BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children

Subject: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

"....We realised we needed to tell our stories......"

From the very people this happened to:

So here they are, telling their stories at a rally...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: gnu
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:48 PM

Let me understand... educate me... the government wants to sell these kids? or is it the parents who want to sell these kids? How can the government sell these kids unless the parents want to sell these kids? How can the parents sell these kids?... I thought that was against the law? I just don't undertsand.

No, I didn't watch the whole video... just enought to get totally confused.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM

gnu, she seems to be on about native children sent to church-run boarding schools, with the blessings of the government, the white man's way is taught, native customs and language are forbidden, and they lose touch with their parents and tribe.
I didn't bother with the youtube. You can cry and wring hands over the past, but a balanced history should be the source.

She already had a thread on this practice, which came to an end over 50 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:45 PM

Similar story in Australia with Aboriginal Children = LOTS of misrepresentation in ALL directions but NOT a good situation for anybody !

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:23 AM

No, it hasn't 'come to an end' at all..that's the entire problem...and 'she' has a name, Lizzie..thank you.

If any of you had even bothered to watch that video, which was only put up on the 10th November, you'd have heard many stories on there....

Also, check out articles on the NPR website about how various States get paid DOUBLE the amount to take American Indian Children into Care, as they are all classed as Special Needs Children.....

The video I posted there was about the terrible damage done by the Catholic Church...the Genocide which still rages today...but hey, that's not important for some of you guys, right? Far more important is simply to spill out your venom to a particular poster..

And you wonder why this is still happening today?   

It's happening, it's been allowed to happen, it's been *buried*, because folks like some in here truly don't give a shit about what has happened here....

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:25 AM

At least Australia has apologised, Leadfingers....Apologised from the bottom of its National Heart...Check it out on Youtube, I'd put the link in, but no-one bothers to even check them out...but that was an apology that it so badly needed to be heard, in Canada and the USA...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:45 AM

It's happening, it's been allowed to happen, it's been *buried*, because folks like some in here truly don't give a shit about what has happened here....

And any forum, particularly one dedicated to music will make how much difference to anyone's fate? OK - It will enable some folk to smugly say 'well, I am doing something' while those who can do something positive will do so without fuss or fanfares.

Lizzie - make a real difference, please. Go over there. Live on a reservation for a while. Help those that need the help and stop complaining that people on the Mudcat do not care. We do, honestly, and to say that we 'don't give a shit' when you know so little about so few of us is a very strange leap of faith.

Now then, apart from watching YouTube videos, getting annoyed and having a go at people we know nothing about, tell us what you want us to do. Preferably lead by example.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:05 AM

What the American Indians, Canada's First Nation People, want, more than anything, is recognition of what ha been done to them. Then, for the mess that has been made of their lives, their culture, to be cleaned up..their respect and pride being given back to them by the very nations who have allowed this to happen in the first place.

You can do this by opening many of the links I put on here, reading or watching them, then passing them on to folks you know, asking them, in turn, to do the same with their friends.

You can talk about it, contact your newspapers, start up pages, cover your FB pages in this information as I have done so with mine........

Then, you will find that people come to you and say thank you for telling them so much of what they had no idea had even happened, or is still happening to this day.

You will find that many of them are Americans.....

You can go over to the Wall of the White House FB page, the FBI too, and inform masses of people, as millions post on those pages, particularly The White House ones....

You can get in contact with many of the Leonard Peltier 'chapters' who are all over Facebook...

You can even contact the producer of some of the CDs about Leonard Peltier...

You can phone up the prison where Leonard currently is, USP Coleman, in Florida.

You can write to him there....

You can bore the pants off people to such an extent that some American Indians will come to you and thank you for what you are doing for their children.

You can take the leads, the links which THEY pass to you, and pass them on to others........

You can recognise in your heart just how DEEPLY so many of these wonderful people are hurting...and how it heals, just a fraction, every time they realise that others care....


What you must NOT do, of course, is sit on internet boards taking no notice of any links, any requests to help, that may be put before you, preferring to use your usual up your own arse comments to try to belittle the very people who are trying to spread the word, for that is most definitely a very wrong thing to do...

