BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 08:24 AM

Hide from your TV...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 09:58 AM

TV is the slow method of having a frontal lobotomy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 10:04 AM

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than frontal lobotomy...

Nevermind...

No OWS for me this weekend... Last weekends drumming got my poor ol' back messed up... Gotta do a little re-engineering on my drum straps...

BTW, the Iraq vet, Scott Olsen, who was seriously injured by the Oakland cops, has been upgraded to "fair" condition...

Meanwhile, here in Charlotte, the City Council is working on rewriting the city's ordinances that would allow them to evict OccupyCharlotte...

Normal... Seems that is the new strategy by Boss Hog...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 10:17 AM

There'll be lots of that, Bobert. Reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm. When the law doesn't do what ya want, change the law. However, the base is covered for the BIG MONEY folks:

"United States

The principle of the Riot Act was incorporated into the first Militia Act (1 Stat. 264) of 8 May 1792. The Act's long title was "An act to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions".
Section 3 of the Militia Act gave power to the President to issue a proclamation to "command the insurgents to disperse, and retire peaceably to their respective abodes, within a limited time", and authorised him to use the militia if they failed to do so. Substantively identical language is presently codified at chapter 15 of title 10, United States Code.[13]


To this day many jurisdictions that have inherited the tradition of English common law and Scots law still employ statutes that require police or other executive agents to deliver an oral warning, much like the Riot Act, before an unlawful public assembly may be forcibly dispersed.
Because the authorities were required to read the proclamation that referred to the Riot Act before they could enforce it, the expression "to read the Riot Act" entered into common language as a phrase meaning "to reprimand severely", with the added sense of a stern warning. The phrase remains in everyday use in the English language."

From Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM

A nugget of wisdom in a Bobert stinkbomb:

"The only way in which society can be changed in a meaningful way is through unity and in our case that means we shall almost certainly never see it....but our grandchildren might!
It means finding common ground with the people who are not politically motivated, who want a quiet life, a reasonable standard of living, a little freedom and a sensible lifestyle."

Just say no to tribal politics. Find common ground. Look for things to agree on.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 10:56 AM

"Anyone have current info, please add it until we start getting even more thru the [non existant] news embargo"

You are in good company Comerade Bobert

American Communist Party: Occupy Chicago fills the jail with inspiration and solidarity
by: John Bachtell October 20 2011

CHICAGO -- On Saturday Oct. 15, I was one of the 200 occupiers who were arrested standing up for free speech and assembly and against corporate greed, after Occupy Chicago attempted to establish an encampment at the edge of Grant Park.

For nearly a month this movement has been occupying the corner of Jackson and LaSalle streets in the heart of the city's financial district. However, city ordinances make it impossible to stay overnight there so protesters sleep in a nearby church.

Under a crisp cool night sky a spirited march of 4,000 strong marched from the financial district to Grant Park. As waves streamed into the pavilion at the corner of Michigan and Congress, a giant American flag was lofted and passed over the heads of protesters.

While tents were being set up an impromptu rally took place. It began with the prescient but eerie audio clip of Charlie Chaplin who played the Jewish barber in his 1940 film, "The Great Dictator," the first major feature film of its period to bitterly satirize Nazism and Adolf Hitler.

"You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure," the recording crackled over the park.

"Then, in the name of democracy, let us use that power! Let us all unite! ... Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness."

First to address the crowd was Armando Robles, President of UE Local 1110 and a leader of the four-day Republic Windows and Doors occupation in 2008 . Then greetings were delivered from labor and community groups including the Chicago Teachers Union, Teamsters, Steelworkers, immigrant's rights and peace activists and the Communist Party.

Many blasted Wall Street and the banks for ruining the lives of millions and corrupting democracy. They spoke proudly of the new movement sweeping the country and how they were determined to take a stand.

The Chicago Police Department surrounded the protest with officers and, at 11 p.m., announced we were in violation of a city ordinance that prohibits being in the park after hours.

Awaiting arrest, the mood among the overwhelmingly young protesters was defiant and festive. At times the crowd sang in unison, including labor and folk songs. Everyone seemed to know the words to Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land."

Protesters linked arms and ringed the tents. At 1:30 a.m., after repeated warnings, the police began to arrest us and tear down the hastily constructed tent village. Everyone remained calm, strengthened by the understanding we were going to jail for a worthy cause.

While the arrests were taking place we began singing the National Anthem. It reminded me of the Madison, Wis., protests earlier this year where I witnessed 5000 people sing the National Anthem in the capitol rotunda.

It was an electrifying moment in both places and enough to bring tears to your eyes. The message was clear - we love our country and refuse to allow it to be ruined. This was real patriotism on display, fighting for a real people's democracy and reclaiming the American Dream.

I'll never forget the look in the eyes of one young woman as an officer asked her if she was ready for arrest. "Yes, she said serenely. "Please arrest me." Her eyes sparkled with fearlessness and purpose.

