Thought for the day - October 16th

Subject: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 12:28 AM

Anyone whose goal is "something higher" must expect some day to suffer vertigo. What is vertigo? Fear of falling? Then why do we feel it even when the observation tower comes equipped with a sturdy handrail? No, vertigo is something other than the fear of falling. It is the voice of the emptiness below us which tempts and lures us, it is the desire to fall, against which, terrified, we defend ourselves.

Milan Kundera:The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Cara
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 01:06 AM

That is ne of my all-time favorite passages. As one who suffers terribly from vertigo and lives, alas, in a city replete ith the steepest, longest escalators anywhere (which one must use in order to get on to public transportation) I ponder this idea and its ramifications often as I cling to the handrail and take deep breaths. It's a stupid and annoying fear, but there you have it.

I really think Milan hit on something here. It bears remembering regardin all "irrational fears"; is there generally an element of fascination with e feared object at play? Or a "thrill of terror" of sorts when forced to deal with it? i don't know; just posing thequestion.

Great choice Kat!!

Musingly, Cara safe for now on terra firma)

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: wildlone
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 03:57 AM

I suffer my self but try to control it.
The worst is those high bridges with loose boards so you can see the water beneath you.
Yet when i went up in a light plane back along even at 6000 feet it was great,silly really .wl.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 07:36 AM

I once heard it said FEAR stood for False Evidence Appearing Real. I also have vertigo and have gradually been able to lessen it's intensity by pursuing what terriorizes me such as hiking on mountain ridges. If I'm climbing a steep ladder, I have learned to only focus my attention on the next rail. I also use this approach when life frightens me; I take one baby step at a time and try not to look at the big picture. Excellent quote Mama KatSageWaker

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 08:40 AM

I don't remember the source, but there is an old quote, "Do the thing you fear, and the death of fear is certain." This seems a little ridiculous, not to mention life threatening, if your fear is kissing a Copperhead!

Say Kat, can I get a hit off of whatever it is you and Milan are smoking?**BSEG**

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 10:10 AM

Thanks, Cara, WL, and great acronym 'Phyte!

'Spaw, you know the funny thing is, all those times in high school and beyond when I was accused of smoking weed, I never did; still have never touched the stuff.....can't stand the smell for starters! And, high enough, naturally without it!:-) Love your quote, dearie. If ya haven't read the book or seen the movie, you owe it to yourself to do so. I just saw the movie a couple of months ago, then out of the blue my girlfriend in Chicago sent me the book. I love the style it is written in, many asides by the author, which I think you would like too, 'Spaw.

Sure glad I grew up in the Rockies...no problem with vertigo, we all climbed ridges, mts. etc. like we were mountain goats.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 10:30 AM

Interesting carry on, kat, from my earlier remarks on "The Sixth Sense" (if that is what it is, incorrigible narcissist that I am), but like most Kundera it is a gesture in the right direction without being really penetrating. If people who strive for higher things feel vertigo, it does not necessarily mean that they are being sucked down by the desire for emptiness, annihilation (Schopenhauer and most Eastern Europeans are big on this -- as if people in these situations have a death wish). It is often that one is trying to live in a place without handholds. It is like swaying upright on a high mountain. Especially if you are destroying previous categories and creating your own (as an artist does) there is this sense that you are being held up by nothing, or a terrible fear that if you destroy this last handhold, there will be nothing. I suffer from vertigo, and used to think that it was about trying to keep some dark part of oneself from committing suicide by hurling oneself over the edge. I always believed it was about the horrifying replay of having one's body smashed at the bottom of wherever. But having once sat on the edge of a mountain cliff in Italy determined to look at this fear close up (it didn't cure me, but it was an interesting half hour), now I think it is not about the fear of hitting the bottom, or the fear of falling; it is about not being able to hold on to anything as one falls. That there is no handhold, really; or if there is one, it is what you have to find after you go through the realm of "no handhold" (all very Zen). This is why the vertigo of everyday life is the same: it isn't a death wish at all -- if anything, it is a fear of seeing real life as it is. Maybe that is just my version of vertigo.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 11:09 AM

Little Neo, if I'd only known. I could have asked you to help with the eaves trough. I'm not good at the tops of ladders. Used to think I just had bad balance and then I read about various body alignments. Apparently because of a jawbone mis-alignment I have trouble with heights. It may also be the reason that I still can't (and won't) dance!

Rick

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 11:17 AM

Quick note, Rick. You don't have to dance on the roof, you know (especially given your neighbours). Try the floor sometime.
I am sure the reason you don't dance is that the moment the band strikes up you leap off the dance floor and hurl yourself at the guy playing an F diminished where he should be playing an F. Makes it hard to keep your two step in line.
yours, Peter T.
(contemplating suicide in an office on a beautiful Saturday morning -- redundant!!) (I am out of here!!!)

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 11:19 AM

...fascinating observation, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 12:11 PM

Which one Neil? Rick's fetish to dance on roofs or Peter's incredible understanding of vertigo. You are so right Peter, it is the fear of seeing real life as it is. Little Neo

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 12:23 PM

I really wasn't wanting to do this, but its one of those things you never forget. And fortunately the outcome was eventually positive, so I feel better about relating the story.

