BS: Warning for the UK

Subject: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:00 PM

Tomorrow, Jacqui and I will be landing in England for three weeks. Among other things, we will be cruising the river Ely in Cambridge, then up to Newark and to Hadrians Wall.
In between visits with friends and family I get to drive a tank!

I expect you all know that the tank was invented in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Jeri
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:21 PM

Just remember to drive it on the left side of the road.
Bon voyage, Morses!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Beer
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:35 PM

Maybe he will drive it wherever he wants. Tanks can do that.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Beer
Date: 15 May 12 - 10:37 PM

They have a mind of their own. No roads are required.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 May 12 - 12:06 AM

Kendal in a tank -- the word "retread" seems appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 May 12 - 12:09 AM

Will Jacqui be navigating this tank while Kendall drives?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 May 12 - 01:31 AM

I live between Cambridge and Ely, Cambridgeshire. The river at Ely is actually called the Great Ouse. Its tributary in nearby Cambridge is called the Cam in the stretch behind the colleges, and the Granta in the stretch from there to the village of Grantchester (Why? well why not?). There is no river actually called the Ely.

Have a great trip.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 May 12 - 01:43 AM

Yes, they did invent the tank. Dumb fux didn't put a reverse on it. That oversight has since been corrected. Have a great time.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Bert
Date: 16 May 12 - 02:31 AM

...we will be cruising the river Ely in Cambridge,... Ah yes, watching the stunts of the c**ts in the punts and the tricks of the......

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 12 - 02:41 AM

British tanks never need to reverse!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 12 - 03:54 AM

not if you've got a triumph herald sort of tank, that does a neat u-turn...

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 12 - 04:09 AM

On the side of the market square in Newark is a sausage shop. Lincolnshire is famous for its sausages. There is a theatre in Newark where a hammy old Shakespearian actor called sir Donal Wolfit (said to be the model for the Albert Finney role in The Dresser film)started his career. they do some commercial shows at the theatre. There are the remains of a beautiful civil war castle in Newark by the river side.
By the side of the bridge - there is a decent Italian restaurant. there is a French restaurant where they do jazz - called the BLUE SOMETHING. The visitors centre by the bridge will tell you whats on.

In nearbby Bingham - there is a folk music club in the cricket club on alternative Friday nights, if you want a sing. Oscar Wilde visited the vicarage in Bingham when he was a student9( acollege friend of his was the vicar's son), fell in love with the vicars daughter, and was shown the door by the vicar.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 12 - 05:24 AM

"In nearbby Bingham - there is a folk music club in the cricket club on alternative Friday nights, if you want a sing."

It's actually every Friday night, Al.
Mostly singers' nights, but sometimes a guest - Here's the programme for Bingham FC until 24/8/12

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 12 - 06:01 AM

Also rather beautiful (if theres anything on) is the little theatre in Averham just outside of Newark. You're not more than twenty miles from Grantham birthplace of Margaret Thatcher. And Isaac Newton. Theres agreat arts centre in Grantham - always interesting stuff going on.

There two ancestral p;iles to visit quite near there - belvoir Castle - ancestral home of the Duke of Rutland. and Belton House - I think was Lord Burligh who lived there. belvoir is the more intersting of the two.

Nottingham isn't too far distant and - its a big city with many attractions - theatres, a castle, a lace museum, lots of folk clubs.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 May 12 - 06:30 AM

Must get that wall repaired ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: My guru always said
Date: 16 May 12 - 07:27 AM

Maybe we'll get to see the Morses this trip, wouldn't want to miss out on a feel of that leather coat.......

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 12 - 07:55 AM

Jacqui, Carol's friend John Pringle commutes in his boat between Hertford and Ely (well Charteris) quite often.
Is he part of the plan?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: maeve
Date: 16 May 12 - 08:02 AM

Have a wonderful trip, Kendall and Jacqui.


OXO Maeve & TL

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 16 May 12 - 08:31 AM

When should we get out the blue paint and be prepared to defend Hadrian's Wall?

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 16 May 12 - 12:05 PM

No such river? According to Yahoo there is.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 16 May 12 - 12:15 PM

Yes but its in Cardiff not Cambridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 May 12 - 12:30 PM

Tanks very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Gurney
Date: 16 May 12 - 03:04 PM

Wolfhound, are you suggesting that the Britons should try to keep the Scots out of England? Both sides used woad in the ancient past! Or that the Scots should try to keep Romans out of the north, them having climbed over the wall that they built? I'm confused.
A not unfamiliar state.

999, some tanks (not British, but Swedish or Swiss or something) have several reverse gears but only one forward gear!
Not really. The turret trains only backwards, as they have a policy of national non-aggression, and expect that in the event of being invaded they will fight a skirmishing, retreating type of warfare.

