BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day

Subject: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 May 12 - 01:22 PM

ThinkProgress.org's Memorial Day "News Flash":

According to Professor David Blight of Yale University, the first Memorial Day took place on May 1, 1865 in Charleston, SC, after a group of African-Americans, mostly former slaves, gave 257 Union soldiers a proper burial. The black community in Charleston then consecrated the new cemetary with "an unforgettable parade of 10,000 people," led by 3,000 black school children. It was initially called "Decoration Day."

The full story from David Blight's is here.

With thanks to those who served and those who sacrificed and (futile) hopes for a future Memorial Day remembering the end of any need for such service...

song 1

song 2

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: gnu
Date: 28 May 12 - 01:40 PM

Lest we forget.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 May 12 - 03:33 PM

As the Wikipedia page on Memorial Day says, there is absolutely no evidence that the Charleston event had any influence on the modern celebration.

There is, however, a lot of evidence that the US establishment didn't want anybody celebrating May Day as an international day of workers' solidarity. Hence the invention of "Labor Day" in September. Getting people to participate in a militarist-religious death-and-patriotism festival on a different day in May was another way of discouraging it.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 May 12 - 04:34 PM

Blight is well intentioned, and a recognized scholar, but here he's reaching a bit.

The origins of Decoration Day (later "Memorial Day") are well established.

See, among other sources, THIS

The address given by Frederick Douglass on Decoration Day, May 30(the correct day) 1878 is also instructive; this is an excerpt:

Good, wise, and generous men at the North, in power and out of power, for whose good intentions and patriotism we must all have the highest respect, doubt the wisdom of observing this memorial day, and would have us forget and forgive, strew flowers alike and lovingly, on rebel and on loyal graves. This sentiment is noble and generous, worthy of all honor as such; but it is only a sentiment after all, and must submit to its own rational limitations. There was a right side and a wrong side in the late war, which no sentiment ought to cause us to forget, and while to-day we should have malice toward none, and charity toward all, it is no part of our duty to confound right with wrong, or loyalty with treason. If the observance of this memorial day has any apology, office, or significance, it is derived from the moral character of the war, from the far-reaching, unchangeable, and eternal principles in dispute, and for which our sons and brothers encountered hardship, danger, and death.

The entire address is worth reading, available HERE among other places.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Arkie
Date: 28 May 12 - 05:14 PM

Alan and Karen Jabbour have recently published a book about Decoration Day and, if you know Alan, it was researched quite thoroughly. I have yet to read it, but from what I have read so far, there is some evidence that Decoration Day was observed in some communities, at least, prior to the Civil War.

Jabbour

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 May 12 - 05:15 PM

Well, Jack and Greg are probably correct that the national celebration arose later, but I'd say that the Charleston event qualifies as "a first" memorial day in the the continuum of the events arising from the Civil War. Plus, it's an interesting story I hadn't heard.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Janie
Date: 28 May 12 - 05:43 PM

While aware (and glad of it) of the origins of Memorial Day, for me it is a personal day of remembrance and I am content to let it be so.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 May 12 - 12:10 AM

I had never heard that story. The folklore of how it started is that there was a day that people decorated the graves of their relatives. Then there was the civil war and they decorated the graves of the tUnion soldiers. Then the women of the towns also decorated the graves of the Confederate Soldiers. mg

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 29 May 12 - 12:45 AM

Arkie, I missed your post... I just saw Alan Jabbour at a festival near Los Angeles, and he mentioned that he and his wife were doing a project on Civil War cemeteries. (He's such a nice person! I was lucky enough to host him in Tucson for a few days about 10 years ago, and he remembered the visit well.)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Donuel
Date: 29 May 12 - 09:53 AM

Funny you should mention it. I have that fact on a banner I put on the corner to celebrate Memorial day.

I have many racists on my street that need an education.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 12 - 10:18 AM

Southern women decorating the graves of Confederate Soldiers (and the long tradition of southerners desecrating the graves of Union soldiers) had nothing to do with the national Decoration Day cum Memorial Day holiday - which was why a seperate Confederate Memorial Day on a different date was established to honor those who fought for slavery.

