Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOUSE CARPENTER (trad Maine)
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:35 PM

Here is the version sung by Susie Carr Young, of Brewer, Maine, and collected by George Herzog in 1928. This ballad was "traditional in her family." (Bronson, 452)

THE HOUSE CARPENTER

She took her baby on her knee
And she gave it kisses three,
Saying, "Stay a t home, you sweet pretty babe,
Keep your father company."

They had not been out more than two weeks,
I'm sure it was not three,
Before this lady began to weep,
And she wept most bitterly.

"O, do you weep for the gold that you left,
Or the dangers of the sea?
Or is it for fear of that house-carpenter
That you left when you came with me?"

"I do not weep for the gold that I left,
Or the dangers of the sea;
But it's all for the love of that little baby
That I left when I came with thee."

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOUSE CARPENTER (trad New Jersey)
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:50 PM

Here is the version sung by Jennie Devlin and I believe recorded by Alan Lomax. You can find out more about it here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=fVilv3ZcQEAC&pg=PA125&dq=The+House+Carpenter+ballad&hl=en&ei=EEfdTsL9MKrc0QHokZHDBg&sa=X&oi=boo

Roud says that this was collected in Gloucester, Massachusetts, but Newman in her book, NEVER WITHOUT A SONG, pp. 124-126, talks about it coming from New Jersey. There was not enough of the book on line for me to figure this out. Lomax's "Intro" was particularly unhelpful.

The House Carpenter

"Well met, well met, O my own true love,
Well meet, well met, O," cries she.
"I've come across the deep blue sea,
And it's all for o'er the love of thee."

"If I am to give up my house carpenter,
And also my little baby,
What have you got to support me upon,
On the banks of the old Tennessee?"

"I have six ships a-sailing the sea,
And one hundred and ten
Of your own countrymen
For to be at your command."

[So she goes with him]

She picks up her dear little baby,
And kisses it one, two, and three,
Saying "Stay at home with your daddy,
While I go sailing on the sea."

Subject: Lyr Add: THE YOUNG SHIP'S CARPENTER (trad NF)
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:01 PM

Here is a version collected by Kenneth Peacock from Mrs. Mary Ann Galpin of Codroy, Newfoundland, in 1961. It comes from this website, which is not identified on this particular page:

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/16/carpenter.htm

The Young Ship's Carpenter (Collected by Kenneth Peacock)

In England there lived a young ship's carpenter,
They tell me that he had a handsome wife,
When a sea captain he went from Newfoundland,
And soon he blighted both their tender lives.

He said, "Come and leave your husband now, my dear,
And see some pleasure all of your life,
And we will both go back to Newfoundland,
And there we will pass for man and wife."

"If I should leave my husband dear," said she,
"Likewise my little family that's so small,
What have you got to maintain me,
To support my weary ones in with all?"

He said, "I have seven ships now all of my own,
It was one of them that brought me here on shore,
And one of them will be at your command
For to carry you about from shore to shore."

They had not been sailing long upon the sea,
Scarcely two days, or p'rhaps it was 'bout three,
Before that young ship's carpenter's handsome wife
She began to weep most bitterly.

"Do you weep for gold, my dear?" said he,
"Or do you weep for silver that is free,
Or do you weep for any other man
That you do like much better than me?"

"I do not weep for gold," then said she,
"And neither do I weep for silver that is free,
But I do weep for my own little family
That I ought to have brought on board along with me."

'Twas just a short time after that, I know,
This lady she was distracted and forlorn.
Then she soon ended her life into the sea
By jumping overboard at the height of the storm.

When that sad news to England it returned
The young ship's carpenter swore and tore his hair,
Saying, "My curse might lay on you, all mariners,
For you do live a sad and a wicked life;
My curse may lay on that sea captain, too,
For 'twas he that stole away from me my handsome wife."

Here are the comments that accompany this ballad:

"Collected in 1961 from Mrs. Mary Ann Galpin of Codroy, NL, by Kenneth Peacock and published in Songs Of The Newfoundland Outports, Volume 3, pp.740-741, by the National Museum of Canada (1965) Crown Copyrights Reserved.

Kenneth Peacock noted that this ballad, usually known as The House Carpenter, especially in its North American variants, has lost most of its 'daemonic' character. If one reads the daemonism back into this Newfoundland variant, one finds that the woman was originally betrothed to the sea captain. However, when she jilts him for the young ship's carpenter he vows to have revenge and enlists the help of the devil. Appearing in the likeness of the captain, the devil woos her away from domestic bliss to her ultimate destruction. All these latter-day variants of the story are quite possibly descended from an archtypal legend of the remote past when sea daemons lured unsuspecting maidens into their submarine parlours."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:04 PM

The previous note comes from this website:

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:52 PM

Brian, is this the Heylin piece on Dylan's "Daemon Lover" that you were referring to? It is quite amazing and will take some study.

http://www.clinton-heylin.com/PDFs/DaemonBitz.pdf

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOUSE CARPENTER (trad Ontario)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 07:49 PM

From The Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs
Edit Fowke & Keith MacMillan, 1973

81. The House Carpenter
from LaRena Clark (Toronto, Ontario 1961, recorded on 'LaRena Clark: A Canadian Garland', Topic 12T140)

'Well met, well met, my own true love,
And very well met,' said he.
'I have just returned from the salt, salt sea,
And it's all for the sake of thee.

'I could have married a queen's daughter,
And she would have married me,
But I refused a crown of gold,
And it's all for the sake of thee.'

'If you could have married a queen's daughter,
Then she should have married thee,
For me, young man, you have came too late,
For I've married a house carpenter.'

'If you will leave your house carpenter
And go along with me,
I will take you down where the grass grows green
On the banks of the River Dee.'

If I were to leave my house carpenter
And go along with thee,
What have you got to maintain a wife
Or to keep her from slavery?'

'I have seven ships at sea
And seven more in port,
And a hundred and twenty-four jolly, jolly boys,
And they all will wait on thee.'

She called then to her two pretty babes
And she kissed them most tenderly,
Saying, 'Stay at home, my two pretty babes,
And bear your own father company.'

