Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men

Subject: The women are worse than the men
From: Norbert and Gesa
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 07:20 PM

Who has the tune and the chords of the song " The women are worse than the men"???

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 07:41 PM

Hi, Norbert and Gesa - I put women are worse in the blue Digital Tradition Lyrics Search box on this page, and one of the songs that came up was THE DEVIL AND THE FARMER'S WIFE (click here). Is that the one you're looking for? It has a link for playing a MIDI of the tune, down at the bottom of the lyrics.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: THE WOMEN ARE WORSE THAN THE MEN
From: Gesa and Norbert
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 09:27 PM

Hi, Joe
No, it is a different song.
The lyrics are:

Is it true that the women are worse than the men,
That they went down to hell and were thrown out again?

Now there was an old man lived at Kellyburnbraes
And he had a wife was the plague of his days.

The devil he came to the man at the plough
Saying, "One of your family I must take now."

Said he, "My good man, I've come for your wife,
For I hear she's the plague and torment of your life."

So the devil he hoisted her up on his back
And landed at Hell's hall-door with a crack.

There were two little devils a-playing with chains.
She upped with her stick and knocked out their brains.

There were two other devils looked over the wall.
They said, "Take her away or she'll murder us all."

So the devil he hoisted her up on his back
And back to the old man hurried the pack.

They were seven years going and nine coming back
Yet she asked for the scrapings she left in the pot.

Said he, "My good man, here's your wife back again
For she wouldn't be kept not even in hell.

"Now I've been a devil the most of my life
But I never was in hell till I met with your wife."

So it is true that the women are worse than the men,
For they went down to hell and were thrown out again.

So if anyone knows the tunes to this song it would be great!

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 25-Feb-03.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:25 AM

There are various versions that I've come across either in library books or on cd...the one I like and tend to sing is Maureen O'Hara's version on the cd "They Call It Ireland" (Columbia/Legacy)...not that this helps much.

There is an old version in "Irish Street Ballads" by Colm O'Loughlin (copyrights 1939 and 1946) I've readily found it in the public libraries in the towns I've lived in...you might check it out.

SingsIrish Songs

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:39 AM

I know the version sung by Burl Ives. It has "Right fal right fal tiddy fal day" and "Right fal day, tiddy fal day, right fal right fal tiddy fal day" between the lines, with the verses that you mention. Is it that version?
IF so I can post the tune here or send you a midi.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: j0_77
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:43 AM

Hi if you'd like I can email a compressed wav file of the bare bones, also the words as I recall differ but it's nearly the same lyric. I last heard it by Arthur Smith, Old timey fiddler USA, playing and singing his version.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:56 AM

For a number of versions of this ballad (The Farmer's Curst Wife) look in Bertrand Bronson's The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads. Your larger libraries or any good university library ought to have the four volume set. If not, try to get it through inter-library loan. The Child number is 278 (to see other versions in the DT just put #278 in the box up there), so the volume you want is the fourth, probably, since there are 305 ballads in the Child canon. Child, by the way, was a scholar at Harvard in the latter part of the 19th century, and his collection has provided a guide to ballad research ever since it was first published.

The point is, what you have here IS the same song that Joe pointed you toward, just a different version. There are hundreds of 'em reported from all over the English speaking world.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:50 AM

Hi - I got lazy and didn't say that this is Child Ballad #278, as Sandy pointed out. If you put #278 in the search box, you'll come up with the versions we have - I think we have four sets of lyrics and three tunes.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: GeorgeH
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 07:16 AM

So how about complementing this song with, say, "Man smart, woman smarter" . . .

G.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Norbert and Gesa
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:53 PM

Hi Barbara Yes it seems to be the right song. It would be lovely if you could send us a midi of it. If you would give me your E-mail adress, we could give our adress in Germany.

