BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!

Subject: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 01:49 PM

I knew those new, rosy, crunchy apples were orful good last night-- just right sweet/tart ratio... we left a basket of them on the kitchen island, as we do, so they are handy to grab as we pass by.... seems like someone else was munching on them just before we came down this AM.

Hardi at store now getting requisite materiel. (TBTG these are county rats (not city rats), with no cows in the barn this year a-soiling their paws.)

Guess the anti-rodentia cat has to move back down from the second floor now. Rats!

They had not broken into the bread and lentils yet, so again TBTG! Hopefully the deep freeze finally on here will keep 'em where they are, ELSEWHERE. I hate killing rats!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 02:14 PM

When I saw the title I thought you were sharing this amazing article about beneficial uses of trained rats to detect everything from landmines to cancer.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 02:15 PM

Susan, how do you know they're rats and not mice? Did you actually see them, or were there other signs? Here in UK rats carry Weil's disease, so you're wise to take steps to get rid of them. I used to live in a huge area of wild land, and rats often got in. I never ever left food out at night, but put it all in sealed plastic bins. I once had a rat clinging on to the back of my tall fridge, the cats had chased it up there! I opened the back door and wheeled the fridge backwards into the opening. The rat then scarpered. Are you scared of them, or just disgusted? I'm not scared, but find them dirty creatures.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 02:31 PM

Alberta is advertized as a rat-free province- false, they are common in the eastern boundary area.
I saw an article that said the rat population in New York City far exceeds the human population. I know that is true of San Antonio, where we often saw them. One bar in particular (no, they were not pink). where they did a tightrope act on a molding near the ceiling.

Mostly "field" mice here in Calgary, no rats. We have a population living under the back deck. White foots, subsisting partly on seed dropped from the bird feeders. They get in the house occasionally and we have to set traps.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 03:22 PM

Voles here. We have a Great Horned Owl that visits during the summer (and I think I've heard him/her this winter!). The number of voles has gone way down since the owl moved in.

Haven't had 'em in the house, so far. If they come in they die. For that matter if I find 'em nesting in the yard they die.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: pdq
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:55 PM

When rodents are getting into your house, the only thing that relly works is exclusion.

That is mostly carpentry with a little bit of pest control.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:56 PM

Eliza, I would imagine it is the size of the poop they leave behind that was Susan's clue as to identity. Big difference in size between the two!

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 06:05 PM

My daughter (semi-rural B. C.), had a packrat in the house last week. She borrowed a live trap and caught it, releasing it outside.
Attractive heads (nose not projecting as far as Rattus or mice). A protected species in some areas. In piñon country in northern New Mexico, is is illegal to raid their nests of stores of this nut.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 06:08 PM

Live trap 'um and BBQ the sumabiches... Tastes like chicken!!! Yummmmmm...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 06:14 PM

I saw an article that said the rat population in New York City far exceeds the human population.

Urban myth & total nonsense. See Robert Sullivan, RATS
Bloomsbury, NY, 2004 and Robert M. Corrigan RAT CONTROL GIE Media, Cleveland, Ohio, 2001.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 10:01 PM

That true, it is an urban myth. Rats do not outnumber the population of New York City -- the alligators do.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 10:14 PM

Eliza-- size of the tooth marks in apples. Have had pet mice-- these not mice. Annual attempt to enter, with rats-- usually weather-predictable (farm property). This is just one of the bad years, thanks to the weird weather patterns. Usually there is a week of severe control via cat patrols, and then it's cold enough that they are not mobile and looking here for a warm spot-- they have found one, more cat-free, nearby.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 11:53 PM

Don't eat brown jelly beams.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 12:48 AM

Exterminate. Exterminate! EXTERMINATE! (spoken like a Dalek)

Well, at least catch and release.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 07:35 AM

I'm glad you mentioned the size of their droppings, ranger 1, as I was wondering if Susan had! They're quite distinctive. Here in UK the Pest Control Officer comes round (free) and puts down several small cardboard boxes with 'bait' in. (pellets of poison) The rats eat it, then go back to their nest and die of haemorrhage. Not nice, but it has to be done somehow. The boxes are designed so that pets/wildlife can't get at the poison. The Officer comes back a few times to check, and refills the boxes if necessary. My neighbour had rats in her loft, and they chewed the electricity wires!

