BS: ******* Microsoft

Subject: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:07 AM

About 15 minutes into high concentration work in excel, updating
the operating guidelines for a spreadsheet Bill ****** Gates rubbish system decides to reboot the PC, Without any ******* notice.

Does it bother to create a recovery file? Does it ****.

I usually save work after completing chunks. DOES GATES expect me to save work after typing every ******* line?

Doesn't the ******** think I have nothing better to do????

Please feel free to substitute the *s for your own expletives!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:11 AM

The system does regularly create autorecover files but these are nowhere to be seen in the directory I am working in.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:16 AM

I know this may be an unpopular thing to say, but I have far fewer problems with Microsoft products, than I have with others.

Get in the habit of hitting [CTRL-S] often when you're doing complicated stuff, and you'll be a lot happier.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:22 AM

It doesn't deem to even bother with saving the autorecover files it creates. I just checked the autorecover directory.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:32 AM

The guidelines I typed before are easy to retype. Of course Windows decided to reboot mid sentence of the line which involved the complex thinking. How can I save in excel mid cell update, unless I type a phrase, enter, save, then go back to the cell, add anoth few words, save, etc etc.

Stressed of Acton

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 06:15 AM

www = W3
I think you should move to another post code.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 06:49 AM

Very interesting thread. I had assumed the whole world was now running on Mac OSX, but there you..

Trust folkies to rely on last century's technology!

(Are Microsoft still a company? What do they do these days? )

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:50 AM

I was working on a client's computer!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:52 AM

I may be scathing about Mickeysoft, but it's a s nothing compared to how I feel about bloody AppleMac.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Charmion
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:39 AM

Sounds like a computer on the brink of failure -- software in need of update, or perhaps a memory issue.

Macs and Windows computers are equally vulnerable to these problems.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:31 AM

Some of us still use old technology because we are too stupid and/or too poor to be able to try out new stuff.

I've got a problem with XP at the moment, one of the Windows updates which should run automatically keeps failing. It's no. KB2686509, and I've tried the Microsoft 'Fix-It', but that doesn't work either.

It seems that the update only works on computers which had XP from new, they just forgot about machines which may have upgraded from something even older. I've found three possible fixes on-line, but first you have to figure out which problem you've got before you know which fix to try, and as I said, I'm a bit techno-stupid.

So I'm not too impressed with Microsoft at the moment either.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:39 AM

I wish had never bought a friggin computer.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:26 AM

Slight thread creep...

I've taken over as webmaster of a website... my two predecessors both used Micro$haft web design programmes... the first was FrontPage, and the second was Expression Web... the reason for the change of programmes was simply that Frontpage was no longer available.

Anyway, the nett result is web pages riddled with redundant code, and the CSS stylesheets embedded in every page instead of being a separate file with a pointer to tell all the pages (around seventy of them) where to find it.

Redundant code? Things like paragraph tags and font tags with no text, all the stuff that's hidden from view and isn't deleted when the text it related to has been deleted. Fortunately I'm used to working in raw HTML...

It's taken me a while, using a text editor, to plod through and clean up the pages, but when you consider the home page has gone from around 164k down to 89k, the effort has been worthwhile.

Needless to say, I won't be using a Micro$haft programme to maintain the site in the future!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:47 AM

Joe, you say ...I have far fewer problems with Microsoft products, than I have with others...

You have obviously not used Linux.

When I was working for Max we had to reboot the Windows server at least three times a day to keep it running. We would reboot the Linux server about once a month 'cos it seemed like a good idea.

We had a power outage the other day and Windows in its wisdom decided to rearrange all of the carefully positioned shortcuts on my desktop. I have no clue as to where they got the new positions from.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:09 PM

I had a Microsoft moment today.

My roofer sent me the quote in a docx file. I was not, back when I received it, able to open it in the versions of Word I have, in XP. I managed to do it in OpenOffice. Today I needed to tell the insurance company about the roofing material and found that it was in the other computer I have that I had opened it, and the version of OpenOffice on this machine needed to know which filter to use, and could not open it. I'm not convinced its good business for a company to produce stuff which demands the user upgrade. (I suggested to the roofer company that they sent the stuff out in pdf format.)