Thanks already

Norbert and Gesa

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Lesley N.
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:37 PM

I have a midi of it here (http://www.contemplator.com/folk5/curstwif.html). It may not be the version you are familiar with. I saw another version of it called Kellyburnbraes (from Scotland) in one of my songbooks. I'll see if I can find it and put it together... may take a few days though...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The women are worse than the men
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 06:17 PM

The version Norbert and Gesa are after is obviously the one recorded by The Dubliners on 'A Parcel of Rogues' in 1976, calles by them 'Killieburne Brae'; it should be on one of their numerous compilation CDs. If Barbara sending you the MIDI doesn't work you could send me a tape and I'd put it on there for you. - Susanne

Subject: Lyr Add: KELLYBURNBRAES (from 1877)
From: Lesley N.
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:21 AM

This isn't that particular version, but they might be interested in an 1877 version of KELLYBURNBRAES. The words are a bit different than the ones in the database so here they are:

Ae day as the carl gaed up the lang glen,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
He met wi' the de'il, says 'How do ye fen?'
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

'I've got a bad wife, sir, that's a' my complaint,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
For, saving your presence, to her you're a saint.'
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

'It's neither your stot nor your staig I shall crave,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
But gie me your wife, man, for her I must have.'
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

'O welcome, most kindly,' the blythe earl said,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
'But if ye can match her ye're waur than ye're ca'd.'
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

The de'il has got the auld wife on his back,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
And like a poor pedlar he's carried his pack.
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

He's carried her hame, where the pick o' his band
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
Turn out on her guard in the clap of a hand.
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

The carlin gaed thro' them like any wud bear,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
Whae'er she got hands on cam' near her nae mair.
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

The de'il he swore by the edge of his knife,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
He pitied the man that was tyed to a wife.
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

The Satan has travelled again wi' his pack,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
And to her auld husband he's carried her back.
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

'A de'il I hae been for the feck o' my life,
Hey, and the rue grows bonnie wi' thyme,
But ne'er was in torments till I met wi' your wife.'
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime.

A midi of it is at Kellyburnbraes (http://www.contemplator.com/child/kellybrn.html).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 18 - 10:22 PM

Maggie Gallagher. I know the tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:10 AM

One of the two Irish versions
THe 'whistling' chorus is related to the belief that it was possible to call up the Devil by whistling -
Jim Caarroll

7. THE FARMER'S CURST WIFE (Child 278), sung by Thomas Moran, Mohill, Co. Leitrim; recorded by Seamus Ennis {BBC Sound Archive).

The motif of the curst wife who was a terror to demons runs through Oriental and European folklore, and it still provokes the laughter of modern audiences. [No ballad has been found in better form and with more engaging tunes in American tradition, and it is still much sung in Britain as well. I suspect that the prudish sexual attitudes of the 19th century had much to do with a recent increase in its popularity, for it appeared on London broadsides during this period and at the same time spread west with the pioneers .] Both men and women enjoy it. It reminds women of the strength of their spiteful anger, if once aroused. For men it conforms to an old and bitter proverb, "There are two places a man wants his wife - in bed, and in the grave." [I have been told that the ballad was once sung in the Southern Mountains to silence shrewish wives, the women half-believing that the story might be true – that the devil might come for them if they turned too mean.] Probably the song embodies a fragment of an old folk tale theme, in which a man agrees to give the devil a member of his family for some service. Robert Burns re-wrote a version called "Kellyburn Braes".

References:
Bell BSP, pp. 204-5; Williams, p. 211; Greig LL, p. 220; Hayward, pp. 33-5; Hammond/Gardiner, p. 24; [P. Barry, British Ballads From Maine, p. 332; Coffin, 148; Guide, 66.]

1. I know an old couple that lives near hell,
(Whistles)
And if they didn't leave it they're living there still,
With me whack-fol-dye-fol-iggiddy-fol-the-dol-ee.

2. The devil he came to the man at the plough.
Saying, "I've come for some of your family now."

3. "Oh, which of me family do you like best?"
"Oh, your scolding wife, it is her I like best."

4. "Take her away with all me heart.
And that you and her may never come back."

5. He got this old woman right up on his back,
And a pedlar was never more proud of his pack.

6. He carried her on to a heap of stones,
And he left her down there and he stamped on her bones.

7. He carried her on till he came to Hook Hill,
And she cried as much tears as would turn a mill.

8. He carried her on till he came to Hell's wall,
And she up with her fist and flattened them all.

9. Eight little devils come down, to put her into a sack,
And she up with her critch and broke nine of their backs.

10. The devil was looking across the wall,
Oh, sayin', "Take her away or she'll murder us all."

11. She was seven years goin' and seven more comin' back.
And she's called for the scrapings she left in the pot.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 12:03 PM

This theme sure got around. I know a version that John Jacob Niles collected in Kentucky.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 02:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7HXVQ0ko3o

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Women Are Worse than the Men
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jul 18 - 05:59 PM

Or, more naughtily,

This proves that the women are better than men.
They can all go to hell -- and come right back again.