Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:39 PM

sorry about the delay that akenaton , I actually have to work for a living, seemingly unlike some..who apparently have so much time to post here

The flag is there, why is it there? open to interpretation, who put it there, again open to interpretation, even the Daily Mail says that...try actually reading the article at some point...if you can

Oh and do try consulting other sources beside The Daily Mail, comparison is always a useful thing

apparently even SKY admits to the existence of moderate Islamists

apparently even SKY admits to the existence of moderate Islamists

as does The Daily Mail

memo top some: time to get with the programme

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM

Silenced by Keith it seems.

Dont think Ive ever seen a "moderate" Islamist?
They dont take prisoners, do they?

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 03:38 AM

Was the Daily Mail wrong or right about the flag BTNG?

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:47 PM

Charley, they did, but to some, unfortunately, Islamics are Islamics terrorists to a person.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:37 PM

Steady, lads!

By the way I thought I read or head somewhere that it was the "moderate Islamics" who won the plurality of votes in Tunisia.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:34 PM

so to be name called by you is harmless...funny in a strange way, laughing at you not with you

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:33 PM

only because I don't agree with your narrow, twisted, Daily Mail view of the world

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:25 PM

BTNG - you really are clueless.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 10:14 PM

Right Ake, people (especially Muslims) shouldn't have the right to elect their own government......

I had to read this three times to make sure I'd read it right....

just who the hell do you think you are? You are in no position to judge anyone or anything.........

and then I realise...both you and akenaton get your material from the Daily Mail...how pathetic is that?

bobad and akenaton separated at birth

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 07:00 PM

""I thought all the death and destruction that we brought to Libya, was in the cause of "freedom and democracy"?......"""

Where did you ever get that nieve idea from? If there were no oil, I suspect that few governments involved would care.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 06:33 PM

An unfortunate consequence of democracy is the election of groups with whom we may disagree.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:47 PM

I thought all the death and destruction that we brought to Libya, was in the cause of "freedom and democracy"?......What a sick joke!

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

Right Ake, people (especially Muslims) shouldn't have the right to elect their own government, after all look at all the paradises that were and are being ruled by dictators.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 04:56 PM

All will be revealed shortly.
Tunisia.....Islamic Party elected.
Egypt.......any one want to lay me odds on a secular Party gaining power?

Libya.....another basket case.....no one would dare bet against an extreme Islamic govt.

Cameron and Sarkosy should be sent to the Hague immediately.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 01:54 PM

These photos were posted on Al Jazeera several weeks ago. I saw a Jolly Roger flying in my neighbourhood recently - I guess that means we're in for it now.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 01:48 PM

akenaton, akenaton ......oh dear.....anyone, I mean anyone, who considers the Daily Mail to be a reliable source of news, seriously needs their head examining, it's rather like well...News Of The World, isn't it...being a reliable periodical, when we all know the reverse is true. Oh, I suppose the Daily Mail IS a reliable source of news, if...you're right wing wing nut.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 01:16 PM

Well dont say I didn't warn you warriors!
Black Flag of Al Quaeda over Libya

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:06 AM

Just when I was wondering how Roy Palmer related to this thread, BTNG had to come in and post a rational explanation. Oh well.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:49 PM

In the early "oil days" Bunker Hunt acquired two libyan oil leases tracts #2 and #65. Because he was in poor financial shape, due to drilling dry wells in Pakistan, he sold a half the interest in tract #65 to BP.

In 1961 the largest oilfield in Africa (to that date) was discovered on tract #65. Bunker's half interest in that tract was valued at about $7 billion dollars, making him the richest private individual in the world at age 35.

Ghadaffi's coup resulted in oil companies paying a 51 percent royality. Libya, under Ghadaffi, was the first oil producing country to take on "big oil" and win concessions. This was instrumental in the formation of OPEC, and the high oil prices we have today.

So, does one suspect the oil crowd was/is sorry to see Ghadaffi go? I suspect they even chipped in a few gold and silver bars somewhere on the sly, to make it happen. It's my conspiracy theory, anyway.:)

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:12 PM

I'll be surprised...sounds like conspiracy theories to me..Oh I've no doubt the oil companies will be right in there...nothing to be done about that, it's a fact of life, but I doubt the threat of further attacks if there's no compliance on Libya's part

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:41 PM

"sure" ? Yep, fer sure. Just stay tuned.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:19 PM

oops previous post was supposed to go on the Singing Songs You Don't Agree With thread LOL :-D

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:18 PM

Would that be the Roy Palmer who edited The Oxford Book of Disco Sea Shanties, with an introduction by Jon Boden?

