BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM

Bobert,

So, if the Klan decides to demonstrate around someone's house and family because they do not like what someone in that house is doing ( such as civil rights work) YOU would think it ok???


I see an attempt to frighten and intimidate in BOTH cases Klan and OWS. And BOTH are wrong, when that line ( of property) is crossed. The difference between the SEIU actions and those of a Klan mob are in the color of the costumes. I recall several cases in the 60's of Klan being escorted by local ( sympathetic ) police to rallies intended to intimidate those that they disagreed with.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 11:45 AM

"The problem here is one of changing an entire national conversation and without the OSW movement a billion letters and door knocking won't do that... OWS is out here loosening up the propaganda filled minds and that is long overdue..."

Well said, Bobert.

#########################################

BB, comparing the actions of the KKK with the actions of OWS indicates that your 'sense of proportion' seems to be a bit outta whack I think. It's just a slur and not a comparison. Address instead the photographers in the street without permits to be there and the arrest of two OWS supporters who by accident put foot on the street. Don't that seem just a bit more outta whack to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 12:08 PM

The arrest of the two OWS was IMO wrong.

The FAILURE to arrest the SEIU who intimidated the 14 year old son of a BoA VP in his home is also, IMO wrong.

999, Are you saying that there should be one set of laws that apply to those you agree with, and another that apply to those you disagree with???

I consider that BOTH the Klan and the SEIU , when they overstep the boundaries of the law, should be arrested and charged. If either stays within the law, they should not be arrested, no matter how I disagree with them. Intimidation in support of something I agree with is still intimidation.

Yet it seems many here do not agree with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 12:25 PM

Bruce, I can't ever recall an example of a Klan member ever being arrested and charged for just standing on someone's lawn. In fact there are tens of thousands of examples of them getting away with much much worse. Do you think that boy was in danger of a lynching? Was there property damage from a burning cross, with the treat of lynching? Was a rock thrown through the window with the implied threat of lynching? Were little girls firebombed in their church? I didn't think so.

Don't immediately end this line of argument because it is racist and offensive. Which it is. Knock it off because it makes you look like and insensitive idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 12:31 PM

jts,

How many of YOUR relatives have had their homes or stores burned out by a racist mob, and then been told that they had the wrong skin color to get any government aid to rebuild??

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 12:47 PM

." In fact there are tens of thousands of examples of them getting away with much much worse."


Which YOU imply , by claiming special rules for those you support, would be ok as long as you agree with their goals.



MY point is that in order to apply the law to others it has to apply to YOU as well. If you want to have exceptions for what YOU like, you have no right to complain when others get those exceptions because someone supports what THEY like.

Not a matter of MY like or dislike, but one of fairness. Would YOU like the KKK to decide what is or is not intimidation? I WOULD NOT- Therefore, I do not want YOU deciding that the law only applies to those you dislike.

As to my choice of the Klan as an example, it was Bobert who declared ME responsible for lynchings- so when you get him to apologize, I can stop comparing what he advocates to the Klan. Until then, when he advocates the same tactics, or allows them to be used to support HIS cause without complaint I will call him on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 12:50 PM

Bearded Bruce: "...I consider that BOTH the Klan and the SEIU , when they overstep the boundaries of the law, should be arrested and charged. If either stays within the law, they should not be arrested, no matter how I disagree with them. Intimidation in support of something I agree with is still intimidation.

Yet it seems many here do not agree with that."

I fully agree!..Not only that, the FAILURE or 'purposeful ignoring' of looking at the 'Corzine Corruption' where $600 MILLION was 'lost'; the Solyndra fraud, $535 million, and Solyndra executives were awarded quarterly bonuses worth up to $60,000 apiece earlier this year as the California solar-panel company headed for bankruptcy, Beacon Power Corp. @ $43 million; Jeff Immelt, being named 'Jobs Czar', and given $550 Billion to start jobs in CHINA!.. (as he dodges paying taxes here, 'Fast and Furious' to supply guns for the administrations drug buddies;....while 'funded protestors' march around the country wanting their 'debts forgiven'(Though I do agree that SOME attention has been called to the Wall Street/political corruption abuses); The Fed passing out TRILLIONS of taxpayer backed loan handouts all over the world, and NOT disclosing where, or to who; corporate bailouts, in the TRILLIONS(by both parties;........and people who 'like' THIS administration because they are Democrats make stupid lame excuses for them, WHILE ALLEGEDLY 'supporting' their bitches!!!????....
What a bunch of LAME, hypocritical, phony, bullshitters!!!!!!