Confederate Decoration/Memorial Day is still celebrated annually in Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennesee(home of that great southern patriot Nathan Bedford Forrest), South Carolina ("Birthplace of Secession")and a few others.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Highlandman
Date: 29 May 12 - 10:48 AM

"There was a right side and a wrong side in the late war..."
And of course the right side won. Funny how this is always the case, i'n't it?

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 12 - 12:24 PM

What's REALLY funny, Highland, is how many people quote this bit of sophistry, pretending its a universal truth and excuse for moral relativism.

Did you read Douglass'entire address, above, or are you merely advocating the rightness of slavery and white supremecism?

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Highlandman
Date: 29 May 12 - 01:26 PM

Wow, Greg, I didn't know I meant all that stuff. I guess since I don't agree with you I must be guilty of every heinous implication you can stretch to from it. Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 12 - 01:49 PM

Well, Highland, instead of jumping salty, why not simply tell us what you in fact DO mean? From the doggerel you've quoted & what you've said so far, I don't think anyone can tell if they agree with you or not!

PS: did you read Douglass' address, or no, before you condemn it as "history written by the victors"?)

Thanx-

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Highlandman
Date: 29 May 12 - 03:00 PM

First of all, Gr, I don't see where I condemned Mr. Douglass' address as "history written by the victors." Are you sure, with your astute powers of observation, that I actually said anything at all about the address itself? Or could it be that my post was commentary on a different idea?

Further, you assert that I have quoted "doggerel" and a "bit of sophistry." I'm not sure how to address that assertion, seeing that the only quotation I made above was from your excerpt of Mr. Douglass.
Given that you probably were referring to the concept of victor-written history, however, you then suppose from my brief comment that I am holding this out as "a universal truth and excuse for moral relativism," a logical leap of which I can only stand in awe.

There are many things, Gr, upon which you and most of the world will not be able to judge whether you agree with me, simply because I have not told you. It may be that you are one of those folks who are compelled to sort people into a dichotomy of "agree with me on my pet topic(s)" and "other." I feel no corresponding compulsion to help you in this. I said what I intended to say.

Analyze my original statement, then.
"There was a right side and a wrong side in the late war..."
And of course the right side won. Funny how this is always the case, i'n't it?
It's tricky analyzing sarcasm; let's say that my comment just indicates I have an issue with the quoted assertion and leave it at that. What issue could that be? From your Square of Opposition you can construct several opposites to the quote. That there were two right sides, or that there were two wrong sides, or, elliptically, that the supposed right side and wrong side were reversed. The latter statement is what you seem to have leapt to, unjustifiably.

Since you insist on my making a clear statement, here it is. I don't hold that there were necessarily any "right sides" in the Late Unpleasantness. But 600,000 plus deaths are hard to comprehend without somebody being "wrong," and it is desperately important to most people that that somebody not be "us." That is the thinking that is at the core of war, when you come to it.

In closing be assured that I did in fact follow the link and read Mr. Douglass' address. So, by your logic, since I did read the address, I can rest easy that I am not guilty of the terrible things on the other side of the "or," as you presented it. What a relief.

-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: open mike
Date: 29 May 12 - 03:58 PM

Alan Jabbour is an interesting fellow..here is his home page.
http://www.alanjabbour.com/ He was in the Hollow Rock String Band.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 May 12 - 08:35 PM

There are many things, Gr, upon which you and most of the world will not be able to judge whether you agree with me, simply because I have not told you. {emphasis mine}

Well then, Gl, since you're the one that complained thatI was slagging you off because I didn't agree with you, why don't you just piss off?

That'll be a relief indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: The origins of U.S. Memorial Day
From: Arkie
Date: 29 May 12 - 11:49 PM

Alan is indeed and interesting fellow and a fine person as well. When he was in Arkansas, I took him to several cemeteries in the area including the one where Jimmy Driftwood's parents are buried.

Here is a link to his page about the Decoration Day book.

Jabbour