She had not sailed on sea two weeks,
I'm sure not sailed on three,
Till here she sat in her new husband's cabin,
Weeping most bitterly.

'Oh, do you weep for gold?' he said,
'Or do you weep for fear?
Or do you weep for your house carpenter
That you left when you came here?'

'I do not weep for gold,' she said,
'Nor do I weep for fear,
But I do weep for my two pretty babes
That I left when I came here.'

She had not sailed on sea three weeks,
I'm sure not sailed on four,
Till overboard her fair body she threw,
And her weeping was heard no more.

Her curse did attend a sea sailor's life,
Her curse did attend a sailor's life,
For the robbing of a house carpenter,
And stealing away his wife.

---

There's a lovely and rustic ;-) photo of LaRena Clarke here on the cover of 'A family heritage: the story and songs of LaRena Clark'
By Edith Fowke, Jay Rahn, LaRena LeBarr Clark, at Google Books

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 09:06 PM

Thanks Becky for the version from LaRena Clarke.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 09:38 AM

Brian posted the text of this earlier, but here is a link to De Marsan's broadside as it was printed in an article by Phillips Barry entitled "Traditional Ballads in New England II," published in the JOURNAL OF AMERICAN FOLKLORE, Vol. 18, No. 70, July-Sept., 1905 (scroll to bottom of the page):

http://www.jstor.org/stable/533139?seq=17

Barry says this was printed "about 1860, by H. DeMarsan, 60 Chatham Street, New York, N.Y." It does seem to be something of a baseline for most if not all of the NE versions. How would this broadside have been distributed throughout the North Eastern region? And can we find any earlier references in print to this ballad in the North East or anywhere in the U.S.? I do not want to gather up examples from other regions, but I would be interested if there are any earlier print examples.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Bettynh
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

Most New Englanders were (and are, I hope) literate, certainly by 1860. This entry from Old Sturbridge Village (a historical repro village representing 1830) discusses distribution. By 1860, railroads would certainly be involved as well.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:41 AM

While this excerpt is a bit chopped up, there are some interesting observations here in Norm Cohen's FOLK MUSIC: A REGIONAL EXPLORATION. Here is what was available of his discussion on the Northeast.

http://books.google.com/books?id=DqN_-kyCJFcC&pg=PA84&dq=New+England+singers+-+Norm+Cohen&hl=en&ei=-4roTvuuK-T50gHu8cDsCQ&sa=X&o

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOUSE CARPENTER (trad Virginia)
From: John Minear
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:44 PM

For comparative purposes, here is a very fine version of "The House Carpenter" sung by Robert Shifflett, of Browns Cove, VA, which is in the Blue Ridge, east of Charlottesville.

http://www.klein-shiflett.com/shifletfamily/HHI/GeorgeFoss/SONGS/song5.html

"Well met, well met my old true love
Well met, well met," cried he,
"I have just returned from the great salt sea
To take thee away with me."

"I once could have married a king's daughter fair
She wanted to marry me
But a crown of gold have I refused
Because of my love for thee.

If you could have married a king's daughter, sir,
I'm sure you are to blame,
For I am married to a house carpenter
And he is a nice young man."

"Will you forsake your house carpenter
To sail away with me?
I will take you where the grass grows green
On the banks of the low country."

"How can I leave my house carpenter
Oh, how can I leave I say?
How could I leave my three little babes
To sail so far away?"

"I have seven ships upon the sea
All sailing for this land
And a hundred and ten brave, jolly, bold men
Shall be at your command."

She picked up her three little babes
She gave them kisses three
Saying,"Stay here with your papa, my dear,
To keep him company.

She arrayed herself in rich attire
Most glorious to behold
And every hamlet they rode through
She shown and glittered like gold.

They had been on the sea about two weeks
I'm sure it was not three
When this fair maiden began to weep
She wept most bitterly.

"Is it for the gold you weep
Or is it for the store?
Or can it be for your house carpenter
You never will see anymore?"

"It is not for the gold that I weep
And neither for the store
But I am grieving for my three little babes
I never shall see anymore."

They had been on the sea about three weeks
I'm sure it was not four
When there sprang a leak in the bottom of the ship,
And it sank to rise no more.

"What is it that looms so black,
As black as the feathers of a crow?"
"That is the smoke from the fires of Hell
Where you and I must go."

"What is it that shines so bright
As white as driven snow?"
"That is the gate of Heaven itself
Where we can never go."

This version is very similar to those that we have found in New England, with the exception of the last two verses. It is also very similar to the DeMarsan broadside. I wonder if the DeMarsan broadside was picked up at some point and published in a songbook. I'm finding it a little hard to grasp how a single broadside published in New York/Philadelphia could have spread so far and wide.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:11 PM

Cape Breton's Magazine
> Issue 23 > Page 1 - MacDougalls and Whittys and Songs
Page 1 - MacDougalls and Whittys and Songs
Published by Ronald Caplan on 1979/7/31


Music as sung by Mary Ann MacDougall Cape Breton

It's of a young man this song I write
Unto the seas he takes great delight
While the female sex had him beguiled
Till at length he had two of them with child

He promised them he'd be true to both
He bound himself with a solemn oath
For to marry them both if he had life
And one of them he made his wife

The other poor girl she was left alone
She said, "You false and alluding men
It's funny. You have done a wicked thing
Which a public shame unto me will bring."

It's to some silent woods she went
This public shame all to prevent
And for to finish off the strife
She cut the tender thread of life

She hung herself out off a tree
Two men were hunting they did her see
Her flesh by birds were beastly torn
Which grieved those young men's heart forsom

Straightway they ran and they cut her down
And in her bosom a note was found
This note was written out in large
Saying, "Bury me not or I'll do you charge

"But here on the ground you will let me lie
For all false young men as they pass by
And this by me a warning take
And see their follies when it's too late."

It was on the land she plagued him so
Till at length to the sea he was forced to go

And as he was standing in the topmast high
A little boat he chanced to spy
A little boat without any trim
Which made him tremble on every limb

It's down below then this young man goes
Unto the captain his mind unclose
Saying, "There is a spirit a-coming hence
So captain you'll stand up in my defence."

