Ceilidh Question UK

Subject: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 04:44 AM

I've just watched a video clip of a dance where the dancers did a do-si-do as they did it they all folded their arms, having played for lots of ceilidhs over the years I've noticed that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't I've never heard any of our callers tell dancers to do this during the walk through but it still happens so where does it originate is it a regional thing?or is a throwback to country dance lessons at primary school?

Gerry

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Howard Jones
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:11 AM

Our caller says it is so teachers would know where the pupils' hands were!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:36 AM

thanks Howard but why only on a do-si-do and not on a forward and back or crossover where the teachers would also want to know where the pupils' hands were

Gerry

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Peter C
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:46 AM

One of our regular callers tells the dancers that arms folded is the US way of doing it!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: treewind
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:06 AM

the US way of doing it

I've always thought that was it.
Rather like the reason why half of them turn up in check shirts and cowboy hats...

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: terrier
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 10:39 AM

Popular belief you'st to be that it was after people had watched 7 Brides for 7 Brothers 'Barndance' sequence at the flicks. Although in the movie their arms stay firmly by their sides, it's a good job other mind blowing moves from the scene wern't brought into common use. Anyone for pole..er plank dancing :)

Barndance YouTube

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 02:29 PM

This has been discussed on callers lists too and the school teacher answer seems to be favoured. Some of the illustrations in older books have this.
But now if you see people cross there arms (or wear cowboy hats), then you guess that they don't do this kind of dancing very often.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 05:23 PM

That also applies to people who swing using crossed hands - one can only safely use htis method when there is plenty of room; not a common circumstance at ceilidhs!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 08:51 AM

Just a theory - but maybe it was put forward (by the aforementioned teachers or whoever) to prevent accidental contact caused by flailing arms and hands?

As to why it's just the do-si-do, the key difference I can think of is that in the do-si-do the second part of the manoeuvre is done back to back (hence the alternative name). So whilst in a forward-and-back or a crossover you can always see the person opposite you and hopefully be aware of where their trailing extremities are, the do-si-do / back-to-back breaks the visible connection and leaves you vulnerable to accidental contact on the return leg of the movement.

Having, down the years, been dealt a couple of blind-side hits at festival ceilidhs that wouldn't have been out of place on an American football field, I'm all in favour of trying to minimise the damage caused by the uncoordinated and/or the hard of thinking by keeping their arms well out of the way. That, of course, coupled with a moderate and proportionate programme of punishment beatings for repeat offenders :)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:00 AM

How come all these peculiar terms, dozydough, promenade [lately pronounced 'promenaid!'] , strip the willow etc ?

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:18 AM

Many are French from the language of the dancing masters.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:19 AM

little lambs eativi

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Marje
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:34 AM

It was "promenaid" when I did square dancing as a teenager. This is not quite as long ago as the days of the dancing masters, but does suggest it's been pronouced that way for several decades at least.

An undeucated guess: could some of these terms have come from French Canadian dances, and then into the UK via American square dances?

Strip the Willow has probably some connection with - well, stripping the bark off a willow twig. You'd pull off a bit one side, a bit the other side, and so on --- no, not that hand! Right to your partner, that's it ... now left to the next ... no, no, remember you're a man, dance with the ladies!
I should think stripping a willow twig was less complicated.

Marje

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Peter C
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:47 AM

One of our callers also tells the dancers that 'do-si-do' is US and 'back to back' is English!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: s&r
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 07:03 PM

dos a dos is French


Stu

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Ringer
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 04:16 AM

I started folk dancing more than 40 years ago. I notice that callers these days sometimes use movements that were unknown (at least by me) then (eg the double figure-eight -- 2s cast while 1s cross down to start, or the dolphin hey).

Was my early experience limited, or are these movements actually newly "invented"? If the latter, then do we know by whom?

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Marje
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:05 AM

Yes, "dos a dos" is French but I am not at all sure that the French use the expression. "Do-si-do" is the authentic US and British version.

If a caller tries calling "back to back" instead of do-si-do, dancers sometimes misunderstand and turn round so they approach each other backwards. Best stick to do-si-do.



Marje

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:49 PM

Americans might say that Back-to-back is English, but they use 'English' to mean Playford dances. Could always use both terms then people might recognise one or the other.
People will always find ways to misunderstand you (some you could never have imagined).

Ringer, I think a lot of complications have been added to dances as enthusiasts take over the clubs that could never have been danced by people who danced a Harvest, Christmas and Weddings. Moves get imported from other traditions, e.g. from Playford to Contra, Scottish to English. I'm fairly sure Dolpin Hey is new. But If you want an expert answer this list will have someone who knows. They've discussed the question about arm folding too.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: terrier
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:04 PM

Only if you are a member :(

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM

Also 'Alleman' left/ right?

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:37 AM

Easy enough to join if you are interested.

Years ago we took our (then 4 yr old) daughter to dance in Chester shopping precinct. Afterwards she talked about 'that dance where you do a lemonade' ...'a what?' ... 'you know, you walk round'

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Howard Jones
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:20 AM

"Just a theory - but maybe it was put forward (by the aforementioned teachers or whoever) to prevent accidental contact caused by flailing arms and hands? "

I'd assumed it was to prevent deliberate contact.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:29 AM

Ah, yes, good call :)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 08:34 AM

Do you also notice that the 'folded arms' dancers have an exaggerated knee bounce, too?! Cowboy films is my theory, too!!

;o)

Such a shame we're not all perfect...!!

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Marje
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 01:23 PM

Perhaps they're getting mixed up with the "sailor's hornpipe" dance?

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:49 AM

Bernard. Why have you lot gone and clashed your Time Bandits ceilidh with Hawk Green's White Knuckle Ride dance? Two of my favourite bands (through one is a ceilidh and the other a dance)

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:47 AM

Mo the Caller, just out of curiosity, what does the "little lambs eativi" comment refer to?


DC

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 06:05 AM

After puzzling for a couple of days, I've just had an "Aha!" moment within minutes of pushing the submit button. It's "Maizy Dotes and Dozy Dotes" (or however you spell it), isn't it?


DC

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: terrier
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 09:14 AM

Ah! Deja vu

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 09:28 AM

Sorry, it was Mr.H's fault talking about
"all these peculiar terms, dozydough, promenade [lately pronounced 'promenaid!'] , strip the willow etc ? "

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Megan L
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 09:58 AM

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Megan L
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 10:03 AM

dratted nails what I was going to say was when I was at school arms were always linked or touched while passing. I did get in bother once for being somewhat to enthusiastic on a swing during the dashing white sergeant sending the boy who had upset me sliding the whole length of the gymnasium to end up under the stacked chairs.

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: terrier
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 10:34 AM

I think I've just seen that in an old Popeye cartoon on youtube, I wish I could have been there to see it though {GRIN}

Subject: RE: Ceilidh Question UK
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 11:02 AM

...that arms folded is the US way of doing it!...

Nope 'taint. When I was square dancing, folded arms was considered old fashioned.

Nowadays, just keep your arms straight down by your sides like Irish Dancers.

Also in American Square Dancing, other forms of do-si-do have been given different pronunciations and names to avoid confusion.