Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'

Subject: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Les B
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:37 PM

In a song about a sheepherder from Utah, titled "Granville Pace," there is a reference in the chorus to what sounds like "castle bloat" does anyone know what this is ? I've looked in plant books, but no luck. I'm now wondering if it was a brand name like Arbuckle Coffee?

The chorus goes:

"Dough gobs and boiled flank and castle bloat for tea
an old sheep pelt, a ragged old quilt, were all he furnished me
a frying pan with the handle gone, an old pot to cook maize
that's all in the world you'll ever get when you work for Granville Pace"

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: emily rain
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:15 AM

man, i wish i knew. : )

[insert scatological comment here]

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 07:00 AM

Les, could it possibly be "thistle"? Next time I talk to my dad, in Utah, I'll try to remember to ask him. I grew up in western Colorado with a lot of rambling around in eastern Utah. The most obvious, indigenous "tea" that comes to mind which is readily available out in the wild is a plant called "mormon tea". It is not a type of thistle, but it's possible it had other names we never heard. Here is a link to a page about it wiht a picture.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 08:31 AM

Les--

I'm on the trail of this, but I must go to work for awhile-- I'll try to get back with an entry sometime today (can't guarantee it).

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: GeorgeH
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:08 AM

Perhaps it's Mickysoft's headquarters??

G.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: MMario
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:16 AM

any chance it could be "castile soap" -- ie:the liquid tea-coloured soap......

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: lamarca
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:20 AM

Does anyone here correspond with Hal Cannon? He's the Utah folklorist who collected the song, and might be able to explain it (he's also a member of The Deseret String Band, who recorded the song, and one of the organizers of the Cowboy Poetry gatherings at Elko every year). I'll check his book of cowboy songs when I get home tonight to see if he has an explaination there.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Bert
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:20 AM

A 'bloater' maybe?

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:25 AM

BS warning:what follows is from the depth of my ignorance of the subject. Perhaps it is a disease caught during sieges caused by eating stale food, brackish water, rats, dogs, etc. "Bloaters" are fish so not likely here.
BUT Could it be "cattle" not "castle" if it is of N.American origin? She-who-must-be-obeyed works in an institution devoted to finding cures for Fooot & Mouth etc but I don't think any of her colleagues have ever mentioned anything called cattle bloat, but I believe (from occasional listening to rural radio soap opera The Archers in the past) that cows fed on too much rich new grass swell up and gas (Catspaw's favourite subject!) could be relieved by piercing the belly with that spike on a jack knife that we were told as Boy Scouts was to get stones out of horses' hooves.[Living in an industrial city we didn't get much scope for that- oops, thread creep].Don't suppose that's helped much has it? Sorry!

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:58 AM

RtK, you are right baout the cattle bloating; horses will do the same thing on oats/grain. Vividly etched in my brain is the sight, one morning while waiting for the school bus at about age 12, a hugely bloated and dead cow lying across the road by the neighbour's irrigation ditch. If she's been lighter, she could've doubled as a Macy's Day Parade giant balloon thingy. I've also heard that about sticking them to let it all out, but never seen it done.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Bert
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 11:10 AM

I just can't imagine having a bloated cow for 'tea'.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 01:46 PM

'Cattle Bloat' is not an unlikely name to be given to some indigenous plant which, eaten wet, tends to bloat cattle, but dried and brewed could make herbal tea of a poor quality. Absolutely none of the above is founded on researched fact: it's all conjectural.

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 04:44 PM

Sorry, Roger, I should have addressed you as RtS/ BTW, what is a skiffle? Anything like a tiple?**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: Les B
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 05:23 PM

Yes, Hal Cannon would be the person to contact, since the song was recorded by the Deseret String Band, however, I don't know him. Anybody got his e-mail ?

I thought at first it might be a reference to "Mormon Tea" or "Mexican Tea" as it is apparently often called, but the scientific name for that plant is something like Ephidera and did not seem to fit the puzzle well.

The last word definitely seems to be "bloat" but the first word could be castile, castel, kassel, etc. but none of the plant books I consulted seemed to have a likely match. That's why I'm wondering if it's an old time brand name ?

And yes, I've seen bloated cows, and one time left the lid off the grain barrel when we went to town, and thought my dad was going to blister my butt cause he thought I might have let about a dozen horses get to it. Luckily they didn't bloat, and I was damned glad !!!

Subject: RE: Help: meaning of word 'Castle Bloat'
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:13 PM

To bring this thread up to date.

I finally called Hal Cannon and inquired as to what "castle bloat" was. He said he collected the song from the sheepherder/writer's sister, and wasn't aware that "castle bloat" was any particular plant, but thought it meant "hot air" - ie, prideful talk around the house or castle (or sheep camp).

Now I know, and can go on to other wild goose chases!