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:30 PM

I always send quotes out in PDF, and use RTF for stuff that the recipient may need to edit... DOCX is very unfriendly!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:36 PM

So far, OS X has proved itself far far more robust and user-friendly than any MS op system. Primarily, I guess, because they had the courage to leap over to a Unix based OS. But there are an awful lot of people earning a lot of money by "improving" the OS and complexity and concomitant problems thereto appertaining are more evident today than they were a year ago.

I still suggest getting a Mac. Pay no attention to the angry Scot in the corner. Someone put whiskey in his coffee.


A

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: treewind
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:38 PM

I now regularly open .Docx, .xlsx and .pptx files in libreoffice (open office is so last year!) where any local available versions of ms office wouldn't be able to.
And the linux server at work only gets rebooted when it needs hardware changed.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 12:39 PM

The most common reason for an "unexpected reboot" is for installation of updates. You can change how updates are downloaded and installed, so that the installation (and the reboot, when needed) happens only when you explicitly say it's okay. The most common setting is to allow the installation whenever the computer is idle, and in this case you will get a notice that a reboot is coming, with the option to order a delay. Unfortunately the notice isn't "blatant" and sometimes it's not noticed.

My experience with Autosave is that it's "too good" and more often makes me dump unwanted backups than the rare cases where it recovers something helpful, but it would be more likely to get a useful result if you're having "other problems" resulting in ABENDs. Depending on what Office version you're using, autosave settings may be in Excel, but in most recent versions the settings in WORD are applied to all Office programs, including Excel. You may need to look in both. You may be able to reset the frequency, but it's a trade-off between frequent autosaves and useful recoveries. (Most people won't see the autosaves, but I have a few files that take 10 seconds or more to save, and you can't do your own save while an autosave is running - and in some versions you can't change the file you're working on while the autosave is running.)

No problems internal to a program should cause the computer to reboot (at least problems that have been commonly reported). A program error usually just causes the program to quit. A reboot of the computer would indicate an update, or an OS problem.

You can look at the updates that have been installed on your computer, to see if something was added at about the time when your unexpected reboot(s) happened. The most recent versions make it easy, but with older OS versions it may be simpler to just go to the Windows Update site where you should find a button there to "view updates." (But some non-Microsft updates may not be shown.)

If you can't link the reboot to a program change (update or new program installation), it's likely that you have an "aging hardware" problem or corrupted system files, with the less likely (probably remote) possibility of malware on your computer.

Also note that Microsoft isn't the only likely to be doing things to your computer that can cause a reboot. A couple of recent Adobe Reader updates, and a separate Adobe Flash update, both demanded reboots on my machine (Both of these programs could themselves be called malware, but I should be polite about them so as not to scare the public(?).)

Bernard sings to the choir about Microsoft (and other) website/page design programs. It's a (semi-)skilled trade, and maybe a license should be required, but the cookbooks are generally a bit lacking. The effort to put up a clean site is commendable.

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 02:17 PM

As good a place to put it as any:

MICROSOFT SAYS REMOVE THE VISTA/WIN7 SIDEBAR AND GADGETS.

The "sidebar" appeared with Vista, and was immediately "closed" by those who wanted a computer, but may be remembered by those who think a pinball machine is the ultimate entertainement.

UNfortunately, whether you use it or not, it's still on your computer.

Microsoft has conceded it was a "bad idea" and is now recommending that ALL VISTA AND WINDOWS 7 USERS should DISABLE it. (Immediately is mentioned.)

SecurityNewsDaily

Hey, Windows Vista lovers! Microsoft has some bad, or possibly good, news.

It's recommending that all users disable the Windows Sidebar and Gadgets — immediately.

"Disabling the Windows Sidebar and Gadgets can help protect customers from vulnerabilities that involve the execution of arbitrary code by the Windows Sidebar when running insecure Gadgets," states a security advisory released July 10 by Microsoft.

"In addition, Gadgets installed from untrusted sources can harm your computer and can access your computer's files, show you objectionable content, or change their behavior at any time."