It's up on deck then the captain goes
It's there he spied this a-fettered ghost
Saying, "Captain, captain, you must untend
You must fide(?) and help me with this young man.'

"It's in St. Helen's this young man died
And in St. Helen's his body lies."
"Oh captain do not tell me so
For he do dwell in your ship below

"And if you will stand up in his defence
A mighty storm I will send hence
Which it will make you and your sailors weep
And leave your bodies rolling in the deep.

" It's down below then the captain goes
He brings this young man unto his foes
She fixed her eyes on him so grim
That it made him tremble on every limb

Saying, "It's easily knowing when I was a maid
It was first by you I was betrayed
I am a spirit that came for thou
You bought me once but I got you now."

It's to preserve then both ship and men
It was in that boat where she forced him then
The boat sank down in a flame of fire
Which caused the sailors all to admire

So come all good people who love belong
And since you heard of my mournful song
Be true to one or don't be tied
Or don't allure with poor female kind.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM

As I re-read this I realize it is in fact a fascinating amalgam... trying to remember the other ballad where the ghost reveals the culprit on the ship... too distracted right now

Also thinking about the relationship to this and Miss Bailey's Ghost

best- J

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:07 AM

"This version is very similar to those that we have found in New England, with the exception of the last two verses."

Yes, John - but those two last verses (Hell / Heaven) appear in Child F (Scott and Motherwell).

Also, that version and many of those from new England contain the verse:

"If you could have married a king's daughter
I'm sure you are to blame"

... which is absent from De Marsan but present in Socts oral and English broadside versions.

The verse beginning:

"She arrayed herself in rich attire
Most glorious to behold"

... is very common in versions from throughout the US, but again is absent from De Marsan; the Scots versions do not contain precisely the same verse, although some do mention posh attire (especially slippers of gold and velvet).

Lastly, several of your New England versions use the formula "keep me from slavery" as opposed to "keep me from misery" in de Marsan, and "what have you to keep me withal, if along with you I should go" in some Child texts (the Peacock Newfoundland version echoes the older versions).

So it looks like something other than De Marsan, whether another broadside or some consistent patterns in oral tradition, has contributed to the predominant form of the ballad in North America.

The Newfoundland version is interesting. Verses 1, 2 and 8 are aberrent, with the touch of a poetic hand about them. Someone has doctored that at some point.

It's also fascinating that the version you've given us from Mrs. Alice Robie of Pittsburg, New Hampshire, starts out with the first verse of the broadside ballad 'Turtle Dove' (aka 'Ten Thousand Miles'). There's one other example in Bronson of the same confusion of two separate songs: version 18, that opens with three verses of 'Turtle Dove', and comes from Wisconsin. Make of that what you will!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 09:35 AM

Thanks, Brian, for supporting my suspicion that there are some sources other than the DeMarsan broadside feeding into the North American development of this ballad. I suspect that this ballad was alive and well and came over with at least some of the Scotch-Irish immigrants themselves.

I don't know much about the whole business of the Broadsides and would welcome some education on that. Do we know how many copies they would print up and would they do reruns? How many copies of the DeMarsan printing could we reasonably expect to have existed? They would have been disseminated from New York City. I assume that was a major entry point for the Scotch-Irish. Treading very lightly, I wonder how literate these folks were when they arrived. And what about the tune, which seems fairly stable?   Also, what about that earlier (?) version printed in Philadelphia? Do we have textual evidence of that somewhere? Philadelphia would certainly have been a major port of entry for the Scotch-Irish.

According to the Wikipedia article, by 1775, there were already over 200,000 Scotch-Irish immigrants in this country scattered from Maine to Georgia. They had been arriving since 1710. This is well before the printing of the DeMarsan broadside. How likely is it that this printed song sheet found its way into the Southern Highlands? Or the hills of Kentucky and West Virginia? Or the lumber camps of Vermont and Maine? Another 100,000 Scotch-Irish immigrants arrived by 1812. Again, some forty years or so before DeMarsan's printing. Is it not likely that his version of this ballad was actually taken from these immigrants at some point, after they had become relatively well established in North America? This second "wave" was apparently somewhat older in age, and perhaps more skilled and tended to settle in the industrial centers of the North, like New York and Philadelphia. But were they the ballad singers? Weren't the "ballad singers" already several generations established in the Appalachians by then.

Another half a million arrived between 1815 and 1845. They just kept coming! And they spread out across the developing new country. And somehow they took this ballad with them. I suspect that whether or not they first received this ballad in printed form, many of them did in fact write it down for themselves and preserved it in that way as well as in their memories. The tradition of the "ballad boxes" surely plays a major role is stabilizing these texts.

This is all fascinating to me. I just wish we had more printed references to work with on this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 01:47 PM

Hi, Julia L, that song is generally classified as a different song from the Demon Lover / House Carpenter, and has its own variants stemming from "The Gosport Tragedy, or, Perjured Ship Carpenter" a London broadside of about 1750. Sometimes known as the Ship's Carpenter, Polly's Love, or Pretty Polly (the last in the U.S., with the story only through the murder).

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:40 AM

Lena Bourne Fish, who lived in East Jaffrey, New Hampshire, back in 1940, when she was recorded by both Frank and Anne Warner, and by Helen Hartness Flandes, singing her version of "The Ship Carpenter" (Child #243), was born in April 1873. From my point in history, this would put her in my grandfather's generation (he was born in 1876). Above, I quoted Flanders as saying that Mrs. Fish learned this ballad from her father, Stratton Bourne, who was born in northern Vermont. This places this particular version of "The House Carpenter" back into the previous generation, or what would be my own great-grandfather's time. My great-grandfather, Franklin Pond, was born on November 30, 1819. Assuming that he and Stratton Bourne were contemporaries, this pushes the potential time for this version back to the early days of the 19th century. And if Stratton Bourne learned the ballad from his family, it would go back into the 1700's, but there is no documentation for that.