It's time to get to the root cause, folks!...and quit making asses of yourselves!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:08 PM

OH!!...and there's a lot more!!!...but to minimize this bullshit down to the 'Klan' vs. the treatment of the OWS crowd, is a best, absolute asshole nonsense!! The 'so-called left' will shift the REAL issues into these microbial 'hate' and emotional topics...then try to slam you, with rhetoric, portraying those who have their fingers on the pulse, with being 'socially unjust'!!! WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:33 PM

CORRECTION!: Corzine 'lost' $663 Million, not $600 million.(besides corruptly screwing the people of New Jersey out of BILLIONS, while he was governor)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:38 PM

Okay, bruce... Here's the deal...

The Klan has a 130 year history of violence and murder...

OWS is non violent...

Any more illogical arguments???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:41 PM

Bobert

Here's the score:

YOU blame the right for lynchings- "Y'all"

YOU call the Tea Party Racist.

YOU are proposing the same kind of actions that the Klan used- thus YOU have the problem, not me.

If you blame me for lynchings, I will blame you for YOUR OWN CALLS FOR ACTION in violation of the law.

Cappish?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:43 PM

Bobert, AS I POINTED OUT,

The OWS is being co-opted by small groups that ARE NOT NON-VIOLENT!!!

I am sure there were segregationists that were non-violent- Can YOU remember any? THAT is what the OWS will become, when you propose intimidation of those you disagree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:00 PM

BB, comparing the actions of the KKK with the actions of OWS indicates that your 'sense of proportion' seems to be a bit outta whack...

"Bit outta whack", Bobert?? Hardly. It shows that he's a complete and utter frackin' IDIOT to propound somethindg so absurd.

Beardie is also the guy that, in the thread about cash only for second-hand goods, wanted us to know that the sponsor of the bill was a Dumb Ni--er.

Gimmie a break.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM

"Beardie is also the guy that, in the thread about cash only for second-hand goods, wanted us to know that the sponsor of the bill was a Dumb Ni--er."

Care to show that, or do I ask you to removed from Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:13 PM

Greg F's comment is an out and out lie, and shows what kind of a person he is.

MUDELF= Please remove Greg F.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:18 PM

sorry, computer went haywire.

Bobert, I suggest you curb your dog, Greg F. If he continues to make such false claims, it will detract from the purpose of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:23 PM

Elves don't like to be told what to do, just an FYI, especially by folks that are not logged in. Gets them cranky.

And why would you want it removed? It so clearly shows what he is, so I feel like we should leave it as a warning for the next person that engages him. Truly, though, I would hope it would convince them NOT to engage him.

I just popped in because I its getting around that the klan was being discussed in the Wall Street thread and I just had to see how that connection was made. As a student of thread creep this one intrigued me.

I see now. You know, anything is possible when you inject some idiocy. I'm disappointed because I assumed that 2 out of 3 of you folks here were bigger and better than being drawn in like that.

Carry on, just know that these such flammable topics are aloft and to tread lightly so we don't have so much work to do back here in the shop. It's tiring to clean up all that spilled garbage, and idiots always clog our shop vac.

We have to watch this stupid thread now, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM

Very well, Max. But Gred F has crossed the line, bigtime. This is an outright lie, as can be seen by the thead in question THAT I DID NOT POST TO until today.


