BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz

Subject: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:22 PM

Dutch Schultz (Arthur Simon Flegenheimer) was a notorious Harlem mobster who got his start running a speakeasy during Prohition and then turned to the numbers racket after Repeal.

http://www.biography.com/notorious/images/crime_files/dutch-schultz.jpg

Schultz's numbers racket became the Pick 3 Lottery which is today played legally in states all over the US although it's no less crooked than it was when Schultz ran it.

Schultz eventually ran into trouble with Thomas Dewey and wanted to kill him. Murder Incorporated said no--too much heat. But they feared Dutch would order a hit on Dewey anyway and so ordered a hit on Schultz and his gang as they dined at a chophouse in Newark. Schultz was taken to a hospital where detectives tried to milk him for information. Stenographer F.J. Lang (or Long) dutifully wrote down the entire exchange.

(Schultz noticed a newspaper in a detective's hand and spoke) - Has it been in any other papers? George, don't make no bull moves. What have you done with him? Oh, mama, mama, mama. Oh stop it, stop it; eh, oh, oh. Sure, sure, mama.
Now listen, Phil, fun is fun. Ah please, papa. What happened to the sixteen? Oh, oh, he done it, please. John, please, oh, did you buy the hotel? You promised a million sure. Get out. I wished I knew.
Please make it quick, fast and furious. Please. Fast and furious. Please help me get out; I am getting my wind back, thank God. Please, please, oh please. You will have to please tell him, you got no case.
You get ahead with the dot dash system didn't I speak that time last night. Whose number is that in your pocket book, Phi1 13780. Who was it? Oh- please, please. Reserve decision. Police, police, Henry and Frankie. Oh, oh, dog biscuits and when he is happy he doesn't get happy please, please to do this. Then Henry, Henry, Frankie you didn't even meet me. The glove will fit what I say oh, Kayiyi, oh Kayiyi. Sure who cares when you are through? How do you know this? How do you know this? Well, then oh, Cocoa know thinks he is a grandpa again. He is jumping around. No Hobo and Poboe I think he means the same thing.
Q. (from Sergeant Conlon) - Who shot you?
A.- The boss himself.
Q.- He did?
A.- Yes, I don't know.
Q.- What did he shoot you for?
A.- I showed him boss; did you hear him meet me? An appointment. Appeal stuck. All right, mother.
Q.- Was it the boss shot you?
A.- Who shot me? No one.
Q.- We will help you.
A.- Will you help me up? O.K. I won't be such a big creep. Oh, mama. I can't go through with it, please. Oh, and then he clips me; come on. Cut that out, we don't owe a nickel; hold it; instead, hold it against him; I am a pretty good pretzler -Winifred- Department of Justice. I even got it from the department. Sir, please stop it. Say listen the last night!
(Statement by Sergeant Conlon) - Don't holler.
A.- I don't want to holler.
Q.- What did they shoot you for?
A.- I don't know, sir. Honestly I don't. I don't even know who was with me, honestly. I was in the toilet and when I reached the -the boy came at me.
Q.- The big fellow gave it to you?
A.- Yes, he gave it to me.
Q.- Do you know who this big fellow was?
A.- No. If he wanted to break the ring no, please I get a month. They did it. Come on. (A name, not clear) cut me off and says you are not to be the beneficiary of this will. Is that right? I will be checked and double-checked and please pull for me. Will you pull? How many good ones and how many bad ones? Please I had nothing with him he was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fight. No business; no hangout; no friends; nothing; just what you pick up and what you need. I don't know who shot me. Don't put anyone near this check~ you might have -please do it for me. Let me get up. heh? In the olden days they waited and they waited. Please give me a shot. It is from the factory. Sure, that is a bad. Well, oh good ahead that happens for trying. I don't want harmony. I want harmony. Oh, mamma, mamma! Who give it to him? Who give