The police separated men and women and filled a Chicago transit bus with men. We were all taken to the police station at 18th and State.

As I was being processed, an officer asked why a "boomer" like me was protesting. I told him, "I'm here to end corporate greed and make the country better."

"You're going to have to end capitalism to do that," he said. I nodded and replied, "If that's what it takes."

Another African American officer sympathized with the protest. "If it weren't for the 1960's I wouldn't be here today," he said.

We were led past holding cells crammed with protesters. A loud cheer and raised fists greeted everyone who passed.

I was placed in Holding Cell C and welcomed by the 25 others there. At 55 years old I was by far the old man of the cell. Most were in their twenties and thirties.

After a short while we settled in for the rest of the night and got talking. Someone began by giving the clearest explanation I have heard of what a "derivative" is, how Wall Street "gambling" crashed the economy and then how the victims were blamed. Sometimes the best education takes place in a jail cell!

Then we got to introductions. Everyone listened respectfully as we told our stories of what we did and what brought us to Occupy Chicago. There were young factory workers, students, a professor, an aspiring comic and union members from Unite Here, SEIU and the Teamsters.

This was the first civil disobedience arrest for most and for some it was their first participation in an Occupy Chicago protest. All spoke eloquently about how corporate greed had impacted their lives.

Our discussions were far ranging. Toward morning we discussed how to diversify the movement and debated whether the Occupy Chicago movement should consider police part of the 99% or just an arm of the state.

The mood throughout the night was joyous, born of solidarity in battle. I can only imagine what it must have been like during the Civil Rights movement when thousands "gladly went to jail" for freedom.

Finally, after being fingerprinted, issued I-bonds (someone joked it was a new Apple product) and assigned a court date, we gathered our belongings and were released. We exited the police station into a dreary Sunday morning rain only to be warmed by a cheering crowd who had waited all night for our release.

There's not one of us who wouldn't do it again, and most likely we will, to end corporate greed and make our country right.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 11:12 AM

There is a skunk that wanders by almost every night making his rounds. I call him Charley. (That's also my name for the jays, squirrels, chipmunks, mourning doves, sparrows, nuthatches, chickadees and any dog or cat I don't know.)

Charley the Skunk is a nice guy. Let him know you're nearby and he moves a bit further away. He has never threatened to spray me, and that includes the night I was taking a pee on a bush and he passed about five feet behind me. I spoke to him as I always do: 'Charley, don't get excited.' Charley didn't get excited. Long as he knows yer there, he's cool.

Charley cleaned out a yellow jacket (ground bee) nest a while back thus earning my gratitude. When he hurt one of his front paws a while ago I left food for him out back to make his existence easier. Sometimes friendships have to be determined by common ground, other times by compassion. I like Charley, and he seems to tolerate my presence more than he does the neighbourhood cats who receive his spray on occasion.

Charley and I are not friends in the sense he's welcome to come have supper in the living room, but neither are we enemies just because we view life differently or are different ourselves.

His paw seems to have healed and the limp is gone. I don't feed him anymore. As I said, he's a nice guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM

From Michael C. Ruppert, who is the former LA Police Officer in the video below:

"There is a reason why all of the sudden brutality against Occupy Wall Street has erupted. This was coming and several of our members recognized it and have been talking about it for days on our pages. Bank of America has transferred $75 trillion worth of fraudulent derivatives (mortgage-backed securities) onto the b...alance sheet of its FDIC-insured bank knowing full-well that the derivatives are going to default. The Federal Reserve will print enough debt to cover that which you and I will have to, but never be able to, repay. This is the corrupt banking system's way of absolutely gutting the United States economy and government. This doesn't even approach being legal from any direction or via any argument. This is open criminality that is even boastful in its brazenness.

I am told that the Chief of Police in Santa Rosa, California has issued a statement declaring that any Occupy Santa Rosa encampment in place will be removed "by whatever force necessary". This will probably take place in the early-morning hours of Sunday, October 30. I have also learned that a contingent from Santa Rosa PD participated in the brutal attacks on Occupy Oakland over the last few days. I believe that I am one of many reasons they wish to make an example of Occupy Santa Rosa. They know I will be there and I believe they will be looking for me. I have promised to be in the encampment that night. I will be front and center, in solidarity with every other occupier.

I am asking any Collapsenet members, or any military or law enforcement veterans who feel the call to join me. You can find out more here. As I predicted, the next ugly phase of collapse has arrived... right on time. -- Do not be afraid. It will not endure. But it will be very bloody and very painful.

Prepare. Prepare. Prepare." -- Michael C Ruppert.

A Message To All Police Officers from Occupy Wall Street

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM

First of all, thanks Lizzie, for that link... I watched every 19 plus minutes of it and was thinking...