As far as I know, none of my ancestors were ballad singers. My mother's family, the Ponds, came over with Governor Winthrop in 1630, and settled in the Boston area, and were probably among those Puritans from East Anglia (to be specific in this case, from Groton, in Suffolk, England), that Brian mentioned earlier. My father's family were German and came over in 1732 to Philadelphia from the Palatinate, to become part of the "Pennsylvania Dutch", and eventually settled in Tucker County, West Virginia. I'm sure that both the Ponds and the Minears intermarried along the way with some good Scotch-Irish folks, but there are no records of ballad singing on either side.

I find that when I am trying to picture history it helps to personalize it and locate it. Both of the great-grandfathers involved here "went west" as young men. George Minear left West Virginia and moved out to the "frontier" of southeastern Iowa on the banks of the Des Moines River to farm in the late 1850's. Franklin Pond went to California in 1849 as a part of the "Gold Rush". [You can read about some of Captain Pond's later adventures in this thread: thread.cfm?threadid=126347 ]

They would have already departed for the west when the DeMarsan broadside was published in 1860. There was probably ballad singing going on in West Virginia in those days. Perhaps even in Tucker County, and it is conceivable that the Minears might have been exposed to it. If he was a singer, George Minear could have taken the ballad out to Iowa. Franklin Pond was born in Granby, Connecticut. He might have heard some ballad singing, and if he had been a singer, he could have taken the ballad out to California and beyond. But in both cases, their versions would have pre-dated the DeMarsan version.

I am just trying to imagine the times and some of what was going on from the perspective of my own personal family histories. Instead of Iowa or California, we do know that the ballad traveled to northern Vermont and down into central Virginia (Robert Shifflett's version was older than he was and probably came from the generation of Stratton Bourne and Franklin Pond and George Minear. Robert Shifflett was of my father's generation, having been born in 1909). But, at this point we don't know when "The House Carpenter" arrived either in northern Vermont or in central Virginia, using just these two examples.

I think that Brian's detailed observations above about some of the differences in details gives us about as much basis as we are likely to find at this point for suggesting that there were other and certainly possibly earlier traditions of "The House Carpenter" existing in North America from which our current "collections" have descended. And I suspect that any new information is going to come from individuals digging around in their own personal family histories. However, I have a feeling that we are approaching the point when "stuff" that may have survived the last two or three hundred years is either not going to be found or has already gone by the wayside. That is a pessimistic reading on things, and my own opinion, but I don't feel hopeful about new discoveries. But who knows what remains stashed away in academic archives and museums that no one has ever really looked at. And don't forget the local garage and estate sales!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 03:15 PM

Here is a very interesting website about music from the Adirondacks:

http://woods.tauny.org/pages/70/6/some-background

If you scroll down, you will see a photograph of a handwritten copy of "The House Carpenter".

You can also view it here:

http://woods.tauny.org/images_start.php?gal=gallery/sub5/&img=48

And here is a (sideways) picture of some more of the ballad:

http://woods.tauny.org/images_start.php?gal=gallery/sub5/&img=49

I'm not sure, but I think that the date on this is April 28, 1869! It is from Sarah A. Willard, in Moriah Center. NY. Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, there is no discussion on this website of this manuscript! It is not even labeled. From what I can read of the manuscript, this version looks like many of the others that we have found from New England. If anybody knows anything more about this manuscript, please share with us.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 04:33 PM

I think it might be 1849 John, comparing it with the numbers on the verses.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:06 PM

Mick, you just might be right about that! I can't really see the only other "6" on the document, but when you compare it with verse "4" it looks pretty close. I have emailed TAUNY asking for more information on this manuscript. We'll see what they say. Thanks for your sharp eyes, Mick. If it is "1849" then this must be the oldest written documentation in North America for "The House Carpenter" and certainly pre-dates the DeMarsan broadside. It is very strange to me that there is no discussion that I have been able to find anywhere about this. And if you Google "The House Carpenter" pictures, it's right there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 09:41 PM

Mick Pearce has transcribed the "Willard Version" from TAUNY website for us. He gives us a literal transcription and then a modern reading of that. Thanks very much for this good work, Mick.
---
The House Carpender

1
Well mett well mett my own
True love well mett well mett,said he
I have just returned from the salt
Salt Sea all for hte love of the

2 If you will forsake your hous
Carpender and go along with me
I will take you whair the grass
grows green on the Banks of the Sweete
Willie

3 If i'll forsake my house carpender
And go along with the have you
Eny thing to mantane me up
on to kepe me from slavery
-- ---- -- -- -

4 One hundred ships I have at
Sea a making for dryd land
With two hundred and tenn bold
Jolly seamen all shall be at your comand

5
She called her babe up on her
Knee and she kist it two and three
Sayd stay at home my sweete little
Babe and keepe your dad company

6
She dresst her self in rich way
In riches to be hold and every street
that She past through she shode
her glitter goald

7
She had not been at Sea two
Weakes I am sure it was not three
before this maid she began
for to weap and She wept most
Bitterly

8 Is it for my goald that you
Weape or is it for my store or is
It for the house carpender that
you never can see any more

9
Tis not for your goald that
I weap it is not for your store
But its all for the love of my
Sweete little babe that I never can
See eny more
--- --- --- ---
10
She had not ben on the sea three
Weakes I am sure it was not four
Before that ship She sprung a leak
And she sank to rise no more
--- --- --- --- --- --
11
Bad luck Bad luck to Sea
fare mades and kurse be all
your lives for robing of the
House Carpender and Stealing
Away his wife --- --- ---


April 28 1849

Sarah A.Willard
Moriah Center Ny


================================================
Rendering into modern orthography

The House Carpenter

1
Well met, well met my own true love
Well met, well met, said he
I have just returned from the salt, salt sea
All for the love of thee

2 If you will forsake your house carpenter
And go along with me
I will take you where the grass grows green
On the Banks of the Sweet Willie?