it to him? Let me in the district -fire-factory that he was nowhere near. It smoldered No, no. There are only ten of us and there ten million fighting somewhere of you, so get your onions up and we will throw up the truce flag. Oh, please let me up. Please shift me. Police are here. Communistic...strike...baloney...honestly this is a habit I get; sometimes I give it and sometimes I don't. Oh, I am all in. That settles it. Are you sure? Please let me get in and eat. Let him harass himself to you and then bother you. Please don't ask me to go there. I don't want to. I still don't want him in the path. It is no use to stage a riot. The sidewalk was in trouble and the bears were in trouble and I broke it up. Please put me in that room. Please keep him in control. My gilt edged stuff and those dirty rats have tuned in. Please mother, don't tear, don't rip; that is something that shouldn't be spoken about. Please get me up, my friends. Please, look out. The shooting is a bit wild, and that kind of shooting saved a man's life. No payrolls. No wells. No coupons. That would be entirely out. Pardon me, I forgot I am plaintiff and not defendant. Look out. Look out for him. Please. He owed me money; he owes everyone money. Why can't he just pullout and give me control? Please, mother, you pick me up now. Please, you know me. No. Don't you scare me. My friends and I think I do a better job. Police are looking for you allover. Be instrumental in letting us know. They are English-men and they are a type I don't know who is best, they or us. Oh, sir, get the doll a roofing. You can play jacks and girls do that with a soft ball and do tricks with it. I take all events into consideration. No. No. And it is no. It is confused and its says no. A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim. Did you hear me?
Q. (By Detective) - Who shot you?
A.- I don't know.
Q.- How many shots were fired?
A.- I don't know.
Q.- How many?
A.- Two thousand. Come on, get some money in that treasury. We need it. Come on, please get it. I can't tell you to. That is not what you have in the book. Oh, please warden. What am I going to do for money? Please put me up on my feet at once. You are a hard boiled man. Did you hear me? I would hear it, the Circuit Court would hear it, and the Supreme Court might hear it. If that ain't the pay-off. Please crack down on the Chinaman's friends and Hitler's commander. I am sore and I am going up and I am going to give you honey if I can. Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
Q. (By Detective) - What did the big fellow shoot you for?
A.- Him? John? Over a million, five million dollars.
Q.- You want to get well, don't you?
A.- Yes.
Q.- Then lie quiet.
A.- Yes, I will lie quiet.
Q.- John shot and we will take care of John.
A.- That is what caused the trouble. Look out. Please let me up. If you do this, you can go on and jump right here in the lake. I know who they are. They are French people. All right. Look out, look out. Oh, my memory is gone. A work relief police. Who gets it? I don't know and I don't want to know, but look out. It can be traced. He changed for the worse. Please look out; my fortunes have changed and come back and went back since that. It was desperate. I am wobbly. You ain't got nothing on him but you got it on his helper.
Q. (By detective ) - Control yourself.
A.- But I am dying.
(Statement by detective) - No, you are not.
A.- Come on, mama. All right, dear, you have to get it.
At this point, Schultz's wife, Frances, was brought to his bedside. She spoke.
(Statement by Mrs. Schultz) - This is Frances.
Schultz began to talk again, saying:
Then pull me out. I am half crazy. They won't let me get up. They dyed my shoes. Open those shoes. Give me something. I am so sick. Give me some water, the only thing that I want. Open this up and break it so I can touch you. Danny, please get me in the car.
At this point Mrs. Schultz left the room.
(Sergeant Conlon questioned Schultz again) - Who shot you?
A.- I don't know. I didn't even get a look. I don't know who can have done it. Anybody. Kindly take my shoes off.