....geeze, wouldn't it be nice to have 1/100th of the $$$$ that the Koch brothers and health insurance companies used to organize the Tea Party to put together a 30 second ad with this guy and show it over and over this Sunday during the football games that most cops will be watching or hearing about...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Mayet
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 07:28 AM

Is this the same conspiracy-theory 'journalist' Michael Ruppert who claims the US government, and Wall Street colluded with the perpetrators of 9/11.... just asking

I support the 'Occupy' movement but I'm not too fond of self promoters and people who jump on bandwagons.
There is plenty to be outraged about over the increasing inequality globally where we see executives wages growing at an immoral pace while workers wages are remaining frozen or even falling in real terms without 'X files nonsense'

Off topic but, now that Ruppert's contribution has been added, can someone please explain to me exactly what Ruppert's CollapseNet and the 'lifeboat movement' is.

On his site it says
"CollapseNet is now offering the chance to make 20% commissions on new memberships. This program is designed to put money in your pocket for helping CollapseNet grow and encouraging those around you to work on their own Lifeboats.
CollapseNet needs to grow to get Mike Ruppert's message to as many people as possible."

"Those for whom $10 a month is a hardship have the option of bartering your way in."

And….
"CollapseNet's Affiliate Program is NOT a Ponzi scheme, but rather a single-tier commission-based system"

?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 11:12 AM

"The police are just doing their job." Haven't we heard that song before? "I was just following orders." Does that sound familiar? Anyone remember the Nurenberg Trials.

Time to reassess who the 99%'ers are and who works for the corporate state.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 11:13 AM

This video is of a great American. I think y'all should be happy you have him. Too bad there's not more like him. A Senate address by Bernie Sanders in 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JXzZz0_rIzY

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 11:45 AM

Bernie is great!

There is a new question. Are the police part of the 99'ers or puppets of a corporate state?

You have to ask.

Remember the old cliche "I was just doing my job."

What is their job? (No longer to serve and protect unless it's the corporations that pay them off).

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Etan Ben-Ami
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 12:27 PM

On October 28, 2011, the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street in New York adopted a new structure for all operational decision making: effectively a new constitution. This puts most of the resources and the good name of OWS in the hands of a 'Spokes Council' designed by a vanguard committee: the Structure Working Group.

I believe the plan is seriously flawed. Though there is no reason to doubt the honesty and integrity of the members of the Structure Working Group, I think the new process could easily be subverted or corrupted. I tried to block it, citing both ethical and safety considerations.

The Spokes Council proposal includes provisions that place disproportionate influence in the hands of persons belonging to small working groups and caucuses, especially if they belong to several. They can add to their influence through classic political machinations like vote swapping.

The Spokes Council can also change its own charter and process of decision making without the approval of the General Assembly. Hypothetically, it could do away with consensus decision making, appointing a steering committee and officers.

The Spokes Council proposal does away with the protective mechanism of individual 'blocks' to consensus: a situation in which an individual raises serious ethical or safety concerns based on their perception of a proposal. (It allows blocks, but only if a working group or caucus creates a block through consensus within itself first. This is unlikely to ever occur.)

This plan was put forward as living and working conditions on Liberty Plaza began to decline. Simpler plans, involving less structural change, were never considered as alternatives at the General Assembly. Several of its proponents claimed the Spokes Council proposal was the only solution for efficient and effective management of worsening problems on the Plaza.

This was well received by occupiers who are frustrated with the difficulty of working together effectively. Prior to this proposal, any substantive action (eg purchasing storage bins) required the submission and approval of a proposal to the entire General Assembly.

The failure to fix this problem with simpler changes is highly suspect. Less ambitious changes would have enabled effective action before things declined to their present state. This would have led to a more careful examination of such sweeping changes in process. In short: they promised to make the trains run on time -- and the people said 'do it'.

At this time, a council which has never met, and which can change its own rules of process without real accountability, has been empowered to make spending decisions from a $500K pool of contributions to Occupy Wall Street.

I blocked this proposal with a careful analysis of its provisions, noting both safety and ethical concerns. The new 'constitution' was passed over my objections. I am taking the only ethical position I know, which is to dissociate myself from Occupy Wall Street.

I am now exploring the possibility of organizing a new social media project for wider-scale public involvement. It will address the issues of economic inequity and undemocratic corporate influence from the perspective of ordinary people in everyday life. Stay tuned, and let me know if you are interested in becoming an online activist.

-- Etan Ben-Ami, [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 12:58 PM

The think tank song

The think tanks, bought by Wall St., told the people
You can all have loans
For houses
That you all want
To buy.
[As above} The think tanks, bought by Wall St. told the people - Get a second loan - Cuz your house has value - to sell.
The think tanks, bought by Wall St., told the people - Buy derivatives - For profits - That no one can
Explain.
The think tanks, bought by Wall St., told the people    - We need all your cash - for bailouts – its all your fault – deadbeat.
The think tanks, bought by Wall St., told the people - Blame the immigrants – blame liberals – blame Obama – not US.
The think tanks, bought by Wall St., told the people - You can't have any – of all those – entitlements – no more.

