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BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3
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Subject: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Greg F. Date: 29 Mar 12 - 06:51 PM Once again, for the benefit of folks who want to discuss the topic, which I think is an important one, here's a place. I will ignore Bruce entirely from here on out, so am in hopes this thread will not get closed as well. Thanks- Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:12 PM Funeral director said he saw no signs of being in a fight on Trayvon's hands. Where are Trayvon's clothes and why haven't they been tested for powdwer burns......or have they? Where are the clothes Zim was wearing? Where is the documentation of the "wounds" which Zim suffered? Seen a map and pix of the area? How does Zim's statement stack up? (it doesn't) Can someone make a realistic case about how a man of Zim's size was overwhelmed by Martin to the point that he had his arms pinned to the ground and being beaten with TM's fists? And from that strange position how did Zim manage to get to his gun or if TM got it, how did Zim take it away from that position? You can make a list a mile long like this. Perhaps they are holding it all but isn't it time to bring this to a head before it boils over even more than it has? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:29 PM Zimmerman clains his nose was broken... Footage on tonight's news don't substantiate that claim... Fishy story... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:32 PM Music content: Bruce Springsteen is singing "American Skin (41 Shots)" in his current tour. He wrote the song in response to the 1999 killing of Amadou Diallo, an unarmed black man mistakenly suspected by police. Video and lyrics on Springsteen's website from his Tampa, Florida, performance on March 23, 2012. At his show in Philadelphia this week, he dedicated the song to Trayvon Martin. Mudcat thread on the song ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:36 PM To find previous thread(s), look for "BS: Killed for Being Black? #2" and "BS: Killed for Being Black? Florida today". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: gnu Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:41 PM I wish a mod would combine these threads. And, the conjecture is not necessary. What is necessary is that Z be tried in a court of LAW. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 29 Mar 12 - 07:55 PM Wow, Becky... We were in Blowing Rock, NC today and I went into a record store looking for Bruce's new CD, "Wrecking Ball"... The owner didn't have it but said she would try to get by the time we go back home tomorrow on our way home... I'd bet that song is on this CD... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 29 Mar 12 - 08:32 PM WHAT GNU SAID!! If he is innocent, how can a trial by jury hurt him? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Mar 12 - 09:51 PM Bobert, checking his website, it looks like it's not on the new "Wrecking Ball" cd. He must have added "American Skin" to the show in response to the event. The only recording of it is on "Live in New York City", from 2001. If he is innocent, how can a trial by jury hurt him? Well, I don't know that that strictly follows, but I agree a trial is needed. The question is whether this case can cause any reexamination of the larger issues - of this particular case and in our society at large: - why are black men/boys automatically suspect? - why are there failures at "equal protection" and "due process"? - How can "Stand Your Ground" be enforced without making it "License to Kill"? - How can gun ownership rights be reconciled with the human tendency toward idiocy? (Sorry, didn't know how to put that last one fairly.) ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Mar 12 - 11:16 PM "If he is innocent, how can a trial by jury hurt him?" Innocent versus not guilty.......not to mention the number of people who have been freed from DNA evidence after being found guilty of a crime they did not commit. Or the mentality of the community and the newspapers/press/news people in combo push to convict the person THEY believe is guilty.....think Sam Sheppard back in the 50's. But yeah.....We need to see whatever the case evidence is and what a jury will do with it , at least the system moves on. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: katlaughing Date: 30 Mar 12 - 12:07 AM I have stayed out of these threads partly because I knew how they would devolve, but mostly because my grandsons are thirteen, mixed race with their dad's tightly curled black hair and build. My daughter gets teased about her "bodyguards" because they are as tall as she is and large-boned, plus their voices have deepened. I am grateful they live in a mixed ethnicities/races/etc. area, but this kind of thing is very worrisome for a grandma, esp. living so far away. I know they are kept off the streets, etc., but what happens when they get older? Their dad was stopped, years ago whilst driving home from work in his own car. The cops first question to him was "whose car are ya drivin'? Where d'ya get it?" Here it is so many years later and still...I just shake my head and try not to cry. A church here has a marquee that says "Take back America!" I commented on it to Rog (I told this in some other thread, apologies if you've already heard it.) He got so angry about it and said it's just their way of cloaking their racism, of basically saying "we don't want a n****r in the White House." I think he is right in his assessment and I see it everywhere, though here it is also aimed at Hispanics. May the justice in this case be swift and fully exposed for all to see. And, yeah, when our President said that could have been his son, I thought, "yeah, could be one of my grandsons." The only way I can cope with that is to focus on the Now and give thanks for a better world, right here, right now. This or something better for the highest good of all concerned. Thanks for listening and Spaw, thanks for your points. My thoughts exactly. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 30 Mar 12 - 01:20 AM Kat, that is way too close to home. My link above on the words "automatically suspect" is a tumblr entitled "I Could Be Trayvon", set up for people to post examples of racial profiling experiences like your son-in-law's. ... Tally of 'stand your ground' cases rises as legislators rethink law (Tampa Bay Times) A Tampa Bay Times survey, compiled from 31 Florida newspapers and public records, shows that the number of cases in which "stand your ground" has been invoked has climbed dramatically in the past year and a half. The analysis shows that police and prosecutors continue to apply the law unevenly. There are some horrific examples of cases given in the article. I need to find some of the reasoning for why people felt the legislation was needed in the first place. ... There are several recent editorials against the law, and I'm seeing op-eds for it, but not seeing any arguments that I find particularly convincing. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 30 Mar 12 - 03:17 AM I think we should allow the law to decide on this case, not us. http://www.dividedstates.com/black-teen-in-florida-kills-two-white-students-in-cold-blood-no-outrage-and-no-apology-from-obama/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Mar 12 - 08:00 AM AMEN, Bluesman!!! Besides, with EVERYBODY yakking about it, as if forced fed, from the politically activated media, do you think that the defense would move to have it dismissed...because they couldn't find an impartial jury? Yap yap yap! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Wesley S Date: 30 Mar 12 - 08:15 AM Other headlines from Bluesman's "Divided States" website: Maxine Waters – Demon Posessed or Just a Misguided Communist Racist? Is Barbara Boxer an Over the top Condesending, Power Hungry Feminist, Environmentalist Liberal? Stanton Peele – Delusional Hack or Brilliant Psychologist? Should we ask The Tea Party? Democrats Admit They Can Not Win Wisconsin Recall Election Without Fraud, Mickey Mouse and Adolf Hitler Michele Bachmann: ACLU is running the CIA, Obama no friend of Israel, verge of world wide nuclear war Madonna Accused of Performing Satanic Ritual During Superbowl Halftime Show Obama is No Ronald Reagan! If Obama had a Son, He Would Look Like This – Would Burglarize Homes and Have Multiple Suspensions for Marajuana, Grafitti and Assault Ku Klux Klan Member Offers $10,000 Reward for Capture of Black Panther's Party Member Who Murderd White Teen Black Civil Rights Activists Create Fake "Racism" Issue as New Evidence Shows Trayvon Martin was the Agressor All of these articles and more can be found if you follow Bluesman's link. Yeah - who needs the "mainstream" media ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Mar 12 - 09:01 AM Interesting paragraph at the end of the Tampa article which Becky linked(thanks Becky!): ""As far as I'm concerned, that neighborhood watch guy was breaking that law as soon as he started following that kid. He was stalking him. That's not standing your ground," said Rep. Richard "Rich" Glorioso, R-Plant City, who voted for the bill. "If the law is applied right, it's a fine law. But we worried about how people would interpret it, and how it would be applied, when we were discussing it." What may put this case into court where I feel it belongs is the stalking. Told several times not to follow him, Zimmerman continued to follow Martin to the point of exiting his vehicle and possibly provoking the confrontation. Bluesman.....Go have your hood and white robe monogrammed or something....... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 30 Mar 12 - 09:09 AM Does anybody know the ratio between "lives saved" and "killers gone free"? I bet not. The point is that the law as written seems to encourage results of both kinds. How does it compare to supposedly similar laws in other states? Also, if I'm carrying and somebody is really trying to kill me, will I stop to think that if I shoot I might get in trouble? Maybe, maybe not. But their with life really in danger, wouldn't most gun-toters pull the trigger, "stand-your-ground" law or not? But the SYG law says I don't have to hesitate for a second. That could translate into either another needless shooting or a life saved. How many people really go to jail for shooting an attacker in a life-or-death situation anyway? Is the point of the Florida law just to keep them from facing a trial? Just curious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: bobad Date: 30 Mar 12 - 11:16 AM From The Raw Story "The neighborhood watchman who in February shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was once fired from his job as a security guard for "being too aggressive," according to a new report. An unnamed former co-worker told the New York Daily News that George Zimmerman was paid under-the-table for providing security for illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, but was let go because his anger issues "became a liability." "Usually he was just a cool guy," the former co-worker explained. "He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped." "He had a temper and he became a liability," he recalled. "One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. … It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out." In 2005, the same year that Zimmerman lost his security guard job, he was also arrested for "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer," both third-degree felonies. Those charges were dropped after he agreed to enter an alcohol education program. MSNBC reported that his ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, alleged domestic violence and filed a motion for a restraining order in 2005. Zimmerman then filed for a restraining order against Zuazo and both later dropped their motions. Even with all this history, the former co-worker said he was shocked to hear the news that Zimmerman killed Martin. "He definitely loved being in charge," he said. "He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 30 Mar 12 - 11:16 AM Bluesman (and others!), among other things, what makes this case different from your example is the tragedy (in the classical sense) that it arose from the actions of two people who though they were doing right. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: meself Date: 30 Mar 12 - 01:13 PM Well, I would say that the main difference is that in this case, there has been no arrest and trial, so that there has been formal attempt at figuring out if either or both of the two people involved thought they were doing right. (Maybe they both did; maybe one of them did; maybe neither of them did). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Mar 12 - 01:20 PM ..another problem is that they are treating this like a political poster child, either side, instead of a crime....but that has a lot to do with the susceptibility of those who have traded their common sense for a political stance!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: bobad Date: 30 Mar 12 - 04:07 PM NY Times Op-Ed contributor Rich Benjamin writes, "Gated communities churn a vicious cycle by attracting like-minded residents who seek shelter from outsiders and whose physical seclusion then worsens paranoid groupthink against outsiders." The Gated Community Mentality |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Mar 12 - 05:27 PM Self defence has always been grounds for acquittal in a trial. I'm not clear how "stand your ground" adds to that. Does it mean an assumption any killing with a gun should be assumed to be self defence if the killer claims so, and that there should be no trial in which that claim can be tested? Don't you have grand juries which are supposed to weed out cases that wouldn't stand up in court? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Paul Burke Date: 30 Mar 12 - 06:25 PM Shit from idiocy as predictably usual. Ask these murderers: Why did you see this man as a threat? Why isn't a sick old man someone you would instinctively want to protect? What the blazing hell was going on in your mind? And Shit from Idiocy: you too. explain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 30 Mar 12 - 07:01 PM Seems Zimmerman has a history of anger problems abd could have been convicted of a felony for assaulting a police officer in 2005??? This guy needs to be charged... No lynch mob... Just facts... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 04:14 AM Some of you may recognize these lyrics, those who don't could be forgiven for thinking they were written in the last month or so. i'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight-short sighted- narrow minded hypocritics all i want is the truth just give me some truth i've had enough of reading things by nuerotic-pyschotic- pig headed politicians all i want is the truth just give me some truth no short haired-yellow bellied son of tricky dicky is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me with just a pocketful of hope money for dope money for rope i'm sick to death of seeing things from tight lipped- condescending -mommies little chauvinists all i want is the truth just give me some truth i've had enough of watching scenes of schizophrenic - ego - centric - paranoic - prima - donnas all i want is the truth just give me some truth John Lennon - 1969 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 31 Mar 12 - 06:20 AM But whose truth? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 09:21 AM Want the truth??? The truth is that if Martin was the one with the gun and confronted by Zimmerman and shot Zimmerman in self defense then Martin would be in jail now facing capital murder charges... That's the truth... BTW, this is so overtly racist that it brings back memories of Emmett Till and the Greensboro massacre... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 10:54 AM Sorry, hit wrong button... Don T: "But whose truth?" ...and Bobert answers with "IF"....Speculation based on a prejudged OPINION!: "The truth is that if Martin was the one with the gun and confronted by Zimmerman and shot Zimmerman in self defense then Martin would be in jail now facing capital murder charges... That's the truth..." Whose truth???????????????????????????????...anyone the ideologues MAKE UP! Just LOOK at it...and tell me. You guys are just making stuff up to get all frenzied about...with complete disregard for FACTS.....(Oh, no!..Those pesky little elements of truth! You're making asses out of yourselves! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 11:34 AM It's not opinion, GfinS... One only had to be paying half attention to the events of the last 50 or so years to know the truth... Martin would be in jail... You know it... I know it... A box of creek rocks know it... Your cat knows it... Yer dead Uncle Fred knows it... The birds on my bird feeder know it... I have a box of carburetor parts that knows it... Heck, Zimmerman knows it... Square business... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Mar 12 - 12:33 PM I trust this Zimmerman is no relation to Bob... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,josepp Date: 31 Mar 12 - 03:39 PM There's no need to drag in racism, no need to pontificate on the past of either the victim or the perpetrator. Zimmerman claimed he was acting in the capacity of a crime watch captain. The problem is, a crime watch captain is not supposed to follow much less confront a suspect. He is to observe and report to the police only. Had Zimmerman remained in his vehicle nothing would have happened. Conclusion: Zimmerman was not acting in the capacity of a crime watch captain. Moreover, a crime watch captain is not supposed to be armed and indeed doesn't need to be if he fulfills his objective--to observe and report. No weapon necessary. Zimmerman was armed. Conclusion: Zimmerman did not act in the capacity of a crime watch captain. Had he done so, Trayvon Martin would be alive and Zimmerman would not be in trouble. Those two facts alone convict Zimmerman who was acting as a vigilante and not a crime watch captain. The law never officially backs a vigilante. No other facts are needed. These alone are damning for Zimmerman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 05:07 PM Yeah, where's the arrest warrant??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Mar 12 - 07:36 PM The law never backs a vigilante? ROTFLMAO. You left out "except when he's white and the boy he shot black". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 08:54 PM Umm, bobert, I'm not sure if you aware of this, but in THIS country, under our Constitution, a man is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty....not by past injustices, not to appease a lynch mob, not because a racist hate group such as the KKK OR the 'New' Black Panther Partiers act a vigilantes, and NOT because either political party is trying to stir up shit..to promote their agendas.....NO...the FACTS OR THE CASE have to prove beyond a SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that the accused is in fact guilty! That being said, I'm neither pro or con, as to the particulars of the shooting, or who did what, first etc etc, ad nauseum. But, as a citizen of this country, I'd have to the laws, and courts, with jury(probably) decide it...Not YOU, and any others WHO WERE NOT THERE...or understand the nuances of Florida law. So knock off your political agitation...and your stirring up of hatred, retribution, self aggrandizing 'activism', divisiveness, and just general brain-lock, and try allowing the laws of the land take their course....OK???...You can do that, can't you??...what's the matter, you don't like our Constitution???....Neither do either of the corrupt wings of the 'Bankers Party'. Dinkle-Brain! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 09:09 PM Sure, GfinS... I understand the concept... Do you??? There is more than enough evidence to allow Zimmerman to have his day in court... More than enough... But if Zimmerman is never charged then guess what??? Not only does the state not got to present that evidence but Zimmerman never has to defend squat... B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 09:13 PM BTW, GfinS... You never weighed on the the question I asked if it had been Martin who killed Zimmerman and where Martin would be today??? Care to weigh in??? Didn't think so... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Mar 12 - 09:13 PM Yo Sanitary Guest......Bobertz and most of the rest of us would be happy if they can just get to the point where a JURY decides the case as you stated. At this point the POLICE are the only ones who made a decision and that ain't how its supposed to go. Like you say, "the FACTS OR THE CASE have to prove beyond a SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that the accused is in fact guilty! That being said, I'm neither pro or con, as to the particulars of the shooting, or who did what, first etc etc, ad nauseum. But, as a citizen of this country, I'd have to the laws, and courts, with jury(probably) decide it.." We'd just like to see the trial part get going. How 'bout you? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 10:04 PM When they are ready to make an arrest, and make sure the charges would stick, and they could win in court, then I'm sure they will arrest him. No problem. Oh, and this gem of a turd: "...I understand the concept..." "Concept"??? Are you referring to the Constitutional guarantees? (Guarantees, like, well, never mind....politicos would love to abolish everything that has to do with the individual being protected from the government, and their abuses...I'll get into that later...maybe..) Hey man, be patient. I'm not glad he's not been arrested, nor am i tearing out what hair I got left, gnashing and grinding my teeth, with eager anticipation....but with all the versions of what did, or didn't happen...and only according to what is being REPORTED, let the law take it's course, and wait till an arrest that can be proven, that Zimmerman can be nailed, if guilty UNDER the law. I don't think they are holding off an arrest because the D.A. thinks Zimmerman is cute, and uses a nice cologne! As for your own well-being, lighten up on your system by forcing anxiety and stress on yourself. Chill! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 12 - 10:22 PM Listen, GfinS... Had Martin shot Zimmerman in self defense he would have been arrested... Don't preach law to me... I'll guarantee that I am well versed in the law and represented my former company in court over a 100 times... I know the law as much as most lawyers... So save the lectures... Time for the state to bring charges against Zimmerman... The facts on the ground that are not being contested are ample to charge this guy for "murder 1"... Not 2... Not 3... Not manslaughter... Murder 1... Square business... Murder 1 now!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,josepp Date: 31 Mar 12 - 10:30 PM ////The law never backs a vigilante?//// That is NOT what I said which you will realize when you go back and read the statement again. I've been misquoted! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 11:28 PM Bobert: "Listen, GfinS... Had Martin shot Zimmerman in self defense he would have been arrested..."...Blah blah blah... Prove it, or shut up! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 Mar 12 - 11:41 PM GfS, time will tell. Be patient. His goose is cooked. It's just taking the legal system a little time to prick to pronounce it done. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:15 AM that's WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 10:04 PM (fourth paragraph) ".....Hey man, be patient. I'm not glad he's not been arrested,.." ..and this one: "From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Mar 12 - 08:54 PM " Pretty CLEAR!! and this one: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:32 PM Thank you, Becky (Desert Dancer)for a clear and informative post. Like I said before, people, who are interested, should wait for more information before jumping to conclusions, based on biases, both political, and skewed media reports. GfS ..and this one: Subject: RE: BS: Killed for Being Black? #2 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 29 Mar 12 - 12:10 AM Be patient, and wait for the truth to come out. Remember the time that folk music used to be part of the 'peace/love movement?...Look what politics has done to a lot of you. Peace! GfS or this one: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Mar 12 - 09:58 PM Also, on the news today, it was the prosecutors who told the police to hold off on an arrest, to see if they could substantiate the charges. Come on guys, let's not lose your heads over this...WAIT TILL THE FACTS COME OUT, before you rush to judgment, and make asses out of yourselves..................AGAIN! or this one: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:18 PM "Was he there??? .." ..and neither were YOU....so lay off the lynch mob shit and STFU, until more comes out!! ...and I was being polite, too! " or this one: Subject: RE: BS: Killed for being black? Florida today From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Mar 12 - 12:37 AM I've avoided this post, because, as usual, I figured that it would be an emotional frenzy over incomplete FACTS. As new stuff is coming out, I think we should all wait CALMLY till the complete story comes out..." So, SRS, You and I just may be on the same page about this! Those 'cut and pastes' were from THREE threads on this topic. i'm just trying to convince the blood mongers to sit back, and let the authorities do their job, and if there is an arrest to be made, let's make sure Zimmerman gets a fair trial! Regards! gfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:27 AM We may be on the same page, but I'm not continually flying off the handle like you are. Sit back, fill your glass, let the thread take its course. Chill. Capiche? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:42 AM Oh, I'm cool.....mellow.....and don't take hate speech seriously...'it's just castles burning.....' In fact, SRS,, though I've been taken way out of context, and perception, for about 4-5 years on here, I can't recall when I've been really blowing my top....and usually in a pretty good mood...though some clown likes to portray me as all pissed off, all the time..I'm not. ..and as I posted in the 'way-way backs', that my posts were loaded with great lines, for you...and the object was to 'not tell people WHAT to think, as much as HOW to think'......and that means a clear objectivity. Part of the reasoning is, as a composer, it is incumbent upon me to stay objective about any mood, that I wish to use, if I want to put into music, and be in control of it, rather than it controlling me. Craft. And I think that the music I posted on YouTube, (along with others), displays a huge amount of 'moods'...without me going through every change, myself, and turning into a jello-y pile of moodiness. But, I thank you, for your concern...and Regards To You!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:44 AM Actually, I'm surprised at the difference - your music is quite mellow (I have heard some of your YouTube posts) but here you're off the wall. Whatever drug you use for your music, you might think about using for your typing fingers as well. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Apr 12 - 01:04 AM Ahh..perception, perception, perception.... A huge amount of my posts are tongue in cheek. Little Hawk was the first to note that, when he said something like,"You need a sense of humor, understand a lot of my stuff)." he and I have spoken on occasion, and I think he knows that I am S-O-O-O on your side, as musicians and writers...and has posted as much. My biggest bitch, is that musicians of our age, have 'sold out', and walked away from the very energy of creating WONDERFUL stuff, and been co-opted by bullshit politicians....(certain organized religions too). Nonetheless, if you dug the 'peace and love' in the music....then we've communicated, soul to soul. Again, Wishing You the Finest!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Apr 12 - 01:37 AM SRS,During a period in her life, she wrote this....and was one of her best , and I had the privilege to made made her acquaintance...am even pictured with her, in one of her songbooks....and so many never even heard it...but, I did post it here, in Mudcat Forum...CRAFT!!! Just thought I'd put it in here, again, for the peace, and thought that she relates. Enjoy!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: bobad Date: 01 Apr 12 - 07:37 AM So, it now appears that Georgie Zimmerman is a liar as well as a murderer - surprise, surprise: Forensic experts: Zimmerman was not crying for help on 911 tapes Two forensic voice experts have told The Orlando Sentinel Saturday that neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman was not the voice crying for help in the 911 calls after he shot Trayvon Martin. Tom Owen, a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and a court-qualified expert witness, used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 calls with cries in the background after the shooting on February 26th. "I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen said. "As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman." Another expert, Ed Primeau of Michigan, used audio enhancement and human analysis to also determined that it was the slain teenager's voice instead of his shooter. "I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau told The Orlando Sentinel. "That's a young man screaming." The Raw Story |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,999 Date: 01 Apr 12 - 08:04 AM Dammit, bobad, there you go again confusing the issue with facts . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 12 - 08:28 AM Yeah b-bad... The evidence is stacking up like cord wood... Meanwhile, the prosecutor is "still watching"... As I have wondered all along, I wonder if Mr. Still Watching would be watching if it was Martin who shot Zimmerman claiming self defense... Every day that goes by without an arrest warrant is another day that Jim Crow has a smile on his face... Very much looking like the 1979 Greensboro Massacre where the KKK gunned down peaceful civil rights protesters and no one was charged because the KKK said it felt threatened... Fuck!!! The protesters were marching down an open streets and the KKK was set up behind their pickup trucks with their guns... No charges... Justice doesn't always work given time... Injustice does... Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: meself Date: 01 Apr 12 - 09:59 AM There are those who are unwilling or unable to acknowledge that it was the general public who dug up this case from the shallow grave in which "the justice system" had buried it. There is no reason to believe this same "justice system" will now do its job without being constantly reminded that it is under intense public scrutiny. So, we should not be willing to just forget the matter and blindly trust that the same functionaries who botched the job the first time around will get it right this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 12 - 10:51 AM Yes, the injustice system is trying to run out the clock and banking on the American's people's short attention span... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 01 Apr 12 - 11:43 AM God how boring people love to play the race card at every stroke, he was a thug, red, white or yellow, he was a thug with a history. He attacked George, he defended himself, story over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 12 - 11:50 AM Nope. Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon. Stalking is illegal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:29 PM It ain't "playing the race card" to point out racism... No "play" about it... Just like there was no "play" in the murder of Emmett Till or the civil rights workers murdered while trying to register black voters in the South... No play about them either... Just racism and hate... Might of fact, bluesamn, take your theories about playing the race card" to any southern black community where rural people still play the real blues at picnics and juke joints... You, with your 24K racism do not deserve to call yourself a "bluesman"... Klansman??? Yeah...Bluesman??? No... You disrespect the folks who invented the blues... Square business... B~ (a real bluesman) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:31 PM Sadly it is unfortunate that George was forced to protect himself and his property from a thug,it was a gated area after all. It can literally mean the difference of being taken away on a stretcher or accused of a crime other that in this case, self defence. I am so glad to see so many Americans coming out in support of George. My hope is it stays out of the media, that way it will soon blow over, old news doesn't bring people onto the streets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: bobad Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:52 PM Trayvon had as much right to be in that "gated area" as did Zimmerman. He also had the right to be walking in the street without being stalked by a a violent, armed nutjob. As a matter of fact it could be said that he was standing his ground against an attack from Zimmerman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Apr 12 - 12:52 PM I have not yet seen any evidence that Trayvon Martin was a thug. Is there any? I have seen evidence that Zimmerman, even if not convicted, was. There was no reason Martin should not have been in the gated area. He was a guest of people who lived there. A sign on the gate that said "No Blacks" would have been illegal. At a very quick glance the principal alleged support for Zimmerman is coming from the lunatic right and god-botherers who appear to believe that god was white. Just a quick glance. Thousands however are expected to rally to ask why Zimmerman is not yet set to be tried - when his story can be tested. Even if Zimmerman did have a broken nose and an injury to his head, remember that an unarmed teenager was being stalked by an armed man much heavier and more powerful than him. If Trayvon Martin did use force it seems well within the bounds of reasonable force to me. Shooting him was not a reasonable response. I know that's not the US law, but it weighs with me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Bluesman Date: 01 Apr 12 - 01:13 PM Let the facts speak for themselves. Martin attacked Zimmerman by every account we have so far. Punched him down then while pinning him to the ground was repeatedly banging his head into the deck. The police reported Zimmerman had a broken nose, injuries to the back of his head, and stains on the back of his clothes - very consistent. His lawyers indicate that Zimmerman never said any racial slur. In fact Zimmerman claims that he used the world goon. I actually listened to cleaned up police call via CNN broadcast that Zimmerman made that supposedly contained the "coon" slur and I didn't hear it. And there's a eyewitness who corroborates Zimmerman's version of events. Seems that was good enough for the police, cause they let him go that night. We'll see - but so far it looks like Martin was the aggressor here. Not to burst any Lib bubbles here but it appears Zimmerman mentors two black kids whose mother is a strong defender of Zimmerman and today a black friend of Zimmerman defended him completely. I wonder how Zimmerman is now being labeled racist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Apr 12 - 02:42 PM Surely it isn't a matter of whether Zimmerman killed the boy he was stalking because he was a racist or for some other reason, such as self-defence, but of whether the failure to press any charges against him for the killing was because the police were racist? It's conceivable that this was an act of justifiable self-defence, or a tragic misunderstanding in which Trayvon was himself was defending himself against what he perceived was a stalker. Or perhaps it was indeed a case of a one-man lynch mob. But without some kind of legak process it's left hanging in the air. Rushing to judgement in front of a computer screen is always a mistake - but wanting to see the facts thrashed out in court isn't a case of that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Jeri Date: 01 Apr 12 - 02:54 PM From Fox "News": An expert in forensic voice identification analyzing the 911 recordings in the Trayvon Martin case for the Orlando Sentinel tells the paper that it is likely not Martin's shooter, George Zimmerman, heard calling for help.