BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?

Subject: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 01:43 PM

Well not really a water feature, but a way of catching water during our restrictions. When there is rain, water flows down the side of the house and drips off the window sill along the stones of the patio, to disappear between the flagstones and the house.

As a temporary measure, I would like to put some sort of runnel along the line where it falls and channel it into a container for keeping for watering. (The long term process is lifting the stones and re-laying them with a fall towards the buried water tank which is not yet in place.)

I've looked at guttering, but it doesn't look very wide. I was hoping for something about a foot wide, to make sure that the splashing and falling off vertical because of wind doesn't let it flow away uselessly. Is there anything that would do the job, that would rest on some sort of support so that water would flow into, say, a bucket, at one end?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:00 PM

Vinyl flooring?

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:02 PM

Hard to offer ideas without a pic.

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:32 PM

What about a plastic 'trough' under the window (like the ones used to grow bedding plants in) which would catch the drips. You can get quite large and deep ones. I must add, your house will have damp patches inside if water is actually running down the wall. Is there something wrong with the guttering just above the window?

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 04:16 PM

Structure of the house - flat roof drains to a central gutter which in turn drains to a down pipe on the end houses, and so to a soakaway. Teh vertical surfaces are covered with tiles which shed any water falling on them, apart from the bricks of the first floor - no damp coming in, so there must be some sort of internal barrier. It isn't a lot of water, except in downpours, which, since we are in drought, are rare at the moment. But I'd like to stop it watering the foundations.

vinyl flooring would need to be held in shape. I do have some troughs, so could use them. I was hoping there was some sort of wide guttering somewhere that would sluice it all to one spot without constant attention.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: peregrina
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 04:57 PM

What about anfullfledged rain barrel? They catch a lot of water

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 04:39 AM

Divert the down pipe on the flat roof via a water butt to recycle this water.

I don't know what its called but there is a square plastic channelling covered by wire mesh type stuff which is installed next to house wall to prevent water getting into founds. Bit difficult to channel to anything other than underground tank because of levels, though.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:08 AM

I do not own the down pipes which are on the end properties of a row of terraced houses. (I have mooted large butts to the residents association committee, but this would take ages to get done.)

Square channelling sounds good - and eventually there will be an underground tank, when I have dug deep enough to sink the old cold water tank. Though I have doubts about this, having hit a layer of closely knit irregularly shaped flints about a third of the way down, which does not respond well to being mattocked. Prising with a crowbar might be the way through.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM

Hint about "flint" or any rocks needing extracation... water is nature's grease.

A pry bar (long) and a good size piece of a log split in the middle works for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:31 PM

At the risk of entering Hole in My Bucket territory, I can't use water, we've a drought and a hose ban.

After interesting discussion at the local builders' merchants, involving prices of £60, I've bought a 2m length of 4 inch guttering at a DIY superstore to try with (£4.50). I also thought about a width of corrugated plastic, but that was twice as much.

Also two plastic water containers for camping, to collect water from the hot tap before it gets hot in the bathroom and the kitchen.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:47 PM

It sounds as if you've found a good solution for your location.

I will put in another good word for rain barrels all the same. It will probably take less time to install one than to convince others to agree to the project.

Below i've cut and pasted data from an info site about how much you can collect after even a short rain.
Really, any one facing a hosepipe ban can probably get a very decent replacement from a rain barrel, or a few. (Grey water is obviously another solution, but unless you have a toxic roof, rain water is cleaner and safer.)
Rain barrels need to be covered for safety and to prevent bugs. If you put in the sort of silver disc used in horse water tanks, the water will not go sour. Several barrels can be connected to each other, and to automatic watering systems and even hoses, though there is usually not much water pressure for a spray, just drip irrigation.

the info from the info site:
Just a half inch of rain falling on a 1,000-square-foot roof yields 300 gallons of water, and that's only during one rainfall. Lets' say annual rainfall in your area is 16 to 20 inches. That's 9,600 to 12,000 gallons of water in a year - way more than you probably need. However, you don't have to catch every drop of rain to reap the benefits.
Here are a couple of additional ways to look at it:
A typical half-inch rainfall will easily fill a 55-gallon barrel.

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:48 PM

A hose ban... how big is the hole you're digging?

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 10 Apr 12 - 02:08 PM

I repeat that I do not own the downpipe, and add that there are covenants on the area which would prevent doing anything without consent of various bodies. That water does go to recharge the chalk aquifer. Some people do have personal downpipes on other types of homes and have fitted butts, but I can't.

These are the restrictions on hose use:

Thames Water Utilities Limited gives notice to all of its customers, that the potable* water it supplies throughout its entire area must not be used for the following purposes:

    watering a 'garden' using a hosepipe;
    cleaning a private motor-vehicle using a hosepipe;
    watering plants on domestic or other non-commercial premises using a hosepipe;
    cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe;
    filling or maintaining a domestic swimming or paddling pool;
    drawing water, using a hosepipe, for domestic recreational use;
    filling or maintaining a domestic pond using a hosepipe;
    filling or maintaining an ornamental fountain;
    cleaning walls, or windows, of domestic premises using a hosepipe;
    cleaning paths or patios using a hosepipe;
    cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.