The High Court, bought by Wall St., told the people – that Bush beat Gore – so go home – the election - is done.
The High Court, bought by Wall St., told the people – that corporations – are people – that have more rights – than you.
The High Court, bought by Wall St., told the people – that money is speech – so shut up – it's the money – that talks.
The High Court, bought by Wall St., told the people – unlimited cash – will elect – our candidates – HA HA!

The Honest, taught the people, de moc racy – was vanquished by rich – for profits - far too large – to spend.   THE END



This can be sung as Tip Toe Thru the Tulips or a blues standard.
Even Joe HIll wil work with minor lyric deits.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

Yo, Etan,

You have no credibility here... You sound like a right wing corporatist who is out to promote diversion and right winged crap...

Like, who are you??? Why are you here now??? What is your history here???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM

I'm Donuel the savant of the midwest.


Here is my Signs of the TImes:
5 signs I've seen and the rest are originals

Free BS (bumper sticker) if you find my name.


Here is my OWS mantra chant courtesy of Johm Lennon's give peace a chance...

Wall St is saying, Pay all my debts
All we are saying, is thats not our debt.





That really sums it up in a Richard Feynman singularity of truth.


It was Henry Paulson who as CEO of Goldman Sachs in Aprill 2004 who bribed and extorted 5 SEC regulators to, for the first time, allow all banks to borrow unlimited money with no collateral. That meeting in the Woolworth building was GROUND ZERO for the deliberate global economic crises that would leave only 5 banks standing and 400 people owning the majority of everything there is to own in the world.

Paulson along with the other 7 Wall St. corporations laughed in the meeting at the mere suggestion that anything could go wrong.
From that time forward, The banks were never so much in control and simultaneously OUT OF CONTROL.

They ended up borrowing imaginary money to make bets on the failure of the United States and various targeted companies by inventing Credit default swaps and buying insurance that certain corporations would fail. How could they know who would fail? They had several weapons to guarantee the failure of their target bets. Rumoer, shorting their stock and hostile takeovers are but a few weapons.

They borrowed somewhere between 70 to 90 TRILLION DOLLARS to bet at the casino of their own making.
To get an idea, If you stiffed a million dollars in a piggy bank every single day for 2,476 years you will have saved one trillion dollars.

THAT IS THEIR DEBT, it is not yours, they have hypnotized you with media into believing that the debt is now on your back.

The answer is to confiscate the money of the secret Hedge Fund billionaires to cover their gambling losses and seek retribution if they can not.

The rich do not want to lose their fortune garnered by fraud, loans, bribery and extortion. They want you to pay it to keep their gaming rooms open and finish the next hand.

Bankrupt and foreclose on the super wealthy, THAT IS UNHEARD OF!!
well it is not. We did it to losers in war and losers in the 30's crash.


They have tried to distract us all with trying to make this crises all about the sub prime mortgage fraud. They blame us for ever taking their loans. GET THIS, even if we were to blame for their bundling of bad mortgages and selling them like a corn commodity,
that whole thing is only a TENTH of the entire Wall St. gambling losses.

Peter Sellers: Does your derivitive bite?
clerk: no
Sellers: CHOMP ow ow ow I thought you said your derivitive did not bite?
clerk: thats not my derivitive.

In Feynman succinctness...Its not your debt.



The new trillionaires have your money, what can be found of it.

That is one of the 3 great Wall St. lies

1 YOUR money is gone.
2 It is perfectly legal.
3 Regulate? Just trust us.

so, what ever happened on Wall st ain't capitalism.

To this day there is not one aspect of Wall st that isn;t tainted by fraud, lies, cheats, theft, extortion, bribery and when need be...murder.

The open secret is that the stock market is computerized under the direct control of Hedge fund managers who can cause the market to rise or fall by 300 points in less than 10 minutes. They are doing, what I was taught in my early days, somthing called churning but on a market wide basis. PErhaps you remember the day they tested their new software and no one could explain how or why the market fell by 300 points and rebounded in 15 minutes.


Remember, its not your debt. It was an invention by Wall St.

IF anyone had the balls to start the confiscation process of the several hundred who gained the most by fraud in Wall st and the opaque

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 10:27 PM

continuing from prior post ... Hedge funds, which are more secret than gov atomic labs, that person would be a hero of the century.

Wall st is saying
Pay all our debts

All we are saying
is thats not our debt.


I for one will not accept their premise that we are either to blame or respondsible for their gambling debts.

There are simple solutions to the problem but it does involve a group of wealthy people who today have more resources than 1,000 James Bond meglomaniac Villians all rolled into one.