Enjoy the trip, Kendall. Don't drive when tired. In NZ we lose a couple of tourists every year who do, and react wrongly to unexpected situations, or perhaps drive in unfamiliar types of vehicles like the sad case of the young Americans who died a few days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: gnu
Date: 16 May 12 - 03:07 PM

Lock and load! Have a great and safe trip youse guys.

I originally posted... Have a great and sate trip youse guys.

That too!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: fat B****rd
Date: 16 May 12 - 03:20 PM

I hope you enjoy your tour.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Bert
Date: 16 May 12 - 04:19 PM

The driving is not so bad. Crossing the road is deadly however 'cos you always look the wrong way first, then you step out into the road before looking the other way.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,Rattler
Date: 16 May 12 - 06:32 PM

So many options for the weary northbound traveller - On Thursday there's a musician's session at the Snooty Fox pub, Old Ollerton, in Sherwood Forest, or a singer's night at the Dumble's Inn in Southwell near Newark too.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 May 12 - 07:10 PM

My previous post disappeared !! On Thursday , all being well , they will be at Maidenhead to hear Geoff Higginbottom . !

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: gnu
Date: 16 May 12 - 07:12 PM

I expect updates on this thread from all the contacts and from the newlyweds as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 May 12 - 12:39 AM

The Brits certainly DID NOT invent the tank.

Enter your proof:



I submit Leonardo de Vinci ... fabulous museum in Amboise France ... sponsored by IBM.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/File:DaVinciTankAtAmboise.jpeg

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 17 May 12 - 02:13 AM

Like many others my kids draw flying saucers and inter-galactic space rockets but it doesn't mean they've actually invented them :-) Though to be fair in the early design of tanks from caterpiller tractors onwards etc I believe there was American and French input as well as British - and possibly others too. The British were seemingly the first to put it into significant action.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 May 12 - 03:13 AM

An Eyetie designed the first tank....!

It took perfidious Albion to actually make one and use it on other human beings.

I always liked the Peter Ustinov story about when he was interviewed for his war service he asked if he could drive a tank. Because, he said, the idea of going into battle sitting down rather than marching appealed to him.

Theres a tank museum - just up the road from us. My father, who had been a tank driver in WW2, could not face the idea of visiting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 17 May 12 - 10:06 AM

Hi Al

My old man was a tank driver in WW2 also.

He always said that you could always tell the difference between a Brit tank and an Italian one.

The English tank had one forward gear and the Italian tank had one forward gear and 5 reverse gears.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 12 - 10:53 AM

Well, as for the Italian tanks, they were basically a few years behind in their design technology as compared to the UK, France, Russia, and Germany. Their tanks were good, maneuverable vehicles...but they were not heavily enough armoured to have much change of survival in combat against the British and American-made tanks they encountered in the western desert. As a result, they got slaughtered...not because they were running away, I might add...but you DO tend to run away after all your tanks and other equipment are smashed up and destroyed, don't you? Or else you just die.

The Italians have long been slandered for supposed cowardice during the war. They were not cowardly in the least, they simply didn't have mechanized equipment (and technology) capable of matching the Allied equipment they came up against...nor did they have an industrial output capable of matching Allied production.

And that's why they lost battles, not because of cowardice.

You can't win if your basic equipment and technology don't measure up to the opposition.

(In terms of the Italian Navy...they had some excellent modern ships, but they lacked shipborne radar, they had no aircraft carriers, and they lacked a naval air force. Those 3 factors rendered their battle fleet more or less blind and helpless in the Battle of the Mediterranean, and the British used the situation to great advantage.)

I don't think any WWII army could rightly be accused of cowardice in the field. Some of them could certainly be accused of having had poor leadership at times, however, and some of them did fight under great material or technological disadvantages. All three of those factors were true in the case of the Italian forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: mayomick
Date: 17 May 12 - 11:40 AM

Many Italian soldiers simply didn't want to fight for Mussolini and were more than willing to surrender to anybody . I spoke to an English veteran of the Italian war once who told me how fifty Italian soldiers came out of nowhere with their hands up and surrendered to him and his friend one afternoon. If anybody knew this fella they would have thought that Mrs Astor might have been on to something after all . Him and his pal found the surrender very inconvenient because they had been on their way to visit a house of ill-repute at the time.
The Cam River is the crooked river if it retains its name from the old Celtic . Does it become any less crooked when it becomes the Grantia?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Bill D
Date: 17 May 12 - 12:36 PM

The scene was in France, at a small movie theater that showed American movies with sub- titles for the locals. The movie was some WW II black & white B-movie....shells were falling, dust was billowing. In a ditch beside a road crouched two GIs, trying to keep their heads from being blown off as they wonder what to do.......they hear strange noises in the distance, and cautiously, one peeks up and peers down the road, straining to see what is happening.