Fidget, widget, gadget

Gadgets are those little mini-applications, resembling animated icons, that hang around the desktop to tell you the time, weather, news headlines and so on. (Other software makers, including Apple and Yahoo!, call them "widgets.")

Gadgets, and the Windows Sidebar they live in, first appeared in 2007 as a default setting in Vista. Many users hated them, complained that they took up too many computer resources and turned them off immediately.

Windows 7 has Gadgets built in as well, but they're turned off by default. Instead of being in a sidebar pinned to the right edge of the screen, Gadgets are in a floating window that can be placed anywhere on the desktop.

If you're running Windows 7 and really want to see them, right-click on your desktop and select "Gadgets."

But Microsoft now wishes you really wouldn't. Its security advisory points to a download page that contains a tool users can run to disable Gadgets and, in Vista, the Sidebar.

The page where Microsoft used to host additional Gadgets for download now states, "The Windows website no longer hosts the gadget gallery."

Pre-emptive execution

Graham Cluley of the British security firm Sophos thinks Microsoft's sudden decision to kill a five-year-old piece of software has to do with a presentation, entitled "We Have You by the Gadgets," scheduled for the Black Hat security conference later this month in Las Vegas.

"We will be talking about the Windows Gadget platform and what the nastiness that can be done with it," state the presenters in less-than-perfect English on the Black Hat website. "We will be talking about our research into creating malicious gadgets, misappropriating legitimate gadgets and the sorts of flaws we have found in published gadgets."

Presumably, the presenters will demonstrate how easy it is to create Trojan-horse malware in the form of gadgets.

It's likely that the problem lies with third-party gadgets, not Microsoft's own, but Cluley found it noteworthy that Microsoft isn't even trying to fix the problem.

"Microsoft hasn't issued a security patch to fix the vulnerability," he wrote on Sophos' Naked Security blog. "They're suggesting you completely nuke your Windows Sidebar and Gadgets."

Gadgets have not yet appeared in the preview versions of Windows 8, due this fall, and likely never will.

© 2012 SecurityNewsDaily,

Refs:

Microsoft Security Advisory: Vulnerabilities in Gadgets could allow remote code execution

Blackhat Announcement

john

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 03:17 PM

I've used Linux, too, Bert. Trouble with Linux is that it's like a different language. I have to take the time to learn everything, since I don't have the basic logic down.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 05:25 PM

Anyone who has Word can download the filters necessary to open and read .doc, .docx, .docm, .dotx, .dotm. They're free.

Anyone who has a later version of Word that can produce all of the above also can very easily save their file as a .doc that older Word versions can read as is.

Maybe the roofer that Penny S found is computer illiterate because (s)he spends all time and effort making good roofs, or maybe (s)he's forced to hire a wife/husband's illiterate cousin for a secretary. There's NO EXCUSE for any business to send anything to a customer - or potential customer - in a form/format they haven't confirmed is acceptable to the recipient. But of course if no one asks them to re-send in a proper format they can keep being handicapped by their poor communication skills.

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:27 PM

I used to have a Berkeley Unix computer, and then a Sun with its proprietary Unix (I forget its name). Now, I have a PC with Windows XP. That is because my personal computer guru, who is my best buddy, set it up for me, and he is not willing to go thru the toils of setting up & maintaining Linux, which is what I would like to have on ideological grounds. The ideal solution would be to have a Linux & Emacs expert enslaved to me, preferably by insatiable lust. In the meantime, I have something called Cygwin that allows me to pretend, a lot of the time, that I am running some kind of Unix.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Jul 12 - 04:19 AM

Joe_F -

You do know that you can download a copy of any of a few Unix versions and burn one of them to a CD (or DVD) and if you put the disk in and reboot the computer it will be running Unix. Add an external USB hard drive (formatted however is best for Unix) for a place to put what you do with it, and when you take the disk out and disconnect the USB drive your current guru won't even know you've been cheating on him(/her?).