These folks have their own Radio TV, Satillites and access to government branchs of the CIA, DOD and State Dept.


IF you still think that BIlderberg meetings for billionaires was not conspiratorial to the ends we see today, I have time share in Florida for you.

Good luck, do the good work, and get your facts straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 10:46 PM

PIGS

P ortugal
I taly
G reece
S pain

are the next to seek immunity and bail outs.

Guess who helped Greece lie on their application to the EU with accounting fraud? Henry Paulson of Goldman Sachs.

The breadth and scope of what GOldman did internationally, and then place bets on the assured failures of their set up victims/marks is beyond belief, but its here. All the evil in the mud hatched out and the mutant creatures spawned look like their daddy, Goldman Sachs and thier cronies and minions..

Perhaps you have seen the prime time movies about Wall St, some depicting Henry Paulson and the usual gang of gangsters.

I assure you he is not the genial gentle concerned person that the actors depicted. Nor are the others. First they laughed at you as bottom feeders and peasants and unwashed. Then they feared for their own fortunes as in fighting with Lehman led to the house of cards fall in a week.


I will forgo ranting and leave you with the chant.

Wall St. is saying payall our debts
All we are saying is thats not OUR debt.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:12 AM

Etan has been with OWS since the beginning, Bobert. He wrote on Mudcat a good while back and then a month ago seeking help with lyrics to the melody of Which Side Are You On. Mark Ross and I contributed 4 and 3 stanzas respectively, and Etan added two others in a flurry of internet activity, he being in NYC, Mark out in Oregon and me in Quebec. The stanzas were put in the following sequence on that afternoon of October 3, 2011. He then printed the lyrics and distributed them to some singers in the occupied zone, some buskers in Manhattan, and I heard a few days back that Pete and Tao sang some of the stanzas when they paid a visit to OWS. He's a good man, a statement Mark Ross would be willing to back up.


Which Side Are You On: 2011

Lyrics by E Ben-Ami, M Ross and B Murdoch


Come all you brave occupiers,
There's a truth that I must tell,
If we don't fight for our country,
We'll see it go to hell.

Oh, people can you stand it,            
Tell me if you can
Will we fight here out on the street
Or beg with cap in hand?

We came here for liberty                  
To change a damned disgrace
Walked across the Brooklyn Bridge
Got netted and got maced.

There's a place in New York City         
Where the money goes round & round
But for 99ers in the street
None of that will trickle down

What Wall Street does is evil
But they keep it out of sight
Money goes from their left hand
Directly to their right

The politicos and the bankers            
Are having too much fun
We're out here on the street today
To put them on the run

Tell them up in Washington               
Let them hear it 'cross the land
We've been too long divided
United we'll make our stand

You say you love this country,               
I hope to God that's true,
But do you think those politicians,
Give a damn for you.

We send our deepest thanks to you                  
We know you will not fall
The cops could take us one by one
But they sure can't take us all

Who wrote which specific stanza was never important to any of us. Besides, we edited each other's stuff and that's what we got. It took 1 1/2 hours start to finish because Etan needed the song to sing next day to the people at the OWS encampment. He definitely does have credentials. fyi

BM

PS There was another thread a month back on which some of the stanzas appeared. I can never find anything once it's not on the screen, so where it went is anybody's guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:22 AM

There are two things that need to be highlighted which are ticking time bombs regarding OWS that need to be defused before harm comes to the emerging movement.

1 The propoganda rhetoric that OWS is at its a core an anti capitalist movement is a potentially harmful definition. This accusation sends everyone down the wrong road that could result in a horrendous crash. BBC is calling their protestors anti capitalist. I have heard the US media in lock step with this talking point of anti capitalist demonstrators. Sticks and stones and all the patently absurd associations being placed on OWS by the 1% owned media have no staying power but "anti capitalist" could have impliocations that might make it difficult to ever overcome.

   What Wall St. practiced was not remotely connected to capitalism.
One could read the book Super Capitalism to gain more insight.
It was fraud extortion and global larceny. From a psycholinguistic stand point many great causes have been greatly harmed by deliberate redefinitions such as card carrying liberal phrases that equated liberalism to communism to the degree that liberalism was renamed as progressive. Golbal warming was redefined as climate change. ect.

If anything OWS seeks an awareness of how Wall st perverted capitalism. In a sense OWS can point a spotlight at preserving the best of capitalism by exposing the depraved twisting of it by recent wall st crimes. Being a defender of a wise form of capitalism is certainly more uniting than divisive.

2 The second point is most important. Educating people to the 3 Wall st lies is critical. The 1st lie is that what was done was legal, the second lie is that our money was lost. and the third is that only they can "unwind" all the problems to compicated for us mortals.

We must not play on their fild of definitions and paradigms.
The 1% just wants to keep their casino open to perpetuate the wholesale theft. We must not assume money equates directly to a ower that is forever above the law.