Suddenly, his face lights up, and he turns to his comrade happily and stands up and points down the road and shouts, "Tanks!"

and on the screen the sub-title says.."Merci!"

*told to me by the lady who saw it...she says she was the ONLY one in the theater laughing out loud*

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 May 12 - 12:54 PM

Remember Dukakis.
Tanks with dignity please. Maine is watching.


BYW, the police are going on strike over there. Maybe you can take the tank into London and declare it a US Territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 17 May 12 - 08:10 PM

So I finally opened this thread to discover that you are already there! I hope you are enjoying yourselves. Tell us more!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 12 - 02:44 AM

I saw John at the Eastern last night.
He says his boat is moored just a few yards from the one you are using.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 18 May 12 - 07:38 AM

Bon voyage, you two!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 May 12 - 12:32 PM

They were at Maidenhead F C last night with Geoff Higginbottom as the Guest . Today they are driving up to Ely

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 12 - 05:35 PM

Italian heroes? Like the ones using mustard gas against spears?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Gurney
Date: 18 May 12 - 06:03 PM

Gargoyle, I have seen a 'tank' built to Len Vinci's drawings. In my personal opinion, no soldier would be so stupid as to go anywhere near an enemy in it, unless first treated to a brainectomy.

Even the term 'tank' is British, being a code-name that became the generic name for the machine, and the British tanks were the first such devices deployed in action, which is a matter of record.

So it depends on your interpretation of the term 'invented.' My own opinion is that ideas and drawings do not constitute inventions. You have to make them work.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 12 - 06:20 PM

Vast numbers of Russians surrendered to the Germans on various occasions too...when the battles went against them. Vast numbers of Germans surrendered to Allied forces when the battles went against them. There's a closing stage in a campaign or battle when there's not much point for the people on the losing end of it to fight any longer, and that's when a lot of them will surrender. (unless it's the Japanese!)

It's not an indication of cowardice when the soldiers on the losing side of a battle surrender, it's an indication of ordinary common sense! But when the Italians did it, it was usually strongly implied in Allied propaganda that they were a cowardly army.

Some people have depicted the French Army in 1940 as cowards too, due to Germany's quick victory in the Battle of France, when new German tactics secured an astonishingly quick and total victory.

The label of "coward" was an unfair one to apply to those men, but it's a label people will freely stick on other people if it suits their chauvinistic political bent in some way and makes them feel superior. Handy propaganda, that's all...it's rooted in a deep lack of respect for people from another community and a desire to imagine that your own community is innately superior to them in some fashion.

And that sounds a bit like the old Master Race philosophy to me. Hitler made good use of that kind of superiority-based thinking. All aggressive empires try to instill a culture of "we're better than they are" in their troops. And people fall for it.

Note: I'm not Italian or French. I'm from the Anglo culture. This isn't a case of me defending my own "tribe"...that being exactly what most people do most of the time. They toot their own tribal horn and they disparage most of the others. This enables political leaders to easily lead them off on crusades to destroy other people.

I'm not defending my own tribe or nation here. I'm defending the equal humanity of all the tribes and nations. Wars are won not by people who are "better than" the people they are fighting against, but by people whose forces are better positioned at the time, better armed, better led, and most of all....better supplied!

In the end, the Germans, Italians, and Japanese were beaten because they simply could not possibly match the Allies when it came to the production of war materials and the delivery of those materials to the battlefield. Superior Allied logistics and a larger Allied industrial base brought inevitable doom to the Axis.

My father fought on the Allied side, and he said the sheer amount of equipment and other supplies available on the Allied side, particularly for the Americans, made the defeat of the Germans a foregone conclusion...though by no means an easy one. He said he saw thousands of Allied aircraft overhead in '44 and '45...never saw a single German plane in the air while he fought all the way from Normandy to Prague. Saw a few German tanks (and feared them). Saw thousands of Allied tanks.

By '44 the Germans were running out of men, petrol, war equipment, and most other basic resources, and were hugely outnumbered in the air and on the ground and at sea. So were the Japanese. The Italians had had the weakest industrial base of all the major combatants, so they were the first ones to crack, and they were finished by '43.

You can't win a long drawn out war with an economy that is considerably weaker than that of your primary opponent(s).

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 May 12 - 06:53 PM

The French and Italian 'Coward' label was rather devalued by the action of so many French and Italians who 'took to the hills' to continue the fight !

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 28 May 12 - 04:12 PM

Tomorrow we are off to the south; hope to meet up with Morticia, Micca and Leadfingers. I must get a photo of Karl Marx's tomb for my right wing friends. Might even take a trip to France.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 29 May 12 - 01:08 PM

Well, we've put on our best weather to welcome you both- now don't be complaining about our lack of air conditioning! :)

Two bank holidays next week- one specially for the Queen's jubilee- so the weather's bound to break!