--more is at the link. At this point, the charges of racism have to be seriously investigated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Apr 12 - 02:58 PM It seems to me that Martin's "attack" was actually self defence. What do you call attacking an armed man who is stalking you (other than "risky")? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 01 Apr 12 - 03:30 PM Getting dizzy watching this thread circle the drain. A grand jury will convene on April 10 if nothing happens sooner. Meanwhile, and interesting analysis of historical context here: In Florida, a Death Foretold. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST Date: 01 Apr 12 - 04:48 PM From the Orlando Sentinel, concerning the charge of manslaughter - quite regardless of the SYG law: "One witness could be Trayvon's 16-year-old girlfriend. An attorney for Trayvon's family said the girl was on the phone with him, heard someone ask the teen, 'What are you doing around here?' then heard what sounded like a shove, and the phone line went dead. [The police arrived about one minute later; Martin was already dead.] "Prosecutors would have to prove...that Zimmerman set into motion an unbroken chain of events that he should have known had a reasonable chance of leading to someone's death." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: katlaughing Date: 01 Apr 12 - 04:53 PM Meanwhile, here's another one where justice may prevail. Sounds as though it should never have happened: Elderly & Ill Ex-Marine Shot in Home and a petition which one may sign calling for justice: HERE. There are video and audio tapes of the whole thing according to what I've read. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Songwronger Date: 01 Apr 12 - 06:15 PM It's interesting to scan down and see how people refer to the two principals in this story. "Trayvon" shows closeness, "Zimmerman" shows distancing. It's also interesting that any of you would give a damn about this story. It's government hype. Obama's a disaster as president, so something has to be done to get voters' minds off the election. Play the race card. So shameless. Obama's a fascist. If he squirms his way into another term he'll "reluctantly" sign the Ryan legislation to do away with food stamps and medicaid. He'll raise the retirement age on Social Security and raise the age at which you can collect medicaire. MILLIONS of Americans will die because of this, and Obama'll shuffle around and say it was the Republicans, and he's just so damn hand-tied, but if he had a son he'd look like Trayvon. Man. Think of how many kids Obama's killed in Libya, and in Mexico with his gunrunning. How many people will die this summer when the Trayvon Brigades (feds) show up at the OWS events and start what the government-controlled media will refer to as "race riots"? Why the hell enable this crap? Nothing to see here. Move along. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,999 Date: 01 Apr 12 - 06:44 PM Songwronger, every now and then you should see your proctologist to have your vision checked. This has NOTHING at all to do with Obama (whom I do not like almost as much as you). It has to do with a guy who shot another guy, period. The circumstances are what's in question; them and the validity of Justice in the USA. This shit's been going on for hundreds of years, and to try moving the discussion in another direction is not at all cool. Blues: If I ever hit the lottery, I will buy a clock shop and pay you (lugubriously) to wind the clocks on a daily basis. I don't think you're as bad as you try to present yourself, so don't prove me wrong on that. Please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 12 - 10:27 PM Songwronger, you're on some strange drugs that give you a distorted view of the world. Do you write news stories for Faux news? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 12 - 10:32 PM There's a reason why he's the song"wronger", Sins... He is clueless... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: katlaughing Date: 02 Apr 12 - 12:05 AM Keep it up, folks, and watch another thread devolve. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Apr 12 - 01:09 AM Your tax dollars at work! As far as the Obama thing...or any of them for that matter, FORGET what they rhetorically say, try relating to what they DO!.... They are both extensions of the SAME people...and those people are not us! Until then, in regards to the Martin Zimmerman case, be PATIENT, and don't lose your heads, or common sense. Maybe even send up a prayer for the Martin family... Maybe even a prayer for PATIENCE... Maybe even just a prayer... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: beardedbruce Date: 02 Apr 12 - 09:20 AM It would be nice if those judging Zimmerman would at least look at the real evidence, and not the media doctored ( by BOTH sides) versions. "2. NBC told the Washington Post that it has launched an internal investigation of the "Today" show's editorial process after its morning show aired an edited conversation between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher recorded moments before the shooting. The investigation came after Fox News and others pointed out that the network spliced two parts of the call together, making it appear as if Zimmerman had said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In reality, Zimmerman was answering a dispatcher's question: Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy--is he black, white or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 12 - 09:29 AM No one here is judging Zimmerman, bb... What folks, including me, are saying there is sufficient "evidence" to arrest Zimmerman, charge him with murder, and let the jury or judge wade thru the incident... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Apr 12 - 10:09 AM Hey Bobster - that sounds kinda uppity to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Apr 12 - 10:37 AM Richard Bridge: "Hey Bobster - that sounds kinda uppity to me." Well, probably for the first time, I tend to agree with Richard Bridge. It also takes a 'judgement' to arrest someone....and the way people are treating this, is more like an arrest or trial don't even seem necessary, just take him out and lynch the guy. ....and Bruce is also correct. The info that we are getting is skewed, depending on the audience. I say, let it play out..sooner or later, the truth may come out, and justice may be served.....but remember, 'justice' may not find him 'guilty', as well. Leave that up to the courts....and if, according to Florida law, if the CAN charge him with charges that would stick, and hold up. Think ahead, now for a moment....Could you imagine if this went to court, without DUE process, and a COMPLETE investigation, but only an emotionally charged re-action, and he was acquitted??? The uproar would turn even Bobert's armpit hair grey!! What will probably come out of this may be a revision of the 'Stand Your Ground' law...and of course, and the usual emotionally charged debate about gun laws. ...and as someone mentioned earlier, '..a distraction, while the government is pulling a 'fast one' on us again! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 12 - 10:59 AM Of course you do, GfinS... Richard was making a joke but since you apparently have had your sense of humor disconnected for non payment it is understandable that you missed the humor in Richard's post... BTW, they fully investigated the Greensboro Massacre for years until people just gave up ever seeing justice prevail... Here's the ***real*** question here... If Martin had killed Zimmerman claiming self defense where would Martin be now??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Apr 12 - 12:11 PM Well, in that case, I guess I can't agree with Richard on this one?? ..and as so far as the Greensboro Massacre, do you want to charge Zimmerman with that, too? Obviously, Florida law is different than N.C. law...get over it, and wait, for the wheels of time to grind fine. Look, I tend to agree that there should have been an arrest of some sort...any sort...shit, make something up.....but according to Florida law, it should at least stick..don't you think???? (Well maybe not, but that's besides the point). The South has always been a bit weird about all that stuff....but, that being said, it's hard to tell if you are blowing Southern hot air...or just whistling Dixie! Let's just hope, that if and when charges are filed, that they can make them stick, under their statutes....fair enough? It would be a real mess, if they couldn't...wouldn't you say? Be patient. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 12 - 01:09 PM The "castle laws" allow you to defend yourself... Period... They do not allow you to confront and/or threaten people people and then kill them claiming self defense... Zimmerman initiated the contact... That is not even questioned... What part of the law doesn't the prosecutor understand??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Apr 12 - 01:11 PM "".....but remember, 'justice' may not find him 'guilty', as well. Leave that up to the courts...."" If the local redneck, cracker, law enforcement have their way the courts will never get the chance to judge. You really need to get your sight and hearing checked, Gone from Sanitorium. The whole of this thread is about GETTING him into court so that a jury CAN weigh the evidence. Bobert is right! If Trayvon Martin had killed George Zimmerman (happy now Songwronger?) he would already be awaiting trial, refused bail and held in custody, no matter what the evidence, or lack of it. Your attitude is to give the public time to get tired of the whole thing, so the local law can quietly push it under the carpet. That way nobody gets justice. US local sheriff departments already have a world wide reputation for corruption on a grand scale (deserved or not, who knows). Do you really think they are covering themselves with glory in Sanford? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Desert Dancer Date: 02 Apr 12 - 01:28 PM The New York Times has three items up at the moment that I think are good. - A very lengthy and fair rundown (7 screens worth) of the case to date: Race, Tragedy and Outrage Collide After a Shot in Florida; not every bit of data that is public at the moment, but a balanced presentation, and more in some areas than I had read before. - A critique of the polarization in the media/social media reaction to the case: The Media Equation A Shooting, and Instant Polarization - An thought provoking op-ed by Bill Keller against "hate crimes" laws: Tyler and Trayvon; comments worth reading, as well. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 02 Apr 12 - 01:42 PM Thanks, DD. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: meself Date: 02 Apr 12 - 02:29 PM "The South has always been a bit weird about all that stuff." Yeah, slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, segregation, no-fault murder - what a wacky place! Aw, but what can ya do! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Greg F. Date: 02 Apr 12 - 02:36 PM Yeah, what a bunch of fun folks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: beardedbruce Date: 02 Apr 12 - 04:38 PM I was going to comment on the inaccurate statistiscs of a previous post, but the Mod has removed it. Glad to know we can have faith that the Mod will make sure the discussion is only about the "proper" side of things. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Don Firth Date: 02 Apr 12 - 04:47 PM My following lengthy screed gets into the matter of gun laws in this country. I own several handguns and one rifle, and at one time, was a member of the National Rifle Association and spouted all the arguments about the sacredness of the Second Amendment. One of my guitar students back in the mid-1960s was a gun enthusiast. He introduced me to the fun of target shooting at a local firing range and shooting empty soft drink cans off of fence posts at a gravel pit outside of town. He also gave me some instruction in combat shooting. He always carried a gun (Colt .45 automatic—"Gold Cup" target model) in a belt holster, concealed by his suit jacket. He did have a concealed weapons permit. He talked me into getting one, which I did. I carried a small .380 cal. Walther PPK (looked like James Bond's gun, but used a larger cartridge). My friend was a bit contemptuous of my "little pop-gun." He talked a lot about "stopping power," and advised me to get something bigger. Actually, my "little pop gun" was standard police issue in some European countries, where .380 cal. is designated "9 millemeter short (corto)." And it didn't make my jacket bulge. He (I'll call him Larry), a mutual friend (let's call him Bill), and I went around armed to the teeth for a couple of years. In addition to some really good firearms training, I learned something else from Larry. Not a lesson he intended. I learned that some people who are especially fond of firearms can be just plain, bloody trigger-happy. Buried in the back of their head somewhere, they want to shoot somebody! Larry came damned close on a couple of occasions. One evening Bill drove to Larry's apartment and found that he was out. Knowing that he would be back shortly, he sat in his parked car and waited 'til Larry pulled in and parked. Bill got out of his car and walked up to Larry's. Larry, seeing in the rear view mirror someone approaching his car from behind, pulled his Colt .45, opened the door suddenly, spun off the car seat and stood in a crouch with a two-hand hold, with the Colt aimed at the middle of Bill's chest before he suddenly realized who it was! He was within a split second of pulling the trigger. Larry didn't tell me this. His girl friend, who was in the car with him did. Scared the hell out of her. Scared the hell out of Bill, too. And, for that matter, Larry damn near threw up, realizing how close he'd come to killing one of his best friends! Marcy broke up with him shortly thereafter, and I think this sort of thing had something to do with it. Carrying a .38 cal. Smith & Wesson snub-nosed "Ladies' Special" in her pocket book wasn't quite her style. But he didn't learn! A few months later, he observed a minor auto accident that resulted in a big argument between the two drivers, one of which was clearly at fault (the other car was parked!). The driver at fault got back into his car and intended to drive off just as the police arrived. Larry had seen the whole thing, and was watching as things developed. But as the guy prepared to drive off, Larry pulled his gun