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:08 AM

Yup, but no poison here-- too many critters we do not want to eat it. One is the house shrew-- they breed very slowly, do not climb up into cabinets, and are carnivorous-- they keep the mouse and rat population down naturally to cat-manageable proportions.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 12:29 PM

Took me till noon to find the evidence Hardi left me of the overnight activity:

Home Team 1
The Visitors 0

To wit, one enormous rat zapped with a snapjaw-type trap-- left frozen for us to look over later. I'm very sorry to be hoping that it was mama rat, but if so it was so preggers that... we may have nipped this incursion in the bud. (And if so I do grieve for the slow extinction the wee ones would have had inside her. OTOH if that was papa rat, it's too bad his roaming days ended at OUR house!)

Hardi'll be home shortly for the joint forensic/sexing exam.

I just hope The Campground Committee doesn't hear about this!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 07:12 PM

Rapparee. Thanks for the correction.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 09:19 PM

It was a male. Hardi has found the run, with droppings.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 12:32 AM

Is it true that rats are easier to trap than mice because they are more habitual in their activities? If so, finding the run should make it relatively easy to clear them out.

Our suburban home gets mice in late fall or whenever the weather changes. They try to "come in for the winter." Some years there are few if any, some years we are catching them under the kitchen sink for days on end. This has been a quiet year. We got a sudden deep freeze last month, which may have helped, from our point of view if not theirs. Then it warmed up and we just had a second quick deep freeze. So I think any that didn't find a good winter home early on are, so to speak, toast. (But no, not toasty.)

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: pdq
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:27 PM

Good thing you don't live in Virginia...

                                                                      CD rat law

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 03:44 PM

Oh, that is just insane.

Getting rid of rats ain't easy. They are smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 04:00 PM

No visitors last night.

The basket of apples that set off all this hullabaloo has been on that kitchen island for at least the last year, with no disturbance until this week. The drygoods shelves also have never been disturbed, even in a bad year. And the house shrews have taken care of crumb policing in the area where the cats are fed.

We are moving a few of the traps to a storage area that has, in the past, been an occasional point of entry and breeding in bad years. When THAT area gets a few, look out-- it took a long time to get rid of them in any of the years they set up house back there. There is easye rodent access to that area from under the house where we cannot get at it. No crawl space, nuttin' there-- the addition has no real foundation to speak of and the sill plates just sit on a few flakes of Pennsylvania bluestone. It's not our house and we are not tearing up the floors, LOL. It's a great breeding ground for rats, but as long as they STAY there they are welcome to it!

If we continue visitor-free in the kitchen, we'll just let the cats rule as they had been doing.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 08:14 PM

No visitors again last night. Moving operations to the Wayback (cold storage) which is below the attic dorm.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:08 AM

what you need is a good snake.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:35 PM

Followed by a mongoose etc etc

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:01 PM

Snakes are good. I made a snake pit next to my camp. 2X6's on the narrow edge with 8 1.5" X 1.5" notches cut on the bottom side. I made it about 2.5' X 4'. I placed an old piece of metal roofing on top with rocks to weigh it down. Snakes galore! No mice. Ya can do the same thing with a garbage can lid but a snake pit box works a lot better. Of course, if you live where nasty snakes live it might not be the best idea.

Hehehee... me buddy saw it for the first time and asked me what it was. I said, "Oh, this is cool. Follow me but we gotta move fast." I ran to the pit and flung the cover off. Musta been over 50 snakes and they were tryin to get away fast, goin every which way. Turned to my buddy and asked, "Hey, where ya goin?" He was on a dead run. Scared a snakes BIG time! I thought a pickin one up and seein if I could convince me buddy they were harmless but I figured that woulda been cruel to the snake. I suppose scarin the snakes in the first place was cruel.

Oh, yeah... ya gotta have some big rocks on accounta coyotes will roll small rocks off. Bears... well, all ya can do is piss on the rocks often.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:06 PM

I do like snakes, gnu, but a snake that can swallow a large rat would be some snake! We have 4-5ft long grass snakes here in UK, and I think they eat mice but I'm not sure they could tackle a rat. Poisonous adders, fatter but shorter, could immobilise one and kill it, but they don't usually live near houses. Anyone know if a grass snake could eat a rat?