A Nuremberg like trial regarding great deliberate financial crimes of war against the world must enter the conversation. Not that justice would be achieved merely by a trial but that it is the instrument that can begin to make reparations by confiscating the stolen assets back from Wall St. The focus of the trial is not to prop up some scape goats but to toliterally hold upwards to a thousand criminal participants over a period of years. The enablers of Wall St crimes, the inventors of their weapons of financial destruction, the lawyers that helped hide crimes and the Owner investors of Hedge Fund hierarchies need to be brought to court. The more perps we bring in the more likely that lawyers will turn on thier employers, wives on the crooks, minions on the middlemen execs.
If confiscation of stolen money is succesful, the 1% will call it redistrubution of wealth but we should call it evidence.


In short OWS requires a definition as defenders of good capitalism and not destroyers of capitalism, It was wall st who did the destruction

There needs to be hopeful talk of calling for a global trial which will expose more about the harm Wall St did on a global scale, for how much money and for whom they took orders.


The third goal can soon follow of canceling all the insurance bought on credit and all the bets made with no money down...all of those virtually imaginary and invented bets need to be deemed null and void. Those bets like CDOs and swaps and insurance bought from AIG with no money down etc.   If done - 30 trillion dollars or more will be wiped from the ledger. Naturally the wealthy want to keep those bets open and keep playing their hand, but the world can afford their pleasure of a casino that sinks nations with rigged machines.


I welcome input here, I am anxious to hear from serious thinkers and common "sensers" alike.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:28 AM

Get the effing computers OUT of stock exchanges and go back to ticker tape. Tax each and every transaction. People caught using illegal means to manipulate the market get automatic life in jail after paying back what they ripped off. No more off-shore banking. No more tax havens.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:01 PM

It seems it will take a lot of work to overcome the mindset that wall st debts are the 99%'s debt.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:24 PM

Yeah, I love hearing the right wing accuse the 99% of being communists for supporting Social Security yet the rich have had all their screw up socialized...

If the internet can level the playing field against Boss Hog's BIG MEDIA propaganda machine then things are about to change...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 04:50 PM

This is getting more "Pythonesque" every day.

Is it to be the "Judean peoples front", or the "Peoples front of Judea"

That is the question!.......:0)



Seriously, dont excuse Capitalism, the nice stuff always leads to the heavy stuff and we are in the heavy stuff up to our necks.

Get serious,you well intentioned "liberals" are wasting time.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:10 PM

2 choices, Ake...

"Deliverance" or not...

You might like "Deliverance"... I don't...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:15 PM

The police are beginning to sweep the streets of these nuisances.
As soon as the cold weather hits, they will retire to their burrows.
Protesters arrested in Austin, Portland, Tacoma, Denver, etc.
A headline in a Calgary paper calls for their removal from Olympic Plaza in the downtown area.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM

Dont fancy deliverence Bob!

I advocate unity.....isolate the political class, stop seeing our brothers and sisters as the "enemy".

A politically motivated minority seeking confrontation with a fearful, confused majority, will be swiftly liquidated!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:19 PM

I don't think the OWS folks are "fearful and confused," Ake. The folks I've talked to know exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. And there are a LOT of them. Not all of them are actually out there--physically. But they are THERE, never doubt that.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:46 PM

Yes, Q, in a fascists and militaristic state, you can be 100% correct and still lose... The fascists will do as they always have... We understand this reality... Mubarak and Ghadaffi didn't go quietly either...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

Don Firth: "I don't think the OWS folks are "fearful and confused," Ake......"


Only Bobert and I am!


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

Its all about the social media folks.


Whoever controls the media controls the people.

So if the people control their own media, they become empowered.


Dividing the people and isolating them is the other way of controlling people.

Social Media connects people together.


Finally, a capitalist is not a person who follows any ideology.

A capitalist is one who owns the capital.

i.e. the 1%

(its in the dictionary)


So if the 1% own most of the capital, and if the 1% need to be properly taxed, and if the 1% need to be regulated better, then it is linguistically accurate to say that the capitalists are the focus of these demos.

It isn't necessarily socialism, because - like the riots - it isn't about any kind of prescriptive ideology - its organic and issues based - one issue at a time.

Just sayin ...


And Q, if you think that the social media revolution is just a fad, you clearly have your head in the sand.

We don't know how its gonna pan out, but we live in fast changing times. The power is coming to the people and we have only seen the tiniest glimpse of what it is capable of.

And there is nothing that can be done to stop it - just like with music piracy - you shut one thing down, and another springs up - you make one thing inaccessible and another way of getting there springs up ...

... the grapevine has gone fibre optic ...

... the collective conscious has developed neural pathways ...

I can't see how reactionary thought can survive unless a new fascist movement is engineered.