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Beer
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:46 AM

"The video I posted there was about the terrible damage done by the Catholic Church...the Genocide which still rages today..."

Lizzie, just want to say that the Canadian government did take a first step in apologizing to the first nations in 2008. Mentioned below.


Copied from Gary's web site

Gary Fjellgaard's Single "I Apologize"

"I Apologize" is dedicated to the First Nation�s victims and survivors of the cultural genocide which occurred in Canada for over a century. No apology can heal the wounds caused by the far reaching effects of the residential school system. I can only add my voice as a member of the generation who allowed this abuse to take place".

http://youtu.be/vpXGOxOHuUU

Gary told me that the "First nation" asked his permission if they could use his song as their healing song. A great honor to Gary.


Taken from Wikipidia: On June 11, 2008, Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized, on behalf of the sitting Cabinet, in front of an audience of Aboriginal delegates, and in an address that was broadcast nationally on the CBC, for the past governments' policies of assimilation.[24] The Prime Minister apologized not only for the known excesses of the residential school system, but for the creation of the system itself.


Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:13 AM

What the American Indians, Canada's First Nation People, want, more than anything, is recognition of what ha been done to them. Then, for the mess that has been made of their lives, their culture, to be cleaned up..their respect and pride being given back to them by the very nations who have allowed this to happen in the first place.

I recognise it.

You can do this by opening many of the links I put on here, reading or watching them, then passing them on to folks you know, asking them, in turn, to do the same with their friends.

I opened a few. The rest seem pretty much the same. I don't pass on requests because I believe it is up to my friends are capable of finding their own links.

You can talk about it, contact your newspapers, start up pages, cover your FB pages in this information as I have done so with mine........

OK. I have written to the Salford Advertiser. No point in putting anything on my Facebook page. It is open for friends only (See above)

Then, you will find that people come to you and say thank you for telling them so much of what they had no idea had even happened, or is still happening to this day.


You will find that many of them are Americans.....

I don't particularly feel the need for approval from anyone.


You can go over to the Wall of the White House FB page, the FBI too, and inform masses of people, as millions post on those pages, particularly The White House ones....

Presumably you mean inform them of the plight of the American Indian. Would that not be better goming from someone who knows their plight first hand rather than a ageing folky who knows nothing?

You can get in contact with many of the Leonard Peltier 'chapters' who are all over Facebook...

You can even contact the producer of some of the CDs about Leonard Peltier...

You can phone up the prison where Leonard currently is, USP Coleman, in Florida.

You can write to him there....

I don't know enough about the Leonard Peltier case to decide whether he was innocent or guilty. Sorry. Besides - I thought this was about stolen children, not a disputed criminal?

You can bore the pants off people to such an extent that some American Indians will come to you and thank you for what you are doing for their children.

You can take the leads, the links which THEY pass to you, and pass them on to others........

How does boring the pants off people help. I would find it counter productive but if you feel that you must them please feel free.

You can recognise in your heart just how DEEPLY so many of these wonderful people are hurting...and how it heals, just a fraction, every time they realise that others care....

I do care. If that helps pass it on.


What you must NOT do, of course, is sit on internet boards taking no notice of any links, any requests to help, that may be put before you, preferring to use your usual up your own arse comments to try to belittle the very people who are trying to spread the word, for that is most definitely a very wrong thing to do...

Not belittling anyone. No 'up arse' comments. Again, I don't see how that helps. Maybe you could enlighten me?

Hope this helps. Any more suggestions for consideration?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:47 AM

Thanks, Ad... x

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:05 PM

"If any of you had even bothered to watch that video..."

I said I DID... I said I only watched enough of it to get confused. My questions STILL stand unanswered and I expect they will continue to be unanswered simply because I do NOT believe that Native Peoples mothers are selling their children at present. Can you document this practice? If so, why don't you notify the RCMP that children are being sold? I still believe that such practice is illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:03 PM

Gnu - For heavens sake stop spoiling a good headlime with facts.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/26/141700018/tribes-question-foster-groups-power-and-influence


Where did I say anyone was 'selling' children? The States are paid (double) to take American Indian children into Care. The Care Homes make a bomb from this, financially....because they are paid to take the children in.