3 If I'll forsake my house carpenter
And go along with thee
Have you anything to maintain me upon
And to keep me from slavery

4 One hundred ships I have at sea
A-making for dry land
With two hundred and ten bold jolly seamen
All shall be at your comand

5
She called her babe up on her
Knee and she kissed it two and three
Said stay at home my sweet little babe
And keep your dad company

6
She dressed herself in rich way
In riches to behold
And every street that she passed through
She showed her glittering gold

7
She had not been at sea two weeks
I am sure it was not three
Before this maid she began for to weep
And she wept most bitterly

8 Is it for my gold that you weep
Or is it for my store
Or is it for the house carpenter
That you never can see any more

9
Tis not for your gold that I weep
It is not for your store
But its all for the love of my sweet little babe
That I never can see any more

10
She had not been on the sea three weeks
I am sure it was not four
Before that ship she sprung a leak
And she sank to rise no more

11
Bad luck Bad luck to sea fare maid
And cursed be all your lives
For robbing of the House Carpenter
And stealing away his wife

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 12:25 PM

So who was Sarah A. Willard, who wrote down the lyrics to "The House Carpenter" at Moriah Center, NY, in April of 1849? I have been searching online trying to locate her, but I have not had any success in linking a person by this name to this place. Did she live there or was she visiting? Was she a young woman, perhaps not yet married, or was she an older woman? A very rough time frame for her birth might be somewhere between 1775 and 1835. Moriah Center is near Lake Champlain and was barely even settled by 1849. It is in a region that was known for timbering and then for the mining of iron ore.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Bettynh
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 02:50 PM

According to this , Moriah is much older. Takes you right back to that edge of English settlement mentioned earlier in this thread. Really, there wasn't a huge difference between settlements in upstate NY and those in Kentucky in 1780. Tiny family farms in river valleys were the norm.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 08:06 PM

I just noticed that in v1 line4 of the original text transcription (09:41) I've put in hte instead of the the of the ms. I thought I'd mention it so that noone thinks that it was like that originally.

Perhaps a mudelf could change it for me.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 09:13 AM

Thanks, Betty, for this additional information on Moriah. I've looked at a number of different websites on this and it has been a bit confusing to me trying to pin down exactly what and where "Moriah" is and was since it seems to have evolved historically. In any case, here are the two pages that I looked at:

http://history.rays-place.com/ny/n-hudson.htm

http://www.inandaroundtheadirondackpark.com/History_of_Moriah.htm

A fascinating footnote, for me, is the mention of "Benjamin Pond" as one of the original settlers in this area. Here is a bit more information on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Pond

He is descended from Samuel Pond, who was the eldest son of Robert Pond of Dorchester MA, mentioned earlier in this thread here:

thread.cfm?threadid=141964&messages=74#3274281

While I was thinking about "Sarah Willard" over the weekend, I was reminded of a book by Jeffrey Lent, published back in 2002, called LOST NATION. It is a work of fiction, set in what I think is the northern part of New Hampshire, possibly in the early 1830's. It is a very good book but brutal. I suspect that he is fairly accurate in his portrayal of the "frontier" in those times and places. The area he describes is about 150 miles or so northeast of Moriah Center. Accurate or not, it gives me a sense of what life might have been like between the time of Benjamin Pond in 1800 and the time of Sarah Willard in 1849 "in those days."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Bettynh
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 03:40 PM

Have you read Thoreau's Maine Woods? He describes travelling from his home, in civilized Concord, Mass. to several Maine destinations in 1846, 1853, and 1857, passing many farmsteads, logging camps, and Indian settlements while heading for "pure nature." He's fairly meticulous in describing the reading material available in the woods, but the only mention of singing is an Indian who knew some hymns.

My family also arrived in New England (first Boston, then Conn.) in the early 1700s. My branch of that family was Loyalist - they migrated from New England to St. John, NB about 1800, and settled along the St. John River. My grandfather, two brothers, and a sister came to southern NH for work in 1900. I remember one of my grandfather's brothers bursting into verse with little prompting, and he spoke of the Queen (the REAL queen, not Elizabeth) with tears in his eyes. He was born in 1888. Sadly, I never heard singing from any of them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 04:02 PM

I had an email response from Varick Chittenden of TAUNY to my enquiry about the Willard manuscript. Here it is:

"Thanks for your inquiry. FYI, the handwritten copy we have in our archival materials is from a file compiled by Miss Edith Cutting beginning nearly 70 years ago. Now in her late 80s, Miss Cutting, who collected largely from family and neighbors in her native northeastern Adirondacks and the Champlain Valley, was a student of the legendary Dr. Harold Thompson and did meritorious fieldwork in those days. She donated some of her large collection to TAUNY, from which this one piece comes.

The limited info on the House Carpenter is: from Cutting's "Songs from Aunt Lois" file, and it is signed Sarah A Willard, Moriah Center NY, April 28, 1869."

They say the date is "1869". That should be authoritative, but it sure looks like "49". I've come across Miss Cutting's name before and we can look further there. I wonder who "Aunt Lois" was. And let me take this opportunity to credit "The Edith Cutting Collection in the TAUNY Archives" for our use of this material. And a big thanks to Varick Chittenden for getting back to me!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 06:18 PM

I think we have to take their date. I had another look at the ms and in particular the number 6 against the verse. I had originally assumed it was a normal single loop with no tail, but looking again, there is a diagonal line below left of the 6, but not looking connected to it and which I'd originally taken to be just a mark on the paper. But it does seem as if it might have been the continuation of the loop of the 6, which would make it more like the one in the date.

I also had a look for Sarah A Willard at Moriah Center in some of the censuses (via a free search at ancersty.com - it was linked from a Moriah Center site): Sarah A. Willard. There are a few of them listed for Essex, though none actually listed as at Moriah Center. If you hold the mouse over the census line it gives you some information about them. I'd could have got more information by taking a free trial, but declined to.

There are several sites relating to Moriah Center and I think there's a local history and a genealogy group listed for Moriah; they might be able to help identify her. (I think someone with genealogical experience might be needed for this). There was also a cemetary project for Essex, but it looks as if the two nearest cemetaries to Moriah Center haven't been done yet; I dint's see any Willard in the entries for the other Moriah cemeraries. Of course she may neither have been born (one of the census entries for a Sarah A Willard had estimated dob as 1794 and birthplace England!) there, nor died there.