... it may happen yet ... it might be the only way to keep the people down ...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:05 PM

Yeah, Lox... I agree that OWS has overridden the huge corporate media propaganda machine called BIG MEDIA...

I am getting concerned that Boss Hog is looking at a play out of the Ghadaffi playbook with his militaristic responses of late...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:10 PM

Don ...sorry, you are wrong. The people who want to change the system are much in the minority.....its important to recognise that.
We are STILL relatively affluent, we will not be willing to face the issues for a decade at least, and by that time the UK and US, will probably have been converted to "Police States"

Unity is the only way, Unity with the "fearful and confused" majority.......not OWS btw, they are just "confused" :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:13 PM

No, ake... If you go down the list of things that OWS wants, the polling of the American people are firmly behind them ***all***... So, it is you who is wrong... Not Don...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:29 PM

"Unity is the only way, Unity with the "fearful and confused" majority.......not OWS btw, they are just "confused" :0)"

Before OWS, Ake, what exactly was the so-called majority doing? That's a serious question I'd love an answer to. Looks to me like the 'majority' hasn't been doing a damned thing other than being a majority. So help me out here and explain, if you'd be so kind. I am trying to understand where you are coming from on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:30 PM

Here is Dennis Kucinich's latest comment on the Occupy Wall Street movement, sent out by email in the last couple of days:

Occupy

Dear Friends,

An Iraq War veteran who survived two tours of duty gets his skull fractured in ... Oakland!
53 activists arrested in Atlanta. SWAT teams deployed to boot out peaceful protesters.

Recent actions against Occupy protesters are irresponsible and tragic. They're an assault on our democracy. These protesters are bravely exercising their right to freedom of expression, to bring attention to a political and economic system that's rigged against most Americans. I stand with them; and, all Americans -- left and right -- should join me in protecting their freedom to non-violently create change.

This isn't a Democratic or Republican movement. It's not about one party or one policy. It's about standing up to a financial system that's completely backwards. Wall Street banks get billions in bailouts and emerge with massive profits. Most Americans see a program of austerity in a painful economic climate -- benefit cuts, high unemployment, declining wages, and crumbling infrastructure. Congress moved swiftly to "save" banks (something I strongly opposed), and now Congress is paralyzed, unable to create jobs and to save our middle class.

It's no surprise Americans are standing up. Our country's economic policies have consolidated and accelerated wealth to the top. One percent of Americans now control 42% of our wealth. It's not radical to think this is out of balance or to demand a government that is of the people and for the people. I've been to these protests, and I can tell you they're filled with honest, hard working Americans who are concerned with the direction of our country and our economic future.

I am deeply concerned. I'm concerned about an economic system which tethers job creation to China and big banks. We shouldn't have to borrow money from China -- or Japan or South Korea -- to get out of this ditch. We should stop the Fed from giving billions to the big banks. We have to take back the power to manage our own economy, to regain control over our monetary system, consistent with the U.S. Constitution. That's why, one month ago, I introduced the National Emergency Employment Defense (NEED) Act. The legislation would put the Federal Reserve under the Department of the Treasury, and it would help us recapture control of our financial system. As part of the NEED Act, Congress would use its constitutional power to invest in America, creating millions of jobs by putting billions of dollars directly into circulation. And since this money is adding real, tangible value to our national wealth, it will not generate inflation.

We need a financial system that is of the people and for the people. We need to take it back from the big banks. We need economic and social justice. I will continue to support the Occupy movement. I will continue to fight for legislation, including the NEED Act, that sets America on a path of jobs for all, health care for all, education for all, retirement security for all, and peace.

Let's keep this movement alive. Let's keep fighting for economic and social justice. Keep occupying Wall Street. And, with your help, I'll keep occupying Congress.

With respect,


Dennis

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM

Dennis has always had it correct...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM

Greetings:

Marilyn and I just spent part of another day at the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Zuccotti Park, New York City, and if I'm feeling well enough after a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning we will go back there again.

One can tell that the Occupy movement is obviously being taking seriously just by the viciousness and frequency of the rumors, distortions, and outright lies told about it. Among these are:

• The movement is racist and/or it is anti-Semitic. Blacks, Asians, and Latinos have all been made to feel unwelcome, while Jews have been harassed, ridiculed, and accused of being the enemy.

• The movement was started by a bunch of spoiled trust fund kids who feel guilty about their wealth and/or hate their parents.

• The movement is secretly controlled by George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Big Labor, and/or Barack Obama.

• The American Nazi Party is behind it. So is the Communist Party USA, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Lyndon Larouche, Ron Paul, remnants of the KGB, and a secret team within the CIA.

• Its participants have been armed with AK47s, they have initiated attacks on the police, and they have spit upon men and women in uniform.

• And of course, its participants are giving drugs to and/or having sex with minors. There have even been some underage girls forced or tricked into prostitution.