If this is the kind of person who encourages supporting OWS, I fail to see why ANYONE should give them any support whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM

For Max and Beardie's benefit, from the archives:

Subject: RE: BS: Louisiana Makes It Illegal To Use Cash
From: pdq - PM
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 07:37 PM

Just for the record, the idiot behind this bill is a member of the Louisiana House of Representitives.

He is Black and a Democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:44 PM

APOLOGIES TO BEARDIE!

I CONFUSED HIM WITH HIS FELLOW-TRAVELLER PDQ, and I freely admit my error.

HOWEVER, his comparing OWS with the KLAN is STILL idiotic and uncalled for.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:48 PM

Your apology is NOT accepted.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:52 PM

From OccupyWallStreet.org:

{Note that this is not an official statement since we don't have officials. It is the opinion of one, but well spoken and widely endorsed and acted upon}

"The Occupy Movement has stated that it is Non-Violent. While this has remained overwhelmingly true, there is, undeniably, a violent element that is using OWS as a place to hide. Smashed windows, paint on buildings, and even horrifically violent stories of rape are coming out of the encampments.

The truth of it is that once any kind of violent element emerges from the movement, the movement ceases to be about stopping corruption and greed and becomes a movement about stopping violence. This simply must be the case. People will look at the violence within our movement and point to it in order to damn us. Therefore, when violence happens from the movement, we must pause and deal with it before we do anything else.

What this means is that there must be an expectation of self enforcement. We have little difficulty standing in front of a police barricade and shouting "Shame Shame Shame" to Police officers who overstep their bounds, and abuse their power. What we haven't come to realize is that we too have power that we can abuse, and some of us do abuse that power.

The moment a person engages in a violent act, they are no longer part of the movement. They are part of the problem. Even more then that, they are the most important problem. If you have gathered in order to protest a banking institution, or a government official, that protest ceases and you should begin protesting against their violent act, instantly. You should be accepting that the protest is capable of changing in this regard, as internal violence is even more dangerous than external violence.

If you see someone spraying paint on the side of a building, you should stop and begin crying "Shame Shame Shame" at them. Whip out those video cameras. Condemn their Violence. Do not allow them to hide in our numbers.

Go even farther. Give the videos of the individuals who do violence to the Police. Report the violence to the media outlets directly. Show those institutions how hard we are working to destroy violence internally. Build a trust between yourselves and those who enforce and report on these things.


Go even farther. Publicly condemn all violence done by your movement, and by others to your movement. This should be topic one in all General Assemblies; to create a statement that you can give to all media outlets condemning the violence done. This should be done every single time a violent act happens that is even remotely connected to the movement. We must show the world that we are entirely intolerant of violence, in all forms. We must show the world that we are more then willing to work with them in order to shine a light on our own internal violence.

Go Even Farther. Set up a working group to educate people about what Non-Violence is. Create a Library filled with works that show Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Make us the primary source of Non-Violent Education.

This movement cannot become perceived as a violent movement. That should be the number one goal, before anything else. Violence is catalyzing and shocking. We need to respond to it with equal fervour, while remaining entirely Non-Violent. We must be able to stand our ground and say to those who detract "We have worked hard with Police Officials and Media outlets to destroy our own violence. We have released statement after statement condemning each individual act of violence. We have turned violent offenders over to Police Officials, and made those people known to all. What more would you like?"

If we are to say we are Non-Violent, we must fight to prove it."

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:54 PM

I support freedom to believe and freedom to express.

Bruce, you're proving my theory that given enough time and words you can lose the favor of those who are agreeing with you.

Personally, I wouldn't let my mind go to "type of person" let alone write it into the historical record and sign it as you just did here. That's getting mighty close to argumentum ad hominem and an indication that you are running low on ammunition.

Then again, if this is the type of person who wastes their time in BS threads...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:55 PM

Good post, Guest TIA. I agree with all of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:58 PM

Gotta do it guys, its getting stupid. Thread closed. Keep your heads next time will you?

Greg and Bruce, if I find that the two of you are chasing each other around the threads bashing heads, I will have to get involved. Take it to email or meet in an alley somewhere, NOT MY SITE.