Mick

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 09:09 AM

Thanks, Mick, for your continuing sharp eyes on this and the detailed search work. So, until further notice, we are back to "1869" as a dating for the Willard manuscript from the Cutting Collection at TUANY. That is still early and a significant documentation. I'm not aware of any other examples like it.

I spent quite a bit of time over the weekend doing genealogical searches for Sarah A. Willard up in the Moriah Center area, but could not find anything that looked likely. That is tedious work. Thanks for your efforts, Mick.

Here is a "preview" from Google Books of Dr. Cutting's LORE OF AN ADIRONDACK COUNTY.

http://books.google.com/books?id=MElT30avx4wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Edith+Cutting&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BpTwTqHqF4rf0QHUz5y3Ag&ved=0CDs

This is only a partial and fairly limited sampling of her book, but as near as I could tell she does not mention "Aunt Lois" or "Sarah Willard". I believe we posted this reference earlier here:

thread.cfm?threadid=141964&messages=77#3272591

Dr. Cutting does present two different versions of "The House Carpenter" in this book, but there is no reference to the "Willard" version.

Here is a collection from the middle of the 19th century that she helped edit with her teacher, Dr. Harold W. Thompson. The collection is from the western part of the state of NY, and as near as I can tell does not contain "The House Carpenter."

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/?GCOI=80140100413170

I was unable to find any reference in anything else on line about Dr. Cutting that mentions "Sarah Willard."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 09:24 AM

Hi all,

As project director for the above-referenced TAUNY website on traditional music in the Adirondack Mountains (NY), I felt fortunate to be able to spend large amounts of time working with various archival materials, and TAUNY's Edith Cutting collection was among them.

Because I still have her files here with me in Buffalo, I'm looking at the Aunt Lois file as I type. The official title of this folder is "Songs from Aunt Lois's papers", and underneath that, written in pencil, is the following:

Lois Lobdell, her daughter is Mrs Joseph Kogma(? tough to make out the last name), RD 2 2192C, Westport NY 12993.

I checked the "6s" against the "4s" on the original ms. and the date is indeed 1869, not 1849.   

I was going to mention anecdotally the 1841-1856 Stevens Douglass ms. (New England family that moved to Western NY in the 1830's, kept chapbook of song texts from 1841-1856), and the fact that they had nine Child ballads but no House Carpenter, but I see you found that online as the recently republished "Pioneer Songster".

Let me know if I can be of any other help!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 08:40 PM

Welcome, Dave, and thanks for this additional information on the Edith Cutting collection, and specifically on "Aunt Lois." Also, thanks for double checking the dating of the "Willard" manuscript. 1869 it is. I have spent the evening searching for "Lois Lobdell" in or around the area of Moriah Center. I found Lobdells as some of the earliest settlers at nearby Elizabethtown:

http://www.archive.org/stream/pleasantvalleyhi00brown#page/43/mode/2up

But I was not able to trace them down to a Lois Lobdell. A number of them did end up in Westport, which is/was the home of the daughter of "Aunt Lois". I feel like I'm close but I can't close the gap. In looking at the descendants of Simon Lobdell, I even found an Abigal Lobdell who married a Willard, but they were over in Vermont, and I couldn't trace it on down to anything.   And now I've gone cross-eyed! Maybe somebody else will have better luck than me connecting some of these dots. Thanks again for your help, Dave.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:47 AM

John,

I don't know that Lois Lobdell would have been from Moriah Center. In fact, Elizabethtown sounds much more likely, as Edith Cutting had lots of family there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 10:28 AM

Thanks, Dave. I'm sure there is a connection here somewhere. I just couldn't pin it down last night. I wonder if there is any chance that "Aunt Lois" was an actual relative of Dr. Cutting? It's still not clear at this point whether "Lobdell" was her married or unmarried name.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 02:59 PM

John,

I take it that Aunt Lois was indeed a direct relative of Edith Cutting. Varick Chittenden at TAUNY is still in touch with Ms Cutting from time to time - you might check with him.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM

Here is some nice background on Dr. Cutting:

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/upnorth/masters/cutting/cutting.php

As you can see, she was born in Elizabethtown, in Essex County, NY, in 1918. I was able to find this about the first Cuttings to arrive in Elizabethtown:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_kkVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA334&dq=Dr.+Sewall+Sylvester+Cutting&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nXzzTs2OJ6Lh0QHD6LCcAg&ved=

However, I have not been able to find a genealogical link that connects Sewall Cutting to Edith Cutting. I am sure there must be one. Nor have a been able to find a genealogical link between the Cuttings and the Lobdells, although again, I am sure there must be one. There were certainly were both Lobdells and Cuttings in Elizabethtown in the early part of the 19th century. Still no mention of "Willard".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Dec 11 - 12:39 PM

Well, we have been burrowing down fairly deep in the details here for the past week on the "Willard" manuscript. I just wanted to remind everybody that I'm still looking for other versions of "The House Carpenter"/"The Daemon Lover" from northeastern part of North America - yes, we expanded our original locale from New England to this larger region. Does anyone know of any versions that we have missed? And what about the broadside printed in Philadelphia? Has anybody ever seen this thing? Is it the same as the DeMarsan version printed in NYC?

Does anyone know of any recordings of any of the versions of "The House Carpenter" that we have turned up so far? Has anyone ever recorded one of these New England or Canadian versions?

I know we are headed into the Christmas Weekend here, but if you need a break from all of the holiday cheer and goodwill, think a little on "The House Carpenter"!

Here are some YouTube versions (none from New England that I know of) that you might enjoy:

Bradley Kinkaid from Kentucky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74LuelnRQjA

Peggy Seeger (with what appears to be the ending of the ballad):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ajgLW-Yps

Joan Baez with the first version many of us heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VzGibeTuGs

Clarence Ashley, from Tennessee, with his classic version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op9j7X5BPGw

From the Watson family in North Carolina:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlS8f23LJd0

Natalie Merchant's version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3dbVACG6M

Buffy Sainte-Marie's version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4OL6SHipk&feature=related

Jean Ritchie's version from Kentucky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT2G-OuRxVE

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 06:57 AM

I think I found a recording of an Adirondack version of "The House Carpenter". It is on an album by Lee Knight called "Adirondack Ballads and Folk Song - From Lumberwoods, Iron Mines, and Communities (2005). Here is the CD:

http://www.bloatedtoe.com/store/product.php?productid=16426

It is the last track and is combined with "The Gypsy Davey." I have not heard this recording and so far have not found a copy of the lyrics. Has anybody heard this and does anybody have the lyrics?