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:57 PM

Libya's Mustafa Abdul Jalil asks NATO to stay longer

The head of Libya's transitional authorities has called for Nato to extend its mission in Libya until the end of the year.

National Transitional Council (NTC) Chairman Mustafa Abdul Jalil said the extension was needed to help Libyans trying to control surplus weapons and to deal with Gaddafi loyalists.

source - BBC

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:57 PM

sure, sure....

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:51 PM

"That does not necessarily mean it will be the same, nor better, nor worse."

Better for BP. They get to renegotiate. And, this time, they WILL get a better deal. Or there will be more cruise missiles.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:58 PM

""sombody else will take his place""

Of course!

Is and has that not (been) the same for any nation/organization throughout history?

However, significant change (good or bad) normally comes from revolution.

That does not necessarily mean it will be the same, nor better, nor worse.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:54 PM

You've got that right, goatfell, someone's already in waiting..

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:43 PM

sombody else will take his place

That's all folks

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:41 AM

still partying in clebtation are you Laban? LOL

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:35 AM

Lower than a donkey or a dog. Not far removed from the mindset that made Ghadaffi think he could exterminate 'the rats' is it? Plus ça change..

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:27 AM

we are lying are we...? ok......if you say so Ali, but beware of what you ask for, it could come back and bite you on your ass..

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:11 AM

Libyans interviewed by Reuters on Tuesday say they're eager to consign Gaddafi to history, no matter how he died.

With every car that drives along the coast road, every tea served in a cafe and every child who toddles down its streets with no knowledge of the huge figure who has just been buried, Tripoli is doing its best to put Gaddafi and his legacy well behind it.

"Throw him in a hole, throw him in the sea, throw him in garbage. No matter," Ali Azzarog, a 47-year-old engineer, said near the port, where ships' horns earlier blared their approval of the news.

"He is lower than a donkey or a dog and only foreigners say that they care about how we killed him. And they are lying."

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

"And if you listen to guys like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul and Stringsinger, etc., doing nothing is the way to go. "

trading with a bloody dictator is alright by you then is it GUEST?

-------------------------------

Absolutely not! I'm happy we supported the Libyan people in their effort to kill the bloody terrorist dictator. And I support President Obama in killing terrorists like Bin Laden and Alwacko.

The Kucinich/Paul crowd would have let Hitler carry on until he got here.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:37 AM

Thank you, Brian. I'll be walking out with you.

BM

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:09 AM

Guest,999

With that particular quote . . . we MUST be related! What a cracker.

Well I won't spend too long supporting my government then.

For me, this thread has run its course. Pardon me if I bow out - all in the interests of energy conservation you understand.

Have fun

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:50 PM

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

Twain

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 11:27 PM

""Those who fight in God's cause will be victorious"

didn't the crusaders say the same thing?

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:19 PM

""This is the epitaph I want on my tomb: "Here lies one of the most intelligent animals who ever appeared on the face of the earth""
Benito Mussolini quote

""Sometimes democracy must be bathed in blood.""
Augusto Pinochet quote

""I want you to know that everything I did, I did for my country"".
Pol Pot quote


""Those who fight in God's cause will be victorious"".
Saddam Hussein

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Brian May
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:06 PM

Also, how did the trial of Saddam end?   Anybody remember?

Suspended sentence wasn't it?

It's amazing how the prospect of oil manages to dissolve the calcium in politicians' backbones isn't it? It also affects their skin, this exudes slime. Altogether a very unsavoury combination.

All the snivelling around Gadaffi, was for that and perhaps to try and keep him away from the influence of AQ.

I really don't think that the west come out of this very well - they run the risk of alienating the very people they say they support by banging on about how Gadaffi was killed.

Sodomised with a stick? I really don't care. His henchmen did far worse when they tortured his opponents.

Civilised? Why on earth would you expect this to be that? Let's face it, politicians would do ANYTHING to gain their own ends.

So the fact Dubya and his cronie Bliar supported him speaks for itself - it shows how discerning they are/were. Now the west will be lining up to rebuild the place (payment in barrels of course). You can imagine Cameron/Sarkozy/Obama elbowing each other out of the way to further their own partisan needs (which after all, is their job).