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 Jul 12 - 08:28 PM

John: It's not a matter of "cheating". It's that I don't know how to make all the stuff I need work under Linux -- Microsoft Word, or reasonable facsimile thereof, for business purposes; Conkeror; Gnu Emacs; etc. I have lost touch with the computer world; these days, when I read a newsgroup, I hardly understand anything. I am getting stupider, and operating systems are getting more complicated. I can just barely deal with small problems. When I had the Sun 3, I could look things up in the manuals & do them; but that was 1986.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 02:02 AM

Joe F -

I have to disagree with one small item in your last post:

I am getting stupider, and operating systems are getting more complicated

My personal feeling is that its the operating systems and programs that are getting STUPIDER, making it impossible for even the most clever and knowledgeable users to accomplish much with them.

I used Microsoft Office when it was still a DOS program, and have used nearly every version that's come out. Office 2007 is the first version I've seen with which it's nearly impossible for me to accomplish anything resembling efficient or productive work, and what I've seen of the later versions suggest that they are pretty much also a toy for illiterates. My current Word 2007 has 9 separate menu bars, each with 70 or more choices, NONE OF WHICH go directly to anything useful. Things previously done with three clicks now take up to 11, to reach half a menu with anything worth executing.

I use Adobe's Photoshop Elements a lot, but despite the fact that I have to run it as Administrator I use version 2. It does what I expect in ways that more than compensate for the minor inconvenience of arguing with my OS (Win7) about whether I'll be allowed to run it. I've purchased and tried to use both version 9 and version 10, and they're impossible to use effectively. In this case, a number of features I would use have been merely hidden - like in Office, where it takes ten clicks to do what was two - but several critical features have been removed - apparently because the "ran out of buttons" to clutter the work space with.

Recent generations of what once were the most useful programs can only be described as "degenerate."

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 06:34 AM

My first experience with docx cost a client more than £20,000. Before their computers all had windows xp, including the computer I usually work on. I was brought in at very short notice to help with a funding application with a same day deadline, and I went to the office where the project operated from so I could talk to the workers face to face. And I was able to use their brand new pcs which had Vista and the then latest version of Office which I was using for the first time.

Nobody told me that the local authority which still had the old version of windows would not be able to open the file. - also the council system did not allow individual users to download the file conversion patches.

Did the Save command give a warning message to say that the council would not be able to open docx files and therefore they should be saved in 2003-07 format?

Did Microsoft bother to write to me to let me know that if any of my clients use Vista and they want to send files to anyone with the old version then save as word document would not work?

Am I expected to know the compatibility issues of every piece of software? My work is budgeting and management accounting, and stats management, not IT!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 06:02 PM

Eggcisely!!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 15 Jul 12 - 06:08 PM

John - if you can remember the MS Word keyboard shortcuts, the 'features' are pretty much still there - even though the menu may be missing. As is usual with Microsoft, they rarely remove any redundant code!!

For example, converting text to a table (Alt X), or a table to text (Alt B)...

Maybe someone could compile a list...?!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 06:44 AM

Bernard -

The obfuscation of the Table menu is one of "new Word" tragedies.

The icon that (eventually) takes you to "convert text to table" is on one main toolbar, and the the icon to (eventually) get to "convert table to text" is at the opposite end of a different main tab.

Additionally, if you just look for table, all you get is an "array" of identical icons (I think there are 100 of them) that show a number of rows and columns for the one you hover on, but - - - -

ONLY IDIOTS MAKE TABLES THAT WAY.

It's exceedingly cumbersome to "make a table" and then step through it to fill in the boxes. Anyone with any experience at all just types tab-separated lines of data, and when the data's all there you highlight it all and Alt-A, V, X to make it into a table. (And Alt-A, V, A converts a table back to tab-separated text.)

Similar obfuscation appears in the difference between "sorting ON a column" and the very useful ability to do a "sort OF a column."

Alt-A is one of my favorites. I also use Ctl-F9, and Ctl-Shift-F9 a whole lot. The simple keyboard entry Ctl-F9,= gives you a calculator that's immensely more powerful than the kiddie toy Microsoft calls "the calculator."

You need to be careful about Alt-X though, since if the cursor's adjacent to a text character when you key Alt-X it changes the character to it's HEX character number (or toggles the HEX number you type to the character it represents).

