Just where IS Glocca Morra?

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 07:24 PM

I thought Fennario was in South Africa.

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 07:20 PM

On the old main road from Dublin to Cork, just north of the town of Fermoy (in North County Cork) there's an old army encampment (once British Army, now Irish) at a place called Kilworth. Just outside the main entrance is an enormous roadhouse/pub called The Glocca Morra Inn. My guess is that it was once a whorehouse! I'm not sure whether the name is genuinely local or came from the song. I'll check.

BTW, there is also, nearby, (or certainly was when last I travelled that road) the ruin of what looks to have been a much smaller pub/inn, long since fallen in. It may well have been that one was used by officers and the other by other ranks. Just a speculation.

Regards

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 06:31 PM

Sorry, NW. Didn't mean to cause confusion. It was a joke. Fennario is a mythical place Bob Dylan talks about on his first album, says he's never been able to find it.

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: NightWing
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 06:20 PM

Paul,

A bit further in that same Wikipedia article I cited, it says, "James Stephens' immortal work, The Crock of Gold (first published in 1912) refers to 'the leprecauns of Gort na Gloca Mora' ('the field of the big rock' in Gaelic) and there would appear to be little doubt that this formed the basis for the place-name of the song's title."

So your figuring "glock" = "clogh" = "rock" seems right on.

Cool Beans,

Where's "Fennario"? I don't recall that being in the song (but I could be mistooken :-)

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 06:13 PM

I think it's somewhere near Fennario.

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:48 PM

Glock is probably "clogh", a stone; the rest could be O'Meara or something like that. Just a guess. It may well be the name of an area rather than a single point, hence "in" Glockamorra rather than "at" the place.

In nostalgia, it might as wewll be Corkadorkey.

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:47 PM

Thank you for posting this, NightWing. I did read it all and I'm just as curious. So there are still a few puzzles around. This is what I love about Mudcat.
Surely there's an Irish 'catter willing to take this up?
Watching and waiting.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:35 PM

So you found Glackamorra?

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: NightWing
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:26 PM

John, you didn't read the post, did you? It ain't just the composer who wondered about Glocca Morra. The Cork County Council says there's a place called "Gloccamara".

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: Just where IS Glocca Morra?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:18 PM

It's all pie in the sky my friend. A figment of the writer's imagination

Subject: oddball request for Irish 'Catters
From: NightWing
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 05:14 PM

Some days ago, I stumbled over the old song "How Are Things in Glocca Morra?" by Burton Lane and E.Y. Harburg, for the movie Finian's Rainbow. And I got curious about this place. According to the Wikipedia article on the song,

There is no actual Glocca Morra in Ireland (though there is a Glockamara, pronounced the same way). How Are Things in Glocca Morra?

So I wondered: where is this Glockamara? Google Maps and MapQuest show no such place name and a quick Google search revealed nothing.

But searching Google a little more revealed this news item from an Irish news outlet: <http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0122/rta.html>. It mentions that one of the people killed in a traffic accident was "from Glockamara in North Cork". Another news item on the same accident <http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24716397.html> says that this person was "from Glockamara near Mitchelstown in Co Cork".

And there I got stuck. I searched Google Maps for such a place name in a circle of about 20 km around Mitchelstown (northeastern Cork) and found nothing. Back to Google and searched further.

Finally, after several DAYS of wading through Google results, I stumbled on this webpage: <http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/489662566.pdf>. This is a PDF document from the Cork County Council, titled "Cork County Special Speed Limit Bye-Laws for Regional & Local Roads", dated December 2010. On page 140, it says

R639 The Moorepark Interchange to Gloccamara
On the R639 from the proposed 60 Kph speed limit on the north eastern side of the north eastern roundabout (Irish National Grid 181,990.10E, 101,295.59N) at Moorepark Interchange to the existing 80 Kph speed limit on the southern side of Gloccamara (Irish National Grid 181,198.60E, 107,612.58N).

R639 Gloccamara to the Ballybeg Interchange
On the R639 from the existing 80 Kph speed limit on the northern side of Gloccamara (Irish National Grid 180,925.29E, 109,381.98N) to the proposed 60 Kph speed limit on the southern side of Ballybeg Interchange (Irish National Grid 181,198.60E, 107,612.58N).

With the aid of a converter also found on the web somewhere, I turned these Irish National Grid locations into Latitude/Longitude:

Gloccamara (Irish National Grid 181,198.60E, 107,612.58N) 52.220452, -8.275731
Gloccamara (Irish National Grid 180,925.29E, 109,381.98N) 52.236326, -8.279933

Google Maps claims that these two spots are about 2 km from each other on the R667 (rather than the R639?) about 3-5 km south of Mitchelstown: the northern point about half a kilometer north of "Gortnahown" (and immediately south of the M8); the southern, near "Caherdrinny" (about 1 km north of "Kilworth Camp"). However, nowhere does it show a place called "Gloccamara" (or anything even very close to it). Nonetheless, there is a small unlabeled village (???) at a T-intersection about half a kilometer north of the southern point. You can find it on Google Maps at 52.222397, -8.278713.

And what I'm wondering: I know there are one or two 'Catters in Ireland. Is there anybody near (even vaguely near) Mitchelstown who could drive this road and find out where this "Gloccamara" is. Find out if the little crossroads group of houses (and, it appears, a store and a gas station) is the (not so?) imaginary Gloccamara.

BB,
NightWing
(in Colorado, USA, which is why he doesn't go himself :-)