and stepped in front of the car, again in a crouch, the Colt in a two-hand hold, aimed at the driver through the windshield. The driver, wide-eyed with fear, hit the brakes. He and Larry were arrested and taken in. The offending driver was charged with hit-and-run, or at least hit and attempted run. Larry was charged with a firearms offense. His beloved Colt Gold Cup was confiscated and he spent a night in the slammer. In the subsequent court hearing, his concealed weapons permit was rescinded and I believe he also had to pay a stiff fine. He also receive a severe dressing down from the judge, who pointed out to him that, although he had aided the police in stopping a law-breaker from escaping, a dented fender did not warrant the use of lethal force, and if he had actually shot someone, he would have been charged with murder. Somewhere in the back of Larry's mind—he wanted to shoot someone! Thinking about the implications of all this, I didn't renew my concealed weapons permit when it came due and my guns are safely locked up, and I did not renew my NRA membership. And I don't go out deliberately looking for trouble. Don Firth P. S. The Second Amendment reads, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." In NO WAY did my friend Larry—or George Zimmerman—constitute a "well regulated militia." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Greg F. Date: 02 Apr 12 - 05:53 PM Poor, poor, pitiful me These dang Mods won't let me be Lord have mercy on me Woe, woe is me! --This ditty applies to several posters on the thread. No one should take it personally. Mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Apr 12 - 06:46 PM Those 7 pages to me paint a picture of a control-freak, a wannabee-hero, and a vigilante. Zimmerman. Maybe that's why some people like him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 12 - 07:27 PM The big winner here is the NRA... Gun sales going thru the roof... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Apr 12 - 07:36 PM ..yeah, the 'liberals' are going to want them, just in case the 'conservatives' sweep the elections, eh? GfS P.S. BTW, Zimmerman is a registered Democrat...look it up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 12 - 07:50 PM Ain't hte liberals buying 'um... Every time anything bad happens that gets media attention - such as the 7 people killed in a private college today - the knuckle draggers buy into the NRA emails and mail outs about how "Obama wants to take away your guns" and sales go up in redneck America... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Janie Date: 02 Apr 12 - 09:47 PM Thanks so much Becky - again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:14 AM S-U-U-U-R-E there Bobert!..anything you say! The way you dodge questions, duck and weave, and spin....you appear to be some 'political activist operative' to keep those folkies from gettin' hip to the game, and to insure that they stay 'in line' and work divisions and see that they are pushed, and exploited.....just an observation. One would think that if you were REALLY as quasi patriotic as you come off, that you'd be more concerned with an adherence to the Constitution, rather than working the biases..wouldn't you? This whole charade of being so 'Democratic' has defied gravity, and common sense, when you've IGNORED every truthful FACT presented...the saddest part, is you've got either a lot of believers on here, or just very indoctrinated dupes. What is really interesting, is for a social worker handing out entitlements, and promoting how great that is, why were you so hesitant and resentful, about helping your own relatives...in P-Vines house!! Blowing hot air?...or just whistlin' Dixie?? Love ya' anyway....maybe I'll really piss you off, by sending up a prayer for ya'! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Apr 12 - 04:20 AM What's the matter, Fugitive from Sanity? Have you not worked out that a constitution is there to serve the society to which it applies, not the other way round? Or has it become a matter or religious revelation for you, a tablet of stone handed down by a supernatural power or the word of the prophet? Am I just grumpy today or do there seem to be even more morons here than usual? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Apr 12 - 05:22 AM Why thank you, Sam.....all that being said, I'm NOT a political type person...just a musician...and often in music, you can see a 'change' coming, and certain times, when the harmony is off, somebody is fucking up!..Then of course, there are those in the audience who try to sing along...and don't really understand the gist of the tune. Same way living in the times we're living....when somebody is out of tune, it becomes awful strange when you motion to him that he's out of tune...but he doesn't seem to care...he just keeps on playing. Then the music doesn't sound right. Seems pretty clear to me. ..and music, as said before on here, by me, and a couple of others, music is a unifying thing..politics are a divisive thing, and a vehicle for limitations. This is NOT rocket science...and to make things even worse, some on here, as on stage, sometimes the sheet music is all off! What???..they think we don't know that, when the tune is all scattered? just for what it's worth. Hey, regards! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Bobert Date: 03 Apr 12 - 08:34 AM Okay, I'll bite... Tell us, insane one, what makes "stand your ground", as it is being used in this case, constitutional??? If you ***initiate*** contact and conflict with a perfect stranger and then kill him because you feel threatened that's murder... Tell us where in the constitution the Founding Fathers say it ain't... But you won't answer this question because you don't have a clue about what you are saying here... All we get from you is vintage GfinS smoke and mirrors... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Killed For Being Black ? # 3 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Apr 12 - 10:52 AM ....all that being said, I'm NOT a political type person...just a musician...and often in music, you can see a 'change' coming, and certain times, when the harmony is off, somebody is fucking up!..Then of course, there are those in the audience who try to sing along...and don't really understand the gist of the tune. Same way living in the times we're living....when somebody is out of tune, it becomes awful strange when you motion to him that he's out of tune...but he doesn't seem to care...he just keeps on playing. Then the music doesn't sound right. Seems pretty clear to me. Guest from Sanity, I think you should spend all of your time on your music. You're wasting your time here on these threads. Choosing to take the position of bottom feeder and stirring up rational discussions with irrational remarks just to see people fall over themselves as they argue topics you introduce into the discussion is unbecoming someone who wants to be taken seriously as a musician. In these threads, you're the party who is "out of tune." While your music is lovely, you have a tin ear for the social issues and civil discourse. Later today you will be able to listen to the podcast of today's Diane Rehm show. The first hour discussed the Stand Your Ground legislation in Florida and around the country. Stand Your Ground and Concealed Weapons Laws. SRS |