I don't have any trouble remembering that "F9, DATE" inserts the current date, but usually have to check my old notes to remember that it's "DATE \@ "d MMMM yyyy" to make it say "16 July 2012" and "DATE \@ dddd" to get "Monday" - - and "F9,TIME \@ HH:mm" to make it say 05:45.

The difficulty is that I can't see any way that someone new to office operations could ever learn how to use the programs efficiently, if they started with the new idiotized versions. It took a little effort with the older versions, but really wasn't all that difficult. The only thing in the Help files for the new ones is "would you like to go to the web and ask some idiot who knows less than you already know."

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 08:08 AM

Quite so, quite so...

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jul 12 - 10:09 PM

I probably put it in the wrong thread, and it should have been here instead, but the latter half of my post in the "Ubuntu/Windows" thread would fit here:

/thread.cfm?threadid=145919&messages=12#3377395 - a single post, local link.

Extracts:

One of the "advantages" claimed for NTFS by Microsoft is that the "Boot Sectors" and "File Control Blocks" are "moveable" so that partitions can be resized or moved on the physical hard drive, but one has to dig into the details to learn that this capability HAS NEVER BEEN IMPLEMENTED in Windows ...

... the "official information" that 64-bit systems can use squidzillions of terrorbytes of RAM (and this is good for you). Unfortunately the BIOS and the number of RAM slots installed in your computer limit the amount of RAM that YOU CAN USE, and "cheap desktops" often can't install more than 2GB (some may be even lower), and even the better reasonably priced ones can't install more than 8 GB. ... I got frequent "insufficient memory" warnings at 6 GB, although they've mostly gone away at 8 GB (the max installable on my current desktop ...

... I crash Windows Explorer about twice per day recently ("Windows Explorer has encountered an error and will be shut down.") I also get 20 - 30 incidents daily where Win Explorer fails to show files that are present in a folder, or shows the files "somewhere else" when I select a new folder for display (and sends the file I'm moving to the "somewhere else" when it should go in the new folder I've selected). I've found about 800 reports of the same problems in "Microsoft social networks" where Microsoft claims I should go for help, but it's obvious that nobody at Microsoft knows how to fix it.

(add "or cares if it works" to the last one.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:44 AM

Joe Offer, X Windows is pretty similar to Windows. The advantage of Unix is that it comes with a couple of programming languages called shells. Windows does have an upgraded DOS which does much the same thing but it is difficult to find any documentation for it.

I've still not figured out why Windows lets me arrange the shortcuts on my desktop and then goes and changes my arrangement. The only reason that makes any sense is that they are arrogant shitheads.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 01:50 AM

Bert -

The real reason for all the "new features" in Windows, and in Microsoft programs in general is that they were displeased with the reception for Vista, so they fired everyone associated with the program (documented if you want to look for it). Having no one left with actual computer/programming skills, they recruited a bunch of "test subjects," with one criterion for selection being "total lack of knowledge of anything related to computers and how they are used." They then "exposed" these test subjects to "programs" and watched what they did with the "programs."

Since they had no prior knowledge of much of anything, the test subjects didn't actually do much of anything, but the Microsoft observers decided that anything they did do must be important, so they modified the programs to provide a separate button (icon) for each click (made largely at random) by their "test subjects."

This is the full and complete description of how Office 2007 (and later Office 2010) were "improved" over prior (useful, but who cares) versions.

Since the test subjects who "pushed the most buttons" have now been promoted to the top positions in Microsoft Product Development divisions, it has now become apparent that their participation in the earlier test programs prevented their normal adolescent development (although a few pre-pubescents remain) and the entire staff at Microsoft is now entirely immersed in the attempt to figure out "what's an iPad," so no further development of "anything Microsoft" - or at least anything useful - should be expected in the near term. Since Microsoft has now deployed their entire suite of programs in a form suitable only for pre-pubescent and adolescent "key-peckers" the advanced age of their senior staff, a few of whom have now rached the advanced age to be distracted by subjects of "what's this dating thing," the future prospects for the corporation are rather bleak.