About 10 years ago when I was on the road for Airtex, I was standing on an observation platform at Hopkins Airport in Cleveland, just killing time and waiting for departure. I didn't really notice him at first, and when I did I suppose I looked a bit startled by his appearance so I felt like I had to make some sort of conversation attempt. I had been joined by a short, oddly attired, little guy who was also just staring out into the middle distance (which is pretty common in Cleveland). I said something about the Spring day, like how pretty it was even for Cleveland, or something like that. I didn't get a response so I thought I'd asked, "Going home?" He stepped up suddenly onto the guardrail, glanced at me and said, "Yeah, I am." And with that brief remark leapt out. I was totally dumfounded and completely appalled as he flailed through the air. Not a sight you can ever forget. Then he hit the ground some 40 feet below like, pardon the expression, a sack of wet cement. After a few surgeries and extensive hospitalization, he is now just fine. Evidently he had forgotten to factor in the added weight of the little Telecaster and the Waylon Heron's flight home was delayed for several months while he recuperated.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 05:30 PM

I have often experienced the thrill of height as a commingled rush of fear and exhiliration that for some odd reason seems to center in my genital area. Was that what Mallory meant when, asked why he climbed, he replied "because it's there"? I experienced it powerfully when standing at the top of both the Sears Tower and the Empire State Building. As you near the edge and look down, the impression that results from the long tapering lines and foreshortening is one of the building sinking in and away from you. I often dream of being suspended on a narrow platform at a staggering distance up from the street, and experience a feeling of pure vertigo terror that is devoid of the beauty I feel when encountering similar situations in real life.

The great attraction of the climb is in the reduction of all immediate needs to that of finding secure foot and hand-hold, achieving an immersion in the environment that by necessity excludes all other worries and desires. It is the distillation of all hope and comprehension into one transcendent moment of life or death, when you alone have the power through strength and skill to hold the Reaper at bay.That is what drove Mallory to make his one-way up Everest, and Hillary his round trip. It is what cost Lowe his life in the slide on Kanchenchunga. The solace is that those who were lost died immersed in that epiphany that is essential life/death, not while distracted by traffic or using their cell-phones.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 06:11 PM

Wildlone, I felt just like you about gaps in bridge timbers, but height isn't the problem. I've had it on a bridge only two feet off the water. And seaside piers. And platforms made of expanded metal. There's one in Bristol out from an old cave below the camera obscura. Deadly. But the top of the Eiffel Tower was fine. And the plane to Jersey. Bored everyone to tears with my analysis of the feild patterns of Sussex, and where my family lived!

Penny

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Cara
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 07:18 PM

The "gap thing is a big one for me too. I've walked an extra thousand miles to avoid walking on the sidewalk grates here in DC> My mother tells me that as a toddler, I refused to walk across the bridge between our house and the park we went to daily. Even when someone carried me, I would scream in terror. I've had nightmares my whole life where I accidentally walk off of a brightly lit pier and fall into deep water. I love swimming, and plane rides and views from the windows of tall building don't scare me in th least. It is definitely something about thefear of involuntarily (?) throwing myself off the edge. Maybe clumsiness is what I truly fear! Whatever it is, it sucks and i's getting worse as I ger older. I wonder why.

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 07:44 PM

Little Neo....I was referring to the latter, although the former has its merit too. Anything Peter T cares to submit is worth taking to time to linger over...

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 07:58 PM

It's all baggage left over from past lives, doncha know? Do some regression, live through the act of terror from whatever past there was and maybe you will not suffer anymore this time. At least that is what some of us believe. I have a friend who is a graduate of Smith College. She had always worn glasses this lifetime. She went through a few sessions of past life regression, living through a memory as a very young rebel soldier in the War Between the States. As that young man, she had to go in a burning house, up some stairs to rescue someone. He/she lost his eyesight as a result. To this day, after having gone through that therapy, she has never had to wear glasses.

Just another Thought for the day.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 08:09 PM

The Royal Gorge Bridge near Canon City, Colorado offers the ultimate in ancient two by four construction with one inch gaps in-between. It is nearly a two thousand foot drop to the Arkansas River, clearly visible through the gaps. The river is about 120 feet in width at the bottom of the Royal Gorge, but looks about 1/8" wide from the bridge. The boards are not bolted or nailed to the structure, fitting in a loose clamp assembly at either end. These boards move under foot as you cross. Cars are allowed to cross also, and the timbers literally rattle under them. Looking over the edge is breathtaking- looking through the gaps is somewhat worse. At the middle of the bridge is a sign that reads NO FISHING .

I highly recommend it.

LEJ

Subject: RE: Thought for the day - October 16th
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Oct 99 - 08:35 PM

Oooo, LeeJ, I remember going on that as a really young girl. Another good one is riding the narrow gauge train over Red Mtn. Pass from Ouray to Silverton. Breathtaking. The cars only have canvas rollups on the windows, so you can literally hang your head out over an immeasurable drop from the top of the Rockies waaaayyy doooowwwnn into a deeply cut gorge.

Also, the curving steps up into the Capitol Dome in Denver were made out of angle iron with open risers. My sister ran up those with a broken arm! Open risers always used to scare me.