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Crowhugger
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:11 PM

According to this info, UK grass snakes don't go for mammals in general so I wouldn't rely on them for rat or mouse control.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:48 PM

Yes, that figures, Crowhugger. I had one ('Hissing Sid') in my last garden, and it spent a lot of time swimming in my wildlife pond, presumably hoovering up the little frogs and newts in there. He (or she) was magnificent, I could touch him gently if I was careful. I couldn't picture any UK snake dealing with a rat!

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 04:04 PM

Snakes might help control rats by eating eggs or young, even though they cannot handle adults.

I loathe rats, and anything that gets rid of them is all to the good.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Skivee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:17 PM

PDQ. ken Cuccinelli's comments are wrong on many fronts.
The rats are not caused by the Occupy DC protesters. Surely you would not be surprised to know that there are large rat populations in every temperate city in the world.
The ODC sites are located square in downtown DC, along with hundreds of restaurants, trash dumpsters, trash cans
Lots of conservative talking heads have been demanding that the NPS kick out the protesters, stating that they are creating a HUGE rat problem, and that the liberally led Park service refuses to do their duty and kick the bums out.
NPS has clearly stated that the ODC protesters are exercising their free speech rights.
The rats of DC are not dependent on the protesters. They have the refuse of 1.5 million DC area residents to gnaw through.
NOBODY is going to transport DC rats into Virginia so that they can live in a beautiful, free-range rat paradise. Rats in DC are not protected by any law that mandates live trapping methods. The various rodent control companies kill them by the ton. Cuccinneli's claims are most likely intended to:
1) take a shot the Washington, because folks, who doesn't love a good knee-jerk DC bashing.
2)Blame the protesters for a problem that was there before they arrived, and one that exists EVERYWHERE.
3) Frighten the residents on Northern Virginia into believing that millions of DC rats are being set to vacation in VA.
It would be more honest of he just talked about why he doesn't agree with the positions of the ODC protesters on the merits of the arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: pdq
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:05 PM

I provided a link called "CD rat law" when I meant "DC rat law".

I looked over several versions of the story, picking that one due to the wonderully smug-looking rat pictured.

It concerns "D.C.'s new rat law, the Wildlife Protection Act of 2010" as mentioned in that article. For other opinions, hopefully the actual text, you can do your own looking. Thanx.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Skivee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:00 PM

The law you are talking about is not about rats, which are specifically exempted.
The sources of your story are misquoting and spinning to make a political protest seem like they are putting the poor people of Northern Va. in danger, in another example of commie-lefties trying to ruin your life.
Here's what a mainstream local TV station, WUSA/WTOP, had to say when they fact-checked the story.
They say Ken was wrong, wrong, wrong,wrong, and very slightly right
There WAS a modest (and stupid) proposal from some tree-huggers a few years ago that rats in the DC suburb of Takoma Park be transported about 20 miles away to the upper Montgomery County area and released. Locals swiftly told the Takoma Park supporters where they could put their rats. That's the closest thing to your story that has happened in the region.
Rats that have been raised from pups as pets can be really fun; but nobody who has endured a real wild rat infestation would ever think that this plan is a good idea.
PDQ, If your sources were reporting facts, instead of passing fabrications around as fact, I would be right there on line with you. They are not.
You should consider getting more truthful sources for your news. You opinions are being formed based buckets of lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Skivee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:10 PM

here's the law
The rat exception is clearly marked early in the text

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: pdq
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:51 AM

A little more research show that the D. C. rat law comes from one Mary Cheh, Ward 3 of D. C. City Council.

Here is more from her:

"They don't know what they're talking about," said Cheh, who was particularly critical of Cuccinelli. "Either that or he's out-and-out misrepresenting [the bill] to make a cheap point. Either way, it's pathetic."

Cheh added that her bill applies only to professional pest control outfits.

"Would these people prefer we just allowed these [businesses] to drown animals in a tub or beat them over the head with a baseball bat?" she asked. "They are so ignorant and keen to make some stupid, cheap point that they don't care what the law actually says."

Great. So private citizens can kill rats in their own houses, but pest control companies are reqiuired to humanely trap and relocate them...to Virginia?

At least that is how the law seems to be enforced.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Skivee, guesting in.
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:30 PM

"...but pest control companies are required to humanely trap and relocate them...to Virginia?"