Conlon: They are off.

A.- No. There is a handcuff on them. The Baron says these things. I know what I am doing here with my collection of papers. It isn't worth a nickel to two guys like you or me but to a collector it is worth a fortune. It is priceless. I am going to turn it over to... Turn your back to me, please Henry. I am so sick now. The police are getting many complaints. Look out. I want that G-note. Look out for Jimmy Valentine for he is an old pal of mine. Come on, come on, Jim. Ok, ok, I am all through. Can't do another thing. Look out mamma, look out for her. You can't beat him. Police, mamma, Helen, mother, please take me out. I will settle the indictment. Come on, open the soap duckets. The chimney sweeps. Talk to the sword. Shut up, you got a big mouth! Please help me up, Henry. Max, come over here. French-Canadian bean soup. I want to pay. Let them leave me alone.

Schultz did not speak again and died about 2 hours later on October 24, 1935.

http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dutch-schultz.bmp

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 08:39 PM

Hmmm.

Well, I hope that Chongo will be a little more lucid than that if he ever winds up in a similar situation.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:38 PM

Anyone remember Dutch Cleanser? Was the girl on the can Dutch Schulz's moll?

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 09:45 PM

Workman fired two rounds at Schultz; only one struck him, slightly below his heart, and it ricocheted around his abdomen before exiting from the small of his back. --Wikipedia

Gut shot, and the hospital didn't realize how bad the wound was. No wonder he drifted in and out of lucidity.

Even as recently as WW2 (see US Army Medical Records) there was about a 40% mortality rate; in 1935 this would probably have been more in line with the WW1 mortality rate of about 64%. Given that extent of Schulz's wounds weren't even realized on the operating table, delay of treatment would also have been a factor.

It has long been known that stomach wounds caused a painful, lingering death, and in addition Workman, Schulz's killer, is said to have deliberately used "rusty bullets" to increase the chances of peritonitis.

Yeah, he was semi-lucid some of the time. Considering the pain he must have been in I'm not surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:47 PM

You could write a musical about that (to the music of lets call the whole thing off)

Some folks say Douche, but I say Dutch!
Some call me louche! But i think I'm butch
Douche! Dutch!
Louche! Butch!
Oh shit! the gun's gone off!

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM

Do the police in New York (or was it Newark?) still make a practice of interrogating prisoners who need medical treatment while they are in the process of dying?

I get the impression Guantanamo wasn't really an anomaly, but basically business as normal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 09:36 PM

I don't see anything wrong with that. If you don't get answers from that person, he'll die and you may never find out who did it. Yes, cops will question you as you're dying if foul play is suspected because you may hold the only answers and wouldn't you want to give a statement in hopes that the person who did it to you doesn't get away with it?

The shooter in this case was identified as Charlie Workman. Robert Anton Wilson brought up the coincidence of the 23 with Schultz. I don't know if I remember them all:

-Shot on the 23rd of October.
-Shooters were Charlie Workman and Mendy Weiss and "W" is the 23rd letter of the alphabet.
-Workman served 23 years for killing Dutch.
-Dutch's last hit was on a former-henchman-turned-rival named Vince Coll executed on 23rd Street in New York.
-Coll was 23.

There are various versions of the Dutchman's last words. For instance, "John, please, oh, did you buy the hotel?" is rendered as "John, please, oh, did you buy the whole tale?" There's certain elegance to it.

Also "The chimney sweeps. Talk to the sword" is more likely, "The chimney sweeps took to the sword."

Some even think this "John" Dutch kept referring to was Dillinger who had died the year before. Strangely, is connected to 23 in a strange way: by the 22 and 24 making 23 conspicuous by its absence. For example, the movie Dillinger had seen in the biograph Theatre before being ambushed by the FBI outside was "Manhattan Melodrama" which as a scene where Clark Gable is at the betting booths of a horse track. He goes to booth 22 and places a bet and then walks to booth 24. Booth 23 is never visible. One of the agents who was present the killing of Dillinger was none other than Guy Banister--who allegedly knew Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans where they seemed to be sharing the same office when Banister was working as a PI. Oswald then (allegedly) killed Kennedy on the 22nd of November and was, in turn, killed by Jack Ruby on the 24th. Gotta love it.

And I find the statement, "In the olden days, they waited and waited" to be downright occultic in its significance. Although who knows what Dutch meant by it?

The statement, "Please crack down on the Chinaman's friends and Hitler's commander" reminds me of Walter Stennes--a top leader of the Brownshirts and who opposed Hitler on the role of the SA within the Nazi Party so that Hitler expelled him and Stennes fled Germany in 1933 and became the right hand man of Chiang Kai-shek.

If, by some bizarre chance, the Dutchman was actually referring to Stennes or a part of the Nazi Party allied with Stennes, it would mean this two-bit Jewish hoodlum (who practiced Catholicism) was connected to some strange international network especially since Stennes's flight from Germany to China occurred only a couple of years before the Dutchman's death and who outside of the Germany's political circles would have known or cared?

But, as Marty Krompier--a Schultz-allied mobster who was shot the same night as Dutch in a separate incident--told the police, "Must be one of them coincidences." Apparently, there were a lot of those associated with the Dutchman.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 11:22 PM

There really IS such a thing as coincidence....

I point out that I was born on February 11 (send expensive gifts!). February is the second month, and 2 x 11 = 22.

23 is the ninth prime number, and nine is the number of hours, days, weeks, etc. in a Catholic novena. Schultz became Catholic before he died.