There are many Native homes who would be only too willing to foster these children, FREE OF CHARGE, until they were able to return to their parents, as they want to keep the children in touch with their culture, their roots, their beliefs etc...

There are many other articles leading off from the article I've linked too. All is explained in them. This is an on-going situation, NOT history.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:27 PM

Um... Lizzie, sorry if this offends you... BUT then why does your subject title talk about the 60s, if "This is an on-going situation, NOT history", like you state? Unless I'm interpreting it wrongly... and this is really about people who were in boarding/residential schools talking a more modern situation.. as in the "telling our stories" and comparing them to the modern one? Or people in the modern situation "telling our stories?"

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:09 PM

A song for those affected by the 60s scoop.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 07:56 PM

I know this thread is not about Leonard Peltier but it seemed appropriate to post this poem written by him here.

The Message

Silence, they say, is the voice of complicity.
But silence is impossible.
Silence screams.
Silence is a message,
just as doing nothing is an act.

Let who you are ring out and resonate
in every word and every deed.
Yes, become who you are.
There's no sidestepping your own being
or your own responsibility.

What you do is who you are.
You are your own comeuppance.
You become your own message.

You are the message.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: BTNG
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM

I still believe that such practice is illegal

Of course it's bloody illegal. Since when did that ever stop any government from things of a questionable nature?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 08:06 PM

"Where did I say anyone was 'selling' children?"

Ahhhh... did YOU watch the video?

Okay. That's enough for me. I am gone. Have fun. gnightgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:51 AM

"Um... Lizzie, sorry if this offends you... BUT then why does your subject title talk about the 60s, if "This is an on-going situation, NOT history", like you state? Unless I'm interpreting it wrongly... and this is really about people who were in boarding/residential schools talking a more modern situation.. as in the "telling our stories" and comparing them to the modern one? Or people in the modern situation "telling our stories?"..."


Don't be sorry. Yes it offends me.

If offends me because rather than talk about the outpouring of grief to be seen on the film, rather than talk about the fact there are now more Indian children in care than ever before, even more than during the peak of the Residential Schools horror, you choose to talk about my choice of title.

I find that utterly bizarre, but sadly, not surprising.

If you want, please ask Max or Joe to a title you deem appropriate.

Thanks.




>>>>From gnu:"Where did I say anyone was 'selling' children?"

Ahhhh... did YOU watch the video?

Okay. That's enough for me. I am gone. Have fun. gnightgnu. <<<<<

OK, let me get this straight. The second speaker mentions, around 7.00 minutes in, about a new Law/Bill being looked at, regarding adoption. In this he includes International Adoption of Native children. He says, just once, that this would allow mothers to get $20,000-$40,000 for their children. Is he speaking of what could happen in the future? I've no idea. I do not know what is being proposed in this Bill.

At no other time, throughout 1 hour and 12 minutes approx. is this mentioned by anyone else.

I would hope you looked at the entire film, not just the first 7 minutes?

From 18.00 minutes in you will hear the 3rd (and main) speaker talking most eloquently about what happened in the past and what is happening now, to this day. You will hear him say that in the 2000s "......There are more aboriginal children in the care of Provincial Ministry today than there ever was at the peak of the Residential Schools era.."

At 39.00 minutes in, you will hear a woman saying that a family was offered $5,000 for the Treaty Rights of their child, who had been taken into Care, for adoption with a white family, as I recall...although the sound is a little unclear at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:07 AM

Oops, forgot to 'close' the bolding after the end of the " ..sorry about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:09 PM

So, it does mention selling children then?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:46 PM

I don't want the title changed. The title can stay as it is. I just brought it up, because it might be misleading. Not because I particularly don't like it. You have a right to be offended if you want. Back to the thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 05:31 PM

There are a lot of issues here.

The people that this happened to need to have their stories listened to. They need to come to terms with what happened to them. It is wrong to just write off a whole generation of people that this happened to and put it down to history.

The survivors of this have a right to find their families and should be given every help to do so.

Clearly things like this are still happening today in some cases and they need to be stopped.

People who suffered in this way deserve justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada - The 60s Scoop-Stolen Children
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 07:27 AM

How ?