. Three weeks later there was a paragraph in the local paper about somebody finding a tooth in their ice cream. It was weirdly satisfying to know that I was the only person in the world who could explain it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 08:55 PM

A buddy of mine worked in a grocery delicatessen (deli) meat section. These units provide high profit margins for the stores. The grocery store manager insisted on regular profit margins from the deli , which meant few product losses-regardless of sales. It was the deli managers job to obtain those margins no matter whst it took-including changing best before dates. If margins were not met, demotions or sacking followed. However, if food laws were skirted, and it was found out by government inspectors or clients, it was the deli manager who got disciplined or fired. A delicate balancing act, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Shelf life of canned goods
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 08:57 PM

On the other hand I've just wolfed down a pack of Duchy Originals West Country Farmhouse Cheddar which was absolutely superb (outdone only by Green's of Glastonbury and Wookey Hole Cave-aged). It had lurked for months out of sight at the back of my fridge. On the pack it said "Use by Sept 10"!