It says that these are "Songs from the Collection of Historian Marjorie Lansing Porter." And we have another collection! Here is some more information on Marjorie Lansing Porter from our friends at the TAUNY website:

http://adirondackmusic.org/pages/50/16/marjorie-lansing-porter

I've done some initial searches for more information on this collection but I haven't found much yet. Here is what it says from the Library of Congress:

"AFS 22,104-22,136: Marjorie Lansing Porter Collection
Thirty-three 10-inch tapes of conversations, instrumentals, songs, and stories recorded in the Adirondack region of New York by Marjorie Lansing Porter, 1943-67. Obtained through loan from the State University of New York at Plattsburgh. The collection includes one and 1/2 linear inches of recording logs, correspondence, concordances, and notes. (66 hours; RWA 2671-2703)"

I've just discovered this LOC site and and realize that there are a bunch of collections out there, most of which I am not going to be able to access!

http://www.loc.gov/folklife/guides/NewYork.html

I'll have to spend some more time looking at this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 01:03 PM

Keep up the good work, John, and a merry Christams to you!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Dec 11 - 02:04 PM

Thanks, Brian, and the same to you, and all the rest of you as well. J.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 09:11 AM

Yesterday, my friend, Gibb, asked the obvious question. "What is your specific interest in finding a Massachusetts version?" So here is the story.

At Thanksgiving I was up in the Boston area and was doing some looking into my family background, on my mother's father's side. That would be the Ponds. I found that they got started over here with Robert Pond and his wife, Mary, who were from Groton, in Suffolk, England. They came over, along with about 700 other folks, with Governor John Winthrop to Boston in 1630. Robert and Mary Pond settled in Dorchester.

Robert was a house carpenter! Sometime in the early 1630's, he built a house there in Dorchester. That house lasted until 1873, when they tore it down to widen the road! Here is a story, with pictures about that old house:

http://www.dorchesteratheneum.org/page.php?id=667

This gave some real meaning to the idea of a "house carpenter" for me. Sadly, Robert died in 1637. But, his wife, Mary, remarried. And you may have guessed it. She married a sea captain! His name was Edward Shepard and he was from Cambridge. Now I realize that the story is a little out of sequence, but all of the characters are there. Mary even had a young son, named Daniel. All of this immediately reminded me of the ballad of "The House Carpenter." And I began to wonder if any versions of this ballad had ever been found in the Boston area or in Massachusetts.

So far, we have not been successful in finding such a version, although these families did multiply and spread out all over the Northeast. Robert's oldest son, Samuel, did not come over to Massachusetts with his father and mother, but apparently arrived some time later. Or, Samuel may have been a brother to Robert. Things are a little murky. But anyway a descendant of Samuel Pond shows up in the Adirondacks. He was a hero of the Battle of Plattsburg, and later settled in the early 1800's in the Elizabethtown area of Essex County. His name was Benjamin Pond.

It is entirely possible that "The House Carpenter" did find its way to Massachusetts, and traveled from there. Maybe Sarah Willard came from Boston! Keep looking.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 25 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM

John,

I've got the Lee Knight recording (and his contact info), and also have lots of info on the Marjorie Lansing Porter collection. Send me an email if you'd like any of that stuff - I don't check in here every day. Email is [e-mail]

Just doing a quick five-minute check through my files (we're in the middle of a busy Xmas), there are several versions of the House Carpenter that have been collected in NY & New England that I am aware of, including George Edwards from the Catskills (1940s), Celia Kelter from Ulster Co NY (1950), Martin Montonyae possibly from NJ (age 83 in 1939), and an informant named Henry (last name) from the Flanders Collection.

Sorry so short - I should have a bit of time tomorrow to respond by email if you'd like any more info on any of this, then I'll be away from my files for about a week.

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:02 AM

Hi Dave, I emailed you, but let me say here that when you get some time we'd love to have information on the Porter/Knight version. When, where and from whom did Porter collect this version? It's combined with "Gypsy Davey" on the recording. Are the two songs somehow merged? And also lyrics would be very nice for comparative purposes. Thanks.

We've got the George Edwards version listed up above here:

thread.cfm?threadid=141964&messages=91#3272586

I don't think we have Celia Kelter or Martin Montonyae. I'll take a look and see what I can find. Anything you can share with us here would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:05 AM

Dave, I just noticed that we have only a partial copy of George Edward's version because Google Books cut some pages in the middle of it. If you, or anyone else has the whole thing, we'd welcome it here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 11:40 AM

John, I just sent you an email with several attachments. Apologies if you received it multiple times - I was getting mixed signals from my email program about whether or not it was sending.

Hope it's useful.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 01:11 PM

Dave, thanks for all of that very useful information. I will begin putting it up today. To begin with, here is George Edward's complete version of what he called "The Ship's Carpenter."

The Ship's Carpenter

"It's pretty well met to my own true love,
It's pretty well met," says he,
"It's pretty well met to my own true love,
Long time I've waited for thee, O thee,
A long time I've waited for thee."

"I'm married to a house carpenter,
And a jolly house carpenter is he;
By him I have two [three] little babes,
And I can't belong with thee, O thee,
I can't belong with thee.

["If I forsake my husband
And my children three,]
What have you to keep me on,
For to keep me from slavery, O ry,
For to keep me from slavery?"

"I have ships all on yonder sea,
Sailing from sea to dry land;
Besides I have three hundred twenty sailor lads,
They'll be at your command, O mand,
They'll be at your command."