Enjoy.

Nx
(waving from work)

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 May 12 - 01:24 PM

Michael - Two quick questions:

How close will they get to gorgeous Ely Cathedral (truly well worth visiting)?

And is there honey still for tea?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 May 12 - 01:25 PM

.. or truly WAS well worth visiting...

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 May 12 - 05:22 AM

Bonnie ~~ Ely Cathedral is easily visited from Cambridge: only about 12 miles between the two cities. It is a very beautiful cathedral, with its unique 'Lantern-Tower and Octagon' feature. Look out for its appearance on a clear day, dominating the landscape all the way on the A10 road after the bend between Waterbeach and Stretham, when the Tower + the Lantern as it seems to sail over the flat fields well justify its nickname The Ship Of The Fens. It also has an interesting tombstone in the South Porch with an astonishing poem on it called The Spiritual Railway, well worth any folkie's time:

http://www.voicesnet.org/displayonepoem.aspx?poemid=168206

Make sure to find the right doorway into the small porch/courtyard where it is. Any of the vergers or guides would help. There is also an excellent Stained Glass Museum there.

Long time since I punted down the Granta from Cambridge to Grantchester ~~ but I am sure they will still be serving honey for tea at the Orchard! If too old or tired to punt, an easy drive.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 03:17 AM

That cathedral is a magnificent sight.I'm always amazed at the detail and the skills those workers had.
Read "The Pillars of the earth" by Ken Follet and you will be even more amazed.

We are in Stevenage, probably won't go to France. The energy tanks are just about empty.Might get to Herga

This is probably my last trip here, but sometimes I even surprise myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:11 AM

There is an open mike at The Hertford Club on Sundays, 6-9.
On warm evenings we have it out in the garden.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 04:24 AM

Hey Kendall.

The Chester Folk Festival is this weekend. Ildanach (the band I play in) are hosting a session on Sunday lunchtime. Probably a bit out of your way but if you're thinking of a run oop north it would be great to see you.

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:04 AM

I just found this thread.

We're spending a quiet day - yesterday was overwhelming. I drove from Bradford on Avon to Stevenage abnd we then headed into London - train, underground, bus and then walking to Marx's Tomb in Highgate Cemetary. That was on top of the trip the day before - Newark to Stratford on Avon to Broughton on the Water to Marlborough to Bradford on Avon. The poor old car must be cringing every time we get near it.

We were meaning to spent a few days with my son and partner in west London but she is recovering from five weeks of daily radiotherapy and not really up for company for so long, so plans were changed at the last minute, meaning no chance to get to Maidenhead last night. I will be trying to get back there in December!

Tomorrow we do go to West London and get ready to fly back to Maine on Tuesday. We lose the car Sunday so that reduces our mobility and I don't think there will be a Herga on Monday, as it is a Bank Holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 11:05 AM

We found a nice pub outside Stevenage; built in the 16th century, called George and Dragon. The Guinness was delicious and so was the chicken curry. I forgot that I don't care for curry.

And, NO musak!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 05:00 PM

Back on Tuesday... seems like such a short trip. Too bad you can't stay longer. Enjoy every minute... like I NEED to say that?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 02:45 AM

Three weeks without my bed, easy chair, remote and the antique Packard is enough. I feel like mowing the lawn.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 09:29 AM

They are threatening to 'Go for an Indian' tonight - That COULD be dodgy as in this part of W London they will be well ounumbered ! And Liable for Assault Charges too !! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 12:31 PM

What? who are "They"?

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 01:14 PM

indians

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:17 PM

"I forgot that I don't care for curry."

"They are threatening to 'Go for an Indian' tonight..."

Now, that just don't add up.

I ate that stuff once. Sorry, but I just can't handle it. Makes me queasy. Seriously. Ever since then, just the smell of it makes me queasy and flush.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:22 PM

I didn't care for Indian food until Jacqui's son and his mate took us out for it last year.
We just got back from there. I think I now know why England invaded India......the food.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 03:45 PM

We had a good meal in very good company - my granddaughter, it turns out, likes curry. We're back at my son's having a quiet evening. Tomorrow, maybe a boot sale, a visit from my daughter and, possible, a trip out in the afternoon, courtesy of Leadfingers.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 12 - 07:09 AM

The English weather is putting the kibosh on the festival, but we will hook up with Leadfingers anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Warning for the UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:59 AM

Left Kendall recovering from a House full of Family and had a drive down to Chippers . Singaround in the Black Horse was worth the trip . FILTHY weather driving back , then we had a Takeaway .
At least , I got my guitar bck from K !