I predict a take-over offer from "Toys are US" in the near future.

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 07:44 AM

"I predict a take-over offer from "Toys are US" in the near future."

Funny... I though they had too much market awareness to embark on such a risky strategy - owning Micro$haft would really drag their image down!!


Regarding Micro$haft and 'programming', their insistence on using 'straight line' programming and seemingly being incapable of removing redundant code (okay, I accept that removing redundant code in straight line programming can be problematic, but not insurmountable). Nett result is 'bloatware' - programmes that are far bigger than they need to be and require increasingly more RAM to run them.

Years ago, on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum, I used to use a wordprocessor called 'Tasword'. The computer had 48k RAM, which was enough to run the machine code with room for a fairly large document with many of the features you'd expect from a modern wordprocessor. The software company, Tasman, worked within the limits of the machine and could teach Micro$haft a thing or two about tidy programming!

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 09:57 AM

Bernard -

One publisher of computer books that keeps sending me email ads, in a recent ad cited new (or in process) books on 24 separate "programming languages" that are "the one's you need to learn right now." There were perhaps a dozen for which I could vaguely guess what they might be used for, but the rest are a total mystery, and are quite welcome to remain as such for me.

My reading of the proliferation of "languages" is that the current generation are unwilling to use ONE ** of the perfectly adequate existing languages, and expect someone to come up with a "new language" to make each new task "easier."

** Actually I can think of three program types that might benefit from choosing separate language types but two dozen is ridiculous.

And as for "bloat," I too remember when 30 MB hard drives began to get crowded enough to think about having two of them. About a year ago one of the computer mag editors wrote a piece about "what could anyone possibly do with a Terabyte hard drive" in which he asserted that "everything a person could possibly produce in a lifetime would fit on one that size."

I'm currently running 3 TB in each of two desktops, with a .5T (500 GB) external permanently connected to one, and backups of data only on 3 external 1 TB drives connected only on "backup days." And ALL of my current drives are at least 80% full. And I have NO video on any of them, and only a half dozen short .mid files. (I'll add two more 1 TB externals when I get my backups organized a little better.)

EVERY FILE TYPE I HAVE is at least 30 times the size of the same "types" of files I was using "x-time ago" within memory. A few .pdf individual files I have now won't fit on a CD, and a couple of .doc files are pretty close. (And and I write such short, compact, brief stuff ... (?) ... I should stop being so terse.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:10 PM

;o)

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:19 PM

Ah yes... the heady days of the Seagate Type 47... 40Mb, as I recall... and so quiet...!!! You had to have a noisy PSU fan to drown the buggers out!

My first PC (a 12Hz XT made by Opus) had a 30Mb miniscribe RLL drive, which seemed enormous! Then it started groaning at the seams... the first PC I built, a 486sx25, had a 99Mb drive... again, far bigger than my wildest dreams!

These days I keep the size of a PC drive down to around 200Gb and use external drives, NAS mostly, for data... that way, when (not 'if'!) they go wrong it's not too much trouble to clone a new one from the backup.

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:57 PM

Backup is a real problem. Even with the plentiful supply of "backup" programs and utilities available, there are NONE that actually tell you what they do, and with most of them you can't tell what they did even after you run them.

And the backup utiltities included in Windows are not something I can trust, since I've made a "backup" with every version I've had, but the three times I needed to restore NONE OF THEM WORKED. Microsoft even admitted that the Win95, Win98, and WinXP backups "frequently" didn't make a restorable backup.

Like the April Fools ad several years ago for the "write only drive" with unlimited capacity, or the alternative to the "WORM" (Write Once Read Many) their backups are called "WORNs" (Write Once Read Never).

The problem is that the only way you can verify a backup is to restore from it - and who wants to do that when things are working?

John

Subject: RE: BS: ******* Microsoft
From: Joe_F
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 02:49 PM

John: As I mentioned above, if you have Cygwin, you can sort of pretend you have a Unix machine. Then good old-fashioned tar works fine. Every evening I use it to back up all my personal & business files on a thumb drive, and in the morning I put it in my pocket.