She dress-ed herself in richery attire,
And so gaily where she did dress;
She went a-walkin' u and down the deck
With her dress all glittering gold, O gold,
With her dress all glittering gold.

They hadn't sailed much more than two weeks,
Two weeks had scarce come, and three,
Before she was heard to cry on deck
And to weep most bitterly, O ly,
And to weep most bitterly.

"Do you weep for gold," says he,
"Or do you weep for fee?
Or do you weep for the house carpenter
That you left when you came along with me, O me,
That you left when you came along with me?"

"I don't weep for gold," she says,
"Nor do I weep for fee,
Nor do I weep for the house carpenter
That I left when I came along with thee, O thee,
That I left when I came along with thee.

"But if I was worth ten thousand pounds,
So freely I'd give it to thee
If I could once more go on yonder shore
My two [three] little babes to see, O see,
My two [three] little babes to see."

They hadn't sailed much more than three weeks,
Three weeks, scarce coming four,
Before there was a leak spring up on their deck,
And her cries were heard no more, O more,
And her cries were heard no more.

Three times around went our gallant ship,
Three times around went she,
Three times around went our gallant ship,
And she sunk to the bottom of the sea, O sea,
And she sunk to the bottom of the sea.

May a curse be onto the ship's carpenter,
May a curse do them for life,
May a curse be onto the ship's carpenter,
To persuade away another man's wife, O wife,
To persuade away another man's wife.

According to Norman Cazden (FOLK SONGS OF THE CATSKILLS) George Edwards was from Sullivan County, along the Beaverkill. He lived in Grahamsville and in Roscoe. He was born March 31, 1877, in Hasbrouck. See here, and scroll up to page 19:

http://books.google.com/books?id=1ZKis4hmioIC&pg=PA274&dq=Well+met,+well+met,+my+own+true+love&hl=en&ei=-D7dToXoFKbq0gGR36W5Dw&s

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 06:54 PM

I want to thank Dave Ruch for sending me a copy of Lee Knight's singing of "The Gypsy Daisy." This is actually a rather unique merging of the ballad of "The Gyspy Davey" and the ballad of "The House Carpenter." When you listen to it, it makes perfectly good sense! Lee Knight got this song from the collection of Marjorie Lansing Porter. She collected this version "from the singing of Alec Couchey of Essex NY, August 30, 1957." Knight goes on to say,

"The ballad merges two of the Child Ballads, The Gypsy Davey with The House Carpenter.  It also includes a verse from Lord Thomas and Fair Annet (Child 73): 'She dressed herself in rich array....'  This is probably a family version since there is a similar text in Mrs Porter's notes attributed to Ora James, sister of Alec."  Here is "The Gypsy Daisy." It is sung to the tune of "The Gypsy Davey."

The Gypsy Daisy

The Gypsy came tripping o'er the hill,
The Gypsy sang so gaily,
He made the wide, wide wind blow,
And he won the heart of a lady.

Will you forsake your house and farm?
Will you forsake your baby?
Will you forsake your house carpenter
To roam with the Gypsy Daisy?

If I forsake my house and farm,
If I forsake my baby,
If I forsake my house carpenter,
To roam with the Gypsy Daisy.
Have you anything to maintain me upon
And keep me from my slavery?

I have a hundred ships that are out at sea,
All making for dry land,
With two hundred and ten bold jolly sailor men
Who will be at your command.
I will take you to where the grass grows green
On the banks of the sweet Willie.

Then I'll forsake my house and farm,
Then I'll forsake my baby.
And I'll forsake my house carpenter
To roam with the Gypsy Daisy.

Last night I slept on a warm feather bed,
Along with my landlord and baby.
Tonight I'll sleep on the cold, cold ground
Beside the Gypsy Daisy.

She dressed herself in rich array,
And riches to behold.
And every street that she passed through,
She showed her glittering gold.

They had not been at sea but about two weeks,
I'm sure it was not three.
When this young maid began to weep
Then wept most bitterly.

Is it for my gold that you weep,
Or is it for my store?
Or is it for the house carpenter
You never will see any more.

It is not for your gold I weep,
Nor is it for your store.
But it's all for the love of the darling little babe,
That I never will see any more.

They had not been at sea about three weeks,
I'm sure it was not four.
When the ship sprang a leak and she sank in the sea
And she sank to rise no more.

Bad luck, bad luck to all sea-faring maids,
Bad luck to all their lives,
But it's robbing of the house carpenter
And the stealing of their wives.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:23 AM

And also from Dave Ruch:

The House Carpenter (fragment)      by Celia Kelter, Tabasco, NY

If you'll forsake your house carpenter
And go along with me.
What have you got to support me on
And to keep me from slavery?

Don't you see those yonder ships,
As bright as bright can be,
I will make you the mistress of them all
If you will follow me.

Dave says: "Celia Kelter was 73 years old in October 1950 when she was recorded by folklorist/collector Sam Eskin.  She was a lifelong resident of the town of Tabasco NY in Ulster County in the Catskills." [She was born in 1877.]

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:03 AM

Does anybody have a copy of Sarah Ogan Gunning's album "The Silver Dagger" (Rounder), from about 1976? She sings a version of "The House Carpenter" on this album. I have been unable to find either a recording of it online or the lyrics. I'd welcome the lyrics and any background information of her version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:18 AM

Here is some background on Edith Cutting's family.

http://books.google.com/books?id=MElT30avx4wC&pg=PA11&dq=An+Essex+County+Family,&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XED7Tt_hNMrb0QGY-qHBAg&sqi=2&ved=

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Demon Lover in New England?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:28 PM

Here are two broadside editions of "The House Carpenter," one of which appears to tbe the DeMarsan version.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amsshtml/amssTitles14.html

Here is the one with no date or publisher. Could this be the Philadelphia version?

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/S?ammem/amss:@field(TITLE+@od1(The+house+carpenter++%5Bn++p+%5D+%5Bn++d+%5D))

And here is a picture of the actual broadside:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=amss&fileName=as1/as105530/amsspage.db&recNum=0&itemLink=S?ammem/amss:@field(TITLE+@

We are still looking for more information on the so-called "Philadelphia Broadside" version.