I so hate politics and its purveyors.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

"And if you listen to guys like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul and Stringsinger, etc., doing nothing is the way to go. "

trading with a bloody dictator is alright by you then is it GUEST?

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:14 PM

It's only a few years since Ghadaffi was declared an example for the Arab world, By George W. It's only a few years since guest of honour Ghadaffi pitched his tent at Nicolas Sarkozy's guest palace for five days while spending a few hundred million on products of the French arms industry. When was it again that the British government didn't see a problem organising the rendition of anti Ghadaffi refugees back to Tripoli? Do we need mention the nights with Silvio Berlusconi and Ghadaffi's 'amazons? Do we need go on at all about this? Let's at least not pretend that it has only recently become known the colonel was a vicious madman.
peter laban , did you know him personally

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:03 PM

"The Nuremberg Trials were a show case for allied governments that damned well knew what was going on in Europe in terms of extermination camps and were quite comfortable letting it happen. That sort of shit does not occur in a vacuum. Same with Ghadaffi. The world knew. It knew. And it did nothing."

And if you listen to guys like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul and Stringsinger, etc., doing nothing is the way to go.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:44 PM

'Aye but the west was still willing to do business with "a vicious madman" while it suited them...let's not forget that either!!'

Well, yes, that was the point I was trying to make.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:07 PM

I have to say I care less than I thought I would, but then again, while the Libyans certainly did *some* of the bombings in the 80's, they were practically the only government *not* involved in killing Daddy... *sigh* -I wouldn't have thought I'd be that shallow. Maybe that had nothing to do with it...

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 12:17 PM

"Let's at least not pretend that it has only recently become known the colonel was a vicious madman."

Aye but the west was still willing to do business with "a vicious madman" while it suited them...let's not forget that either!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:49 AM

(a story which was shamelessly reversed from time to time to reflect the west's immediate interests)

It's only a few years since Ghadaffi was declared an example for the Arab world, By George W. It's only a few years since guest of honour Ghadaffi pitched his tent at Nicolas Sarkozy's guest palace for five days while spending a few hundred million on products of the French arms industry. When was it again that the British government didn't see a problem organising the rendition of anti Ghadaffi refugees back to Tripoli? Do we need mention the nights with Silvio Berlusconi and Ghadaffi's 'amazons? Do we need go on at all about this? Let's at least not pretend that it has only recently become known the colonel was a vicious madman.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:42 AM

The west no more understands the Arab mind today than it did a thousand years ago, mind you the one thing both have in common is the love of money...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The NTC will bear watching very closely for the next while, at this point, I no more trust them than I did Gadhaffi

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:41 AM

What Peter Laban said (twice).

The NTC is a fractious (and already fragmenting) coalition of right-minded people, impetuous youth, opportunists and the full moderate-to-extremist spectrum of Muslims.

Unlike in some other north African and Arab countries, many in Libya are well educated and had comfortable lives before the war. Among them, and among muslims both in and beyond Libya, are very many who were deeply offended by the aftermath of Gadaffi's capture, not least the treatment of his corpse up to and including burial.

For people who like to trough out on vengeance, not a few of whom on this forum live in a country where within living memory innocent people were variously and publicly hanged and burnt to death, the manner of Gadaffi's demise will have been immensely satisfying - reflective of precisely the reptilean brainpower that allows lynchmob law to prosper.

They know little about life under Gadaffi's regime except what they have been told by their western leaders (a story which was shamelessly reversed from time to time to reflect the west's immediate interests) and don't care much what kind of chance the new Libya will have after this catastrophic start.

Subject: RE: Obit: Moammar Ghadaffi (1942-2011)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:33 AM

And then, there was this, reported on a while back now:
The United States of Africa - BBC Report


You wanna take someone out? Fine. But at least have the guts to tell 'your people' why you're REALLY doing it.

Hypocrites R Us rule the day yet again, win 'The War', free 'The People' whilst carrying on ruling the world exactly as they want to see it ruled.....and anyone who crosses their path, good, bad, or a mixture of both gets taken down..down..deeper and down...

unless he's called Mugabe, of course...for he has nothing they want...yet...so he's free to keep on killing his own...

Simples, huh?