Oswald was shot on 11/24, and 24 is 6 x 4, both of which are even numbers. There were (most of the time) 6 people living in my childhood home, four of which were children. But we didn't even know Jack Ruby (note that BOTH names have four letters!).

In brief, I can prove 'most anything by numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 11:34 PM

It may be coincidence. Or it may be that the entire Universe is interconnected in a way we don't yet understand....and works rather like a hologram. This could produce a variety of similar events in many different places...or congruence of numbers in regards to events...etc...not that anyone or anything was consciously planning it that way, but simply because it works that way automatically through a form of what could be termed resonance.

If you sound a note in a room full of instruments, they will all vibrate to it sympathetically and will produce the tone themselves, plus some additional overtones. The Universe may act in a similar way.

Every tiniest part of a hologram contains the image of the entire hologram. If you affect one part you affect all parts. That's another way of looking at it.

I've seen two many examples of "coincidences" by this time to be entirely sceptical that there's not a real pattern of some kind involved in such things happening. I don't think it's God doing it. I don't think it's deliberate on anyone's part. But I think it does happen. I think it's kind of like echoes and waveforms passing through this entire reality, and evidencing themselves in similar ways in a number of different places...or time periods.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 11:59 PM

////I point out that I was born on February 11 (send expensive gifts!). February is the second month, and 2 x 11 = 22. ////

Dillinger, by the way, was killed on the 22nd. Even stranger, he was also born on a 22nd.

A very weird coincidence with the 22/24 occurrence is the US presidency where the 22nd and 24th president was Grover Cleveland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Fossil
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:23 AM

And a high tide happens on the 23rd of the month. I find this significant. And scary.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 06:35 AM

Perhaps what he meant to say was:-

'Tell Eleanor Roosevelt, that I love her - but our affair must remain a secret forever...'

But he got confused.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:03 AM

"Dutch" begins with the letter "D". There are only TWO words with 23 letters that begin with "D": "deinstitutionalizations" and "dichlorodifluoromethane".

There must be some sort of meaning in this.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 01:15 PM

Anybody remember Dutch Boy Paints? They were probably used extensively by the Mob.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 01:18 PM

How the hell would anyone even go about finding words that begin with "d" and contain 23 letters?

There is probably some meaning in anything...from a certain perspective. And without that perspective...no meaning at all. So sort it out according to your perspective. If it has meaning to you, then you are the one who made that possible.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 01:48 PM

Well, for last words, I prefer, "Let us cross over the river and rest among the trees," (Stonewall Jackson). No one really knows what that means, either, but it's shorter.

Or: "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..." John Sedgewick, Union general, at the battle of Spottsylvania Courthouse. That one we know what it meant.

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 01:48 PM

A grand faloon as Kurt Vonnegut used to say! (Cats Cradle - I think!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: gnu
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 02:15 PM

Rap... what was a rusty bullet back in the 30s?

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:06 PM

Steel, I guess. I wondered about that too. Copper or brass jackets could become corroded, I suppose, and lead can oxidize. Personally, I like the idea of drilling a little hole in the end of a lead bullet, filling it with poop, and sealing it with a plug of wax -- too bad it doesn't work, but it IS creative. There's also the old idea of cutting an "X" in the end of a lead bullet for great tissue destruction.

In any of these cases accuracy would doubtful beyond about two feet.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:11 PM

The Old Dutch Brewery is still extant in Brooklyn but the building is no longer used for that purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 06:48 AM

I always think Stonewall Jackson's last words are very moving - given the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM

"There's also the old idea of cutting an "X" in the end of a lead bullet for great tissue destruction.

In any of these cases accuracy would doubtful beyond about two feet."

Not on 12 ga slug. It was my good luck charm. Actually, a cross cut with a thumbnail.

As for steel, I did not know it was used for jackets "back then".

Lead oxide sounds odd to me. Wiki says... "PbO may be prepared by heating lead metal in air at approx. 600 °C."

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:34 PM

////"Let us cross over the river and rest among the trees," (Stonewall Jackson). ////

I'd read it rendered as, "Men, let us cross this last river and then we'll rest in the shsde of those trees over yonder."

Subject: RE: BS: The Last Words of Dutch Schultz
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:40 PM

Jackson's last words are indeed quite moving and appropriate.

Shane's last words in a similar situation to Dutch Schultz or Stonewall Jackson would probably be an agonized "Flip ME!...." trailing off to a weary death rattle.