PDQ. the law specifically exempts rats and mice...exempt...does not apply...straw horse argument.
The law is written to address problems with squirrels, chipmunks, skunk, possum, raccoon, deer, coyote, and the like.
You appear to be unaware that DC has a substantial wooded area, Rock Creek Park, running through most of the city. This is the source of enough large animals that the law was a good idea...but the law isn't about rats or mice.
It is not a law that protects rats. Rats Not Protected. Rats Not Transported. Rats not pampered. Rats KILLED. Rats Not Sent To Virginia.
Rats not mailed to Ken Cuccinelli. Rats not delivered to his mom's house. Rats Not sent to your house. Rats KILLED.
So are you clear on the basics Re:rats and this law now? If not I suggest you reread the text of the actual law. The wording is quite transparent.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 12:09 PM

I saw a rat cross my garden a while back, and did two things - covered the old tumble dryer vent with a rusty baking tin wedged in place with a flower pot, and bought a cage trap.

I looked around for a reasonable bait, and hit upon dried liver from the pet shop. I left the trap out without bait, and un-set for a couple of days. Then I added the bait, still without setting the gate. It disappeared. I set the trap. The bait moved to the the side of the trap while the gate shut. I reset it. The same thing happened. I suspect that the wood mouse had been taking the bait, and the last piece was too big to pull out between the bars.

There has been no sign of the rat again.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~) .... CATS! (thread name change?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 12:20 PM

THREAD-MORPH!

Guess what is trying to move in NOW?

CATS.

Happens we need one, so kewl.

"Marcellus" is an apparent gas-worker-abandoned kitteh. Young male. He has twice made it in past Hardi's quick feet, so he must be Hardi's new basement kitteh!

(Gold/orange tabby w/med-long hair)

He has successfully owned the freezing, stone-floored porch (and the food we set out last night)... This AM he was waiting for mommie to open the door with more food ("GOOD KITTEH!"), so she scooped him up and sent him for a few hours to Inner Siberia (unheated storage room warmer than outside, with kitty pan).... where Hardi has just spent a few minutes bonding over... more fud!

Next he goes down to the warm basement, with lots of 3-D Space to Explore and a lovely warm boiler to sleep on top of. And lots of rodentia, for din-din to supplement the large amounts of dry food and water we will give him.... as soon as he proves that he can operate the kitteh door and find his way back down there at mealtime....

At which time he will go for Shots and Tutoring.

Yay!

A second (I think female) is also trolling for a home. Sorta tortie. She is considerably more feral so... we'll see how she goes.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 08:44 PM

You'd better grab one of them, preferably both, and have them neutered, or you'll have a cat problem instead of a rat problem.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 10:12 PM

SQUEAM ALERT

SRS, yes I know. (I once had to personally euthanize 7 barn cats.) I did post that tutoring is in the plan-- the local jargon for the procedure.

We will catch the girlcat as soon as we get him done, because we think they may be litter mates wanting to share the basement. She has not found the basement yet, and he's locked in for a few days.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 11:07 PM

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread. Got the first one or two, then came back via a lateral link (thanks!).

Good luck with that project. The cats will do the trick for you if you can make them welcome there. What semi-wild cat can resist the challenge of chasing mice? It's meat on the hoof.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: Skivee
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 02:53 AM

I'd recommend against using poison. If they die in walls or burrowed into insulation, you will never forget that smell.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 06:38 AM

You're right, Skivee, my neighbour with the rats in her roof, the one who got the Pest Control man out, had to open up the loft space. Several dead rats were rotting in there and the smell was nauseating. But, as with dead mice (of which I've had a few (Frank Sinatra?) due to the cats bringing in tasty treats) the smell goes away immediately once the corpse is removed. And dead rats are infinitely better than live ones!

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 10:02 AM

Dear Eliza, the immortal words of my favourite 20th century poet come almost hauntingly to mind:
"I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones."
TS Eliot, 'Selected Poems',published by Faber and Faber, London, 1961.

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 04:39 PM

"I shall rush out as I am, and walk the streets with my hair down, so.. " I remember The Waste Land, (Game of Chess) Manuel. That bit always made me imagine doing just that, with nothing on. I had very long hair as as student in Edinburgh. But it would have been a bit chilly, and the Scots were rather conservative in those days!
(Sorry about the thread drift!)

Subject: RE: BS: Oh....:~( .... RATS!
From: GUEST,Manuel
Date: 23 Jan 12 - 05:49 PM

No, Eliza! No apology needed for that sweet reverie, which, in fact, also set me adrift for a moment or two. Thanks for the reply.