Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 29 Jan 18 - 11:10 PM

So glad to set the record straight and so many thanks for all you have done!
best- Julia

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Jim Douglas
Date: 29 Jan 18 - 03:49 PM

A small correction, if I may (while honking my own horn). The mss. was actually discovered by me in the Barry Collection at Harvard a few decades ago. There were 16 boxes, I recall, of uncatalogued material and scattered about were portions of the unpublished manuscript. I pieced them together and sent a copy to Sandy Ives to see if the Folklife Center at the Univ. of Me at Orono might be interested in publishing it. He declined, so I then sent it to the American Folklore Society. They sent it to Sandy (again) for his opinion and he apparently passed on it again. And there it sat until Pauleena MacDougall, God bless her, expressed an interest. She gives me a nice acknowledgement in the foreword.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:41 AM

Hmm, possibly. Maybe V.A.T. (are books vat-able?) rather than duty. Any H.M. customs officers out there?

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM

Eckshually, books for resale might be considerred separately in the bureaucratic mind(?).

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jun 12 - 07:19 AM

As I understand it, there is no import duty on books into Britain. As a caveat, it was a few months ago I looked and the relevant website (which sadly I can't remember but I would advise satisfy yourselves anyway) implied 'books for reading'... are there others?

Apart from which, if the package has a value of under 18 GB pounds it would probably not be considered anyway.

The real pain is the charges applied by Royal Mail (or other parcel deliveres e.g. Fedex) if they have to collect any duty.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 01:46 PM

The first vol included several songs from just across the border in New Brunswick. I'd be interested to see if there are more in vol 2.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Pauleena MacDougall
Date: 26 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM

No overlap with Minstrelsy from Maine.
The Maine folklife Center has complete copies of the Bulletin of the Northeast Folk Song society and we have all of Fannie Eckstorm's papers in the University library. There was a lot of discussion about Barbara Allen in letters between Barry and Eckstorm. Some letters are in Maine University library, others in the Barry Collection at Houghton. Anyone interested in conducting research on this please contact me at [e-mail].
Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 06:07 PM

How much overlap is there on the Eckstrom & Hyde Minstrelsy of Maine?

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: maeve
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:48 PM

Julia- I don't know, but you might talk to Gordon/Timberhead.

When's your ballad sing?

Maeve

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:40 PM

Any ideas for distribution gratefully recieved

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 03:37 PM

Congratulations on the publication of this book.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,London Pete
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 04:49 AM

Thanks for this information. Fascinating stuff! There is a Villiers Street in central London, next to Charing Cross Station. I had always assumed that it was named after some Lord or Duke. But suppose that it was named after Barbara Villiers. Could we then have the street renamed "Barbara Allen Street"? Just an idea.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:01 PM

Charlie- Congrats yerself!

Richie- the only comments made about origin (in BBM-1) are as follows
from page 200
" Was Barbara Allen a real person? We feel sure of it. No other woman in balladry stands out so "in the roud" with incident, motive and action all so consistently sequent. If she was not an actual person, then it took genius to invent her".

Tami- preference for date and time of ballad party?

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: ranger1
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:56 PM

Cool beans! I know what I'm doing next paycheck!

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: Richie
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM

Hi,

Without creating too much tread drift, here are two opinions on the Barry/Eckstorm theory about Barbara Allen:

Norm Cohen: It has been argued that the January 2 reference was not to the traditional ballad: in a head note to the ballad, editor Belden wrote, Mrs. [Fannie Hardy] Eckstorm in a letter written in 1940 informed me that she and [Phillips] Barry had satisfied themselves, before Barry's death, that as sung by Mrs. Knipp to the delight of Samuel Pepys in 1666 it was not a stage song at all but a libel on Barbara Villiers and her relations with Charles II; but so far as I know the details of their argument have never been published. [68]

The absence of said details in this case rather reminds one of mathematician Fermat's handwritten marginal comment in his copy of a number theory textbook that he had discovered a marvelous proof of the theorem under discussion, but the margin was too narrow to contain it. Without any record of Eckstorm and Barry's evidence (and contrariwise the suggestive evidence in the two correspondents' use of ballad characters as noms-de-plume), we must reluctantly consign their comments to the dustbin of dubious demonstrations and assume that Pepys indeed heard the ballad that we know by that name.