So what's next? Kidnapping the Lindbergh baby?

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:42 PM

'The view always looks the same to everyone except the lead dog.'

Thank you once again, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 03:58 AM

Sorry if I sounded patronising B.
I suppose what I'm saying, is that I've been against the system most of my life, my comrades and I have had very little help from the "liberals" who seems to be flocking to this new movement.
In fact they always treated "radicals" as their enemy.
I dont think most of the OWS people really understand the problems involved, or the reality of the situation.

This is not Libya, or Egypt....This is a serious,organised and well armed state with a "democratic mandate"(yes, I know), but that will be thrown at you just as it was thrown at us.
The Media are having a bit of fun and creating stories at the moment, but they are controlled by the powers you are opposing and soon they will start the hate campaign.

Change will not be achieved overnight, or even in a generation in this type of society, when most people still believe that they have a stake in its continuance.
Confronting the system will certainly set the majority against you, and they will be bolstered by the media.
It has all happened before, we must realise as I have done, that this evil system is never going to vanish with the next sunrise...and that none of us are going to see its passing....But we can make a start by understanding how this system works and refusing to be divided politically by the tactics it uses....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:52 AM

One thing that Boss Hog has at his disposal, Steve, is a 100% lock on BOG MEDIA which he uses as his propaganda mill... But it goes well beyond that... The crooks have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of hired blog/goons who get paid to sit in front of their computers and put out as much bullshit propaganda as they can think of...

I go to the Washington Post discussions every day and I could name the folks who are being paid to highjack threads and propagate lies... I'd like to know how much $$$ Boss Hog pumps into his overall propaganda every day... I'd really like to know that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:43 AM

Steve,
..or all of the above.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:04 PM

Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the
best patients to operate on.

The first surgeon, from New York , says, "I like to see
accountants on my operating table because when you open them
up, everything inside is numbered.."

The second , from Chicago , responds, "Yeah, but you should
try electricians !   Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon, from Dallas , says, "No, I really think
librarians are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical
order"

The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: "You know,
I like construction workers ... Those guys always understand when
you have a few parts left over."

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington DC , shut them all up when he observed:
"You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on.
There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine. Plus, the head and the ass are interchangeable.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:01 PM

Boom Boom!! :0).....very funny Sanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:09 PM

Ake, thank you very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Suffet
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 06:27 PM

Greeting:

I spent another day at the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Zuccotti Park in New York City, mostly singing labor songs, but also singing a few songs from the Civil Rights Movement, as well as leading a small group in singing Merle Travis's Sixteen Tons. "Another day older and deeper in debt..." is not some historical artifact. The only thing that has changed in that Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, et al. have replaced the company store.

Among the people who were listening and singing along today were several from the OWS Labor Working Group, men and women active in various unions. They particularly enjoyed my song Union Warriors and asked for a recording and a printed copy of the lyrics, both of which I was able to give them. They also asked if I would be interested in singing it in a scheduled performance to be arranged, to which I answered "Of course." What else could I say?

Meanwhile, let me add that OWS has not been problem free. It has faced and still faces many challenges. Among these are sanitation, security, community relations, dealing with the police and other authorities, and dealing with the weather. But as difficult as these may be, the OWS community has in each instance risen to the challenge in a humane, respectful, serious, and democratic way that considers the importance of both process and product. I am impressed, and I am not one who is easily impressed.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM

Steve-
Total agreement. The people who buy into the Faux News characterizations you listed have NOT been out here.
They are talking out their asses.
Stay warm and dry.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:30 PM

Yup, the most vocal critics of OWS know nothing about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 12:19 AM

The very basic problem with this whole thing, is that the 'protesters' are protesting just Wall Street alone, and not the corrupt politicians of BOTH parties(see Kucinich letter, and what I've been saying for months), who facilitate the screwing of the American public. The other problem is, that these 'protesters' are actually weakening the validity of their complaints by widespread lameness.
The 'left' has 'seized the moment', much akin to the Tea party...but their real support won't come from where they think it should. The unions will give limited support, because their funds ARE tied up in Wall Street, and have corrupted both politicians and bankers as well! So how far will this go?....till violence, weather, or just lameness?
From a lot of press coverage, a lot of these people don't even know doodily-squat about anything deeper than shallow participation....and as Steve's post, some of the people who he listed ARE supporting the 'movement'...but not for the desired reasons, that the 'movement', is about.
It appears that other than a bunch of people showing up, the message is obscured, by the lightweights.
But, I will say this, that, at least the is attention being focused on at least PART of the problem.
As far as its effectiveness.....well, it would help if they weren't 'just occupying'...but had a more realistic goal, and aimed it at the right direction....with people who might want to get a clue!
Otherwise, it will lose it's effective message.....we've seen it before, in regards to other 'causes'.
Anyway, 'HI!'.....I was out of town on a 'bidness twip'..

GfS