Definition of a garden

A "garden" includes all of the following: a park; gardens open to the public; a lawn; a grass verge; an area of grass used for sport or recreation; an allotment garden, as defined in section 22 of the Allotments Act 1922; any area of an allotment used for non-commercial purposes; and any other green space.

Exemptions

i. using a hosepipe in a garden or for cleaning walls or windows of domestic premises, paths or patios, a private leisure boat or an artificial outdoor surface, where such use is necessary for health and safety reasons.
ii. watering a garden attached to a domestic dwelling or watering plants on domestic premises using a hosepipe, by people with severe mobility problems who hold a current Blue Badge as issued by their local authority.
iii. using a hosepipe to clean a private motor vehicle, or walls and windows of domestic premises, where this is done as a service to customers in the course of a business.
iv. using a hosepipe to water an area of grass or artificial outdoor surfaces used for sport or recreation, where this is required in connection with a national or international sports event.
v. drip or trickle irrigation watering systems, fitted with a pressure reducing valve and a timer, that are not handheld, that place water drip by drip directly onto the soil surface or beneath the soil surface, without any surface run off or dispersion of water through the air using a jet or mist.

Now while it doesn't specifically ban using a jet of water to loosen flints in order to sink a tank to collect any non-potable water that may arrive, I reckon that it would come under watering a 'garden', or recreational use, unless I employed someone whose business it was to use water to excavate tank holes.

What gets me is that people are not allowed to use hoses (except irrigation drip hoses) to water vegetables either in gardens or allotments.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 12:44 AM

If you ask the hardware supplier, they will direct you to a firm that forms Flashing(s,) which are folded metal sheet in any configuration.

You could also investigate the use of 'grey' water, from the sink and from the rinse cycle of the washing machine. Real soap is just made from ash and animal fat, after all.
We used grey water on the garden when we had a similar situation some years ago. You do have to store it in a lidded container, though, as it stinks as the bacteria break down the skin cells from the washing. We were using ALL the water, diluted with the stuff from the shower warm-up. A plastic dustbin was our chosen option.

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 02:04 AM

The grey water problem is that the water in the house is all at the front (except the washing machine, to which I will return), and the bathroom is two floors up, the kitchen one floor. There's a lot of carrying involved as I can't get it down to the garden by hose - did you use grey water for food plants? The washing machine is in a ground floor utility room at the back, and I do think I can possibly get the water out by an alternative to the current system. There's a hole for a tumble drier vent in the door frame, unfortunately low down (though I want to keep the garden mice out). It is further from the machine than the length of the hose, though.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Darowyn
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 03:46 AM

Find someone who has made a pond, and talk them into letting you have a long strip of offcut pond liner. You can make it into a channel either by digging a groove in the ground, or with a wooden trough.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 11 Apr 12 - 12:36 PM

Google maps would be my friend there, I suppose.

Today we had a heavy shower. After it, I went out and fixed up a system such as the Admirable Crichton would have done with a split bamboo stem, and also fixed the leaky fixing in the old cold water tank for storing any water collected in. When I had done, heavy drops fell from the lowering clouds, and I came in. But that was all. Clouds have passed over all afternoon, but nothing to test the guttering. Shucks.

The amount of water I have collected from the bathroom basin tap before it got hot is astonishing. About three sessions would fill the water container.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 04:45 AM

It must have rained a bit last night. Though the buckets under one end of the house do not have much water in them, the container at the end of the gutter has about a cm.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:01 PM

Penny, we didn't use grey water for plants we eat, only for plants we eat fruit from. The worry had crossed our minds.

We didn't plant any vegetables that year, as we knew the problem was coming. The local water-board had emptied its main dam for work, and then there was an unusually dry Spring.
We currently have two 44gal/200lt drums under different downpipes, and I have scored a 600lt drum to add to them, whenever. I also have two more 200lt drums, which under the long-term plan I intend to build a frame up to carry them higher that the toilet and use them for flushing water. A Round Tuit job. The 200lt drums are emptied plastic chemical drums. I DO know what they contained, I worked with them.

I should add that water is not a problem in Auckland, we are on the mains, but we live on an isthmus of ex-volcanos, and some parts of NZ are getting earthquakes for the first time in 200yrs.

Subject: RE: BS: Water feature runnel - quick make?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:40 PM

A few fence posts and a roll of polythene. Lay the fence posts in two parallel lines,In the direction you want to go. Then drape the polythene over them, tucking the sides underneath on both sides. The water can then be channeled to wherever you want.
If there's not a natural fall in the direction you need, a soft brush can be employed to encourage it to head there.