Ballad Index: Phillips Barry speculates that this is based on the lives of Barbara Villiers and King Charles II. This is characteristic of Barry: Clever but completely unconvincing. - RBW

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:45 PM

For anyone who fancies chancing their arm with British Customs, I've just checked the current Canada-Sterling exchange rate. Turns out twenty five Canadian dollars = £15.76p.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:37 PM

Hi Julia,

Book importation and distribution is not an area I'm familiar with I'm afraid. However, Dick Greenhaus of Camsco (mentioned above) did a wonderful deal a few years ago, which enabled British based ballad buffs to buy Bronson's Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads from an importer (I think) at a very affordable price. I can't remember the details, but I do remember the shock of realising I could actually afford a set of Bronson without having to auction off the family silver.

If you're in touch with Alison, do give her my regards. And while I think on, her book on the Stewarts of Fetterangus, Up Yon Wide and Lonely Glen, is listed on Amazon as due for publication on July 1st.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,karen k
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 12:16 PM

Julia,

This is great. Thanks for the notice. I have the first one and will order this new one right away.

karen kobela

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 10:25 AM

To Fred M. - Any suggestions you might have for getting it across the water would be most welcome- perhaps a distributor of this kind of material. I'll ask some other ballad friends as well- Alison MacMorland may have some ideas.

Re: Barbara Allen does not appear as one of the ballads, but (my) Fred remembers seeing it in the appendix . In the previous volume (British Ballads from Maine published in 1929, there is a whole discussion of the song starting page 195. The older book is out of print and hard to find, but perhaps you could get it through inter-library loan. I'm leaning on the U of Maine to reprint it. They need to see sufficient interest before they pursue the idea.

Here's a list of the songs in the new book- there are multiple versions of most of the songs

Laird o' Kelsie-O
Fair Maid on the Shore
The Bold Fisherman
Fair Molly Bawn
Willie Leonard
Sons of North Britain
Young But Growing
Johb o' German
William Taylor
Reynardine
The Lion's Den
Lovely Susan
Lexington Miller
The Banks of Old Bardine
Young Edwin in the Lowlands
The Green Bed
The Lady in the West
Lovely Jimmy
Fair Betsy
The Charming Footboy
The Damsel's Tragedy
John Glengyle
The Constant Farmer's Son
The Boatswain's Honest Wife
Kate and Her Horns
Father Grumble
Te Factor's Garland

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,London Pete.
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:48 AM

Can anyone please tell me what "the Barry/Eckstorm theory about Barbara Allen" is, exactly. It's something I have not come across before.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: Richie
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 09:18 AM

Hi,

Thanks for letting us know. I'll get the book at some point- please feel free to add versions to the thread on US Version of Child ballads.

I'm curious if this sheds any light on the Barry/Eckstorm theory about Barbara Allen- since I'm working on Barbara Allen now.

There's probably more material in the Bulletin of the Folk-Song Society of the Northeast. I'd like to find out where to get complete copies of the Bulletin's.

TY

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:26 AM

Excellent, and congratulations for bringing this manuscript back to the light.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: maeve
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 07:09 AM

Julia- Yes, please!

Fred- Perhaps our own Dick Greenhaus ([e-mail])could help you?

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 06:10 AM

That's wonderful news, and at $25-00 it sounds eminently affordable. The problem for anyone in Britain, is the usual one of having to pay an arm and a leg in import duty. Are there any plans to make it available over here?

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:17 PM

Hi Maeve- There are some wonderful songs here. I'm thinking it would be fun to have a "ballad sing" to try them out sometime soon

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 08:14 PM

Thanks, Julia. That's wonderful news. Congratulations to Pauleena and Fred for their accomplishments.

Maeve...just up the road, kind of.

Subject: RE: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 07:09 PM

This got cut off the last message

207 581-1891 or: www.umaine.edu/folklife

cheers- Julia

Subject: Origins: New Book of Maine Ballads released
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 07:06 PM

It's here! The second volume of British Ballads from Maine, missing for 80 years has been found and published by the University of Maine. This is a volume of additional Child ballads and broadsides collected in the 1920's. Pauleena MacDougall, director of the Maine Folklife Center in Orono was researching one of the collectors, Fannie Hardy Eckstorm, and found the missing manuscript. Fred Gosbee, my partner helped edit, transcribe and record the melodies and the book includes a CD of tunes.

British Ballads from Maine Vol. II
Philips Barry, Fannie Hardy Eckstorm, Mary Winslow Smyth

ISBN: 978-0-943197-00-5 (Northeast Folklore, XLIV) 346 pages, includes CD with tunes: $25.00
Order from: Maine Folklife Center, 5773 South Stevens Hall UM Orono, ME 04469

Great Stuff!! -Julia Lane